Employment and Trade Union Rights (Dismissal and Re-engagement) Bill

Debate between Barry Gardiner and Geraint Davies

2nd reading
Friday 22nd October 2021 Commons Chamber

[Barry Gardiner]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right to say we need to ensure that, from time to time, businesses can cope with the changes that they experience and can restructure appropriately. I think the point my hon. Friend the Member for Brighton, Kemptown (Lloyd Russell-Moyle) was making is that, when they seek do that, it should be done through a proper process of consultation and negotiation, and not holding the sword of Damocles over the heads of their workers.

[Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)]

My hon. Friend may know that in Germany workers are much better protected from being fired and that productivity in Germany grew between 2015 to 2020 at twice the level it has in the United Kingdom. Does he therefore agree that, given the option of either firing someone or increasing their training, productivity and technology, Germany chooses to train people and raise productivity and Britain, if we allow this to go on, will choose to sack people and reduce productivity? So it is imperative to increased productivity that this is agreed.

[Barry Gardiner]

My hon. Friend makes a very significant wider point about the productivity and the relative productivity of the UK. I think that is a matter of very deep concern to Members across the House.

--- Later in debate ---

[Barry Gardiner]

The hon. Lady’s point was somewhat drowned out on the Labour Benches, but I think it was by people who were agreeing about the importance of training and skills.

[Geraint Davies]

Does my hon. Friend agree with the Productivity Institute report of March 2021 that

“The widespread, one-sided flexibility of the UK labour market has locked in a low productivity mode of work”?

People in the gig economy simply have not got the security or the money to invest in themselves. Employers need to and they will do it more in the event that they cannot simply fire and rehire people willy-nilly, which they cannot in Germany.

[Barry Gardiner]

My hon. Friend has, again, touched on a really important point. It is about what sort of society we want and whether we want a society where work is an insecure fact of life.