Ukraine: Military Equipment

Debate between Catherine McKinnell and James Cartlidge

Tuesday 27th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[James Cartlidge]

My hon. Friend is sterling in his championing of the Ukrainian cause and of the excellent work done by DE&S in his constituency. I have visited Abbey Wood twice and there is excellent leadership under Andy Start. DE&S has been responsible for the procurement of a huge amount of munitions and materials at pace in Ukraine, but my hon. Friend is right that we also need to think about the long term and how Ukraine can start to build its own industrial base. That is why we recently had our first defence trade visit there. I am keen to see much more of that and pleased to have his support for that work.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

May I take the opportunity to reiterate how proud we are of our armed forces personnel, who have worked around the clock to train and support Ukrainian recruits as part of the vital Op Interflex? I urge the Government to confirm where that programme will be after the summer and to make a commitment to it for as long as it takes Ukraine to win.

[James Cartlidge]

The hon. Lady makes the good point that we should pay tribute to all the personnel involved in Operation Interflex. We have provided a huge amount of training. I went to Salisbury plain to meet the Irish Guards who were training Ukrainian civilians of all backgrounds, who would have but weeks of training before returning to a pretty attritional conflict. We all need to reflect on that. It is an incredible operation that has had international support from many other nations. The hon. Lady is right that we are in it for the long term, and we will keep training Ukrainians to defend their homeland.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Debate between Catherine McKinnell and James Cartlidge

2nd reading
Wednesday 29th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (James Cartlidge)]

I join the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead (Abena Oppong-Asare) in paying tribute to Betty Boothroyd on the day of her funeral. I thank all colleagues who paid tribute to our great female Speaker, including in a fascinating anecdote from the hon. Member for Mitcham and Morden (Siobhain McDonagh).

It is a pleasure to respond to the many contributions from hon. and right hon. Members. I start with the Labour Front Benchers and the hon. Member for Richmond Park (Sarah Olney), who speaks for the Liberal Democrats. As at Treasury orals, they once again used the word “loophole” to describe our investment allowance for North sea oil and gas, which is an extraordinary thing to say. When we debated the autumn statement, the shadow Economic Secretary to the Treasury, the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq), said that

“we need more oil and gas”.—[Official Report, 22 November 2022; Vol. 723, c. 180.]

That was what she said, but it is clear from Labour’s policy that it does not want that oil and gas to come from the United Kingdom. What an extraordinary position.

If we have learned anything from what has happened since Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, it is surely that we have to maximise our domestic energy production. The windfall tax is raising significant funding so that we can pay for all the energy support our constituents are getting, but we are balancing that with an allowance so that we continue to maximise investment in our energy security.

The hon. Member for Ealing North (James Murray) lamented the fact that the Bill does not cover business rates. Well, I have news for him: Finance Bills never cover business rates, which are local taxes. If he were to pick up the Order Paper, he would see that, before this debate, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities introduced the Non-Domestic Rating Bill.

The hon. Gentleman, along with many of his colleagues, including the Chairman of the Work and Pensions Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), and the hon. Members for Brentford and Isleworth (Ruth Cadbury) and for West Lancashire (Ashley Dalton), continued the narrative that our abolition of the lifetime allowance is somehow a tax cut for the rich. They talk of the beneficiaries as if they were oligarchs, but we do not see it like that. These people have worked hard all their working life, doing the right thing and paying into a pension.

My hon. Friend the Member for Amber Valley (Nigel Mills), in an excellent speech, like my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet (Craig Mackinlay), made an important point about the complexities and issues that would arise if we tried to have a scheme purely for one profession. I said last Thursday that we would have to consult on such a scheme, and then we would have to respond to the consultation. All those things would take months, but our tax cut will come in on 6 April because we need these doctors on our wards now, and we do not want them to retire early. We are backing all our professions because we want to get Britain growing again.

[Catherine McKinnell]

It is interesting that the hon. Gentleman speaks with such passion about moving fast to help these very high earners. Could he explain why the Government are incapable of moving any faster than a snail’s pace on providing childcare for some of the lowest earners in the country?

[James Cartlidge]

The hon. Lady knows why we need a staggered implementation, and I will return to that point.

At the beginning of his speech, the right hon. Member for Dundee East (Stewart Hosie) referred to our progress, or lack of progress as he sees it, on reducing debt, before setting out a load of spending requests and demands for more support. He wants more energy support and more support with the cost of living. He does not want alcohol duty to be uprated by RPI, and I understand why he makes that point, but it scores £5 billion. He cannot have it both ways.

Once again, the right hon. Gentleman spoke about our relative performance following Brexit. By definition, and we can have this debate, our growth compared with other nations must always be an estimate. This is not “Sliding Doors”—my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet mentioned that film—and there is no parallel universe, but there is one area on which we can speak definitively, and that is the saving accrued by not paying our membership fee. I can confirm to the House that, net of the divorce settlement, £14.6 billion has been made available in the current spending review by not having to pay the membership fee. That is an absolute gain from Brexit that the Opposition would not have enjoyed.

My hon. Friends the Members for South Dorset (Richard Drax) and for South Thanet and my constituency near neighbour the former Home Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel), all spoke about corporation tax, and my right hon. Friend made the brilliant Conservative point that the Government do not create jobs—she also spoke very well about eastern region entrepreneurialism, which I obviously support her on.

On the corporation tax issue, I would make this key point: we legislated for the increase in 2021 when we were still in the pandemic, and one only has to look at the graph for borrowing that followed the pandemic, showing the most extraordinary surge, to realise that it is impossible to have such a surge in borrowing without fiscal consequences. So we had to take difficult decisions. Like my right hon. Friend, I ran a small business and I did not enjoy paying corporation tax. As Conservatives we do not want to put up taxes, but we also have a duty to run the public finances in a sound and stable fashion, so we have taken difficult decisions, but they have given us the platform to cut corporation tax in this Budget and Finance Bill for businesses that invest.

The right hon. Member for Dundee East asked about tidal stream energy. We recognise the opportunity of that, which is why we are allocating a ringfenced budget for the technology in allocation round 5. The hon. Member for Richmond Park complained about our performance on inflation relative to the EU; there are 12 countries in the EU with higher inflation than us.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Witham and my hon. Friends the Members for South Dorset and for South Thanet, and I think also my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Richard Fuller), raised a point about pillar 2 and sovereignty, and I totally respect the points and arguments they make. I reassure them that pillar 2 is implemented through domestic legislation in each implementing nation, rather than as an international treaty. The UK has a primary right to impose any top-up tax due on UK-headquartered groups or on foreign groups’ UK operations. If the UK does not exercise that right, the same top-up tax can be imposed by other countries, and businesses would therefore incur the same level of top-up tax but the tax would be paid to that nation, not to the UK.

I said I would respond to the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne North (Catherine McKinnell) on childcare. As she knows, we are increasing support for those on low incomes. We are increasing support for those on universal credit, not least by paying it up front. We will be phasing in the childcare support—from April 2024 working parents of two-year-olds can access 15 hours per week. From September 2024 all working parents of children aged between nine months and three years can access 15 hours per week. [Interruption.]

There seems to be a cold going round or something, as there is a lot of coughing, so I will conclude by referring to the point of the right hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson). He is not in his place but he asked an important question, especially in light of our announcement in relation to the Windsor framework. I can confirm that the Government have today published secondary legislation that will extend full VAT relief for energy-saving materials to Northern Ireland. The Windsor framework now enables the relief to be expanded to Northern Ireland, with a single UK-wide relief set to take effect from 1 May 2023. The relief supports households across the UK to improve their energy efficiency. I hope the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who is always present, will relay that back to the right hon. Gentleman.

To conclude, the Prime Minister has three economic targets. We want to halve inflation; this year we are forecast to more than halve it, but we know times remain challenging for households. We want to get debt down; that is why we are running public finances in a prudent fashion. Above all, we want to get the economy growing; that is why I commend this Finance Bill to the House.

Question put, That the amendment be made.