Corporate Tax Avoidance

Bob Stewart Excerpts

Monday 7th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Ian Swales]

The hon. Lady makes a powerful point. I will say more about that later, but I agree with her that we need more resource in the whole area of enforcement.

I was talking about my experience and how we would never have set up legal entities in countries just to avoid tax. Now, News International has more than 150 companies in tax havens. Transfer pricing, management fees, royalties, patent, copyright and interest payments are all ways to move money. The moving of whole businesses and headquarters to new jurisdictions is also becoming much more common.

Let us remember that companies that are prepared to go to elaborate lengths to avoid corporation tax may seek to avoid other taxes, too. If the BBC was making wide use of tax-avoiding personal service contracts for staff, we can be sure that some private sector companies are doing so, too. At a recent Public Accounts Committee hearing, Amazon told me that it raises UK VAT and pays it to the taxman, but it is a Luxembourg company; it also claimed that it did not even know the value of its sales to the UK. Someone wrote to me after the hearing confirming that they could not get a VAT invoice for their new iPad, bought for business purposes. Amazon said that

“we are unable to provide a VAT number as we are registered overseas”.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way and appreciate the opportunity to speak on something about which I know little. If a company does not know the value of its sales in the country, I think that HMRC should estimate them, charge corporation tax on that amount, and let the company argue against it to prove that HMRC was wrong. We would then get better corporate tax returns, would we not?

[Ian Swales]

That is an interesting idea and I thank the hon. Gentleman for the suggestion. HMRC needs to look much more closely at companies that have that type of business model. I agree that we need to start making some presumptions.

--- Later in debate ---

[Karl MᶜCartney]

My hon. Friend will be pleased to know that I agree with him. I will mention PricewaterhouseCoopers shortly.

The objective of business, any business, is not ostensibly to do good or to pursue corporate social responsibility; it is to do business and make money for the owners and/or shareholders. Directors of all small, medium, large and multinational companies have a fiduciary responsibility to maximise gains for that company’s owners, including minimising the tax paid. Any diversion of company management from that objective is wrong as a matter of law and dangerous as we move forward in the 21st century.

John Christensen of the campaign group Tax Justice Network made a true claim when he said that the figures highlight that tax avoidance by large businesses has become a “much bigger issue” over the past 10 years because of the “enhanced relationship” policy put in place. That policy was put in place by the then Labour Prime Minister, Tony Blair, and his then Chancellor and ultimately successor as Labour Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown).

The problem is perhaps exacerbated in that we have a very complicated tax system. The previous Labour Government did nothing to uncomplicate matters. In fact, they set up a whole new industry making it more complex. What we need as a country, and for us to remain an economic powerhouse on the world stage, is much greater tax simplicity and lower tax rates.

I am pleased that the Government are consulting on a general anti-abuse rule, the GAAR, targeted at artificial and abusive tax avoidance schemes, with a view to bringing forward legislation later this year. Echoing my earlier statement, Mary Monfries, head of tax policy and regulation at PricewaterhouseCoopers, has also been quoted in the media saying with regard to our tax system that “simplicity is key”. She described complexity as a

“key problem with the current tax model”,

adding that the GAAR should

“help to act as a disincentive”

against

“abusive, extreme tax avoidance arrangements”.

But I also believe that some of my colleagues are being disingenuous with the great British public in that the vast majority of multinationals mentioned are not breaking any laws and, as the Government make the law, it is their own and our fault if companies use the rules in place to minimise their tax. Our tax legislation is huge and very complex, so any shortcomings are down to Government failure to create and implement the right tax framework.

The multinational aspects of tax collection and avoidance can be solved only by international bodies working together. That will not be easy for any of my ministerial colleagues to achieve I am sure, but as for any avoidance by UK companies, we do not perhaps need this debate now, as the GAAR legislation will, we trust, come into force during the next tax year. Surely that is the mechanism to stop so-called unacceptable tax avoidance that the hon. Member for Redcar seeks to debate this evening. Many private sector individuals in business may view this debate and other pronouncements by some hon. Members as politicians just diverting public opinion away from their own shortcomings by encouraging media interest in the tax avoidance issue. As politicians we organise the rules and therefore as long as what the companies do is legal, morality surely does not come into it much. Google, The Guardian, Amazon and others are perhaps insulated in that they have little direct competition in the services they provide, so no incentive to make voluntary tax payments as they have avoided such sizeable payments for a number of years. But Starbucks is now paying reportedly quite sizeable sums of voluntary tax, not for moral reasons but to protect its brand and customer loyalty—that is, to protect its profits.

[Bob Stewart]

Surely if a company is making a voluntary contribution of £10 million a year, it must be making very much more than that, and be doing that only because it hopes to get off the hook, and that is something that we must legislate on.

[Karl MᶜCartney]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. I agree that such a company is probably making a lot more in profit than £10 million for the next two years.

A potential solution is perhaps not to hound companies that legitimately use the tax laws as they are, but to make the tax system such that there is no benefit in tax avoidance—that is, reduce corporation tax rates and the complexity of the system, whilst at the same time cracking down hard on those who are abusing the tax system. This, for those in the Chamber who are technically minded, is known as the old carrot and stick approach.

We want multinationals to headquarter in the UK. Frankly, I cannot complain if they organise themselves to pay the lowest legitimate tax that they can. What I am more interested in is that they bring their jobs and spending power to our shores. It fills our restaurants, houses and shops. It provides secondary support service employment across a plethora of sectors in Great Britain.

Let us not be negative this evening, because that will put businesses off coming here, which is the exact opposite of what we want. We want the whole world to know that Great Britain is a superb place to start up, locate or relocate a business, and with the Conservatives in government we continue to be Great Britain. We can all help to send out the message that we welcome international businesses—even Starbucks, Amazon, PayPal and Google—to our shores and would like them to bring more of their business to the UK. We are a country that is determined to drive down tax rates, as demonstrated by our recent corporation tax reductions, undoubtedly a feather in the jaunty cap of the Chancellor and the Treasury team. We are a great place to do business.

It is telling that employment tax brings in 5.4 times more revenue than corporate tax—£259 billion versus £48 billion—so let us focus on those things that create more sustainable jobs, the positives. One of the Government’s main roles is to make the UK the best country in the world to do business in. Everything else will be easier if we can achieve a massive influx of foreign companies moving their bases and thus employing more people here.

I believe that populist politics masquerading as morality is a Lib Dem trade mark that would inevitably lead us into a vicious spiral, one that is downward and certainly not a virtuous circle. We know that the Lib Dems are desperate to be popular. They often say anything on the doorstep, often expressing views that are diametrically opposed to those of their neighbours in order to garner votes, as anyone who has canvassed after them will know. That cheapness was amply demonstrated by their head of communications—presumably the paper clips organiser—who last month supposedly leaked instructions to Lib Dem Members of this House to monster the Conservatives, people like me and my fellow cuddly Conservative Back Benchers, in their vicious pre-Christmas briefing.

The Liberal Democrats might hanker after a yellow paradise of sand and yellow sun, but it is a very small yellow island they currently inhabit, surrounded by very deep and clear blue water. I think they know that it is likely to become a smaller island. They need to mature as members of the coalition Government. They need a dose of reality over the next two and half years. We are not some paradise or utopia—this is the real world.

I am conscious that my time is almost up and so will conclude. Of course all the Conservatives on the Government Benches want our country to have the most competitive corporate tax system of any major world economy. By doing so we will ensure that our country’s economic recovery will be private sector-led, but we expect those corporate taxes to be paid, regardless of where any larger international firms that do business here might be based or have business operations. A need for fairness and reasonableness from both sides seems to be most apt. In that respect, I am particularly pleased that the Chancellor recently announced extra investment in the part of the Inland Revenue that tackles tax avoidance by multinational companies.