Direct Payments to Farmers (Legislative Continuity) Bill

Debate between Caroline Johnson and Ian Paisley

2nd reading & 2nd reading: House of Commons
Tuesday 21st January 2020 Commons Chamber

[Dr Johnson]

I absolutely agree with my right hon. Friend. The challenges in farming are certainly very different from the uplands to the lowlands and to the flat areas of some of the eastern counties, and we need schemes that reflect that without their being so overly complex that nobody knows which ones are right for them.

We have £3.5 billion, which comes in part from the UK Government budget and in part from the EU— although one should perhaps reflect on the fact that the EU money coming back to us was probably ours to start with. I have a few questions for the Minister. We have committed to keeping the budget the same in this Parliament. Is that the total budget that would have come from the UK Government and the EU, or is it just from the UK budget? It is likely that costs will increase over time—tractors and fertiliser become more expensive. Will the money come in the form of a cash budget, or will it increase in line with inflation over the next four years?

I also have a question about the currency. Today, €1 is worth 85 pence, but it might not be in September. Normally, the budget is set in euros and, in September, the currency is reviewed and the money for British farmers converted into pounds. This will affect our farmers’ costs and competitiveness, so if, in September, it looks like they will receive less as a result of the currency changes between now and then, will that be adjusted accordingly?

I understand that when the CAP is abolished under the withdrawal agreement payments to farmers will be exempt from state aid rules, provided they are equivalent to the CAP. How would the currency fluctuations affect that rule?

I wish now to look at the different types of payments that are made. As I have said, 80% goes broadly to acreage, but 10% of people get 50% of that money, and the smallest 20% of farms get only 2% of the money. This fact is often published in the media. Indeed, £2.8 million is given to farmers in Westminster when there are no farms in Westminster. This does make it a less popular scheme, and it makes it very difficult for new entrants to farming—people who want to be farmers but who were not born into a farming family—and creates an increase in the drive for size of farms. That is why I welcome the changes that the Government are making. Their new schemes will be much more sensitive, because they will look at what the farmer delivers rather than how much land the farmer owns. That is a much more positive scheme.

Many of my constituents write to me almost every day with their concerns about the environment. This is something that the country can really get behind. They want farmers to produce good food and they want the environment to be supported, so giving farmers money on the basis of what they do, rather than on how much land they have, is a very positive change. Indeed, 96% of farms are run by families—combinations of parent, child and grandparent—who see themselves as generational custodians of the land, rather than the owners of property. They also care about ensuring that the land is well looked after and that the environment is cared for so that it can be a profitable and productive farm, producing great food in the next generation.

I know that my farmers locally in Sleaford and North Hykeham welcome the Government’s scheme to produce clean air, clean water, quality soil, biodiverse habitat and a beautiful rural environment and to continue all those things. None the less, I do have a couple of points on this matter, too. The first is about size and complexity. At the moment, one criticism of the scheme is that the money goes to the very richest farmers. If there is a plethora of different schemes—we recognise from the contributions made so far that there needs to be different schemes for different types of farming—or if they are too difficult to understand, only the largest farms with an office full of staff, who are able to weigh up the pros and cons of different schemes, will be in a position to take advantage of them. Farms run by small family combinations, or even a solitary farmer, will find it much more difficult to work out which scheme will work for them.

That is also true of the design of the schemes. For example, one of the laudable aims of the Government is to increase the accessibility of the countryside to the public. However, that is much easier for a huge landowner who does not live on their farm to achieve than it is for a farmer who lives in a very small farm and who may be suffering from the effects of rural crime and not really want people coming through their farmyard.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

I appreciate that the hon. Member has given way. She is making an absolutely excellent point about how these schemes work. I am sure that, like my farmers, farmers in her constituency will work out quite quickly which schemes benefit them the most. Does she agree that the key issue in this direct payments matter is to ensure a rebalancing of the relationship between the primary producer—the farmer—the supermarkets and the processors in between? If that relationship is right, farming really can flourish for all of our nation.

[Dr Johnson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. He is right that, for too long, farmers have not necessarily been treated fairly by all the supermarkets. The Groceries Code Adjudicator and some voluntary schemes by some of the supermarkets are improving the situation, but I do agree that there is still a long way to go to ensure that farmers receive a fair proportion of the reward for food production.

Will the Minister elaborate on what guidance and help will be available to smaller farmers to ensure that they can easily understand the scheme options, rather than having to go through lots of government papers?

Finally, I want to echo a couple of points that have been made on the multi-year settlements. Minette Batters, head of the National Farmers Union, and some Members in the Chamber today have talked about the importance of a multi-year settlement. This Bill does great things in ensuring that farmers know what they will get this year, but, as yet, although we know the size of the envelope, we do not know how the money will be targeted for the year after. When designing environmental schemes, I would encourage the Minister to design longer-term ones as far as possible, because if a farmer is to plant trees or plough up fields to create a meadow, they need to know that that will be there for a long time, and that they will not have to change it again, or be incentivised to plough that meadow up again in two years’ time.

Finance (No. 2) Bill

Debate between Caroline Johnson and Ian Paisley

2nd reading: House of Commons
Monday 11th December 2017 Commons Chamber

[Dr Johnson]

It is indeed true that slow broadband speeds can be a challenge for people running businesses in rural areas.

The freezing of fuel duty means that the average car driver in the UK is £850 better off since 2010, which is not an insignificant amount, while the average van driver is £2,100 better off. Therefore, through this measure, the Government are supporting hard-working families and small businesses, particularly in rural areas.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

The economy of our kingdom largely turns on the wheels of white van man. The initiative the hon. Lady speaks in support of is critical to ensuring that our economy moves forward. I would welcome further reductions in that tax.

[Dr Johnson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention.

Finally, I welcome the £668,000 the Government have given through LIBOR grant to the International Bomber Command Centre in my constituency. Bomber Command No. 166 Squadron suffered the highest losses of any allied forces unit during world war two, with an attrition rate of 44%. The centre will open next year, the year of RAF100, which is a good time for it to open in terms of remembrance. It will serve as a point for the recognition and remembrance of the sacrifice of people from 62 nations around the globe, 57,861 of whom lost their lives saving the future for us and our children and grandchildren.

The International Bomber Command Centre will record for the future the memories of those who served in Bomber Command. They include people such as 92-year-old William Leslie Anderson, my constituent and relative through marriage. He served as a flight engineer in No. 166 Squadron. A flight engineer works not only on the planes on the ground to ensure that they are fit for take-off, but with the pilot throughout the flight and then again preparing the aeroplane once it is back on the ground. People such as Mr Anderson worked hard to secure our future, and it is important that we think about the future of those who will go ahead. That is why I reject completely the Labour party’s plans to spend, spend, spend. It is our children, our children’s children, and our children’s children’s children who would pay the debt interest on such ever-increasing spending plans.

We have asked Labour Members so many times today—perhaps 25 or 26 times—how much their plans would cost, but still we have had no answer—[Interruption.] I appreciate that we have had an answer. We have been told that we can look it up on the internet, but I would like to know which page and document to look at, please, because I have not been able to find it.