Baroness Williams of Trafford
Main Page: Baroness Williams of Trafford (Conservative - Life peer)Housing and Planning Bill
Baroness Williams of Trafford Excerpts
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Communities and Local Government (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)
My Lords, I beg to move that the Bill now be further considered on Report, and I hope that noble Lords will indulge me in welcoming my noble friend Lady Hanham back to her place.
Amendment 98
Lord Beecham
I join this parliamentary lovefest briefly to join others in congratulating the Minister on accepting the amendments and to pay tribute to my noble friend Lady Hayter; I do not think a doughtier champion of consumer rights could be found anywhere. This is a very satisfactory conclusion and it enables us to get on to slightly more contentious matters a little further down the Marshalled List.
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, I am not entirely sticking to a script. In saying that, though, I hope I can reflect the views of the Government accurately. I add my tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, and of course to the parliamentary draftsmen, who have turned this around so quickly. The noble Baroness and the noble Lord are experts in this area and have taught me much about it over the past few weeks. We have met them both in recent days and I have listened carefully to the points they have made.
I thank the noble Baroness for tabling this amendment following our discussion. If approved by this House, it will provide an enabling power for the Secretary of State to make regulations by affirmative procedure to require letting agents and property management agents to belong to a client money protection scheme. It will also provide a clear enforcement mechanism, which is important for ensuring that this regulation has teeth.
The Government have already shown our commitment to taking steps on this issue, committing to a review of the transparency legislation, which includes a requirement for letting agents to be transparent about whether they offer client money protection, and to work with the sector to explore the detailed options for regulation. However, it is important that we ensure that the regulation is balanced and does not overburden the sector, and that we get the detail of the legislation right and do not rush into it. So the review will be important in informing the details of the regulation, and I am very happy to give my assurance that the Government will act on its findings at the earliest opportunity.
There has been some discussion about “must”, “shall” and “may”. I have almost lost track of where we got to on the amendment, but I think we were satisfied on the balance of “must”, “may” and “shall”. Still, in no way does that lessen our commitment to the issue at hand.
I inform the House that the Housing Minister and I have asked the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, and the noble Lord, Lord Palmer, to play a key role in the review of client money protection and transparency, reflecting their knowledge of and commitment to these issues, and I am very grateful that they have agreed. I hope that, with those points in mind, noble Lords will agree to support the amendment. I think that is the first time I have said that in this housing Bill.
Baroness Young of Old Scone (Lab)
My Lords, the noble Lord has just pointed out some very germane issues that go to the heart of the concerns that led to this amendment. It seems to me that there is a lack of clarity about why we are trying to introduce a permission in principle proposition. Therefore, I very much support the concerns that my noble friend has raised in moving this amendment.
It would be slightly amusing, if it were not so serious, to watch the stately dance we have all gone through in getting to the point that we have. I have become an aficionado of the Delegated Powers Committee’s reports, which I would never have said before. In fact, I am waiting with bated breath for the next one. I do not know whether noble Lords have noted that a touch of irony has inserted itself into the titling of the committee’s reports: the first was simply called Housing and Planning Bill: Government Amendments, and the next was called Housing and Planning Bill: Further Government Amendments. I am assuming that the next one will be called “Housing and Planning Bill: Even Further Amendments”. This stuff is getting more gripping than “The Archers” as the days go by, and that is entirely as a result of this being a half-formed principle with very little meat on its bones. We are all rather grappling with confusion about what the whole thing is aimed at.
I have real concerns that we are putting in the Bill an ability to grant permission in principle for any type of development in future if its sites are named in a qualifying document such as a local plan, a neighbourhood plan or a register. We already know that the Government have in mind not just a brownfield register but a small-sites register. Indeed, in her response to the Delegated Powers Committee, the Minister talked about wanting—“for example”, she said—the ability to extend the permission in principle proposal to retail or commercial sites. I kind of understand the argument that there is a need to pull something out of the hat to try to get housing sites through more quickly. However, so far, nobody has told me what the arguments are in respect of retail or commercial sites. Therefore, it seems rather rash if we pass legislation without being clear about the fundamental reasoning for changing something that is fundamental to the way that the planning process works. Indeed, were we to allow a proposal that permission in principle could be for any type of development if it were on a site in a qualifying document, we would be radically reforming the planning system.
The Minister says that that is in the interests of the plan-led system. However, staying with the Delegated Powers Committee, which is unconvinced by the Government’s arguments, I am unconvinced that it needs to be such a wide power. Indeed, it is such a wide power that the three statutory instruments that will follow to give additional flesh to the proposal are, in the case of the permission in principle provision, going to be by negative procedure. Therefore we will have no opportunity in this House to do very much other than confirm or reject. These powers are too wide and sweeping for a proposition that we ought to test on something for which there is an acknowledged need—for example, housing-led development. If my noble friend’s amendments are not quite right in their wording, I urge the Minister to recognise that there is genuine concern in this House about this proposal and to come back at Third Reading with amendments that would satisfy both the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee and Peers around this House.
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, I am pleased to have the opportunity to open further discussion on the permission in principle measure today. I appreciate the time and effort that noble Lords have invested, in particular the noble Lords, Lord Beecham and Lord Kennedy, and the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, in considering its detailed implications. I am grateful that they have shared their experience and expertise, which have proved extremely helpful in ensuring that permission in principle operates as effectively as possible.
In a moment, I will explain our government amendments to Clause 136 and why I believe they demonstrate that the Government have listened to the views expressed in Committee and have taken action accordingly to improve the functioning of this measure. However, given that we have some further amendments on it, I shall briefly remind noble Lords what the Government are seeking to achieve and why we believe it is a worthwhile measure that should remain part of the Bill.
We know that there is concern in the industry about the lack of up-front certainty in the current planning system. In Committee, I highlighted issues around the cost of submitting outline and full applications without confirmation of the acceptability of the principles between plan-making and planning application stage. All these have been raised with my department by the Planning Officers Society, the Home Builders Federation and the Federation of Master Builders, and I highlighted that even last summer’s Lyons review recommended an approach where the principle of development is established earlier. Permission in principle seeks to respond to these concerns by making the planning process more certain and more efficient. It will help provide a way for small builders to enter the market and for locally supported plan development to get under way faster.
I explained at length in Committee that local authorities and neighbourhood forums would be in the driving seat when it came to choosing to grant permission in principle. I gave strong confirmation that the approach taken to granting permission in principle would be in line with local policy and the National Planning Policy Framework.
I hope that these brief comments have given noble Lords an update on the value of the measure. Alongside some of the amendments that we are laying to provide greater certainty on the use of permission in principle, I hope that this is enough to persuade the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, to reconsider their opposition to the clause.
Lord Beecham
The noble Baroness seems to be speaking to amendments in the next group.
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, I am just giving a brief overview and shall now move on to the amendments. They were introductory remarks—scene-setting, if you like—and I shall now speak to Amendments 102C, 102D and 102E. I may have been a little premature in some of my remarks, but they were intended to be helpful; I am sorry if it is felt that I have been a little ahead of myself.
I am keen to touch on the merits of permission in principle and to set out the amendments that the Government are making today. However, I shall turn first to the amendments tabled and comments made by the noble Lords, Lord Beecham and Lord Kennedy, that would restrict the granting of permission in principle.
Although I understand why the noble Lords have returned with the amendments, I must set out why we cannot accept them. First, and most importantly, Amendment 102D would limit the granting of permission in principle to brownfield land, as my noble friend Lord Lansley said. During the passage of this Bill, the Government have been consistently clear that permission in principle is a measure that aims to strengthen the local plan-led system and ensure that development takes place on sites that people want to see built. The amendment therefore represents an unnecessary restriction on the Government’s desire to bring forward development where it is considered to be appropriate locally.
In Committee, I gave strong assurances that the choice about where to grant permission in principle would be a local one, guided by local policy and the NPPF. To put it very clearly, restricting the granting of permission in principle to brownfield sites would remove the ability for local authorities to grant permission in principle to other sites that they considered perfectly suitable for housing-led development, in line with local and national policy. The amendment would remove local discretion and severely limit the usefulness of the measure.
Secondly, Amendments 102C and 102E would limit the type of development suitable for a grant of permission in principle to “housing led” development. We have been consistently clear that we intend permission in principle to be limited to housing-led development and will specify this in secondary legislation. The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, referring to the DPRRC report, brought up a pertinent point and asked whether PIP could be granted for other uses. I have never sought to mislead the House, and I do not think that the noble Lord was suggesting that I was, but that we have been consistently clear that PIP is for housing-led development and that will continue to be the case under this Government. Clearly, we cannot hold future Governments to account, but we have made it clear that this is the Government’s intention. One of the DPRRC’s concerns was “What about future Governments?”, but this Government are absolutely clear that this will continue to be their intention.
Lord Shipley
Given what the Minister has just said about the measure being for housing-led development, does that mean that the Government are accepting Amendment 102C, which would simply insert the words “housing led”?
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, I am afraid it does not, because the amendments limit the type of development suitable for granting of permission in principle to housing-led. We intend it to be housing-led and will specify that in secondary legislation.
Lord Shipley
Can I be clear that the secondary legislation will be via the affirmative procedure rather than the negative procedure?
Baroness Young of Old Scone
The supplementary information that we received from the Minister’s department indicated that it would be a negative-procedure statutory instrument, unless I am misreading what she sent to me.
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, I apologise to the House because I have just made a statement that was not true. The Government do intend for it to be by negative procedure.
Putting something in the Bill does not allow the same flexibility as something being in secondary legislation. Moreover, we are currently consulting on the definition of “housing led”. It is important for us to set out the definition of what constitutes “housing-led development” in secondary legislation.
Baroness Andrews
The Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee advised the Government not to make policy while consultation was ongoing, which the Minister is now doing. The definition of “housing led” is clearly so liable to raise confusion that it should surely be on the face of the Bill
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, that is why we are reluctant to place something in the Bill while consultation is ongoing. I do not know whether we agree on that point for different reasons, but I shall let noble Lords further intervene.
Lord Beecham
I am sorry to return to the remarks that the Minister made in paragraph 36 of the response to the committee, but they are crucial. Will she clarify her stance now? She said then:
“I consider it to be reasonable for … other uses, such as retail or commercial space, where there is no housing element. There is no restriction on the types of development for which full or outline planning permission may be granted”.
That is not consistent with what she is now saying is the policy—that development should be housing led. The response to the Delegated Powers Committee makes it clear—or made it clear at that point—that it was not confined to housing-led development. That is why my Amendment 102C seeks to include that concept in the Bill. I am perfectly happy to abandon the latter two of my amendments because the first deals with the point which, as far as I can understand it today, seems to be the Government’s policy. But it was apparently not the policy when the reply was made to the Delegated Powers Committee.
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, I have paragraph 36 before me, and it refers to future uses. But I have always been clear that the intention under this Government was for this to be housing led.
Lord Beecham
I accept the Minister’s word for that, but that is all the more reason to build it into the Bill. All she has to say is, “We accept that”, and that is it. It confirms what is apparently the Government’s policy today, yet it was not the policy reported to the Delegated Powers Committee.
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, I can confirm today that it is the Government’s intention to have housing-led development. As I said to the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, because the question of what “housing-led” might be is under consultation, I urge caution in placing such a definition in the Bill at this stage. We can put a suitable definition into secondary legislation.
I am well aware that there has been some misinformation about granting development involving fracking and other types of development for permission in principle. I hope that the government amendment tabled today that will prohibit granting permission in principle for development related to the,
“winning and working of materials”,
reassures noble Lords in that regard. With that, I urge the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Shipley
Will the Minister just clarify something? The forthcoming group of Government amendments do not mention the word “housing” at all. Have I read them correctly? We have been asked to wait to consider the next set of government amendments, but I do not think that they are relevant to this situation.
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, I hope that noble Lords will feel that they are relevant. With that, as I say, I ask the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.
Lord Beecham
My Lords, I am not prepared to withdraw the amendment. I am sorry that the Minister is in such a tangle. I suspect that it is because she has not been properly advised either before today or indeed today. We seem to be clear that housing-led development is to be the principal purpose of this amended planning regime of permission in principle. I accept for the moment, although it is regrettable, that we do not have details of what housing-led development might amount to, but at the very least it must mean that housing will be part of the development. However, that was not confirmed in the response to the Delegated Powers Committee.
As in so many cases during the course of this Bill, it would have been much better if we had had a clearer indication of how the thing is expected to work in practice, but the principle at least should be enshrined in the Bill. Although that is not the full story, it would leave the Government to come back through secondary legislation—preferably affirmative—to specify what is meant by housing led. What it cannot mean is a development with no housing on it, by definition. Beyond that, there is scope for discussion and argument. I understand that the Minister is not in a position to give clear indications of proportions and the like at this stage, but the principle ought to be on the face of the Bill. Accordingly, I wish to test the opinion of the House.
“( ) But permission in principle may not be granted for development consisting of the winning and working of minerals.”
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, it is my pleasure to turn to the government amendments we are making to the permission in principle measure. Again, I must emphasise that these demonstrate that the Government have listened closely to the concerns expressed and have taken clear action to improve the functioning of the measure.
In Committee I set out the Government’s clear view that development involving fracking would not be suitable for permission in principle. To press home this assurance even further, Amendment 103 will set out in the Bill the type of,
“development consisting of the winning and working of minerals”,
which cannot be granted permission in principle. This definition encompasses development that may involve fracking, so I hope noble Lords will agree that this amendment is positive and a helpful clarification which should form part of the Bill.
I turn now to government Amendments 104 to 106. The Government have been consistently clear that only documents that have been through robust processes such as consultation and site assessment will be capable of granting permission in principle and that these would therefore be limited to local plans, neighbourhood plans and new brownfield registers. During the debate on this measure in Committee, the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, tabled an amendment that sought to specify these documents in the legislation, which he felt would be an improvement to the Bill. In the light of his comments, I agreed that I would reflect further on the need for an appropriate amendment that lists and limits the qualifying documents capable of granting permission in principle. I hope that the noble Lord will be pleased to see that the amendments achieve this by setting out the specific documents capable of granting permission in principle. These are:
“a register maintained … under section 14A of the Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004”,
introduced by Clause 137 of this Bill;
“a development plan document within the meaning of Part 2 of the 2004 Act … a neighbourhood development plan”.
I hope the amendment demonstrates that the Government have listened to the call for greater clarity on how PIP will be used and that it will be welcomed by noble Lords.
I turn to government Amendment 106A, which contains two further changes to the permission in principle measure. First, the amendment will enable local authorities to vary the start date and end date of permission in principle granted on allocation. It will give greater local flexibility and allow the timings for permission in principle to better align with planning delivery of sites. The amendment will also allow local authorities to vary the end date of permission in principle granted on application. It aims to mirror Section 91 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990, which currently allows local authorities to vary the timing of planning permission. We will set out the prescribed period for the duration of permission in principle in secondary legislation, which will apply if local authorities choose not to set the length of permission in principle themselves.
Secondly, the amendment will extend our statutory guidance power to enable the Secretary of State to issue guidance on how local authorities should handle the technical details of the consent process. It is important that we make it as clear as possible for local authorities, developers, statutory bodies and the general public how the new permission in principle system and the resulting technical details consent stage should work. The guidance will also help to make permission in principle fully accessible to all users, thereby placing strong expectations on how, where and in what circumstances permission in principle and technical details consent can be granted.
I hope noble Lords agree that issuing guidance will inevitably prove helpful by maximising the clarity and overall success of these measures, and that the amendments will therefore become part of the Bill. I hope also that these amendments resolve some of the concerns expressed during consideration in Committee. In the light of my introductory comments, I hope noble Lords will see the value of these measures and support them. I beg to move.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
My Lords, Amendment 107ZZB in this group, in my name and that of my noble friend Lady Andrews, would delete Clause 136 from the Bill. The clause is concerned with permission in principle and was debated at some length in Committee in your Lordships’ House. Permission in principle is a major change in how we approve developments. It has, of course, been suggested that the supply of new homes is being held back due to the planning process and the failure to get planning applications approved. That is complete nonsense which has been cited by one or two noble Lords in debate on this issue in recent times.
I tabled a Question to the Government on this issue and received a reply from the noble Baroness, Lady Williams of Trafford, on 4 April. In her reply the noble Baroness confirmed that there were planning permissions for 658,000 homes in England where work was either not started or not completed. That is a large number of approvals. As a local councillor I have approved some of those applications over the last two years. In the area where I live I regularly note sites for which I have been party to approving an application for housing but nothing has happened. All that has happened on one site is that, a few days after the committee gave permission for housing, a “for sale” board went up saying, “for sale with full permission for housing and two shops”. That is all that has happened since we gave permission well over a year ago.
That is not the local planning authority dragging its feet or attempting to stifle development; no, there are other factors at play here which this clause does nothing about. It is about the value of land and the price it is rising at. It can also be about the ability to raise finance to undertake a development. It is not about a planning authority dragging its feet. We very much support building new homes, although we may seek to do it in a different way. We want to see brownfield sites brought back into use for housing and other ancillary and alternatives uses, but we have concerns about what will be built, in terms of design, space, energy efficiency and affordability. We want to see a range of tenures and the building of viable, long-term communities.
Government Amendment 106A confers additional powers on the Secretary of State. I draw the attention of the House to the 28th report of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee—in particular, the section concerning Amendment 106A which starts at the bottom of page 1 and carries on to page 2. The report concludes:
“Inadequate and incomplete provisions of proposed primary legislation cannot be excused on the basis that consultation has not taken place or that the Government wish to retain ‘flexibility to set out differing timeframes as they apply in different contexts’. The policy should have been finalised following appropriate consultation before, not after, the Bill was introduced.
We therefore consider that the delegation of power in the proposed new Section 59A(8) inserted by amendment 106A is inappropriate, and that the duration of permission in principle should instead be specified on the face of the Bill. An alternative approach, although we think that this is a less satisfactory option, would be to specify the maximum duration on the face of the Bill, coupled with an affirmative procedure power to provide for a shorter period”.
That is damning criticism by the committee and the Government should take heed of it.
To help matters along, I make the following offer to the Government. If the noble Baroness, Lady Williams of Trafford, will withdraw the amendment today with a view to reflecting on the concerns raised by the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee and bringing an amendment back at Third Reading that takes those concerns on board, then in the same spirit we will not test the opinion of the House on our Amendment 107 in the next group, in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Beecham. Instead, we will wait to see whether we can get an amendment that addresses the concerns raised in the report. It is for the Minister to decide what to do and I hope the noble Baroness will take up this offer made in the spirit of wanting to get this right.
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this short debate. Let me clarify that the Government do want to get this right. We do not want PIP to be a disincentive to building homes or create risk in the system. I take on board what the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, says about the comments of the DPRRC. I am very willing not to move Amendment 106A for the time being, and to use the next few days to perhaps bring something back at Third Reading.
Lord Lansley
My Lords, I contribute briefly in respect of Amendment 107ZZA simply to say that I did not agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, on her criticism of permission in principle. I think it will enable certainty to be given and the process to be speeded up. Certainty about how the system works is needed not only for the developer but for the community. I am sure many noble Lords will be familiar—as I have been—with the process, whereby communities often find it intensely difficult to understand that, at the same moment that they have to debate the principle of development, and maximise their subsequent effectiveness, they also have to think about what the subsequent conditions might be and the mitigation of effects. In their minds, they often want the two things to be separate. They feel, understandably, that—through the extent to which they offer recommendations to local planning authorities about modifications to an application, compromises that can be reached, mitigation that can be entered into and conditions to be imposed—they are opening the door to the principle.
I think that here we could have something that, to local communities, is much more rational. In the local plan process, they should devote themselves to the question of whether development in principle should happen in a particular site, knowing that subsequently, through the technical details consent, in so far as there is necessary mitigation—for example, something like the environmental assessment should establish whether development in principle is right on a site—a detailed impact assessment should be able to identify what is required by way of mitigation. For a local community, these are two completely rational, separate processes. They have to be sure—this comes to the point of the noble Baroness’s amendment—that they will get adequate notification and an opportunity to express their view about what that mitigation should look like in the technical details consent. I know my noble friend is very much aware of this and I hope she will be able to give the reassurance that the noble Baroness is looking for.
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, I voice my thanks, again, for the time taken by noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, in trying to get right this aspect of the legislation and ensuring that permission in principle is as effective as possible. In Committee, I outlined the rigorous process of consideration and engagement that would be followed before granting permission in principle. In that context, I highlighted that I thought a situation where no scheme could be delivered in line with the permission in principle agreed on site, owing to unforeseen circumstances discovered at the technical details consent stage, would be highly unlikely. The noble Baroness presses me to give examples and I cannot get this example from my mind: it is another king in a car park, but where the whole car park is made unsuitable for development and not just a part of it, which can be allowed for in certain circumstances.
I informed noble Lords in Committee that the Bill already makes provision for permission in principle granted on application to be revoked or modified by a local authority if it considers it expedient to do so in extremely rare circumstances. I also recognised that, in the case of PIP granted through a locally prepared plan or register, the Bill does not currently provide for revocation or modification in such instances and that I would reflect on the need to make such a provision. I therefore wholly welcome the amendments that the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, has tabled and strongly support their inclusion in the Bill. I also thank her for the way in which she has worked with me and officials in coming towards this stage. Amendments 107ZA, 107ZB, 107ZC and 107ZD will indeed enable local planning authorities to revoke or to modify the permission in principle granted by local plans or registers, where they consider it expedient to do so. Amendment 107ZD will also enable us to set out sensible compensation arrangements in these circumstances in secondary legislation. The amendments will extend the existing provisions that local authorities have to revoke or modify planning permissions to the permission in principle system. They will ensure overall consistency and provide an important final safeguard to address the rare and exceptional circumstances discussed in Committee, where this may be needed.
Amendment 107ZZA tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Beecham, and the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, will oblige every applicant to engage with the community on their proposals before they submit an application for technical details consent. I certainly applaud the intention to involve the community in the development of a detailed planning application. Indeed, the NPPF and our planning guidance stress the importance of applicant-led, pre-application engagement. However, the power in Section 61W of the Town and Country Planning Act, inserted by the Localism Act 2011, is currently being used only to ensure compulsory pre-application consultation for onshore wind development above an appropriate threshold. This is a targeted requirement to help ameliorate local community concerns about and perceptions of such projects. I understand that the noble Baroness has laid this amendment because she is keen to ensure effective consultation; I do not believe, however, that applying this requirement to all technical details consent applications is the right approach.
We have just finished consulting on an approach that would give local authorities the discretion to consult further at technical details stage, where they consider it appropriate. We consider this a more locally led and efficient approach to consultation that will minimise unnecessary duplication between the permission in principle and technical details consent stages. The noble Baroness asked me about the expert responses to the consultation. I understand that we have received 150 responses. The noble Baroness asked if we would place them in the Library; I am very willing to do that.
Baroness Andrews
May I just correct the noble Baroness? I thought there were 850 responses. That is not my main point—I wanted to ask whether she could lay an analysis of the consultation responses to the specific point about consultation on technical consents stage. My reading of a handful of responses—but important ones—showed that they are all very seriously worried that there will not be a requirement for local authorities to consult at that stage.
Baroness Williams of Trafford
I apologise to the noble Baroness; maybe my writing is playing up. I accept that that if there were 850 responses, there were 850 responses and my writing is possibly wrong. The Government will of course analyse the responses carefully and engage further, as appropriate.
Baroness Andrews
Is the noble Baroness saying, on that basis, that she can assure me that if the weight of opinion—by which I mean community and expert opinion—is that this is not a good idea, they will simply revert to the normal planning requirements for proper consultation?
Baroness Williams of Trafford
My Lords, I totally admire the noble Baroness for the way she is pressing me on this. At this stage, given that I have not seen the outcomes, I do not that I can make a commitment. But we will certainly analyse the results carefully and engage further, as appropriate. I hope, therefore, that the noble Baroness feels free to withdraw her amendment.
Baroness Andrews
I am happy to withdraw my amendment. I appreciate that it is not easy, not having seen the consultation, but my instinct tells me that we will get the results that I am anticipating and I hope it will make an impression on the department—you do not want to ride roughshod over local opinion. The Government have committed to localism and to supporting local authorities. I am very grateful for the support and wisdom of the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, in this respect as well. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.