Small Charitable Donations Bill

Barry Gardiner Excerpts

Tuesday 4th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Miss Smith]

I should make it clear that I am in no way refusing to have such a meeting. I would be happy to take up that point. The scheme will be complementary to the gift aid scheme. Some charities have struggled to claim gift aid on certain types of donation—for example, cash donations whose donors it might be hard to persuade to stop and fill out a form. However, that is a different type of problem from the one to which my hon. Friend has just referred. I shall be happy to take up his point in greater detail.

I shall explain why we have had to put in place the three-year matching rule. There is an understandable reason behind it, and I think that charities will find it reasonable to work with. I am keen to avoid a situation in which the new scheme might become vulnerable to exploitation. None of us would wish to see funds that have been directed towards charities and the good causes they support being diverted or lost to fraud. I certainly hope that all Members cleave to that principle.

As I have said, HMRC pays around £1 billion a year in gift aid to charities, and such large sums inevitably attract fraudsters. Fraudsters scrutinise any payment system for weaknesses, and we have to be aware of that in designing any new scheme. As the new scheme is based on cash donations, records of the donor will, by their very nature, be limited. It could be said that this makes it even more attractive to fraudsters, so the very qualities of the scheme that are designed to make it work for charities—in other words, the ease of putting some money in a bucket—also help fraudsters. We have needed to find ways to protect the scheme from abuse, without adding to the paperwork that it might be feared would sit along small donations. One way we have tried to do this is by retaining the link to the gift aid scheme, which has tried-and-tested methods to protect against fraud. This also fits in with the desire, as I have said, for this scheme to be complementary to gift aid, not to replace it.

You will be able to appreciate, Mr Speaker, the idea I am developing of the need for charities to have a compliance record that will give HMRC a little more reassurance that the scheme is well protected against fraud. I am confident that every Member supports that. Charities with a good compliance record will be able to access the quite generous top-up payments available. Linking the scheme to claims made through gift aid gives not only HMRC, but all of us in this House, vital reassurance that checks and balances are in place.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

We all appreciate the need to ensure that the scheme is not open to fraud. That will be agreed across the House. What assessment, however, has the Department made of the number, the size and the scope of the charities that the Minister believes will be able to access the benefits of the scheme, with these conditions attached? The industry seems to think that the number, size and scope of such charities will be severely curtailed.

[Miss Smith]

We hope that this scheme will be well used, and I have already set out that aspiration. I have set out the aspiration, too, that the scheme will get £100 million to charities. The hon. Gentleman will be aware of the numbers set out in the impact assessment, which has certainly been made available to him. The key point is that the scheme needs to be open and, as we have said, worth while for charities to access, which I think it will be. Equally, we need to be able to keep track of the possible costs of the scheme, which I am coming on to deal with. I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that a pool of around 100,000 charities have claimed gift aid in the past four years. It might be possible to take that number as an estimate of the number of charities that could be eligible to apply to the scheme. We hope that take-up will be high, but by its nature, it is somewhat hard to predict at this point, but I am not suggesting that all those 100,000 charities will put in claims.

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[Cathy Jamieson]

The hon. Gentleman makes an interesting point and that is precisely the kind of thing that the Bill Committee will want to consider very closely. Anything that makes reviewing and improving the Bill once it has been enacted better is worth considering and, potentially, supporting. I also hope that we will see where we can improve the primary legislation to make it less likely that we will need to revisit or revise it quickly. I hear what he says and I am sure that we will have further such discussions in Committee.

Let me return to some of the issues raised by the charities and the voluntary sector. The Bill proposes that an eligible charity must have been registered with HMRC for a minimum of three years, have made a gift aid claim in three of the past seven years and not had a penalty imposed as a result of a gift aid claim. One obvious concern raised by many small charities who rely on small cash donations is that they will not necessarily have a three-year history of claiming gift aid. They feel that that has the potential to disadvantage them from the start. I shall say something else about that shortly.

Another area of concern is the matching provision outlined in clause 1, and the Minister has given us some information about her thinking and why she decided to set the ratio at 2:1 rather than at the point she originally intended. In order for a charity to take full advantage of the scheme, claiming the maximum £1,250 on £5,000 of small donations, it will need to have claimed at least £625 in gift aid in the same year. Charities say that that raises a number of potential problems. As we have heard, many small charities may not be registered with HMRC, and unless they register they will not be eligible to join the scheme. There is a worry that the three-year period may not give people an incentive to do so. Many may simply decide that the scheme is too complex, particularly some of the small charities that do not have the resources or an extensive staff network; they may just rule themselves out.

Additionally, many small charities only receive cash donations, so they often do not raise enough to claim the maximum £625 in gift aid in a year that they would need to benefit from the scheme. Ministers may want to give charities some reassurance about that, because charities that claim less under gift aid are at a direct disadvantage as a result of the matching provision, compared with those that are better able to use the scheme. That could further reduce access to the very small charities that the Minister said she would like to see benefit.

The NCVO recommends that the matching 2:1 principle is dropped, and would welcome steps to open up the scheme—for example, so that start-up charities and those currently not registered for gift aid had the opportunity to register and get into the system sooner. I heard what the Minister said about anti-avoidance measures and potential fraud, but we want to ensure that we do everything possible to allow smaller charities that try to respond to local issues, or are set up to respond—not quite on an emergency basis—to a particular issue, to get as much benefit as possible.

On the connected principle, charities have identified additional areas of concern in clauses 4 to 9, which cover the rules intended to stop charities and community groups fragmenting in order to be eligible for greater amounts under the scheme. Clause 5 defines the meaning of “connected” using section 993 of the Income Tax Act 2007, where a person who has control is “a trustee”, or a person who

“has power to appoint or remove a trustee…or…has any power of approval or direction in relation to the carrying out by the trustees of any of their functions.”

However, charities are not connected

“unless the purposes and activities of the charities are the same or substantially similar.”

Once again, charities and the organisations that represent them have pointed out that in reality many trustees will serve on more than one trustee board, which is particularly likely at local level. The concern is that there could be an impact on the charity’s eligibility to join the scheme if a trustee sits on the boards of two organisations that are considered similar. Charities suggest that that could easily occur, because if an individual has expertise or an interest in a particular area of service provision, they might sit on the boards of two comparable organisations. It is important that the rule is not seen as a barrier to attracting people or appointing high quality trustees with experience and expertise. I hope the Minister will look at the issue and offer some reassurance and, if necessary, some changes so that we get the maximum benefit from the Bill.

It is highly unlikely that an organisation would be incentivised to fragment to increase its accessibility to the scheme, which has been given as the main reason behind the provision. The majority of charities simply want to get on with doing the job—I see the Minister nodding. Of course they want to maximise their resources and the last thing on their minds is setting up different structures to fragment to obtain some other advantage—as it has been described. Will the Minister consider providing further clarification so that charities with similar purposes will not be disadvantaged simply because they have a common trustee?

[Barry Gardiner]

Does my hon. Friend agree that because of the matching requirement the conditions to stop fraud in gift aid will already be followed through? There is not the capacity for the extent of fraud that the Treasury fears, because it is already captured by gift aid requirements.

[Cathy Jamieson]

My hon. Friend articulately outlines one of the points that some of the charitable organisations make. They want a balance between ensuring that there is no fraud and maximising the income for charities. Many of them believe that the current provisions give the protection for that.

A number of organisations have raised concerns about community buildings. Clause 6 attempts to recognise that some charities have multiple independent local groups, which should not be excluded from the scheme if they would have been eligible as completely separate organisations. Having run a charity in a previous existence, I know something of the practicalities and difficulties of trying to work in that context. I recognise that it is difficult to get this right and we will have to return to this in Committee.

The proposal is that the use of a community building always should serve as a proxy for assessing eligibility of the independent local groups. Clause 6 stipulates that charities running activities in separate community buildings, which could be considered independent, might be entitled to an additional specified amount under the scheme. The additional community building limit applies only to small donations that are made to the charity in the community building in the tax year while it is running charitable activities. The charities tell us that, once again, that could be problematic.

Beneficiary and donor groups are usually separate, and it is often the exception, not the rule, that funds are raised during charitable activity, so the charities are saying that the provision risks disadvantaging those charities for which it would not be appropriate or possible to raise funds in that way. They give the example of a support group for people who are recovering from addiction problems, which would not be expected to raise funds during counselling or one-to-one sessions, whereas a church or a church organisation might often take up a collection during meetings. It is more relevant, therefore, that the funding is directed towards the activities of the local group, rather than that donations are made in the building during charitable activities.

Clause 7 stipulates that a charity running activities in separate community buildings, which could be considered independent, might be entitled to an additional specified amount with respect to the scheme

“if it carries out charitable activities with a group of 10 or more people in the building on 6 or more occasions in the tax year”.

However, specifying the number of beneficiaries could limit the types of organisation that may access the scheme of their own accord. Again, I hope that the Minister will listen to what the charities are saying about that. They are also concerned that some community groups are based in a community building that is itself a registered charity, with a number of non-registered organisations carrying out activities in an umbrella organisation of some kind underneath that. It is not entirely clear to the people who will have to work the scheme on the ground how the rules apply in such a situation. Perhaps the Minister can clarify that. If not, we shall return to the matter in Committee.

There are a number of other situations in which the criteria might not apply. Local groups of charities that deliver services such as counselling to individuals or small groups might well not meet the 10-people rule, although they might be doing good and valuable work. In local groups of conservation or animal welfare charities, the individuals present might be volunteers. One concern about the Bill is when a person is a volunteer, a staff member or a beneficiary of the charity. The reality of many of those organisations is that people might occupy each role at different times, or indeed occupy some of those roles at the same time. There could also be problems where local groups carry out home visits and service delivery in the buildings of partner organisations.

There are some limitations to such an approach, which sees the links with the community buildings as the most effective way to identify an independent local group. The concern is that, for those groups, the Bill restricts eligible fundraising activities to those conducted in the building. If that is the case, it is unhelpful and will disadvantage those groups compared with other charities using the scheme, where no such restriction is in place.

Clause 8 stipulates that a community building cannot include a building, or any part of a building, used wholly or mainly for commercial or residential purposes. That point has already been referred to. It is said that the provision aims to ensure that groups run from homes and commercial entities such as charity shops cannot access a separate entitlement to the scheme.

The intention behind the provision is clear, but once again a number of challenges are posed. For instance, many charities that may be part of a group structure run activities that are residential in nature. Hospices have already been mentioned. Further examples are care homes and respite care. It will sometimes be difficult to decide what the main purpose is. It would be interesting to hear Ministers’ views on that. It may be difficult for those charities to access the scheme independently, as they may be entitled to only one limit across the whole group structure, unless they are awarded special consideration. Charities or community groups carrying out contracted services may also be considered commercial. That is a genuine issue for some of the charities that are delivering services on which many of our constituents depend.

If the additional limits are awarded only to groups carrying out charitable activities, this should be sufficient to restrict charity shops from accessing the scheme, if that is the purpose. Commercial activity that is carried out as part of the delivery of charitable activities—so-called primary purpose trading—should be exempt from falling under this definition.

A number of charities and voluntary sector organisations have expressed their concerns about the Bill, and the Minister gave us some information about involvement in consultation. The Bill has also raised concerns among some in the legal profession, including the Law Society of Scotland. It supports the policy intent of the Bill and suggests that it is an attempt to strike a reasonable balance between pragmatism and identifying fraud, so the Minister has the support of the Law Society of Scotland in that context. However, the LSS makes the point that it is difficult to identify a way of achieving in practice what the Bill attempts to do in theory. It suggests that flexibility be built into the legislation, as has already been mentioned this afternoon, or that there should be provision for a review of how it is working, as it may prove easier to identify ways to widen the scope of the legislation once it has been in operation for a time.

The Law Society of Scotland echoes the points made by NCVO and others that the legislation is likely to have limited impact and that it will not catch all the charities that could usefully benefit from it. The LSS goes on to highlight some specific issues about the drafting of the Bill. I do not want to spend too much time dealing with those this afternoon, but I shall set out a couple. On clause 3, the LSS has voiced concerns that £20 is too small an amount and that in certain situations it may be difficult for managers to police. It notes that the schedule to the clause provides that

“Where a gift of cash is made to the charity and its managers do not know whether the gift is £20 or less, the condition in sub-paragraph (1)—

With which I am sure the Minister is au fait—

“ is to be treated as met if the managers have taken reasonable steps to find out.”

The Minister and I have had enough exchanges in Committees to know that there are always questions about what “reasonable steps” in such a case would mean. This is another example where something that makes perfect sense to those drafting the wording of a Bill may not easily translate into practice and I, like the LSS, am left wondering what the “reasonable steps” envisaged might be in practice and whether the Minister is proposing guidance on this point.

I seek clarification from the Minister whether the provisions laid out in clause 12 are intended to provide continuity where a charity opts to change its legal form. Does she agree that although it would be sufficient in respect of incorporations, more would be required in the case of mergers? Does the primary legislation need to be wider in that respect?

Although the Bill of course covers the UK and contains provisions for different parts of the United Kingdom, particularly the exception for Northern Ireland, the Minister will be aware that there is different legislation for charities in Scotland. Concern has been expressed by the Law Society of Scotland that the definition of “charitable purpose” in the Bill is the English definition. Will the Minister clarify whether the wording in clause 17(2)(a) is necessary or desirable in view of the terms of sections 7, 8 and 356 of the Charities Act 2011? Scottish charities will need to be aware of the different legal definitions that will apply to them for different purposes.

I know that all probably sounds pretty technical when broken down clause by clause, and there might be Members on both sides of the House whose eyes are now glazing over because of all the detailed points I have made, but it is an example of what we are going to have to deal with in Committee. However, I think that it is worth reflecting on the fact that these issues have been raised because charities have told us that the changes will affect people in our communities.

The CFG has highlighted the example of a local branch of a national charity that works with disabled children. The branch is independently managed and holds its own business contracts. It runs in-home services for children and young people and focuses on developing independent skills. It occasionally holds social groups for its beneficiaries in different venues, depending on the cost of rent and availability. A local commercial hotel and leisure club often provides it with low-cost space to hold such events. The branch regularly claims under gift aid and often fundraises with collection buckets in the local area and through events at local schools.

One of the concerns that have been raised is that that organisation might be unable to claim gift aid fully under the proposed scheme because, as a local branch of a national charity, it might be considered to be connected and so would fall under the community buildings rules. As its services are not linked to one community building, it might be unable to claim for small cash donations. Residential and commercial buildings are not eligible, so it will not be able to register off the back of regular meetings in beneficiaries’ homes or the local hotel that provides low-cost space. One-to-one services do not count, as the legislation stipulates that meetings in community buildings must take place with at least 10 people present, not including staff and volunteers, and at least six times a year. Donations are not always made during the course of its charitable activities or within a community building used for those activities, but rather through separate fundraising events and activities. That picture of what a typical charitable organisation or set-up involves is one that we will have to look at more closely in Committee to ensure that absolutely everything is put in place to assist them.

In conclusion, the scheme is a welcome addition to the gift aid landscape and could be of particular benefit to small charities. We know that millions of pounds in potential gift aid is left unclaimed every year, and the scheme could go some way towards bringing some of that money back to the beneficiaries who need it most. We know that giving small amounts of cash is the most common donation method, and it has been estimated that in 2010-11 the average person would have donated £11 through charity buckets or donation tins.

Therefore, charities are asking the Government to simplify the scheme substantially to make it fairer and allow improved access for smaller organisations and equal access for similar charities. The abiding principle they want to see adopted is that the scheme should be easy to access and not tied up in red tape—something I am sure Ministers will absolutely wish to ensure. It would be helpful if the Minister gave some response to the concerns about the matching ratio requirement, the eligibility criteria and the community buildings rules. We have also heard some concerns about gift aid, such as the burden on charities of its being a paper-based system in an increasingly digital world. Indeed, the comment has been made that it is perhaps time to look again at the whole gift aid system and ways of bringing it up to date. I would be interested to hear her views in that regard.

Finally, I welcome what the Minister said about being committed to the consultation process and the new public reading stage for Bills, but I must reiterate the comments I made in my earlier intervention. It has actually been quite difficult for members of the public to find the information on the Cabinet Office website and take part in the consultation. If this is a pilot for the future, I hope that she will consult colleagues on how the whole experience could be improved. She has updated us on a number of comments that have been made, but perhaps she will also give us a specific time scale for when the information will be given to Members so that we have the opportunity to engage fully with the organisations that took the time to contribute.

The Opposition support the principle of the Bill and want to see it progress to Committee, where it needs to be amended to reflect the views of those who have contributed so far and the needs of the charities and community amateur sports clubs that do so much good work in our local communities.

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[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

I apologise for having been absent from the Chamber for the past couple of speeches. I was present at the beginning of the debate, however.

I wish to right a calumny. This summer I spent a couple of days clearing out my garage, and one of the things I threw into the skip was a short tome entitled, “The achievements of the Major Government”. A friend of mine had given it to me at the time of the 1997 general election, and its pages were, of course, blank—it was a joke. I recall, however, that John Major set up gift aid in his 1990 Budget: he instituted one-off charitable donations being made free of tax for gifts of, I think, £600. That proved extremely popular with charities, and the provision should have been written into that tome, even though it was an achievement not of John Major’s Government but of his time as Chancellor. Gift aid has been widely welcomed by Members on both sides of the House and by charities throughout the country.

That £600 limit was reduced to £400 in 1992, and ultimately a Labour Government abolished it entirely in the Finance Act 2000. In the 2007 Budget, the then Labour Government announced a number of measures to support the take-up of gift aid. The then Chancellor also announced, however, that the 10% starting rate of tax would be abolished from 2008-09 and that income tax on earned income would be charged at two rates: the basic rate of 20% and the higher rate of 40%. The gift aid scheme allows a charity to recover sums at the basic rate, so the cut in the basic rate from 22% to 20% hit them hard. That was why after my right hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling) became Chancellor he announced in his 2008 Budget a new transitional relief for charities, to compensate them for the impact of that basic rate cut. At the time—in 2008-09—the relief was projected to cost £60 million, and then £105 million in 2009-10 and £120 million in 2010-11. That was greatly welcomed by the charitable sector.

In 2010, Peter Fanning, chief executive of the Chartered Institute of Taxation, submitted a report on improving gift aid based on the gift aid forum’s discussions. Although the report did not discuss donations outside the scope of gift aid, one of its principal recommendations was that

“small charities are particularly vulnerable at times of economic stress and some find dealing with Gift Aid difficult. Their needs should be a priority.”

In December of that year, the then Economic Secretary, the right hon. Member for Putney (Justine Greening), wrote to Mr Fanning, and was generally supportive of his report, but ruled out extending gift aid transitional relief on the grounds that prolonging its life would not target support effectively and that it was always “intended to be temporary”—we have heard that from the Dispatch Box today, too, from the current Economic Secretary. In response to a parliamentary question, the then Economic Secretary said:

“Gift aid transitional relief was introduced as a temporary measure to give charities time to prepare their financial plans in response to a lower rate of relief from gift aid. By April 2011, when the relief ends, charities will have had four years since the announcement of the 20% basic rate of income tax to prepare for the change. In 2009-10 charities benefited by £105 million from this relief and it is forecast that they will benefit by £120 million in 2010-11. The Government believe the £100 million transition fund announced in the spending review will better target support on charities most in need.”—[Official Report, 14 March 2011; Vol. 525, c. 92W.]

Much of today’s discussion has been about those charities most in need, and that will be the focus of my remarks.

In the 2012 Budget, the Government confirmed their plans to introduce a small donations scheme from April 2013. Under the scheme, charities are entitled to claim top-up payments on income from cash donations totalling up to £5,000 a year. Qualifying cash donations can be up to £20 each, rather than £10, as initially proposed—we are grateful that the current Economic Secretary listened to some of the objections raised by the industry and amended some of the initial proposals. The size of the top-up payment on each small donation will be equivalent to the tax relief given under gift aid so that a charity can claim a maximum of £1,250 a year.

The Bill requires work in Committee. Its proposals are complex and run the risk of disadvantaging some charities. Eligibility for the scheme is limited. That will prevent those who need it most from using it. The amount a charity can claim being linked to the amount of gift aid already claimed—the matching principle—will disadvantage the charities that most rely on small cash donations, as they may not have made sufficient gift aid claims to be able to take full advantage of the new scheme. Charities need to have a three-year record of claiming gift aid, but many small charities that rely on small cash donations simply will not have established that. This Bill was part of proposals designed to meet the problems that smaller charities have in being unable to access gift aid. Creating this matching requirement is therefore going to prove very difficult for them.

The Economic Secretary talked about the problems of fraud and the need to introduce such conditions for small charities, in order to avoid the problems that might arise through charities being able to stipulate the amount of small donations they had received. All Members will recognise the need for the Bill to include protection against fraud for the taxpayer, but in so doing it proposes that a charity has to have been registered for three years, to have made a gift aid claim in three of the past seven years, and not to have had a penalty imposed as a result of such a claim. I ask those on the Treasury Bench to consider whether this is not a question of “belt and braces”, and whether those provisions could be relaxed.

Clause 1 includes the matching provision. Here, the amount that a charity can claim is limited to £5,000 in donations a year, or, if less, double the amount of donations that have been put through the gift aid process. This provision matches the amount that a charity can claim with the amount it has claimed on gift aid at a ratio of 2:1. Therefore, for a charity to take full advantage of the scheme—claiming the maximum of £1,250 on £5,000 of small donations—it needs to have claimed at least £625 in gift aid in the same year. That is precisely what is so difficult for many small charities to achieve, and the Treasury recognised that in saying that this process would be “without form-filling”. When the Chancellor introduced this measure, he said it would be good for the bucket collectors because it would be without form-filling. However, that will be required, and it is precisely that threshold that many of these charities will find so hard to match.

Many small charities are not even registered with HMRC, and the three-year period will not incentivise them to do so, because they can see the scheme’s possible returns recede into the future. Many small charities receive such small amounts in cash donations that they do not claim gift aid at all. I do believe that these provisions are intended to help the smallest charities, but in fact they will hold that intention back. That is why, when I asked the Economic Secretary about her assessment of the number, size and scope of the organisations likely to benefit from the scheme, I was disappointed by her response. She talked about her “aspirations” regarding the number of charities that might try to access the benefits of the scheme, rather than talking about a real assessment by the Treasury Bench. In summing up the debate, can the Exchequer Secretary give us the Treasury’s actual assessment of the likely number, size and scope of the charities that are likely to benefit from the Bill if these restrictions and regulations are kept in place? If an assessment has been made, we need to know precisely what the answers to those questions are, to ensure that the Bill will deliver to the small charities that Members in all parts of the House want to benefit from it.

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[The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Mr David Gauke)]

We have had a thoughtful and constructive debate, although the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) perhaps introduced a party political element in the past few minutes.

Throughout the debate we have heard hon. Members from all parties raise thoughtful points. My hon. Friend the Member for Dartford (Gareth Johnson) made the point that the purpose is to complement, not replace, gift aid. The hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) gave us a history of charity law and taxation going back to 1601, although she missed a bit before returning to more recent years—the House is probably grateful that she did not run through the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries in detail. My hon. Friend the Member for Stafford (Jeremy Lefroy) pointed out the need to strike a balance between simplicity and preventing fraud. A number of speakers returned to that point, including the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan (Dr Whiteford), who raised a number of detailed points, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White). I know that he has also done so in correspondence with my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary. As has already been pointed out, he also highlighted the generosity of the good people of Leamington. The hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) also set out a number of detailed points, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Milton Keynes South (Iain Stewart) and the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner). I hope to address as many of those points as possible this evening, but I am sure that the Public Bill Committee will enjoy scrutinising them very thoroughly.

I am grateful for the widespread support from across the House for the principle behind the scheme and I hope to be able to respond to the issues raised, but before I do so let me recap. As my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary set out at the beginning of the debate, the new scheme is not designed to replace gift aid. It complements it, allowing charities to claim for the cash donations they receive for which it is too difficult or impossible to get a gift aid declaration. The scheme is not intended to replace gift aid or to be a substitute for it in cases where it is straightforward to operate for charities of all sizes. Whenever and wherever possible, we want charities to make full use of gift aid, which is a very successful tax relief that contributes more than £1 billion annually to the charitable sector’s income.

A number of Members were concerned about complexity in the scheme and the fact that it might exclude the small community charities that could benefit most from it. Let me assure Members that it will not do that, as the basic scheme is very simple. Claiming on donations under the scheme will be simple, with no requirement to obtain a gift aid declaration from donors and with claims being made on the same form used to claim gift aid payments. Charities will not be required to keep any additional records of the money received over and above best practice record keeping. As the scheme is simple and based on cash donations and will have limited donor records, the scheme could, however, become attractive to fraudsters. I am sure that all hon. Members will agree that we must protect the scheme from abuse and one way of doing that is by linking it to gift aid.

It was said that the gift aid small donations scheme excludes those charities that would most benefit from it—the small charities that do not currently claim gift aid—but it is right that it should be a requirement for charities participating in the small donations scheme to claim gift aid alongside it. Gift aid is easy to use if the charity is simply collecting donations of money and it will soon become even easier when HMRC introduces its new online system for claiming gift aid next year. We hope that the small donations scheme will encourage those charities that do not use gift aid to do so.

The design of the scheme, with a requirement for a three-year successful track record of claiming gift aid, is one way to counter the fraudsters and protect the scheme from abuse. It is a straightforward way to protect the scheme from exploitation without reintroducing all the paperwork that it is designed to remove. I am sure hon. Members will agree that it is only sensible for the scheme to have a test, such as that three-year check, so that HMRC can be more certain that a charity will not abuse the scheme. Reducing the three-year limit, as has been suggested, would significantly increase the cost of the scheme.

Let me turn now to the point specifically raised by the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Cathy Jamieson) about trustees and the concern about charities that are connected by a shared trustee. The Bill sets out that for trustees to be connected they would have to have purposes or undertake activities that were the same or substantially similar. If someone was a trustee of two charities that were completely unrelated and did very different sorts of charitable activities, those charities would not be connected under the scheme. We received some feedback on that rule during the consultation and adapted it to meet concerns that charities would unintentionally be caught by the rule as originally proposed. We are looking further into that, however, to see whether it would be possible to amend it further to ensure that no charities are caught unintentionally.

Another concern that has been raised is the community building rule and the question of access to the scheme for those charities doing similar work at a local level. The community building rule has been written into the Bill to ensure fairness of access and to avoid significantly unfair results. Most charities will not need to worry about the rule because they are independent and collect less than £5,000 in small donations, so they will get their £5,000 allowance regardless of their activities or where they collect the donations. But we sought fair access to the scheme. As my colleague the Economic Secretary said, in developing the scheme, it soon became clear that without some special rules, some charities would benefit hundreds or even thousands of times more than others, based purely on the way they were historically set up. That clearly is not right, so the community building rule was introduced to avoid significantly unfair results between charities carrying out similar activities in local communities, either as independent charities under an umbrella organisation or as local groups operating as part of a single large charity.

The vast majority of charities will not need to concern themselves with the extra allowance. For those that do, there will be detailed guidance to ensure that it is simple to access. It is important to remember that the basic principle of the scheme is that each eligible charity should be entitled to top-up payments on a maximum of £5,000 in donations. I am sure hon. Members will agree that we are doing the right thing to ensure fairer access to the scheme for charities that would otherwise lose out, just because of the way they were historically set up.

The intention of the community building rule is not to allow all buildings where charitable activities take place to receive a separate allowance of up to £5,000 of small cash donations; it is to remove the worst inequalities that would otherwise exist, so that some charities would be able to claim hundreds, perhaps thousands, times more payments under the scheme than others undertaking similar activities. We believe that the rule as drafted achieves that objective.

I want to pick up a point about the definition of charitable purpose raised by the hon. Members for Kilmarnock and Loudoun and for Banff and Buchan and about its application in Scotland as well as in England, given that charitable purpose is being used in the English definition. Given that top-up payments are not a tax relief, clause 17(2)(a) makes it clear that the definition of charitable purpose according to the law of England and Wales is to be applied across the United Kingdom. The hon. Member for Banff and Buchan raised an important point about the Bill applying across the UK, and said that we should ensure that devolved issues are considered. I assure the House that the devolved implications have been explored and agreed with policy administrators in all the devolved Administrations.

The hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun and my hon. Friend the Member for Stafford referred to the £20 limit and asked what is meant by managers taking reasonable steps to find out whether a gift was £20 or less. Charities will be expected to have a process to ensure that their staff and volunteers do not deliberately include gifts of £20 or more as small donations. HMRC is developing guidance to explain the steps it would be reasonable for charities to take, but those steps will be proportionate to the risk because we want to ensure that the rules are applied with a light touch and give charities maximum flexibility. The aim of the scheme is to allow a top-up payment without a gift aid declaration on small donations, and we think £20 covers that. For larger donations, charities are more likely to be able to ask the donor for a declaration. We have already increased the limit from £10 to £20 following earlier representations.

Another issue raised by the hon. Member for Banff and Buchan related to donations by text—which are growing in use—cheque or credit card, which are not allowed under the scheme. The aim of the new gift aid small donations scheme is to allow charities and community amateur sports clubs to claim a gift aid-style payment on cash donations received in circumstances where it is difficult to collect a donor’s details or where donors may be reluctant to give them. As a donor may be giving details to the charity through other channels, and the extra amount of information needed for a gift aid declaration is therefore relatively small, we are focusing the scheme on cash. Where a charity has an ongoing relationship with a donor, we believe it should use gift aid if at all possible.

In an intervention and in his speech, the hon. Member for Brent North asked about the Treasury’s assessment of how many charities would take up the scheme. We estimate that around 80,000 individual charities will claim annually by 2016-17. Some charities will make extra claims on behalf of their local groups under the community building rule and some of those local groups may make claims for gift aid on behalf of their parent charity. However, it is only an estimate, so the take-up rate could be higher or lower. The fundamental methodology for costing the scheme, at around £100 million, as my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary pointed out earlier, was signed off by the independent Office for Budget Responsibility in the 2011 Budget. The final numbers, including assumptions about local groups, will be submitted to the OBR for approval at the next fiscal event.

[Barry Gardiner]

I am grateful to the Minister for answering the question directly. Could he be slightly more specific than just the number of groups? The concern is not just about the number of charities, because they may be medium-sized or larger; it is about their nature, scope and size. Does he have any evidence about that from Treasury assessments?

[Mr Gauke]

More information may be available during the Public Bill Committee—the hon. Gentleman looks like an enthusiastic volunteer. My hon. Friend the Economic Secretary pointed out earlier that a pool of about 100,000 charities have claimed gift aid in the past four years, and we think about 80,000 of them will make a claim under the scheme.

To return to the central point, there is a reason for linking the scheme to gift aid: to prevent fraud and ensure that the money goes to genuine charities. I am sure we share the belief that the measure is the best way of doing that. I hear the concerns that have been raised about smaller charities that may not submit gift aid applications, but we have to remember that the scheme involves paying out taxpayers’ money, so we need to ensure that it goes in the right direction.

To conclude, in designing the gift aid small donations scheme the Government have listened to the sector and made a number of changes following consultation. We reduced the level of matching required between gift aid claims and donations under the scheme, to make it easier for small charities to claim. We refined the rules for better targeting when charities are connected to one another, and we increased flexibility for connected charities to share their allocation under the scheme. However, I remind hon. Members that the overall objective of the scheme is to allow individual charities to claim a top-up payment on up to £5,000 of donations. The Bill will provide much-needed additional financial support to the charitable sector in these tough times. I therefore commend it to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

small charitable donations bill (programme)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Small Charitable Donations Bill.

Committal

1. The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

2. Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Tuesday 30 October 2012.

3. The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Consideration and Third Reading

4. Proceedings on Consideration shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.

5. Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

6. Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading.

Other proceedings

7. Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of Lords Amendments or on any further messages from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Angela Watkinson.)

Question agreed to.

SMALL CHARITABLE DONATIONS BILL (MONEY)

Queen’s recommendation signified.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Small Charitable Donations Bill, it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under any other Act out of money so provided.—(Angela Watkinson.)

Question agreed to.