Privilege: Conduct of Right Hon. Boris Johnson

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Andy McDonald

Monday 19th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Vauxhall (Florence Eshalomi), and particularly the powerful poem she just quoted.

I rise to express my sincere gratitude to the Privileges Committee, particularly the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman), and all the staff and Clerks who supported its vital work, which is of profound democratic importance to this country.

I speak today with a feeling of overwhelming relief that, at last, the truth is being told in this House and the collective gaslighting of a nation is finally over. In a way, it is shocking that a parliamentary Committee has had to spell out:

“If Ministers cannot be trusted to tell the truth, the House cannot do its job”.

Even more shocking is that, on this occasion, the Minister in question was the most senior person in Government, the Prime Minister—a Prime Minister who sought to obscure the truth from those to whom he was accountable by lying deliberately and repeatedly, and who, by lying to Parliament, was also lying to the people who elect it; and a Prime Minister who has effectively shredded the ministerial code, which is, in the words of the constitutional historian Lord Hennessy of Nympsfield,

“a crucial part of the spinal cord of the constitution”.

Boris Johnson announced on the day the report was published:

“This is a dreadful day for MPs and for democracy.”

In fact, the reverse is true. It was a day that saw British parliamentary democracy vindicated against an unprecedented attack. But let us be very clear that our democracy is fragile and that there was nothing inevitable about this particular outcome.

The report shows that our “good chap” conventions of government allowed a rogue Prime Minister to run amok for far too long. It offers some hope because it also shows that, if an MP or, indeed, a Prime Minister deliberately lies and undermines the processes of this House, they can be held to account. But I say “can be”, not “will be”, advisedly, because this inquiry had to be fought for. There was nothing guaranteed about it, because our standards systems are still not fit for purpose.

It is both negligent and dangerous to assume democracy is inevitable, perpetual and unshakeable. It is not. It is breakable and contingent. We have to actively and vigilantly defend it, which is why standing together as a Parliament in support of the Privileges Committee’s report is so essential, and why it goes beyond just the rogue activities of one particular Member of Parliament.

We also need to strengthen the mechanisms we have to hold Government to account because there remain serious instances of former Ministers misleading this House that have gone uncorrected and unchallenged. We need new mechanisms to call any Minister, including a Prime Minister, to account if they deliberately mislead the House—a view shared prior to partygate, in 2021, by the Committee on Standards in Public Life, chaired by Lord Evans. It is shocking that the role of the so-called independent adviser on the ministerial code is, essentially, false advertising, and will continue to be so until that person is appointed by an independent panel, is able to initiate their own investigations and has the authority to determine breaches of the code. Those basic, yet fundamental changes would allow Back Benchers to raise concerns and evidence with the adviser, who could then act as they, and not just the Prime Minister, saw fit.

The current Prime Minister could have made those changes, but he has chosen not to. Nor has he appointed an anti-corruption champion after the position has been left vacant for more than a year. Our systems need to be strengthened so that, if a Minister misleads the House deliberately, or if they do it inadvertently but do not correct at the earliest opportunity, a formal process to hold them to account should be an inevitability. This inquiry only came about in April 2022 because of the spiralling unease and rebellion of some Members on Boris Johnson’s Back Benches, which meant he could not whip his MPs to prevent it. Over a year before that, in April 2021, I joined a wide cross-party group of MPs to call for an inquiry into Boris Johnson’s repeated lies to the House on other matters, and it did not happen. So it was somewhat ironic to learn, via a subject access request, how that call has been labelled as “misinformation” or indeed “disinformation” by one of the Government units supposed to be acting as an arbiter of accuracy and honesty.

Hon. Members of all parties must stand by this Committee and demonstrate that rules matter, that Parliament is more important than party and that standards in public life must be upheld. Conservative Members, in particular, must face down the Trumpian intimidation orchestrated by a small band of, frankly, anti-democratic Johnson supporters. Those Members need to be very clear that abstention is not just cowardice—it is complicity in the former Prime Minister’s contempt of Parliament.

The current Prime Minister ought to be here. He ought to be leading by example. Instead, he has chosen to be silent and is conspicuous by his absence tonight. Nor has he even ruled out the idea that Mr Johnson could be permitted to stand as a Conservative parliamentary candidate some time in the future. If there were any shred of seriousness in the Prime Minister’s pledge to restore accountability and integrity to public life, he should unambiguously endorse the Privileges Committee report tonight and urge his fellow party Members to do the same.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Lady agree that, with the Prime Minister not attending and failing to vote, he is endorsing the conduct? Is not it time that we depart from this principle of dishonesty, which was baked into the offer made by Boris Johnson originally? That is what got us into this mess in the first place; it was deemed to be acceptable in return for electoral advantage.

[Caroline Lucas]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and agree entirely with the points he makes. By not speaking out tonight, the Prime Minister is guilty of collusion, effectively. He has not stood up for the key principles at stake and he has not done his duty tonight.

To conclude, this Committee report is a vital part of the fightback against post-truth politics. Truth is not a technicality. As the report states, our democracy depends on it. So what is at stake here are our most profound democratic principles and the very concept of decency in public life: leading by example versus hypocrisy; truth versus lies; and respect versus contempt. There can be no failing to turn up or sitting on the sidelines. The choice is either being prepared to stand up and defend democracy, or being prepared to turn a blind eye to it being under attack. This is much bigger than one rogue Prime Minister. All of us will be rightly judged tonight on what we choose to do.

Confidence in the Secretary of State for Transport

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Andy McDonald

Tuesday 19th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Andy McDonald]

I could not agree more. We are seeing instance after instance. It is evidence, if any more were needed, that the system has completely and utterly failed and needs to be completely revised. Why are train companies allowed to retain their franchise despite repeated failures? Northern and GTR should be stripped of their contracts. Labour said very clearly that franchise failure should mean forfeit. It is clear that the Department for Transport has failed to ensure that train companies fulfil the terms of their contracts.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that it is not only GTR that should lose its franchise? The Secretary of State should have his office removed as well because this is a façade of a franchise. We know that Ministers are behind it, and it is Ministers who should be held accountable for the fact that passengers in places such as Preston Park in Brighton are losing their jobs, cannot spend time with their kids in hospital and are having their lives wrecked.

[Andy McDonald]

I agree entirely. The Government seem to want to have control and intervene, but they do not want to take responsibility. GTR should have been stripped of its contract years ago for running the worst rail service in modern times. The company has repeatedly been found in breach of its contract as well as overseeing toxic industrial relations and poor customer service. Had the Government heeded Labour’s call to strip the company of its franchise, the recent disruption could have been avoided.

Rail Franchising

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Andy McDonald

Wednesday 10th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Andy McDonald]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. It is important that the voices of passengers and those who work in the railway industry are heard, because they are the people who not only use the service but are committed to making it work.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

My constituents in Brighton will certainly agree with the hon. Gentleman 100% when he criticises Govia Thameslink Railway/Southern; it is adding insult to injury to put prices up when the services that people in Brighton are getting are so awful. On the issue of cost, rail fares have gone up by 23% over the past 20 years and the cost of driving has gone down by 16%. Does the hon. Gentleman agree that privatisation is absolutely failing passengers, and that instead of lining shareholders’ pockets we should be investing in our railways?

Firefighters’ Pension Scheme (England)

Debate between Caroline Lucas and Andy McDonald

Monday 15th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

Perhaps I can get to the nub of the matter: lowering fitness standards to ensure that firefighters can work to the age of 60 is reckless in the extreme. No responsible Government would do that, because there is no doubt that it would result in somebody dying. The Government should think again. The Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government, the hon. Member for Great Yarmouth (Brandon Lewis), is on the record as saying:

“The government believes a solution can be reached, but not under the shadow of industrial action, which only serves to damage firefighters’ good standing with the public. By calling more strikes during an open consultation the FBU leadership has once again shown it is not serious about finding a resolution.”

I thoroughly disagree. Reputational damage is indeed being caused, but not to our highly regarded and respected firefighters; it is the Government’s reputation that is being trashed.

Firefighting is a dangerous and physically demanding job. Firemen and women risk their lives rescuing people from burning buildings and endanger themselves in hazardous situations in order to keep us safe. Most people agree that, given their commitment and the risks they take, they should be entitled to a fair and workable pension scheme. It is the Government’s standing with the public, not the firefighters’, that is being damaged by this shambolic pensions dispute.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that what is so depressing is not only the content of this debate, but the spirit in which it is being conducted? The Government are losing faith with the firefighters and essentially blackmailing them. That is what is in front of them: a blackmail. They are being told to accept it or leave it.

[Andy McDonald]

The hon. Lady makes a powerful point. Firefighters have been presented with a Hobson’s choice: to continue working in a dangerous job beyond the point at which the body is capable, or to have their pensions starkly reduced if they opt for retirement. Worse still, the Minister has said today that if firefighters do not back down, they will have no cover whatsoever. What sort of a way is that to treat such valued public servants?

I have been contacted by a constituent, a 45-year-old firefighter. Under the pension scheme in place when he joined, he could have retired at 50 as he would have accrued more than 25 years’ service. However, the retirement age has been raised to 55, and because full pension protection will be given only to firefighters within 10 years of the normal pension age, from 2016 his pension will now be only partially protected. The situation is blatantly unfair to my constituent, who has paid into his pension scheme since joining the fire brigade and has always been led to believe that his retirement year was 2020. He feels that he has been discriminated against on the basis of age, and on the balance of evidence I find it difficult to disagree with that conclusion.

Some firefighters will be penalised for their age. Although someone older with fewer years of service who is within 10 years of the normal retirement age will be fully protected, my constituent and many others in a similar situation will not. I am sure that officials and legal teams have applied their collective minds to the application of the Equality Act 2010, because it seems to me that this flies in the face of the spirit of the legislation, which is that workers should not be discriminated against on the basis of their age.

Our firefighters routinely put themselves in danger in their line of work. They save lives and keep us safe. We should value our fire services and the brave men and women who keep them running. The minimum we should expect is for the Government to ensure that services remains workable, keeping firefighters and the public as safe as possible. Those who commit themselves to such a physically demanding career should have a fair pension scheme and should expect to be able to retire in security. Firefighters demonstrate great dedication to others and real determination in their line of work. I suggest that the Government take a lesson from our firefighters, take note of the points raised in this debate and return to the negotiating table with a realistic and fair proposal.