85 Bill Esterson debates involving the Department of Health and Social Care

Wed 6th Jan 2021
Public Health
Commons Chamber
(Adjournment Debate)
Tue 8th Dec 2020
Wed 11th Nov 2020
Mon 19th Oct 2020

Covid-19 Update

Bill Esterson Excerpts
Tuesday 2nd February 2021

(3 years, 3 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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I would say to everybody that they should listen to the my hon. Friend, their local representative, and to all those who have looked at the impact of the vaccine. We can see that it saves lives and that it is safe to take. We can see that the rumours that have spread on the internet are just that—they are rumours, not facts. I would listen to local faith leaders too, from churches, mosques and synagogues right across the country, who are all uniting to say that we should take the jab when it is our turn. It is the right thing for you and it is the right thing for your community.

Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab) [V]
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The Health Secretary will understand the concern about the discovery of the South African variant in the borough of Sefton, but can he tell us what variant he referred to in relation to a number of cases in Liverpool? He knows that I have raised concern a number of times about the number of people who cannot afford to self-isolate or stay at home. That is even more important now with the spread of new variants and mutations. Will he tell me now that he is going to push his Cabinet colleagues to plug the gaps in financial support, so that everybody can play their part and stay at home to stop the spread of the virus?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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We have put in place the £500 support to ensure that everybody can afford to self-isolate. As for the South African variant that has been discovered in Southport, we are, with the local authority, undertaking very significant action to try to isolate it and any spread. It is vital that all members of the community play their part: stay at home and get a test when it is offered by the local authority. There is more information on the Sefton website. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Southport (Damien Moore), who was not able to get on the call list, with whom I have been corresponding on this matter. He, along with the hon. Gentleman, has been playing an important part.

The cases in Liverpool I mentioned were in fact raised in the local media and described by Liverpool City Council a couple of weeks ago. I included them for completeness to describe all those cases where we have seen a mutation, along with the 11 cases in the Bristol area that I also described, which have been set out in a scientific study from the University of Leicester today. We have been working very closely with Liverpool City Council and Bristol City Council on those two clusters, along with the councils of all those where a variant of concern, such as the South African variant, has been found. I hope that that is a complete enough answer and I am very happy to talk to the hon. Gentleman if he has any further questions.

Public Health

Bill Esterson Excerpts
Wednesday 6th January 2021

(3 years, 4 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab) [V]
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I want us to learn from what has happened since March, rather than saying no, because if this lockdown is to be effective, we have to look at the gaps that have not been plugged so far. I want to talk particularly about the up to 3 million self-employed people: freelancers, people who run their own businesses and people who changed jobs at the wrong time who have had little or no financial support. It has been a burning injustice since March that they have gone without, and it continues to be. The Chancellor should be coming to the House of Commons to describe how he is going to support these people who have been left behind. It is not fair to them and it is an injustice, but it is damaging economically too. They all have a contribution to make as the economy eventually recovers, and the stronger and healthier their finances are now, the better placed they and many other businesses will be to play their part when the time comes.

There are also health consequences. One characteristic of this crisis has been that people have not been able to afford to self-isolate—individual low-paid workers and the 3 million excluded people—because they have not had the support, whether that is sick pay for people who are employed, or a lack of access to furlough, to the self-employed scheme or often even to universal credit. People have not been able to afford to self-isolate when they have been contacted, and that is a big part of the reason that less than 20% of people who were supposed to self-isolate have so far done so. That must be fixed; to get the health benefits of the lockdown right, the financial side must be fixed at the same time.

It is therefore right that the expectations of the large retailers in returning £2 billion in unneeded business rates relief are that that money is used to support those who have so far gone without. The Chancellor should come here, and tell the House and those excluded people that that money will be used to support them through the coming weeks—and, if necessary, months. He should be providing greater business support for those areas where business has had to go without for longer because lockdown came earlier and deeper, and he must put these things right soon. If we do not do so, the ongoing crisis will be worse in the long run, the cost will be greater and those people who have gone without will continue to suffer.

Covid-19 Vaccine Roll-out

Bill Esterson Excerpts
Tuesday 8th December 2020

(3 years, 5 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.

Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
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The start of vaccinations is excellent news, and it is excellent news for my constituents that Aintree Hospital is one of the first in the country for the roll-out. The Health Secretary rightly said, “Let’s not blow it.” We still need to fix the gaps in contact tracing and in financial support for those who need to self-isolate. Only 11% of people are being contacted, according to the figures that I am getting, and we still need to learn from contact tracing in east Asia. Will he put resources into local public health teams, which are much better placed to fill those gaps, so that contact tracing plays its part while we wait for the roll-out of the vaccine across the country?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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The hon. Gentleman is right in principle that contact tracing and the testing roll-out are still critical while the vaccine roll-out happens. I am glad to say that his reports of only 11% being contacted are not right; the figure is much higher than that. I am also really pleased that in the Liverpool city region, which includes his Sefton constituency, we are now rolling out community testing much more widely, with the support of local teams. I hope that he will help us all in putting a shoulder to the wheel in that effort.

Oral Answers to Questions

Bill Esterson Excerpts
Tuesday 17th November 2020

(3 years, 5 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for that question. I can give him a couple of projections and a couple of facts. Over the past year, we have 13,500 more nurses in the NHS than we did a year ago, and thousands more doctors. Let me give him this projection, which I am sure that he and everybody on the Government Benches will buy into: we are going to have 50,000 more nurses in the NHS by the end of this Parliament.

Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
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Many of my constituents have taken part in the Liverpool mass testing pilots, but they need to know that the tests being used are accurate. Reports in The Times that suggest very high levels of both false positives and false negatives are deeply worrying, so can the Secretary of State tell us what steps he is taking to ensure that the tests being used in the mass testing are indeed accurate?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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Yes; the lateral flow tests that are being used in Liverpool are accurate. They measure whether somebody is infectious and have a very high specificity. We publish all these statistics, having had them assessed at Porton Down in one of the best medical science units across the whole world, so I assure the hon. Gentleman—and, through him, his constituents —that the lateral flow tests have a quick turnaround and a high degree of accuracy regarding whether someone is infectious. I have not seen the reports to which he refers, but I assure him that the best thing that people can do if they are offered a test is to get one.

Covid-19

Bill Esterson Excerpts
Wednesday 11th November 2020

(3 years, 6 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
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My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. In taking the action we are to protect the NHS, we are of course also seeking to suppress the number of people who need hospitalisations to maintain the availability of those hospital beds for other people in dire need, exactly as she alludes to. I have to say to those who question the impact of this disease or its seriousness when someone gets it that I am reminded—as I suspect other Members will be—of the extraordinary dignity and suffering of the Lewis family in the Rhondda, who were on “Channel 4 News” and various news outlets last week. Mr Lewis had lost his wife and his two sons in under a week to this disease. It was a truly dreadful story, and I have never seen a more dignified man than Mr Lewis when he was talking about it.

The latest R rate is between 1.1 and 1.3, so it was essential to take action to protect our NHS and to enable us, as my right hon. Friend said, to maintain vital services for those without covid that sadly had to be paused in the first wave. From the Dispatch Box, I would like to take the opportunity once again—every time we are here it is right we do it—to thank all our staff in the NHS and care sectors for the incredible work they have done and continue to do in the face of these unprecedented challenges.

As I have set out, the virus remains a serious threat. We recorded more than 20,000 positive cases yesterday. Average daily hospital admissions currently stand at 1,366 and, sadly, yesterday we recorded more than 500 deaths—the highest death toll since mid-May. It is a painful reminder that the real battles are not in fact fought here in this Chamber, but in our hospitals up and down the country and by those who are suffering from fighting this dreadful disease. But in this Chamber, there are steps we can take that I believe will help them in that battle, and I believe that we were therefore right to act as we did.

Despite the seriousness of our current situation, these measures are time-limited. They legally expire 28 days after they were passed by the House—on 2 December. At that point, we will look to return to the tiered system, using local and regional data and trends to determine our response and adapt to local needs.

The measures in place are also quite different from last time. Schools and universities rightly remain open to avoid further disruption to education. People can establish childcare bubbles, take unlimited exercise and meet one person from a different household outside. More than that, however difficult it has been, I believe that we as a nation have made huge strides to better overcome the challenges that these measures bring. However, I am acutely aware that for many people in our country any restrictions are still incredibly difficult, especially this second time around. They are difficult for our NHS and care home staff, who have shown such resilience but still face a difficult winter ahead; for the families who have not been able to see their loved ones and once again cannot meet them in the ways they would wish to; and for individuals who live alone and are still, despite support bubbles, having to cope with the challenges posed by these restrictions.

It has also, of course, been an especially tough time for the businesses that have had to close their doors just as they were coming back, and that is why we are providing an unprecedented package of economic measures, with more than £200 billion of financial support since March to protect lives and livelihoods in every region and nation of the United Kingdom. The package was recently described by the International Monetary Fund as

“one of the best examples of co-ordinated action globally”.

Of course I feel deeply for those businesses and individuals, and I appreciate the position they find themselves in, especially when they have done all they can to do the right thing. That was why it was important to extend the furlough scheme and to provide further support in extending the scheme for the self-employed.

Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
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Of course it is right that the furlough scheme and the support for the self-employed should be reinstated at the levels they were in March, but the Minister will know—everyone will know—that there are a great many people in our country who did not qualify for the furlough scheme or the self-employed scheme or whose businesses did not qualify for grants at the start and still do not. May I take this opportunity to remind him that a great many people in this country are still without financial support and will find it increasingly difficult to make it through the coming weeks and months? Will he take that message back to his colleagues across the Government?

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
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I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the way in which he makes his points, which is, as ever, measured and reasonable. As I have said, I entirely understand—as anyone in this House will, from looking at their own casework and their constituents’ letters—the situations that some people still find themselves in, despite the unprecedented package of support that has been put in place. I know that he would not expect me to speak for the Chancellor of the Exchequer, but I know that my right hon. Friend will have heard the point that he has made. Indeed, other Members of this House have made it on other occasions on behalf of their constituents.

This tough emotional and economic toll is why we are determined to make every day count in our battle against the virus. Our NHS has been preparing for this second wave for months, and as we move into winter, it is better prepared than before, with 30,000 ventilators and billions of items of PPE, mostly made here at home. In that context, I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill), who has done so much, as the Minister with responsibility for this area, to ensure that we have the PPE that we need at this time. There are also over 13,000 more nurses and almost 8,000 more doctors, and £450 million is being spent as we speak to further upgrade accident and emergency departments. There is increased capacity in our hospitals, and the Nightingales are standing ready as an insurance policy.

What is more, we know more about the virus than before. We know how we can better stop it and how we can better treat it. We have therefore strengthened infection control procedures and, as a result, we are driving down hospital-acquired infections. We have also improved clinical techniques, and I pay tribute to the clinicians and scientists who have driven these developments. As a result, the number of people surviving covid in hospital is up, as I said earlier. But of course, an increase in survival rates means that the pressure on NHS beds remains high. Equally concerning to the House will be the toll this disease takes not just on immediate physical health but on mental health. Our medical community is also working hard to understand the impact of so-called long covid and the potential for long-term chronic conditions resulting from the illness, even when people may have felt they were unaffected when they had it.

In social care, too, we have rightly taken important steps to protect people in care and those who care for them. Our social care winter plan, led by my hon. Friend the Minister for Care, strengthens protections in social care, including on the provision of PPE, regular testing and updated systems for safe discharge. Those will be crucial in the months to come. She recently set out the latest guidance for care home visits, which sought to strike the incredibly difficult balance on providing vital protections for the health and wellbeing of our most vulnerable people, while protecting the people who work there and seeking to allow those vital family visits.

We have also built the largest testing capacity of any country in Europe. From an almost standing start in the spring, we have conducted some 34 million tests so far, and yesterday our polymerase chain reaction testing capacity stood at 504,491. More than 10 million people in the UK have been tested at least once through NHS Test and Trace, and our NHS covid-19 contact tracing app is approaching 20 million downloads. In Stoke-on-Trent and Liverpool, we are piloting cutting-edge lateral flow tests, which can deliver a result on infection in just 15 minutes. Starting yesterday, we are rolling out twice-weekly testing for all NHS staff, using a range of testing technologies so that we can better seek to keep both staff and patients safe. On Monday, the Secretary of State wrote to 67 directors of public health who had an expressed an interest to him to make 10,000 tests immediately available to other areas across the country and to make lateral flow tests available for local officials and devolved Administrations according to local needs, at a rate of 10% of their population per week.

Those bold new steps are a key weapon in our battle against the virus, but of course I know that the hopes of the nation are, understandably, pinned on the possibility of a safe and effective vaccine. That felt another step closer on Monday, as we all welcomed the announcement from Pfizer and BioNTech of a vaccine that they state is more than 90% effective. As an early mover, the UK has already secured 40 million doses of that vaccine. It is important to note that it is just one of many vaccines in development, and we have placed orders for 300 million further doses from five other vaccine candidates that are yet to report phase 3 results. I always seek to sound a note of caution at this Dispatch Box and in the media, and it is important that I echo the words of caution from the Secretary of State yesterday: the full safety data for the Pfizer and BioNTech vaccine is not yet available, and our regulator the Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency and the Secretary of State will not approve any vaccine until it is proven to be clinically safe. This is a promising step forward, but we must remain cautious. So until we can roll out a proven vaccine, we must continue to follow the existing rules of “hands, face, space” because this remains a deadly virus.

In closing, let me say that in recent months this country has faced some tough and challenging times. We continue to face tough and challenging times, and many up and down our country have made huge sacrifices and continue to do so, be they individuals, families or businesses. I pay tribute to them all. There are no easy solutions, but we have risen to and beaten such challenges in the past, although different ones, and we can do so again, through a unity of spirit, by coming together as a country and by our shared determination to do the right thing. The recent announcement of a potential vaccine offers hope for the future, and while we pursue that prospect at speed, our greatest strength lies in the common sense, determination and resilience of the people of our great country. I am convinced that, with that and together, we will beat this dreadful disease.

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Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
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In April, the Government asked businesses across our country to step up to help in the pandemic. I want to tell a story of two businesses that tried to help in that pandemic. It is a contrast between two PPE companies: Florence Roby, owned by constituents of mine in Formby; and PPE Medro, which was founded on 12 May this year. Seven weeks later, this company was given a contract for £122 million to provide medical robes. The contract was not advertised anywhere else, and presumably it was delivered, but we have no way of knowing because we have not had the outcomes yet.

How was Florence Roby doing by 12 May, having first approached the Government in March, before the big call for help came? It has been going for more than 50 years, and it is a specialist in the manufacture of uniforms. Working with local NHS providers, it designed medical robes that could be reused up to 100 times. It took two months for Florence Roby to get an answer, which took it past the 12 May date. Meanwhile, it developed the product and applied for the CE marks. In June, it was told that its product was not required. The Government’s email said that they had all the PPE they could possibly ever need. Florence Roby and dozens of other companies across the country were told the same thing: their services were no longer required.

Florence Roby had put weeks of effort and thousands of pounds of investment into developing a product, which, remember, was 100 times reusable; meanwhile, we were getting planeloads of plastic medical robes from Turkey that could not be used because the quality was not good enough. That is the reality of what my constituents faced. They still have not had a contract or a satisfactory answer from the Government. They were just given the runaround.

PPE Medpro is not the only company to have profited, having been started from scratch or having had very little footprint and no previous experience. We saw that, as the hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Neale Hanvey) mentioned, with PestFix and its £108 million contract. PPE Medpro had one advantage: it was assisted by its relationship with a Conservative Member of the House of Lords. Randox, similarly connected to Members of the ruling party, got a £347 million contract for covid tests that could not be used because of safety concerns. Ayanda Capital, which supplied unusable facemasks, is based in Mauritius, and we heard at Prime Minister’s questions from the Leader of the Opposition about £130 million for external PR. All the while, a £7,000 day rate is being paid to consultants more widely. Florence Roby employs local people and a contract would have added jobs in its factory; instead, it had to lay people off, while PPE Medpro shipped from overseas. That is the contrast.

Let us remember that we were told all the way through that there are unique circumstances about procurement during a crisis, and I do not deny that. On 11 April, there was a call to arms from the Health Secretary to any UK textile company that could assist. On 15 April, the Government’s website was calling for PPE manufacturers and home-grown industries. On 4 May, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster spoke of support for

“companies capable of contributing supplies.”—[Official Report, 4 May 2020; Vol. 675, c. 411.]

All of those requests were made and answered by Florence Roby and a list of other companies, including EcoLogix in my constituency, Imperial Polythene Products in Slough and Staeger Clear Packaging, which makes aprons and other PPE, but they were turned down despite offering to help. It was a chance for British companies to contribute to the crisis, and it was a chance for taxpayers’ money to support businesses through the pandemic to help with jobs and the economy, but they were turned down. That is why the National Audit Office report and investigation is so important.

Covid-19 Restrictions: South Yorkshire

Bill Esterson Excerpts
Wednesday 21st October 2020

(3 years, 6 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
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I join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to all local leaders and, indeed, all Members of this House who have been engaged in this process and more broadly. It is clear that when we all work together, we can achieve more to tackle this disease.

Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab) [V]
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On Monday, I asked the Health Secretary about contact tracing. He answered by talking about testing, so perhaps this Minister will answer a question about contact tracing. Will the Government now give the Serco data to local public health teams, and will the Government provide the financial resources that those local teams need? That equates to roughly £300 million to the Liverpool city region, similar sums to Lancashire and to South Yorkshire, and about £500 million to Greater Manchester when compared with the £12 billion for Serco.

Edward Argar Portrait Edward Argar
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I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. The data he refers to is, of course, Government data—NHS data. He talks about contact tracing, and as I said in response to his hon. Friend the shadow Secretary of State, the approach we adopt on both testing but particularly on contact tracing quite rightly blends the scalability of a national approach with the local knowledge of working very closely hand in hand with local public health teams. A very good example of how that can work well is in my own local city and the shadow Secretary of State’s city of Leicester.

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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Yes. I applaud the work that has been done across Bucks to deliver public health messages and try to get the whole community to support the action that we all can play our part in and that my right hon. Friend rightly raises.

Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab) [V]
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The Health Secretary really should admit that Serco has failed. If it was shared fairly across the country, the £12 billion for Serco would mean £300 million for the Liverpool city region alone. When will he give that level of funding to local public health teams, and when will he instruct Dido Harding to give local teams the data that is currently held by Serco, so that they can do the job that Serco has failed to do?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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Given that we hit 300,000 tests a day for the first time over the weekend, I would have thought that the hon. Gentleman might have looked at the data and the improvement that is happening. [Interruption.] Opposition Members say, “not testing”. They used to complain about testing, and now that is going well. Contact tracing is getting better, and last week—[Interruption.] Last week, contact tracers in this country contacted more than double the number of people than the week before. Instead of having a go at all the people who are helping to solve this massive problem, the Opposition should get in support of them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Bill Esterson Excerpts
Tuesday 6th October 2020

(3 years, 7 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Jo Churchill Portrait Jo Churchill
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I thank the hon. Lady for her question. Cancer nurse specialists are a particular interest of mine, and the long-term plan identifies that everybody deserves to have personalised care from a cancer nurse specialist. We did see the rate decline from 91% in 2018 to about 89% in 2019, and we are focused on making sure that everybody has a cancer nurse specialist. We promised it in the long-term plan and it is our ambition to deliver that personalised care to every woman. As I have outlined, the backlog of breast cancer screening has gone down but, again, I urge women who are called for screening to come forward. It is safe and, as with me, it could make all the difference.

Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
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What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of local restrictions on reducing the rate of transmission of covid-19.

Owen Thompson Portrait Owen Thompson (Midlothian) (SNP)
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What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of lockdown restrictions on limiting the second wave of covid-19.

Matt Hancock Portrait The Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Matt Hancock)
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I chair the Government’s local action gold committee, which considers the latest data and advice from experts, including epidemiologists and the chief medical officer, and the Joint Biosecurity Centre. Through this process, we consult local leaders and directors of public health. We have seen local actions in some parts of the country bring the case rate right down and we need to make sure that we are constantly vigilant to what needs to happen to suppress this virus.

Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson [V]
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Yesterday, the Health Secretary told me:

“we have been putting the extra money into…councils”—[Official Report, 5 October 2020; Vol. 681, c. 637.]

What money is that? He announced £7 million, split between nine councils, as compared with £12 billion for Serco. That is not putting the extra money into councils, is it? So may I ask him to show respect for Members of this House and, more importantly, for our constituents, and answer the question: when is he going to stop relying on the outsourcing giants and to support local public health teams with the funds they need, because that is how he and this country are going to fix test, trace and isolate?

Covid-19 Update

Bill Esterson Excerpts
Monday 5th October 2020

(3 years, 7 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab) [V]
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The six councils in the Liverpool city region face a budget shortfall of £150 million. On Thursday, the Health Secretary announced £7 million to be split between the Liverpool city region and three further councils—a drop in the ocean compared with £150 million. He knows that local professionals have solutions to the problems of test, trace and isolate. He has shown that there are not just millions but billions of pounds available for Serco, Deloitte, Compass and friends. So when will he invest in local public health teams and sort out the mess of test, trace and isolate once and for all?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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As I have said, we have been putting the extra money into local councils, as well as using, frankly, all the tools at our disposal, public or private sector—whether people are in the NHS, PHE, a local council or a firm that can bring a capability to bear on this problem. It is one big team effort.

Covid-19 Update

Bill Esterson Excerpts
Monday 21st September 2020

(3 years, 7 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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Yes, I can confirm that. The exemption means that, for instance, if grandparents look after children to provide childcare, where that is a continuous childcare relationship—that is the legal definition—that will be exempt, in the same way that paid-for childcare will be exempt. This therefore does not allow for people to have children staying with others and, as I said in my statement, parties and play dates. It allows, where a family member or other undertakes unpaid childcare that is akin to paid childcare, that they can be exempted. I know how much many people rely on this to be able to get to work, and I am really glad we have been able to make this progress.

Bill Esterson Portrait Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
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Those of us who represent areas that face additional restrictions as of tomorrow are happy to reinforce the messages, but we need the Secretary of State’s help, don’t we, Mr Speaker? The difference between the instruction of households that they “must not go and visit each other” as opposed to saying they “should not go to the pub together” is one of the ambiguities that my hon. Friend the Member for Leicester South (Jonathan Ashworth) has highlighted right from the start of this crisis. It is an ambiguity that is exploited by the virus, but it is also exploited, sadly, by a small but important minority of people in this country. Will he clear up these ambiguities and improve the chances that everybody will comply with these necessary new restrictions?

Matt Hancock Portrait Matt Hancock
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The message that the hon. Member should be putting out and that I will set out is that, where we say that people should not socialise outside their household, that is the approach that people should take. He makes a detailed point underneath that, but the top-line message to all of his constituents is, no, they should not be socialising with people outside their household.