Technical and Further Education Bill

Baroness Watkins of Tavistock Excerpts

Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 27th March 2017 Lords Chamber

Finally, on Amendment 1, which I highlighted at Second Reading, we are talking about many students from some of our most deprived communities—and we talk a great deal about social mobility. If their parents are entitled to tax credits—which just takes them up to a living wage—when they are encouraged to take up an apprenticeship and do so, their financial support goes. Therefore, that is a disincentive to carry on an apprenticeship. There is evidence to show that because of this disincentive, quite a number of students have not taken that opportunity. This amendment will help to ensure that we protect the very people we want to encourage to take up apprenticeships.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, I support Amendment 16, to which I have added my name. It is very clear that many young people who take out government-backed loans believe that they give a quality indication to the provider, to which they then enrol to study. It seems extremely unfair that, in the event of such a provider becoming unable to continue, they would go to the back of the queue for the repayment of their loan.

When meeting the Bill team, who have been extremely helpful, we heard evidence that everybody tries to find an alternative provider so that the student can complete their programme, and that is clearly the most desirable outcome. The most undesirable outcome is if a student is unable to complete the programme and is left with debt, even if that debt does not have to be repaid immediately. Our amendment is intended to protect students in such circumstances so that their loan is repaid by a provider if they cannot find an alternative provider with which to complete their course.

We want to encourage people to undertake this kind of technical education, and I commend the Government on their Bill because it will encourage young people to do far more local-based technical education and should get both young and more mature people into work, which, after all, is the overall aim of the Bill. Therefore, I hope that the Minister will be in a position to take this matter away and to come back with something at Third Reading that will protect students in the future.

[Lord Aberdare (CB)]

My Lords, I too will speak mainly on Amendment 16, spoken to by my noble friend Lady Wolf, although I regret that I am not able to support it, so I hope that that is not the end of a beautiful noble friendship.

I am concerned that Amendment 16 would make it harder for independent training providers, which provide a significant proportion of the technical education we so desperately need, to compete on fair terms with FE colleges. I should perhaps declare an interest as having been an independent training provider in the distant past.

The effect of the amendment as worded would be to increase the price of such courses offered by commercial and charitable contract-funded providers in order to cover the cost of underwriting the loans made to students with an external financial institution. This would mean that the cost incurred by the vast majority of loan recipients, who will not suffer curtailment of their studies due to insolvency, would increase, even if only by a relatively small percentage. It might also discourage high-quality independent providers from offering loan-funded courses, not just because of the extra cost but because of the extra administration and bureaucracy involved, thereby limiting the range of options available to learners and, as the noble Baroness, Lady Cohen, said, providing a barrier to entry for potential new providers.

The amendment would not apply to FE colleges and other bodies covered by the insolvency regime being created by the Bill, so learners at FE colleges, which might be at least as likely to fail, would be protected by a special insolvency regime without any extra cost.

FE college loan-funded courses already have the additional benefit of being exempt from VAT, so most independent providers are already likely to face a 20% cost disadvantage. Apart from that, the cost and complexity of setting up the sorts of schemes proposed in Amendments 14 and 16 seem likely to considerably outweigh their effectiveness or value. If some special provision for independent training providers were needed, it would surely be better to take a similar approach to that proposed for colleges based on government underwriting, as I believe has happened in practice in the past. Of course, in some cases, independent training providers may even be partly owned by further education colleges, as was the case with the provider First4Skills, which was 60% owned by the City of Liverpool College and had to call in the administrators. I am not clear how the amendment would address a situation such as that.

Finally, I know that many independent training providers would be happy to help put a clear mechanism in place so that learners could easily transfer to another provider if their existing provider failed. For all those reasons, I believe that the amendment is not the right way forward.

Higher Education and Research Bill

Baroness Watkins of Tavistock Excerpts

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 16th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, in the absence of the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf, I beg to move this amendment, to which I have added my name. It attempts to ensure that a proper meaning of higher education is in the Bill—the public deserve to know what the Bill means by it. In the absence of a clear definition, it is important to specify the organisations that can provide it. Universities and colleges of further education are important providers of higher education and must not be overlooked in the Bill, but there are other providers, which may be registered or unregistered. There are different criteria for registered and unregistered providers, and both have a part to play. We also need to make it clear that not all providers are universities. So, not necessarily on the face of the Bill but somewhere in the guidance, there should be clarification, as provided for in the amendment.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my interests, as declared in the register.

I support the amendment, to which I have added my name. As the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, has already pointed out, the majority of higher education will be undertaken in traditional higher education institutions, including further education colleges. Those institutions are accountable for innovative, appropriate curriculum design, as outlined earlier by my noble friend Lady Brown. It is appropriate that curriculum design includes enabling students to have degrees awarded when a proportion of their programme is either with employers or on placements. In health, for example, students need to learn in hospitals and communities, and some very innovative new approaches in higher education are associated with degree-level apprenticeships. At the University of Exeter there is an ambitious approach to the new degree-level apprenticeship schemes, which involve working with employers and their staff. The first of these programmes commenced in September 2016—a BSc honours in digital and technology solutions. It involves working with four employers, including IBM.

A degree-level apprenticeship offers a new route to achieving a university degree in collaboration with employers. Apprentices are full-time, paid employees of the business partner, but a proportion of the student’s time is spent participating in a programme, using blended learning, residential teaching blocks and assessed projects and placements.

Therefore, it is imperative that we are clear in the Bill about the definition of higher education and that we recognise that, whether it is in health or industry, part of students’ higher education experience is increasingly in a workplace. Amendment 72 would encompass, and make provision for, this approach through the definition that it provides, thus strengthening the Bill at this point.

[Baroness O'Neill of Bengarve]

My Lords, when the Minister replies, can she clarify a key term of the Bill—namely, the English higher education provider? I think we all understand—and this clause makes it very explicit—that we expect a diversity of institutions to provide higher education in England. What is unclear to me is whether English higher education providers have to be incorporated under English law. May they, for example, be incorporated under the law of the Cayman Islands? If they are for-profit organisations, may they pay their taxes—if any—there? It would be clarifying to know whether English higher education providers are to be incorporated under English law.

Grammar Schools

Baroness Watkins of Tavistock Excerpts

Wednesday 14th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

I entirely agree. Part of the proposals set out in our consultation document are to enhance choice. They are permissive, to allow local communities, parents and school leaders—if they want to—to apply to open new schools.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, it is very clear that the Government want to provide the best education that they can to the majority of pupils. The idea that people should be able to enter selective education at 11, 14 and 16 is to be welcomed. However, in the very best academies, in which we have all been investing, that is exactly what is happening. People can be streamed across, depending on their particular skills: some are not particularly good at science but brilliant at the arts and English, and vice versa. I fail to understand the need for a sudden acceleration of grammar schools rather than an investment in that kind of excellent free school and academy.

[Lord Nash]

I entirely agree with the noble Baroness about setting and streaming. I know the chief inspector is a great supporter of that. Within multi-academy trusts and groups of schools, that is so much more possible. It is important that we identify late developers. However, we believe that under our proposals, by putting more requirements on all selective schools, we can create a system that has a much wider benefit for all schools.

Grammar Schools

Baroness Watkins of Tavistock Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Nash]

I entirely agree that the coalition Government’s policy on pupil premium has been a clear success. We want an inclusive system. As I said yesterday, one of the ways that we think grammar schools can help improve their intake of pupils on free school meals, which I accept is very low, is by taking responsibility for some of their feeder primaries so they have a vested interest in them and can improve the performance of many more pupils on free school meals at an early age so that they can go to those schools. I take the point about the cut-off age of 11 and whether pupils cannot move at a later date. I assure the noble Lord that that is something we will consider and are looking at.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, I start by declaring my interest as a former chair of two academy schools—one of which involved seven pupil referral units—and as the mother of a daughter who is a teacher in an outstanding academy school in London. Can the Minister tell me whether any review will include an examination of the availability of pupil referral unit places in England? Many pupils are either excluded from school while awaiting a place, or remain in mainstream schools—at a disadvantage to themselves as individuals, while also often providing a challenge to the effective learning of other students in their classes. The most disadvantaged and needy should have equal rights to having their potential fulfilled. I firmly believe that, if we consider reintroducing selective schooling, we will need to look at both ends of the spectrum, because I am certain that grammar schools would not keep such pupils if they had problems.

[Lord Nash]

I entirely agree with the noble Baroness about alternative provision and PRUs. We have in fact created many more alternative provision free schools. There are some excellent examples in London—for example the TBAP free school in Fulham—and we are looking more closely at this area to improve alternative provision. We are also keen to make sure that provision for pupils with SEN and behavioural difficulties in all schools and academies can be well accommodated.