Rail 2020
Caroline Lucas Excerpts(10 years, 10 months ago)
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Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)
I am pleased to have this opportunity to debate the Transport Committee’s “Rail 2020” report, which we published in January. The report sets out our vision for the railway to the end of the decade. Our main focus was considering the Government’s plan to achieve efficiency savings of £3.5 billion by 2019, and its implications for passengers and taxpayers. Currently, the railway costs the taxpayer around £4 billion each year. These issues are highly relevant to today’s consideration of the departmental estimates.
It is important to put today’s debate into context. In many ways, the railway has been a success. The number of passenger journeys has almost doubled since privatisation from 735 million in 1994-95 to 1.6 billion in 2011-12; passenger miles travelled have doubled over the same period to 35.4 billion; and rail freight has expanded by over 60%, with 11.5% of freight now conveyed by rail. There has been investment in major projects such as Crossrail and Thameslink in London, with more ongoing or planned work to electrify 800 miles of track and improve rail services in the north with the northern hub.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
Can the hon. Lady tell me whether she or her Committee have made any assessment of the “Rebuilding Rail” report, which says that we could reduce fares if we could reduce the fragmentation of the rail system by bringing the rail back into public ownership?
Mrs Ellman
Addressing fares is an important matter, which I shall refer to later, although we have not specifically considered the report that the hon. Lady mentions.
An important aspect of our inquiry examined Government policy on franchising, particularly in relation to securing value for money. During our inquiry, franchising policy was thrown into disarray when the competition for the inter-city west coast franchise was cancelled as a result of major errors made by the Department for Transport. We published a report on that issue earlier in the year.
A number of serious mistakes were made by officials, but there were also policy failings for which past Ministers were ultimately responsible. The review of franchising that Richard Brown undertook at the request of the Department concluded that it was not sensible to let a 15-year contract for the west coast franchise without a break clause. He also drew attention to the difficulties caused by cutting back on resources while attempting to meet an ambitious timetable. The Department has now published a new timetable. The postponement in tendering for new franchises means a delay of 26 years, with consequential uncertainty for the industry and potential financial implications. I will return to that issue later.
Rail poses a number of policy challenges. Increasing numbers of passengers have led to overcrowding on some routes, and capacity constraints can rarely be resolved quickly or cheaply. It is also important to remember that rail investment is vital for regeneration as well as for relieving overcrowding. The provision of rolling stock is complicated and expensive. Fares are often too high and difficult to understand, and a wide variety of fares are often available for the same journey, from heavily discounted “advance purchase” tickets to very expensive “anytime” walk-on fares. The structure of the industry is complex, and there is suspicion that it creates opportunities for money to leak out of the system, some of it in the form of unjustified profits.
The rail subsidy peaked at £7 billion in 2007-08, and the previous Government asked Sir Roy McNulty to consider how to secure value for money. His report was published in 2011. His most striking conclusion was that there is a 40% efficiency gap between the UK railway and four European comparators: France, the Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland. Reasons given for that disparity include the fragmentation of the rail industry, poor management, problems with franchising, and cultural factors. He made a wide range of recommendations aimed at achieving a 30% cost reduction in the industry by 2019.
Although the rail subsidy has fallen in recent years, it is higher now than in the years before privatisation. In real terms, the passenger railway costs 50% more than in the early 1990s, and there are a number of reasons for that. Increased demand has led to new capital projects and rolling stock.
Mrs Ellman
Having considered all the evidence before it, the Committee decided that McNulty’s proposed methods of achieving efficiencies should be given a chance, although some concerns were expressed. We felt that if the McNulty savings did not materialise, the arguments for more far-reaching structural changes would be compelling.
We have identified a number of issues that the Government must get right if the railway is to continue to grow and become more efficient. The McNulty recommendations include calls for ticket office hours to be reduced, for driver-only operating to be the norm, and for salary restraint. The Committee considers that any changes in staffing, terms and conditions and salaries should be made in the context of a wider programme of changes made throughout the industry and after full consultation with trades unions. Any changes in the numbers and duties of station staff should not be pursued solely to reduce costs, but should reflect changes in passenger ticket-buying behaviour, and should be designed to improve passengers’ experience at stations, including their perception of safety. We were very concerned about the possibility that reducing staffing at stations and on trains would make the railway less safe, particularly at night, and would deter women and vulnerable users from travelling by train.
Caroline Lucas
Given that the train operating companies depend on public subsidies, does the hon. Lady agree that it is entirely wrong for those same companies to hand over an estimated 90% of their operating profits to shareholders, rather than reinvesting them in the staff and safety provisions to which she has referred?
Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)
It is a pleasure to follow, for the second successive Wednesday, the hon. Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman), Chairman of the Transport Committee. Last week our discussions were about high-speed rail; this week’s discussions will be at a slightly more sedate pace.
These are encouraging times for railways in the United Kingdom. As the hon. Lady mentioned, since privatisation passenger numbers have doubled and freight is showing a healthy increase of about 60%. That compares very favourably with our counterparts on the continent. I believe it is fair to say we have had the fastest growth in rail usage.
We are also seeing a substantial programme of investment in our rail network, with large projects such as the electrification of the great western line and the midland main line and the opening of new rail lines, including, I am pleased to say, the east-west line through my constituency to connect Bedford, Milton Keynes, Oxford and Aylesbury, and, it is to be hoped, in due course going further east towards Cambridge and the East Anglian network.
Caroline Lucas
The hon. Gentleman made some comparisons with the rest of Europe in terms of railway passenger numbers. Would he also make some comparisons about the levels of fares in this country and many other European countries?
Iain Stewart
I will happily do that. Indeed, I looked into this matter for a previous debate, as it is often claimed that our rail fares are the highest in Europe. Certainly if we compare immediate, walk-up, any time fares, we are comparatively more expensive, but if we look at the whole basket of fares, we compare very favourably. I urge the hon. Lady to look at an independent website compiled by regular rail users called “The Man in Seat Sixty-One”. It compares similar journeys on the continent and here, and for even very short-time advance fares we compare very favourably, so I do not accept that across the piece it is more expensive to travel by rail in this country than on the continent.
Ben Gummer (Ipswich) (Con)
When Thomas Telford was invited at the end of his career to help with the engineering of some new railway projects, the inventor of this country’s modern road network declined the offer, not because he did not admire railway engineering and the extraordinary speeds that these amazing new machines could achieve—he admired them very much—but because he understood that the railway itself had a necessary monopoly that the road did not. Part of the attraction of the road to Thomas Telford was that once it was built, it allowed someone to travel at any time they pleased in their chosen method of transport, but the railway, for all its brilliance, did not.
That is not to say that the railway is not a useful or brilliant invention. It has been central to the progress and advancement of our country and all developed countries across the world. However, the railway has an intrinsic problem—this is recognised by Sir Roy McNulty’s report, the various commissions instigated by the Department for Transport and, indeed, the Transport Committee report—namely its inability to get the market to work in the normal, functioning way that it would elsewhere.
The interesting thing about the railway is that, over time, it has found different competitors. Despite the fact that its technology is intrinsically the same as that it began with 200 years ago, it continues to compete with road—over the past 50 or 60 years it has competed with it on speed—and increasingly with flight. Rail, as well as its regulation and franchising arrangements, must therefore be seen in its wider context as a competitor with other modes of transport around the country.
It is important to understand why the Government are progressing with the reprivatisation and refranchising of various lines. Ideology is important and has been brought up by several Opposition Members, but privatisation has worked not because of ideology but because it is the most practical and pragmatic way of getting the railways to work. In fact, the entire railway system, which was instigated by the Victorians and which spread around the world to America, France and elsewhere, was a product of private enterprise.
Ben Gummer
I will in a moment.
The system would not be with us today were it not for the massive investments—many of which failed as a result of the risk of capitalism—that made this extraordinary invention possible. Before I allow the hon. Lady to intervene, I recall that in a previous debate she told me about the efficiency of the German railway system, but when I reminded her afterwards that it is now a private system she could not believe it. One of the reasons this country is having to rebuild the railway network is the decades of underinvestment. That is not necessarily a product of various Governments; it is the natural result of a nationalised system whose control rests in the Treasury’s hands.
Caroline Lucas
On that very point, there is still significant state involvement in German railways. What does the hon. Gentleman have to say about the fact that 60% of Britain’s rail operators are owned by European state rail arms? Our high rail fares are being used to subsidise rail services in Germany and beyond, which seems crazy to me.
Ben Gummer
The hon. Lady did not admit to the role of the private sector when I spoke to her about German railways. Of course, there is a role for the state—that is what we are discussing. Any railway has a necessary monopoly: only one train can travel at a time and it has to be owned by somebody. Unlike road, it is not possible for two trains to travel on the same track at the same time, so the state has to intervene at some point in order to regulate and subsidise, as it does with road travel.
We have seen the results of privatisation since 1995. Rail travel has increased by 133%. It is at a higher rate than in the 1920s in absolute numbers. Rail freight has also increased to a point that would have been impossible to imagine in the 1960s and 1970s.
High Speed Rail (Preparation) Bill
Caroline Lucas Excerpts(10 years, 10 months ago)
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Mr McLoughlin
I will come on to say something about compensation later in my speech. I think Coventry will get many benefits. The whole west midlands area will get a huge number of benefits from HS2. I want to see councils such as Coventry start working to make sure that they can get the best out of High Speed 2, both from the connections and the way we serve those areas. I know the hon. Gentleman is incredibly concerned about the way we serve Coventry. As somebody who knows Coventry relatively well, I am also concerned to see that take place.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
The Secretary of State is very kind to give way. My point is that not only is the route of HS2 environmentally damaging, but the whole scheme is socially regressive. It is unaffordable to the bottom 50% of income bands and, in effect, it redirects money from the poorest to the richest. How can he justify this reverse Robin Hood strategy when that £33 billion could be better invested in giving us a better rail system for everybody, not just for the privileged few?
Mr McLoughlin
I find the hon. Lady’s position on the issue strange. I should have thought that the Green party would welcome such investment in public railway systems. [Interruption.] I think I had better answer the hon. Lady. HS2 brings a great increase in capacity and I want to say more about that a little later. That is one of the important issues that lies behind the need for HS2. Also, as I point out to colleagues, going from St Pancras station to Canterbury, the first part of the route from St Pancras to Ashford on a high-speed train is a fantastic fast journey, then one hits the Victorian railway network to Canterbury and the journey slows down completely. I want the rest of the country to get the benefit of high-speed rail, not just the area in the south which already has a high-speed service.
Rail Fares
Caroline Lucas Excerpts(11 years, 8 months ago)
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Maria Eagle
The hon. Lady makes a strong point. I agree that varying the fare cap on the basis of specific local investment promises in the rail network, which is what lies behind that issue, is not how we should set rail fares. Let us be clear, however: the Government are proposing a 3% above-inflation fare rise for the whole country, regardless of whether any additional investment is planned locally. Today’s motion, if supported across the House, would impose a clear national cap of 1% above inflation, so I hope that she will consider joining us in the Lobby to support it.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
I very much support Labour’s motion, although it is a bit timid. Given that privatisation has left us with a costly, fragmented and dysfunctional railway, and given that increasing evidence shows that reuniting railways under public ownership could save us up to £1 billion a year, would the hon. Lady not agree to go further and bring all the railways back into public ownership?
Maria Eagle
At this stage, that would go well beyond the motion before the House, but I hear what the hon. Lady says. Given that she is now no longer the leader of the Green party, however, I wonder whether it is Green party policy—no doubt we will find out in due course.
Mr McLoughlin
I should like to make a bit of progress first.
The best way of securing long-term value for money is to ensure that the rail industry plays its part in delivering lower costs and sustainable railways. That will require all those who are responsible for track and trains to work more closely together. It will require a more responsible approach to pay and modern ways of working among all who are employed in the industry, from the platform to the boardroom. It will require longer franchises, providing greater flexibility, longer contracts and a sharper focus on cost, and it will require smart technology to reduce the cost of selling tickets. We are challenging the industry to deliver efficiencies that will put our railways on a par with the best in the world, and we will pursue the delivery of those savings with the Rail Delivery Group, train operators and others. Let me address the main point made in the motion by saying that our relentless focus on efficiency will help us to put an end to above-inflation increases at the earliest opportunity.
Caroline Lucas
I congratulate the Secretary of State on his new post. I wonder what he would say to one of my constituents who told me a few days ago that he had had to give up his job in London because he could no longer afford the rail fare. How is the Government’s policy of encouraging people to look further afield for jobs consistent with pricing them off the railways that could enable them to do so?
Mr McLoughlin
More people are using the railways now than at any time since 1929, on a lesser network. However, the hon. Lady is right to express concern. I too am concerned about people who are having to spend such a large proportion of their income on transport. I hope that we shall be able to look at that, and that in due course we shall see improvements in some areas.
Dr Huppert
I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. She has been fairly consistent on this issue, which is not true of all those in her party. I was interested to note that the shadow Secretary of State carefully avoided making commitments on how the railway system is operated. At the time of privatisation, I was concerned about some aspects. For example, if I want to travel from Cambridge to London, I do not care if it is cheaper to go to Liverpool because I am trying to go to London. It may be cheaper—or wonderful—to go to Liverpool, but it is not the trip I wish to make. Having said that, renationalising now would create a huge amount of complexity in trying to move to that new world. I am not persuaded that it would be the right thing to do, but I would be happy to discuss it further with the hon. Lady.
Dr Huppert
I will take one last intervention on this point and then make progress.
Caroline Lucas
The hon. Gentleman suggests that it would be too difficult to bring the railways back into public ownership. If it were done on a case-by-case basis as the franchises came up, as with the west coast main line right now, there would not be any extra cost to the public purse; in fact, there would be a reduction in cost.
Dr Huppert
I thank the hon. Lady for her comments. I congratulate her on her new-found freedom and hope that she will enjoy not having the responsibilities of party leader, with the flexibilities that that brings. I suspect that she will continue to be very influential on future leaders of her party. I am happy to talk to her in more detail about how such an approach would work, but I do not think that it is as trivial as she suggests. We must avoid doing something that seems very good on the face of it but does not deliver an improved rail system. For example, passenger usage numbers went up quite significantly at the point of privatisation. I would not want to do anything that jeopardised the growth in the number of rail passengers, and I am sure that she would not want to do so either.
So what can we do to bring down rail costs? We need a more modern and more efficient system. That is why I was so pleased that despite the huge public deficit and the ongoing problems in the eurozone, this year over £9 billion of investment was announced for our railways in the next five-year period. The Liberal Democrats and I were delighted to endorse that. The coalition has committed to electrifying over 800 miles of railways across the country, as well as to making a huge range of other improvements that will make a huge difference to passengers and to business. I was interested that last year’s autumn statement announced £1.4 billion of investment in our railways because, crucially, that provides £400 million more for railways than for roads. I cannot remember the last time any Government took the correct decision to prioritise expenditure on railways over roads.
As well as investing in lower fares for the future, we have to invest in lower fares now, as the excellent Campaign for Better Transport has pointed out. Over the next year, wages are set to rise by 2%, but fares could go up by as much as 3% above inflation—over 6%. Coalition means that one does not always get everything that one would most like to happen. I was pleased that last year the Government moved to RPI plus 1%, which is exactly in between our position and that of our coalition partners, but I cannot support the Conservative proposals for a rise of 3% above inflation for next year, nor the proposal in the Labour motion for above-inflation rises indefinitely. Liberal Democrats want a rate of RPI minus 1%, with fares coming down in real terms from now on. A lot of that would come from the 30% efficiency savings identified by the McNulty review. A previous Secretary of State announced that that money would be split between investment and money going back to the Treasury. We think that more of it should be used to bring rail fares down now and give the money back to people who pay. We would go further to simplify the fare structure and make it much more transparent, and make rail companies put forward the cheapest fares possible and pay refunds when services are below par. The Government are making some progress on that, but we will continue to push for more.
I am delighted that the Government have taken the difficult decision to invest in railways for the future. That is not an easy thing to do when times are tight; it would have been far better to invest more during the boom years. However, if we punish commuters and other travellers now, it could put people off railways altogether, especially those who are just starting work and those who are hardest hit by the ongoing squeeze. That would send out a terrible message about the affordability of public transport, drive down passenger numbers, and put our network on an unsustainable path. As the Campaign for Better Transport says, we cannot allow our railways to become a rich man’s toy. We need to find an agreement again over rail fares that will last for the rest of this Parliament. I strongly urge the Secretary of State to take up this cause strongly, as his predecessor did.
I hope that the Government will continue to look at the long-term strategic projects that are happening. To restore our railways to their Victorian zenith, we need a Victorian level of investment, and a vision to match. That is why I am delighted that the coalition is not only spending more on the railways than any of its predecessors since the Victorian era but committing to projects such as HS2. I am delighted that that is finally happening, but I am disappointed that, for decades, so many opportunities have been missed for greater improvements like that. Our lack of high-speed rail epitomises what has gone wrong in our railways in recent years, why fares are now so high, and why we face such capacity constraints. For years we watched European neighbours and Asian partners develop and build a comprehensive high-speed railway network. They have extended capacity, supported rail freight, released space on roads and reduced congestion. Despite calls over many years from Liberal Democrats, including my hon. Friend the Under-Secretary, British Governments felt that the cost of doing so was too high. Why invest the money when there is nothing to be gained in the here and now? Transport investments take time to deliver.
Those Governments, over many decades, were wrong. We have waited so long that we absolutely have to go ahead with it now. The west coast main line will have already reached capacity before the new high-speed line can be finished, and the costs now have to be borne in a downturn rather than during the growth years, when money was more plentiful.
It is right that we are putting our railways on a sustainable footing. They need investment and they need it for the long term. The burden cannot be taken by fare payers. Constant, year-on-year fare rises are utterly unsustainable; they will ultimately force people off the railways and bring down revenues. Governments have found it much easier to just patch up old lines and force passengers to deal with the same old problems and pass on the cost of an inefficient system. That was a terrible waste of the boom years.
I am delighted that by the end of this Parliament, Liberal Democrats in government will have made some of the tough decisions to make sure that we will have the efficient and sustainable railway network we deserve, but it has to be affordable to people. I hope that over the coming months we can reach an agreement with our coalition colleagues to prevent an RPI plus 3% rate; otherwise, a long-term investment could be utterly undone as we drive people from our railways irrevocably.
Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)
I am grateful for this opportunity to speak. Like many colleagues, I wish the Secretary of State well, although he is not in his seat at the moment. It was great to see him back at the Dispatch Box. In taking interventions from Opposition Members, he was generous, flexible and accommodating—characteristics that he did not always demonstrate in his previous role.
This debate is simple for me. Although the railways are a complicated issue, the fundamental question is, who will pick up the tab of improving our railways? I am pretty disappointed by this debate because it is almost blatantly politically opportunistic. This is such a serious issue and it affects so many of our consumers and constituents that we should have more grace than to bat it about in this way and try to score cheap political points.
The answer to who will pick up the tab is, ultimately, the taxpayer. If we all agree that the railways need improvement and investment, and that the cash has to come from somewhere, ultimately the taxpayer has to pay the bill. The question is how to strike the balance between the ordinary taxpayer and the individual taxpayer who makes use of the service and rides on the trains. I put it to the House that someone working in the former coalfields of Sherwood, where rail services are pretty sparse, who earns less than £20,000 a year should not be put under pressure to pay taxes to give a banker who lives in Surrey a subsidised ride into the City. That is a difficult problem to solve, but we have to get the balance right between the ordinary taxpayer and the commuter. I am not sure that we have got the balance right today.
Standing at the Dispatch Box today, the Secretary of State inherits a situation that I do not envy: he comes to his role in the middle of a global financial crunch; he inherits a railway system that has faced enormous under-investment from a series of Governments; he faces the global price of energy going through the roof; and he has inherited a deficit from the previous Government that is difficult to solve.
Caroline Lucas
The hon. Gentleman talks about the importance of getting the right balance. Does he think the right balance has been struck given that, since rail privatisation, there has been a 7% drop in the cost of motoring and a 17% rise in rail fares?
Mr Spencer
I do not know what sort of car the hon. Lady drives, but I certainly have not seen a 7% drop in the cost of my motoring. I do not think we have got the balance right at the moment, but we have heard a series of speeches by Opposition Members about how nationalisation could improve the railways. I wonder whether people’s memories are so short that they forget how poor British Rail was. The Government who privatised the railways did not do it because British Rail was so fantastic.
Mr Spencer
I would be very grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I accept that this is a complicated issue, but when British Rail ran the railways it was not a panacea or a fantastic system. There were enormous delays for commuters, and the railway carriages were cramped. The service provided to commuters was shocking.
We could argue that there has not been enough progress, which I accept to a certain extent. Like the Secretary of State, I travel on the midland main line. It seems simple to say that capacity on that line could be improved just by making the trains a little longer, but the situation is much more complicated than that. The trains are already too long for people who want to get out of certain carriages at Loughborough station, so they have to move down the train to get off. Enormous investment is required in the midland main line, which is one of the most under-invested railway lines in the country, and I am delighted that the Government are putting in the cash to improve it by moving electrification further up towards the midlands and Yorkshire. It has been a long time coming.
I return to my constituents in Sherwood, who are not blessed with wonderful railway connections. If a resident of the town of Ollerton is employed in the city of Nottingham, their only option is to use buses or get in the car and drive. Public transport provision in my constituency is shockingly poor, and with the exception of the town of Hucknall, railway provision is pretty much non-existent. A taxpayer in Ollerton has to get in their car, for which they have paid road tax, and fund their journey by paying for petrol and the tax on it. They drive to the city of Nottingham and pay the workplace parking levy introduced by the Labour-controlled city council to earn their wage to pay taxes to support a banker in Surrey by cheapening his journey into the City of London. To someone working in Sherwood and earning twenty thousand quid, that does not seem acceptable. We sometimes need a bit of a reality check. I have heard a lot of complaints from colleagues in the south-east. I understand that they feel under pressure because of the increases in the cost of their rail tickets, but there is not a great deal of sympathy from hard-pressed, hard-working people in the coalfields of Nottinghamshire who are on low wages.
How will we solve the problem? Frankly, I am not sure that I have all the answers, but I would be delighted to work with the Secretary of State and the transport team to try to solve it. I believe that the answer is for the price of railway tickets to creep up, so that people can adapt and adjust, and for us to find ways of being more efficient. My hon. Friend the Member for Northampton South (Mr Binley) talked about efficiency savings, which will be the key to solving the problem. We must not only make use of taxpayers’ money for investment but find ways of spending it in the most efficient way possible. It is not tolerable or acceptable to my hard-working, tax-paying constituents that they have to keep dipping their hand in their pocket only for that money to be wasted rather than spent in the most efficient possible manner. If efficiencies are made, they will be able to benefit when they make use of the trains if they have the opportunity to come to London or to commute across Nottinghamshire. They cannot keep paying indefinitely without efficiency savings.
Probably the most shocking statistic that I have heard today is the comparison between the cost of flying and using rail. It is now cheaper to fly from Edinburgh to London than it is to go on the train. It seems bonkers that we find ourselves in that position, but it demonstrates how efficient the private sector can be in providing air journeys.
Caroline Lucas
The hon. Gentleman’s point is utterly specious. That situation has nothing to do with the effectiveness of a privatised airline and everything to do with the fact that airline fuel is subsidised whereas other fuel is not. If we subsidise domestic flights, it is not surprising that railways will be more expensive. Will he follow through on the logic of his argument and say that the Government will consider getting rid of the subsidy on domestic flight fuel?
Mr Spencer
I certainly think that we should examine how railways fund their fuel and energy supplies, and we are considering electrifying lines so that they are more efficient. I know that the hon. Lady is talking about aviation fuel, but I make the point that some rail lines, such as the midland main line, run on diesel rather than electricity. I am sure that the carbon footprint of those journeys will be of interest to her, and I wholly accept that we should continue to examine the matter.
I cannot reiterate enough the importance of getting the balance right between the commuter paying and the taxpayer paying. It is easy to forget that hard-working people doing fairly low-paid jobs are under equal pressure and also have to pay for transport to work. It is wrong to suggest that we can simply reduce rail fares.
I was aghast at some of the comments of my Liberal colleague the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert), who is no longer in his place. He said that cutting the price of some rail tickets was Liberal Democrat policy. I hope that when the Minister responds, he will assure us, as a Liberal Democrat member of the Government, that the Liberal Democrat policy and the Government’s policy are fairly closely aligned. In the land of buttercups, rainbows and daffodils where my colleague seems to live, things do not seem to balance out as I understand them in the real world.
I look forward to the Minister’s response and hope that as the Secretary of State settles into his role he will consider the whole country, not just the commuters. They are obviously under pressure as they have to pay for their tickets, but he should also consider the hard-working taxpayers.They do not have a lot of spare cash and cannot keep dipping into their pockets for it.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
People in my constituency have simply had enough of the rising cost of public transport, and the latest above-inflation rail fare increase is just about the last straw. Worried Brighton residents repeatedly tell me that they are already suffering from below-average earnings and simply cannot afford the proposed increases. As I mentioned earlier, one man told me how he had to give in his notice at his job in London because he simply cannot afford to get there. Now he is unemployed because he could not afford his rail fare.
Much has been said today about the impact of spiralling ticket prices on cash-strapped commuters, who are rightly furious that trains continue to be overcrowded and unreliable as well as overpriced; that public transport options are not fully integrated; that smart ticketing is not the norm; that trains are still too hot in the summer and too cold in the winter; and that the toilets do not work, or are simply non-existent on some train services from Brighton. That is a serious equalities issue. I have been contacted by many Brighton residents who want to be able to use the train but have health problems or are elderly. The fact that there are not toilets on the trains means that they can no longer use them. As a daily commuter between London and Brighton, I know only too well how accurate many of those complaints are. When we urgently need rail to play a role in reducing greenhouse gas emissions across the transport sector and contributing to improved air quality, the system should be better.
Fares should be managed as part of an overall strategy of making public transport more integrated, more comprehensive and more affordable, helping people to leave their cars at home and providing an attractive alternative to flying for longer journeys within the UK. Yet, since privatisation, the cost of train travel has risen by 17% in real terms compared with a 7% drop in the cost of motoring. Those higher fares mean that that gap will now widen. Moreover, the rail fare increases announced a few weeks ago represent an unacceptable tax on rail commuters, given that the percentage increase above the 1% written into the franchise agreements flows directly to the Treasury.
I welcome today’s motion as a step in the right direction, but I support the suggestion of the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) that fares should not be allowed to rise at all—if anything, they should come down. I regret that there is no Liberal Democrat amendment on the Order Paper to that end. However, we need to go much further. The controversy over the west coast main line franchise shows that what people want most is some kind of stability on the railways. They are not impressed by one unaccountable company snatching control from another with promises that they may never deliver. Nor are people happy that the cost to the public purse of running the railways has risen by a factor of between 2 and 3 times since privatisation.
The hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) has already mentioned the report “Rebuilding Rail”, which I warmly commend to the House. It makes cogent arguments explaining why, under privatisation, there are much higher costs to the public. As the hon. Gentleman said, they include higher interest payments to keep Network Rail’s debts off the Government balance sheet; costs arising as a result of the fragmentation of the rail system into many organisations; profit margins of complex tiers of contractors and subcontractors; and dividends to private investors.
Caroline Lucas
I will not, simply because of time.
The only way to sort out the mess and waste, the rising fares and overcrowding is to take back control of the railways. I am not afraid to call that nationalisation.
It is time to make public transport a public service again, and to nail the myth that buying back assets that have been sold off would be too expensive. A step-by-step approach would allow the railway’s assets to be reacquired for the public at minimal cost and with substantial ongoing savings over time.
Caroline Lucas
I have just remembered that, so I am delighted to let the hon. Gentleman speak.
Mr Binley
I am most grateful. Is the hon. Lady really saying that she wants to return to a nationalised British Rail? Is she also saying that privatisation is bad and that all the other privatised sectors have not cut costs? Or is the rail sector the only one that has not? How does she explain that?
Caroline Lucas
I refer the hon. Gentleman to Deutsche Bahn, SNCF and several railways in Europe that run perfectly good public sector railways with much lower fares than ours. I am not necessarily saying that we should go back to British Rail; I am saying that we should learn from that experience. We might in future have much greater democratic control, with passengers involved in the decision making. Far more of running the railways might be delegated to regional level. We do not have to go back to something—we can go forward to something and learn from the best of what is happening in many European countries and in the rest of the world.
The proposal that “Rebuilding Rail” and others are considering is a more or less cost-free process, whereby when the franchises expire or companies fail to meet the criteria, they could be acquired on a case-by-case basis. New rolling stock could be directly procured, making the process far cheaper than the current leasing arrangements, and fair price regulation could be introduced to bring down the cost of leasing existing rolling stock from its private sector owners.
We also need to bring Network Rail’s debt back on to the Government’s balance sheet. I appreciate that the Government will blanche at the very thought, but doing that would reflect the reality of the situation and result in much lower interest payments.
According to calculations from “Rebuilding Rail”, reuniting the railways under public ownership could save more than £1 billion a year of taxpayers’ money. To put that figure in context, the money that we would have saved if rail had not been privatised could have been used to cut fares by up to 18%. The matter needs to be properly examined, and I am deeply upset that the Conservative ideological position means that the proposal is dismissed simply because it contains the words “nationalisation” or “public ownership.”
Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con)
I think I am following the hon. Lady’s logic. However, if the perfect answer for the general public is to renationalise the railway, why is there such a large petition about the west coast main line, which supports the continuation of a private company’s running that route?
Caroline Lucas
I imagine that that is because there was no properly public option on the ballot paper, as there was with the east coast main line, which was taken back into public ownership. Plenty of polls show massive support for bringing the railway back into public ownership. A majority of people want that. I suggest that the hon. Gentleman consider that.
In Europe, passenger rail services are much cheaper and services are better, and between 80% and 100% of train services are run by publicly owned companies. Those two facts are not unconnected. Despite what some opponents claim, there is no EU requirement for the railways to be privatised. Other European countries have accommodated EU legislation, while largely or entirely retaining public ownership of their railways, by ensuring that there is separation between the body that is responsible for passenger train operations and the subsidiary company that is responsible for capacity allocation and access charges.
The Government should know that there is a problem, since the McNulty review, commissioned by Labour but delivered to the coalition, clearly highlighted excessive costs in the UK rail industry. That report also showed that privatisation’s promise of innovation simply has not materialised. Both McNulty and the Transport Committee noted that, in fact, innovation has been actively discouraged by the disjointed and complex nature of the privatised railways.
Genuine, at-risk private investment, as opposed to private capital expenditure that is underwritten by the Government, makes an insignificant contribution to the railways, representing about 1% of investment. That is substantially less than the additional costs that arise from a privatised structure. Nor has efficiency improved in the hands of the private sector—despite often being cited as another major benefit of selling off public services. In fact, there has been an increased number of administrators and managers, as well as duplication of functions in different private companies, and staff who have to be employed to ensure that everyone talks to one another and knows what is going on. It has been estimated that the cost of those back-room staff has increased by 56% since privatisation, measured per train kilometre—money that would have been better spent keeping rail fares affordable and investing in real improvements.
Britain was once world famous for its trail-blazing and hugely successful railway, but today, privatisation is failing passengers, the economy and the environment. Unless it returns to public ownership, Britain will struggle on with a disjointed, complex and often dysfunctional railway system that regularly makes commuting a miserable experience and puts us to shame internationally.
Lineside Vegetation (Network Rail Policy)
Caroline Lucas Excerpts(11 years, 10 months ago)
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Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
I thank the hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) for securing this important debate because, like many others, this is a big issue in my constituency. Many people are deeply concerned about the fact that there seems to be no way of getting real dialogue with Network Rail, or proper redress when things go wrong.
I want to raise two points. First, the hon. Gentleman and other hon. Members have stressed the importance of Network Rail’s consulting residents, and it is important that they do so in an up-front way. A problem in Brighton was that it circulated a letter to some, but not all, residents, the headline of which was something like “Vegetation Management”. That sounds like a nice bit of pruning from time to time; it does not sound like clear-felling trees, which is what it ended up being. The letter was rather misleading for people when they first saw it, and the consultation must be very clear in its intent.
Secondly, I have a question for the Minister. Where is the real oversight of the impact of Network Rail’s policies? A few weeks ago, I submitted a parliamentary question to the Department for Transport, asking what information the Department holds in relation to things such as environmental assessments and community consultations. I also asked what estimate there was of the number of trees that had been felled in the past five years, and during bird breeding seasons; on how many occasions British Transport police had investigated complaints about tree-felling; and what estimate had been made of the total area of trees to be felled in the coming five years. I had a very short reply, which essentially said that the Department does not keep that kind of information because it is the business of a private company.
I then asked similar questions of Network Rail and received a very unhelpful letter, which pointed out things such as:
“trees grow in soil, which is the naturally occurring residue from thousands of years of weathering of the underlying strata.”
Most of us know that trees grow in soil and that, from time to time, for serious safety reasons, they need to be felled, but the letter did not answer the underlying questions about when and why Network Rail takes decisions on whether to prune or cut down, how often it plans to do that in the future and the level of consultation it plans to hold with local residents. For many people, particularly in urban areas, the trees around the railway are a vital part of the green space, and they care about them deeply.
Notwithstanding the fact that safety must take priority, I am concerned that Network Rail is acting far too swiftly—from a cost perspective and not from a genuine safety perspective in many cases. I would like to hear from the Minister what action we can take to try to hold Network Rail to greater account.
Sustainable Transport
Caroline Lucas Excerpts(13 years, 3 months ago)
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Norman Baker
We are open to bids and we have no preconceptions about what those bids would include. Providing that they demonstrate that they create growth and cut carbon, we are open to suggestions. As the hon. Gentleman knows, under this Government the Secretary of State has been personally involved in moving on plug-in places. We see that as a key element of the future of transport in our country.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
Public transport in this country remains more expensive than almost anywhere else in Europe, yet the service that people get is one of the worst. What would the Minister tell my constituents in Brighton, Pavilion who struggle daily with poor, expensive and crowded rail services?
Norman Baker
I am familiar with Brighton, as the hon. Lady knows. I would say that the public transport system in her constituency is extremely good. Brighton and Hove Bus and Coach Company is one of the best bus companies in the country, and Southern has invested recently in new rolling stock and is one of the better train companies. The frequency of services will be further enhanced by the Thameslink programme and the Government are committed to 2,100 new railway carriages, so people in Brighton and on the south coast can have confidence that the public transport system is serving them well.
Oral Answers to Questions
Caroline Lucas Excerpts(13 years, 5 months ago)
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Mr Hammond
The question was about the South London line and my answer was that I had not had any recent discussions with the Mayor of London on that issue. I do, of course, have regular discussions with the Mayor of London on all sorts of subjects and will continue to do so. I suspect that the right hon. Gentleman is out of touch with the mood of the British public, who are concerned to make the best possible fist of Britain’s bid for the 2018 World cup.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
4. What steps his Department is taking to promote cycling as a means of transport.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Norman Baker)
We set out our commitment to sustainable local travel, including cycling, in our decision to establish a local sustainable transport fund.
The spending review made available £560 million over four years. It will be for local partnerships—local transport authorities working with their communities—to identify the right solutions for their areas in bidding for funding. Bids involving cycling will be well placed to capitalise on the objectives of the fund to help create growth and cut carbon.
Caroline Lucas
The axing of the highly cost-effective body, Cycling England, wiped out the arrangement whereby money was effectively channelled into school and workplace projects that are run by charities such as Sustrans and CTC. What is the Minister’s plan B to ensure that cycling charities and campaigning groups, such as those in my constituency, can continue to work with schools and businesses to deliver cycling’s many benefits? How will he know if that plan B is working?
Norman Baker
I am happy to say that Bikeability, one of the main schemes delivered by Cycling England, has been retained at a national level. Funding for it will be top-sliced from the local sustainable transport fund. We are in regular contact with organisations such as Sustrans to ensure that they are plugged in. I assure the hon. Lady that bids to the local sustainable transport fund will be regarded more favourably if they have involvement from voluntary community groups, such as the one that she has described.
Oral Answers to Questions
Caroline Lucas Excerpts(13 years, 11 months ago)
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Mike Penning
My hon. Friend knows that I am personally aware of the problems at the Dartford crossing, having used it for many years. The £40 million net that we recover from the crossing is a significant income, but we need to consider technology that is being used in other parts of the world, particularly in Australia, so that we can remove the barriers and increase the speed at which traffic comes through while also picking up the revenue that the country desperately needs.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
3. What information his Department holds on the effect of industrial action involving airlines on the number of passengers on flights operated by those airlines.
The Minister of State, Department for Transport (Mrs Theresa Villiers)
The Department does not routinely monitor or hold information on airline passenger loads. However, most publicly listed UK airlines, including British Airways, regularly publish traffic and capacity statistics.
Caroline Lucas
Is the right hon. Lady aware of testimony from British Airways staff that British Airways has run commercially unviable flights in periods of industrial action, with low to zero numbers of passengers, to give the impression that it is unaffected by industrial action? Will you condemn any carrier for such environmentally unsustainable behaviour and investigate any report from BA staff?