Local Bus Services

Chloe Smith Excerpts

Wednesday 5th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Chloe Smith (Norwich North) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), alongside whom I have the pleasure of serving on the Select Committee on Transport—a very important subject. Despite being a relatively recent addition to her Committee, I was present for much of the inquiry she outlined and found it highly significant.

I would like, if I may, to begin my comments with a reflection on a detailed area that the hon. Lady summarised but perhaps did not have time to go into—the sections of society that can and do use passenger transport, and value it very deeply. As she rightly said, as did my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State, buses do matter, and I will set out some of the groups for whom they matter most. The first is older people, because many elderly people are unable to drive. Then there are younger people, who, as we heard in the Committee, make significantly fewer car journeys than before, with a 10% drop, over the past decade and a bit, in the number of 17 to 20-year-olds holding a driving licence. Passenger transport is essential for unemployed people because it allows them to sign on at a jobcentre and then look for work. That is particularly relevant to cities and counties like mine, Norwich and Norfolk, where work may be in a city amid a rural area.

[Kerry McCarthy]

Is the hon. Lady aware that when bus services are as unreliable as they are in places such as Bristol, there is an increasing problem in that people seeking work are being sanctioned by jobcentres because they cannot make it to their appointments on time? If they are 20 minutes late, through no fault of their own, they can find that they are losing a couple of weeks’ money and have absolutely nothing to live on.

[Chloe Smith]

I shall respond to that intervention, which is of course on a topic unrelated to the motion, by referring to a very good scheme that operates in Norfolk called Kickstart, which is open particularly to young people. For the price of perhaps only a few bus tickets—when one does the sums—it offers a very affordable moped. Buses are not necessarily the only way for jobseekers to get to where they need to go. I pay tribute to the Kickstart project and what it does to help square this circle.

The Committee heard about two more groups, the first of which is people who are not necessarily unemployed but have low incomes, and may well be more dependent than others on bus travel. Finally, and importantly, there are disabled people. Passenger transport allows disabled people to access not only employment but community and family life, and the entire range of things that one would like them to be able to do. The Campaign For Better Transport told us that disabled people use buses about 20% more frequently than the non-disabled population..

I want to mention a couple of cases that have recently been raised with me by disabled constituents, both of which involved complaints about a particular bus company and what was perceived to be unfair treatment of disabled passengers. In one case, the disabled passenger himself wrote to me; in the other, it was somebody who described what they had seen. There is a common thread between the two. I would like to draw the House’s attention to a tension within the law relating to disabled passengers. It relates to the shared space on buses for both wheelchair users and buggies, a subject well known to everyone in the House. In one case, the bus driver failed to ask a pushchair user to make space for a wheelchair user. After looking into the regulations that apply to the bus company and investigating the case with the Department for Transport, it has become clear that the bus company ought to do the right thing.

We are all familiar with the Equality Act 2010, which rightly makes it unlawful for any bus operator to discriminate against a disabled person simply because they are disabled. The Public Service Vehicles Accessibility Regulations 2000 require there to be certain facilities on board. However, there is a point at which there has to be a conversation between the two types of users who want to occupy that space on the bus, or a point at which one has to be told to make way for the other.

I do not seek to propose a solution to that tension in this debate, but I simply wanted to mention it because constituents have raised it with me more than once. Obviously, being left at the side of the road can be a source of deep distress to a wheelchair user who is not able to get to their destination. I do not need to describe to the House how bad such a situation can be. I of course hope that all bus drivers would demonstrate maximum respect for their disabled passengers, as would other passengers in such difficult situations.

I am confident that the Department is encouraging bus companies to do the right thing. I know that the bus company has had words with those responsible, and that it will do its best to discharge its duty.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

Given that rationale, why have so many bus companies from across the country not taken up the Royal National Institute of Blind People’s campaign for talking buses? Why, outside London, do so many buses not have such a system?

[Chloe Smith]

I will leave the technical answer to the companies or my right hon. Friends on the Front Bench. However, I reassure the hon. Lady that I recognise what the campaign stands for—I have been on a bus journey with my blind constituent Mrs Bernie Reddington, who is a force of nature as a campaigner in her own right—and I strongly support its aims.

I want to talk about young people, who are one of the groups I mentioned, and about how bus travel for them varies between rural and urban areas. Young people in London enjoy free travel, but the choices outside London or the major metropolises—you can tell me whether that is the plural of metropolis, Madam Deputy Speaker; I only went to a comprehensive school, so I do not know what it is—can be limited or non-existent for those who need to get to college, work or wherever they wish to be.

The shadow Secretary of State has described a situation in which there is an angelic choir of Labour authorities up and down the country and then there is everybody else, but that is not what we are seeing. For example, Labour-controlled Norfolk county council is hiking transport costs for 16 to 19-year-old students. I want to say more about that because I joined the students who were campaigning strongly against that in Norfolk and very firmly backed the campaign that they had to have last year. The county council has deferred the matter for another year, so its original decision still stands.

Slashing the bus subsidy for 16 to 19-year-olds would be wrong. Students told me that even young apprentices who are earning a wage were worried about finding that kind of money, and many students do not do anything in addition to their studies to earn money. What the Labour authority has proposed will cause a genuine cost of living problem. It would hit the poorest students hardest, and it would deprive them of the choice of where to study in Norfolk, which will have a real impact on the future generation. I do not say that the solution is more spending, more borrowing and more debt, because guess who that would affect most out of all the generations?

I and fellow Norfolk MPs set out other options that the county council could have considered. The student union deserves praise for having got young people together to campaign on this issue. Young people need to be involved in politics, because not being there to present their arguments can lead to other people making decisions for them. It is wrong for the Labour-controlled county council to impose a 55% increase in ticket prices, which would hit the poorest students the hardest.

[Luciana Berger]

rose—

[Chloe Smith]

I will give way if the hon. Lady has something important to say about what the Labour-controlled county council has done.

[Luciana Berger]

Will the hon. Lady tell the House what cuts her Government have imposed on her Labour council locally? Has she reflected on the fact that her Government have cut support for transport—including buses—by 17% in real terms since 2012-13? What is her Labour county council supposed to do in those circumstances?

[Chloe Smith]

It is supposed to man up and not ask for more spending, more borrowing and more debt, which—as far as I can tell from this debate—is what the hon. Lady and many of her hon. Friends are still doing. Young people must not be told that borrowing will sort out the problem, because they will only have to pay for it in due course. I have been clear on that point and am happy to be clear about it again. A county council has to balance choices between the generations, and that is what the debate was about.

Let me move on to the other generation that needs to use bus services, and give a brief mention to the pensioners with whom I have campaigned on Spixworth road in my constituency. We must ensure that elderly people can get around, and buses are particularly important to them.

I shall close my remarks by mentioning two constructive schemes that hon. Members may be surprised but pleased to hear involve Norfolk county council. One is a total transport scheme in which the council and the East of England ambulance service are working together to give people access to health services, and the second is a smart-ticketing pilot run in conjunction with the council and the Department for Transport. Many other Members wish to speak on this important subject, so in conclusion: buses do matter.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—