Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Catherine McKinnell and Nick Gibb

Monday 23rd October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

Last week, the Government added another 41 schools and colleges to the RAAC list, bringing the total to 214. The Education Secretary claims that children prefer to learn in portacabins, but it is far from a joke when some are still waiting for temporary classrooms, studying from home or in cramped sports halls and dining rooms. Can the Minister confirm the total number of pupils who are already impacted and are expected to be impacted by this chaos? When will all children receive undisrupted face-to-face learning? Surely that is the minimum that a parent can expect for their child.

[Nick Gibb]

I congratulate the hon. Lady on her first Education questions and her appointment as shadow Schools Minister, although this is not our first exchange since her appointment. She is right: there are 214 schools and colleges with confirmed RAAC, which is an increase from the 173 we announced in September. Of those 214 schools, the pupils at 202, or 94%, are in full-time, face-to-face education, and 12 schools or colleges are offering hybrid face-to-face and remote education. Our objective and our focus is to ensure that schools are supported to put in place immediate measures to enable face-to-face education to continue.

EBacc: Expressive Arts Subjects

Debate between Catherine McKinnell and Nick Gibb

Monday 4th July 2016 Westminster Hall

[Catherine McKinnell]

My hon. Friend makes a valid and important point.

The question that has been asked over and over again is: why? I hope the Minister will answer that question today. Why would the Government want to limit opportunities to study subjects such as design and technology? The Edge Foundation commented during last week’s EBacc Twitter debate:

“D&T teaches young people how things are designed, developed, made and improved”.

As the National Society for Education in Art and Design succinctly put it,

“In life ‘knowing how’ is just as important as ‘knowing that’.”

I am quite sure that the Minister will pledge in his response that the Government have no intention of restricting access to these subjects. Indeed, in the culture White Paper, the Education Secretary declared that

“Access to cultural education is a matter of social justice.”

However, warm words are simply not enough. What does the Minister really think will be the result of forcing all schools, which are already hard-pressed, to enter 90% of their pupils for the EBacc? A headteacher and member of the organisation SCHOOLS NorthEast has commented that the EBacc creates a “false hierarchy of subjects”. The National Association of Head Teachers has remarked:

“Given the pressures created by the Ebacc, there will be precious little time left for subjects outside the core.”

[The Minister for Schools (Mr Nick Gibb)]

I did not intend to intervene, but I will do so on that point. The hon. Lady referred to a hierarchy of English, maths and science, so there is already a hierarchy. Does she want to remove that element of compulsion up to 16 in order to eradicate that hierarchy?

[Catherine McKinnell]

I thank the Minister for intervening simply because it shows that he is listening to the debate, which is good. However, those were not my words; they were the words of a SCHOOLS NorthEast member, who has said that the EBacc creates not a hierarchy but a false hierarchy. I said at the beginning of my comments that nobody questions the importance of maths, English and science as a foundation of learning, but the restrictive nature of the EBacc leaves no room for artistic subjects. I am pleased the Minister is listening so carefully.

Who could blame headteachers for wanting to focus all of their schools’ energies on delivering the EBacc’s results, whether or not the subjects studied are appropriate for their pupils? They hear repeated warnings, including in the Conservative party manifesto, that their school will not be able to receive the highest rating from Ofsted if they do not meet their EBacc targets. I know the Education Secretary believes that those expressing concerns about the EBacc are “adults writing off children”, but nothing could be further from the truth. They are seeing a Government restricting young people’s life chances by forcing them to focus on a narrow and restrictively defined group of subjects. They are concerned about a Government reducing the ability of schools such as Walbottle Campus in my constituency to deliver a balanced and creative curriculum tailored to each young person’s talents and needs and focusing on the overall experience and wellbeing of their students. Of course, this is a Government who are determined to impose a one-size-fits-all approach to GCSEs at a time when they claim to be introducing autonomy for all headteachers and local schools through academisation.

The Schools Minister has repeatedly claimed that there is no evidence the EBacc is having a negative impact on the arts, substantiating that with the argument that in the past five years there has been a 3% increase in the uptake of at least one arts subject. We may well hear that again in his response today, but the Bacc for the Future campaign has stated that those figures are flawed as they omit various BTEC qualifications, include early entry AS-levels and neglect design and technology, in which exam entries dropped by a staggering 19,000 last year. Indeed, new figures produced just last month show that entries for GCSEs in arts subjects have fallen by 46,000 this year compared with last year—a loss five times the one in 2015, when candidate numbers for arts subjects fell by 9,000. The ArtsProfessional website reported:

“The falling take-up of arts GCSEs has already started to spill over into A levels. There were 4,300 fewer candidates for A level arts subjects this year—a decline three times bigger than the 1,500 recorded in 2015.”

Of most concern is the claim by the Creative Industries Federation that schools with a high proportion of pupils eligible for free school meals have been more than twice as likely to withdraw arts subjects as those with a low proportion. So much for access to cultural education being a matter of social justice. Of course, that decline is taking place even before the EBacc has become compulsory in our schools. The chief executive of the Creative Industries Federation said that the decline is

“alarming and further confirms a longstanding trend that EBacc is clearly exacerbating.”

He went on to comment:

“For a sector already suffering skills shortages, undervaluing and excluding creative subjects has major ramifications. The impact will not only be felt by the creative economy but also by other sectors, such as engineering, that desperately need some of the same skills. Although it is possible to take up jobs in our sector without exam results in creative subjects, it is much harder and potentially more expensive to do so, which obviously further diminishes the chances for young people from more disadvantaged backgrounds. There are many people who are not academic in a traditional sense and who would struggle with the EBacc yet are thriving and excelling today in careers from fashion to video games. If creative subjects are increasingly painted as an ‘optional extra’ to a more traditional core curriculum, these are some of the people who could be lost in future.”

As the Chancellor highlighted in his 2015 autumn statement,

“Britain is not just brilliant at science; it is brilliant at culture too. One of the best investments we can make as a nation is in our extraordinary arts, museums, heritage, media and sport.”—[Official Report, 25 November 2015; Vol. 602, c. 1368.]

I agree. The Government’s own figures show that the creative industries are one of the fastest growing sectors in the UK economy, worth more than £84 billion a year or nearly £10 million an hour. According to the CBI, the creative industries employ some 2 million people, with around one in 11 jobs found in the creative economy. Critically, as the Creative Industries Federation highlights, those roles are broadly protected from automation.

This is an area in which Great Britain genuinely leads the world but one in which we have a significant skills shortage, so much so that a range of roles in the creative industries are included in the Home Office’s tier 2 visa shortage occupation list—for example, graphic designers, programmers, software developers, artists, producers, directors, dancers and skilled musicians. Nevertheless, this is the time when the Department for Education is determined to force schools down a path that will inevitably lead to even fewer British students taking up the subjects and developing the skills that the UK’s burgeoning creative industries desperately need. As has been made clear by Artists’ Union England—a relatively new trade union established by my constituent Theresa Easton—

“The new EBacc proposals will leave the creative sector without a future workforce.”

It is absolutely nonsensical.

Of particular concern is the evidence highlighted by the Creative Industries Federation’s higher and further education working group, which shows that many of the courses that need students to have studied art and design at school level also have high levels of students with special educational needs. The group cites remarks by the British Dyslexia Association that

“People with dyslexia are frequently successful in entrepreneurship, sales, art and design, entertainment, acting, engineering, architecture, I.T., computer animation, technical and practical trades and professions.”

It also cites the fact that more than 4,000 students at the University of the Arts London are disabled and/or dyslexic—24%, compared with just 4.7% at Cambridge University.

[Catherine McKinnell]

I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention, because I know that she not only cares passionately about how well her own son does and has done, but cares and campaigns passionately for all children with special educational needs. This is an issue that the Minister must sit up and take notice of because by insisting on the implementation of EBacc for all or almost all pupils, the Government seriously risk restricting the life chances and future career opportunities of those with special educational needs. Not only does that do those young people out of their potential creative futures, but it does our creative industries out of their special skills and contributions.

Finally, I want to touch on concerns that have been raised with me about the EBacc by Studio West—a studio school established in West Denton in my constituency in September 2014. As Studio West has highlighted, studio schools have been established to bridge the gap between the skills and knowledge that young people need for success and those that the current education system provides. By design, a studio school’s curriculum embraces enterprise initiatives, innovative project-based and work-related approaches to learning and an emphasis on employable skills. Studio West feels very strongly that the EBacc judgment made of all secondary schools is too restrictive if studio schools are to fully embrace their ethos.

[Mr Gibb]

The hon. Lady is making a very good speech, and I wanted to intervene in order to demonstrate that I am still listening to her wise words. The EBacc consultation makes the point that there is no proposal—certainly set out in the consultation—to include studio schools in the requirement for the EBacc.

[Catherine McKinnell]

I thank the Minister for that intervention because I have already written to him about this issue and have been awaiting a response. I hope that we will receive a fuller response in his reply to the debate, or indeed in writing.

In conclusion, I introduced my remarks this afternoon by talking about the intrinsic value of the arts and arts education for individuals and wider society. Those points are echoed by Studio West in my constituency:

“Expressive arts subjects allow for intensive focus on essential transferable skills such as problem solving, working collaboratively, interpretive analysis, empathy, self-confidence, discipline, dedication and mastery, to name but a few.”

I was contacted by a large number of individuals and organisations ahead of this debate and I am conscious that I have not been able to mention them all; however, there is one that I want to make particular reference to in conclusion this afternoon. Last week, I received an email from Emma, an experienced secondary school teacher in West Yorkshire. Emma got in touch to ask me to raise her concerns about the EBacc not because I am her MP, but because her voice in Parliament was brutally taken away by the shocking death of our late friend and colleague, Jo Cox—sorry; it’s hard to speak about this—whom she had previously asked to attend this debate.

At a time when we know that there has been a significant increase in mental health issues in young people and at a time when we need more, not less, empathy, tolerance and co-operation in society, I strongly urge the Government to look again and consider the impact that the EBacc is having on the subjects that can help us to achieve that.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for Schools (Mr Nick Gibb)]

It is a delight to be debating under your chairmanship today, Mr Chope. I congratulate the organisers of the petition and the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) on delivering this important debate. Hon. Members on both sides of the Chamber have made very good speeches.

I share the hon. Lady’s commitment to the arts, and I want to reassure her that the Government share it, too, as demonstrated by the quotation from the Chancellor that she cited. We want to ensure that every child has a high-quality arts education throughout their time at school. Like the right hon. Member for Tottenham (Mr Lammy), I was a chorister, and equally angelic, although not in a cathedral but a large parish church— St Edmund’s church in Roundhay in Leeds. I regularly go to the theatre—the Donmar, the National and the Chichester Festival theatre—so I am as passionate as anybody here about the importance of arts education.

We are committed to ensuring that such an education is not the preserve of the elite, but the entitlement of every single child. That concern was also raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (David Warburton) in his excellent and well informed speech. It is for that reason that, in maintained schools, music, art and design are compulsory in key stages 1, 2 and 3 of the national curriculum—between the ages of five and 14. This debate is not about all those years of education; it is about just two years after the end of key stage 3. Pupils must also be taught drama as part of the English curriculum and dance as part of the PE curriculum. Maintained schools also have a duty to offer key stage 4 pupils the chance to study an arts subject if they wish.

We have heard concerns today about the impact of the EBacc. It is important to set out why we are so committed to ensuring that the vast majority of pupils take the core academic curriculum subjects that the EBacc combination provides. Every child deserves to leave school fully literate and numerate, with an understanding of the history, geography and science of the world they inhabit, and a grasp of a language other than their own. Yet in 2010, many pupils—often those from the most disadvantaged backgrounds—were denied an education in that academic core. Only 31% of pupils took a GCSE in history and only 26% took a GCSE in geography. Only 43% took a foreign language GCSE—down from 76% in 2000. A flight away from a core academic curriculum was taking place, and the Government had to act.

In 2010, we announced the EBacc as a measure for the school performance tables. The EBacc measures the number of pupils entered for and achieving good GCSEs in a core of academic subjects: English, maths, science, geography or history, and a language. The success of the EBacc so far is clear. The proportion of pupils entering the EBacc combination has risen from just 22% in 2011 to 39% in 2015. Hon. Members talk about arts subjects as an add-on to that core academic curriculum, but only 22% took that core academic curriculum in 2011, and we reached only 39% in 2015.

Schools have made progress, but there is still further to go, not least because pupils who are eligible for free school meals are almost half as likely to be entered for the EBacc as those who are not. It cannot be right that where a child goes to school or the wealth of their parents determines whether they study the core subjects that will help them succeed in higher education and the job market. I wonder how many hon. Members in this debate have GCSEs or—more likely, given our ages— O-levels in all the EBacc subjects.

Last year, we set out our ambition for 90% of pupils in mainstream secondary schools to enter the EBacc. We are clear that the vast majority of pupils deserve to benefit from studying a core academic curriculum up to the age of 16. We will not apologise for having high aspirations for every child, but I would like to reassure hon. Members that that core academic curriculum can safely sit alongside a high-quality education in the arts. We have never said that pupils should study the EBacc subjects and nothing else. All schools will continue to offer a wide range of options outside the EBacc so pupils have the opportunity to study subjects that reflect their individual interests and strengths. The EBacc is limited in size so there is flexibility for pupils to take additional subjects of their choosing.

[Catherine McKinnell]

One of the key questions that people continue to ask is why the Government have differentiated between history and geography, and some of the arts subjects. Why are those subjects not simply included in the EBacc options? If they are run alongside the EBacc, as the Minister put it, students undertaking the EBacc who do not take subjects in addition to the eight will not get the opportunity to study those arts subjects.

[Mr Gibb]

Many subjects are not included in the EBacc, including religious studies, and a range of very important, high-quality vocational subjects such as economics, and music and art.

[Catherine McKinnell]

Will the Minister explain why?

[Mr Gibb]

Yes, I will come to that.

The issue is that English, maths and science are compulsory until the age of 16. Until 2004, a foreign language was compulsory until the age of 16. It would not be hugely controversial to reintroduce such a compulsion, although we are not doing that. What we are really talking about is one subject—a humanity—for two years in our schools at key stage 4. All this debate seems to be about is whether children should continue to study either history or geography—one subject out of the whole school curriculum—for another two years at school. This debate boils down to that and whether we think it is important for students to study a language.

Our view is that it is important that young people at secondary school study history and geography at key stage 3, take both subjects seriously, and take one or other of them through to GCSE. We took that policy decision because we believe it is important that young people learn the skills of writing essays and that they engage in understanding that part of our history. It is a tiny part of the curriculum. We were also determined to keep the EBacc small to enable pupils to study the arts, a second foreign language or vocational subjects in the one, two or three extra slots that the EBacc allows.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gibb]

No. Those figures are a consequence of the EBacc measure, which was taken seriously by schools—we have seen an increase in the EBacc performance measure. That is what we have seen—no fall in the figures. My assertion is that there will be no significant fall in the arts subjects as a consequence of the EBacc figure of 90%. The schools cited during the debate—the ones that have the strongest arts subjects, the choirs and the music GCSEs—are all doing the EBacc subjects right through to GCSE. They are not neglecting the arts. In fact, I assert that the schools that have the strongest arts education are also the ones that get the highest level in the EBacc performance measure.

[Catherine McKinnell]

Will the Minister acknowledge some disagreement about the statistics, the widespread concern that there is already a significant drop in the take-up of subjects and huge concern about a further drop in future take-up? The Government cannot simply reverse this easily, because we will have lost the teachers and the experts in the profession as a result of the drop in numbers. They would be difficult to recover. Will the Minister take on board those concerns and come back with a proper response about what the Government will do to take them into account?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Gibb]

Partly—that will do for now. We believe that for too long pupils from disadvantaged backgrounds have been dismissed, missing out on the core academic curriculum that is taken as a given by their more affluent peers. Our EBacc policy will ensure that that is no longer the case.

[Catherine McKinnell]

I have been listening carefully to the Minister. I appreciate the argument he is making and the Government’s aspiration, but does he recognise that some young people will struggle with maths and English and the EBacc’s core curriculum? As my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) set out, including a broader range of optional subjects as part of that could keep some of those young people on board by allowing them to take more artistic, expressive and creative subjects, which help them to stay interested and focused on the core subjects in which they also need to achieve. By closing down those opportunities, the Government could be undermining the ability of more students to achieve the EBacc standard.

[Mr Gibb]

I could not agree more; we do not disagree on this. That is why those creative arts subjects remain compulsory from five right through to 14 and as options that schools are required to offer between the ages of 14 and 16.

We have kept the EBacc deliberately small to enable pupils to have time to study creative subjects. The pupils to whom the hon. Lady refers can and should be encouraged to take those subjects, to ensure that they are engaged. However, we also believe it is important for all young people to study a foreign language and to take sciences, maths, English and at least one humanity from the ages of 14 to 16. We believe they should be able to do that as a core, basic part of their education, in addition to arts subjects that they might want to study between the ages of 14 and 16.

I hope hon. Members are assured that in providing all pupils with a core academic education that will help them to succeed we are in no way preventing pupils from studying the arts. The EBacc is a powerful reform that has already led to more than 91,000 more pupils studying a core academic curriculum at GCSE in 2015 than in 2011. This vital component of the Government’s move towards more rigour in the classroom should not be diluted due to the idea that the arts and a core academic curriculum cannot co-exist within schools. They should, they can and they do.

Key Stage 2 Tests

Debate between Catherine McKinnell and Nick Gibb

Tuesday 10th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Gibb]

My hon. Friend is right. It is important to measure progress, as well as absolute attainment. One reason why some people regard the assessment this year as challenging is that there are questions in it that previously were not included in the standard test. They were called level 6 tests and were taken separately. We now include those challenging tests within this test so that schools can get credit for the progress of children who start their school with high levels of prior attainment.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State appeared before the Education Committee on 27 April and told me that the new testing regime for key stage 1 and key stage 2 had not been handled badly. I, and parents and teachers throughout the country, strongly disagree. Does the Minister accept that his Department’s actions are making the working lives of teachers more stressful and more difficult, and explain how he thinks that will help to solve the already very worrying teacher recruitment crisis?

[Mr Gibb]

Whenever I have a platform, I talk about how important it is to go into teaching. I say that it is a very important profession. There are more teachers—450,000—in the profession today than there have been in history. There are 13,000 more teachers today than there were in 2010, and 14,000 returners came into the teaching profession last year, which is more than the 11,000 who came in a few years before that. Of course, we want more professionals to come into teaching as the pupil population increases. That is why we have very effective advertising campaigns and why we are spending £1.3 billion on generous bursaries to attract the best graduates into teaching.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Catherine McKinnell and Nick Gibb

Monday 23rd May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

4. What estimate he has made of the number of young people who will opt to study English baccalaureate subjects in the 2011-12 academic year.

[The Minister of State, Department for Education (Mr Nick Gibb)]

We do not currently collect systematic data on pupil choices, but anecdotal evidence suggests that the English baccalaureate measure is having a positive effect, with more schools making this combination of subjects open to more pupils. Our concern is that last year just 15.6% of pupils achieved a C grade or better in the English baccalaureate combination of subjects.

[Catherine McKinnell]

I thank the Minister for that reply, but what would he say to a governor at Walbottle Campus in my constituency who raised with me the fact that that school and others like it have seen an impressive performance in GCSE results in the past few years, but saw only about 5% of its pupils achieving the E-bac? Does the Minister recognise the concern that E-bac by diktat will put at risk the hard work and commitment of staff, governors and pupils in creating a broad curriculum that enables all pupils to thrive?

[Mr Gibb]

The English baccalaureate is not prescriptive. It is just a measure—one of many measures—that this Government are putting forward as part of the transparency agenda. It is the next stage in that school’s improved performance. It is a concern to the Government that children, particularly in deprived areas, are not being offered that combination of choices. Only 8% of children who qualify for free school meals were even entered for the English baccalaureate subjects, and only 4% achieved them.