Energy Prices

Debate between Caroline Flint and Albert Owen

Wednesday 14th January 2015 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Flint]

As I have said in the House before, we will give the regulator a power and a duty to ensure that when wholesale costs fall, it will make the decision—as is only right—to ensure that those reductions are passed on to consumers. I should have thought that the Secretary of State would welcome that. As was pointed out by my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne), Ofgem—which I understand the Secretary of State supports—has a duty and a responsibility to protect consumers, and one way of protecting consumers is to ensure that they are paying a fair price for their energy. I see absolute clarity in our policy, but no clarity on the Government Benches.

That brings me to the third question. This is where things really begin to get interesting. Why have suppliers failed to pass on these savings? A number of different explanations—although they might more accurately be called excuses—have been provided, both by energy companies themselves and by their friends in the Government.

The first excuse that we have been given is that, because there is a gap between the point at which an energy company buys its energy and the point at which that energy is actually delivered, a company might be buying energy 18 months or a year ahead of time. That is true, but wholesale energy costs have been falling for over a year, so even if companies bought their energy a year or more in advance, bills should still be coming down by now. That explanation simply does not hold.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

I was very disappointed by what the Secretary of State said a moment ago. Whenever I raise this issue in interventions with him, he hides behind the regulator and says, “We need a strong, independent regulator to ensure that consumers’ interests are protected.” I suggest that a review in the hands of a strong regulator is the way to protect their interests. I am sure that the Secretary of State agrees with that. He should not try to score silly party political points.

[Caroline Flint]

Labour Members certainly agree with that, as do others, including the CBI. Energy should be a managed market. It is different from other things that we may buy, because it is essential to life. It keeps our homes warm, it keeps the lights on, and it keeps our hospitals and our businesses going. In this area it is absolutely clear, and I would have thought there would be some agreement from those on the Government Benches about this, because they have welcomed the CMA review. Why would they welcome a review if they thought everything was hunky-dory? Clearly there is something wrong in the way this market has been working, and that is why we have risen to the challenge to do something about it.

Energy Company Licence Revocation

Debate between Caroline Flint and Albert Owen

Wednesday 3rd September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that in addition—I repeat, in addition—to strengthening the powers of the regulator, we need some simple consumer protection law so we can make reference to it and do not have to have 18-month inquiries? People are getting ripped off every single winter and these often long inquiries do not help those people.

[Caroline Flint]

I absolutely agree. One of the problems with the lengths of these inquiries, and a reason why we need greater clarity—and, I would suggest, greater deterrent factors within the conditions under which these companies operate—is that time gets lost. By the time all the lawyers have got together and everything else—and by the time, perhaps, that the company is found guilty of the offence—we lose momentum in making the change that needs to happen.

The timing of the inquiries is important, but a culture change is also needed. We need to address whether the inquiries are hampered by the energy companies responding too quickly by setting their lawyers on to the matter and deterring effective action and preventing justice from being seen to be done.

It is in a spirit of constructiveness that we present our proposals today. We believe that they are eminently sensible, and we hope that the Government will offer the same constructive approach as we have offered on numerous occasions in the past. The best way of protecting consumers is not to provide a redress framework—much needed though that is—but to prevent companies from ripping people off in the first place. At the moment, too many energy companies operate at the margins of what the rules allow, because they know that they will often not be caught. Even if they are caught, the penalties do not present enough of a deterrent. Too often, energy companies seem to view the regulator’s fines as a cost of doing business, and not as a warning that they should get their act together.

Information provided to me in answer to a written parliamentary question shows that, since 2001, Ofgem has issued at least 31 fines totalling at least £90 million. On top of that are the informal cases that the regulator has dealt with, in which, even though no formal fine or notice was issued, action was taken and in some cases financial measures ensued. If we were to add on those cases, the total would be in excess of £100 million. For companies with annual global turnovers running into tens of billions, that is still some way from the maximum fine that the regulator could have imposed. Nevertheless, it is clearly not an insignificant amount.

Energy Price Freeze

Debate between Caroline Flint and Albert Owen

Wednesday 6th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Flint (Don Valley) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House calls on the Government to freeze electricity and gas prices for 20 months whilst legislation is introduced to ring-fence the generation businesses of the vertically integrated energy companies from their supply businesses, to require all electricity generators and suppliers to trade their power via an open exchange, to establish a tough new regulator with the power to force energy suppliers to pass on price cuts when wholesale costs fall, and to put all over-75-year-olds on the cheapest tariff.

At the heart of this debate is a question about whether we believe that people have been overcharged and let down by a regulator that has failed to do its job, and that to win back the trust of the British people we need to mend this broken market. Today we put before the House a motion that proposes two measures to provide real help now through a temporary 20-month price freeze and by putting all those over the age of 75 on the cheapest tariff, as well as deep structural reforms to the way that this market works for the future. These are the measures that we will take if we win the next election, but these are measures that this Government could take now, for which they would have our full support.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

In those structural reforms, does my right hon. Friend consider that Ofgem, the regulator, would have responsibility for those who are not on the mains gas grid?

[Caroline Flint]

My hon. Friend coined the term “energy island” to describe his island constituency of Anglesey and I know he takes a keen interest. We have already said in the House and elsewhere that we believe that those who are off-grid should come under our new regulator. Of those people who are off-grid, only 10% rely on oil for both their heating and their light. The rest have oil for heating but rely on electricity, so our price freeze would have an impact on many off-grid customers as well.

--- Later in debate ---

[Caroline Flint]

Beyond the customary theatrics that sometimes dominate debate in this House, for which we should all admit our responsibility from time to time, I would say that if one looks back over Hansard it is clear that for the past two years, whether at DECC questions, in Opposition day debates or in urgent questions, I have been putting forward measures to reform this market, including a break-up of the way in which the companies run their generation and retail sides. We have said in this House—I will obviously send this information to the Secretary of State—that we need to create, as we did with the networks, a separation in relation to the way in which the companies run things. That does not necessarily mean having two companies, but it does mean having two different legal entities. The Secretary of State is, in effect, saying, “Oh, it’s all right—it’s fine.” We have made this proposal time and again, and it has been reported in the press time and again. It is unfortunate that he lets himself down with that sort of intervention.

[Albert Owen]

The Secretary of State should read the transcript of last week’s Energy and Climate Change Committee meeting with the big six, at which the chief executive officer of E.ON, the only one who bothered to turn up, said that he had no problem with separating retail from generation.

[Caroline Flint]

We will be publishing a green paper that will expand further on our energy market reforms. Of course we welcome a discussion with the big six and others about how we take this forward, but we are very clear that we have to stop the cosy relationship between the generation and retail sides. It cannot be allowed to go on in the way it has.

Energy Prices

Debate between Caroline Flint and Albert Owen

Wednesday 19th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Flint]

Obviously we will explore that in a little more detail, but I think it is clear that those who have mis-sold a package must pay back to people what they have lost through that, and must pay them compensation. It is clear that the fines are not working, because every time a consumer organisation conducts another survey, it finds more evidence of mis-selling. I think that this is quite straightforward, and I do not see why we need to go on talking about it. Let us just get on with it.

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the Energy and Climate Change Committee, of which I am a member, should be praised for initiating the current inquiries? Already four of the big six have decided to stop doorstep selling, and we need to push that further. The Secretary of State knows that these companies are on the run; now he must put the boot into the big six, and ensure that our customers receive the compensation that they deserve. We need not measly words, but action.

[Caroline Flint]

My hon. Friend is entirely right, and I pay due respect to all the members of the Select Committee. They have done fantastic work on our behalf, highlighting some of the problems caused by the operation of the energy market and energy companies. It is about time that the Government stood up to the energy giants, because this is not good enough. I do not know how energy chief executives can go on television and brazen it out, talking about what their companies are doing for customers, when 80% of people are not on the best deal for them, and mis-selling appears to have reached the level that is being discussed in the Chamber and beyond. It is a disgrace, and the very least that those companies should do is fess up and pay back.