Licensing Act 2003 (Liaison Committee Report)

Baroness Walmsley Excerpts

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, as with many policy areas, there are complex issues to consider when devising public policy on alcohol licensing. In devising licensing regulations, the Government must take into account the balance between the well-being of people who wish to drink alcohol in moderation in a public place and those who live nearby licensed premises, against the danger that high levels of alcohol consumption can lead to criminal activity, road accidents and domestic violence, and, indeed, costs to the health service and the police. Add to this the needs of businesses that serve alcohol as part of their legitimate business model and you have a complex picture.

It is the complexity of the decisions that need to be made at a local level that led the Select Committee to urge the Government to take action to ensure greater co-ordination between the planning and licensing functions of local authorities. This evening, this Committee has heard a passionate explanation from my noble friend Lord Foster of the reasons the committee came to that conclusion. They also recommended better training for councillors engaged in making these complex decisions so that they can adequately take all these factors into account and make decisions that are right for their local area, along with a mechanism to ensure the required co-ordination.

It is disappointing that, in the Government’s response, they appear to believe that nothing further needs to be done in this respect. Instead, we got a litany of the actions the Government are taking to provide treatment for those who abuse alcohol, with serious consequences for themselves and those around them. This is shutting the door after the horse has bolted. However, I am hearing from colleagues serving on local councils that the availability of such services has been much reduced in the last few years. The funding comes from the public health grant, which has been halved. You cannot make a loaf without flour, and the Government are expecting local authorities to do too much with too little.

Is the Minister aware that 70% of local authority funding has to be dedicated to mandatory services such as children in care, elderly people who are reliant on public funding for their care, and residential care for people with physical and learning difficulties? This means that non-mandatory services, such as drug and alcohol services and others, have had to be cut. In light of all this, what progress have the Government made on the sincere recommendation of the committee for better training of councillors and co-ordination between planning and licensing?

Although licensed premises play an important role in what is called the night-time economy and keeping town centres alive, and indeed provide a lot of jobs, particularly for young people, it is the public services that bear the costs when things go wrong. One area where things have gone wrong recently is in the behaviour of people who have been drinking to excess before boarding an aircraft. There have been a number of cases where airline staff have had to delay a flight or detain or remove a passenger to avoid not just annoyance but actual danger to other passengers. It might avoid the need for this if the sale of alcohol airside was brought within the ambit of the licensing regulations. Will the Government please reconsider their intention not to act on this?

Most licensees are responsible people and carry out their business in the interests of customers and their community, but there are some who do not. The committee recommended that any future national database of licence holders should include records of refused, suspended or revoked licences to avoid such people getting licences elsewhere unless they change their ways. Will the Government ensure this happens?

About a third of the victims of domestic violence claim that the perpetrator was under the influence of alcohol when the attack occurred. This suggests that licensees have a great responsibility to stop serving someone who has clearly had enough. I understand how difficult that is, not only to make the judgment itself but to take action and ban the person, who will undoubtedly object loudly. Is the ability of the licensee to take such difficult decisions taken into account when considering renewal of his or her licence? Is there any co-ordination between the local police, who may have to deal with offenders, and the local licensing authority? The police will know which premises are the culprits, since they will often have to deal with the consequences. Are they sufficiently well trained for this duty? On the matter of alcohol-related offending, the government response promised “a National Working Group” to reduce such offending, share good practice, trail innovative solutions and ensure that “existing licensing powers” are applied in full. Can the Minister say who sits on the working group, to whom it answers and when it will report?

As we know, there has been a large increase in the amount of alcohol bought from supermarkets—we just heard that from the noble Lord, Lord Smith—especially during the pandemic. This brings us to recommendations about the use of taxation to control excess consumption. Following years of resistance, the Government have taken welcome action on high-alcohol white cider, because of its use by alcohol abusers. However, there is more to do. I welcome the Government’s commitment to review the new alcohol duties after three years but ask the Minister what further action they plan to take—for example, by reviewing the effect of minimum unit pricing in Scotland and Wales. In doing so, will they always bear in mind the needs of those licensed businesses which serve alcohol to moderate drinkers with or without a meal? They are legitimate businesses and their profits are already under a great deal of pressure.

The temporary pavement licensing scheme is to be made permanent through the levelling-up Bill. That is all very well—we all like a drink in the open air when the weather is fine—but what do local authorities get out of this extension of the premises of commercial businesses into the pavement area which they own and have a duty to clean? Will the bars pay a fee or increased business rates for the privilege of extending premises from which they make money? Local authorities are desperate for cash; might it not be a good idea to help them out a bit here?

I support what the noble Lord, Lord Holmes of Richmond, said about the danger of obstructions on the pavement to people with disabilities, particularly visually impaired people. I recently had to speak to the manager of my local Co-op, in the interests of local visually impaired people, about no less than four large free-standing advertisements on the pavement outside the shop.

I turn to access. Recently, a former colleague put a photograph on her Facebook page of her disabled husband in his wheelchair outside a new local restaurant. Unfortunately, there was no way he could get inside. She went in to ask the manager what arrangements they had made for disabled customers, and they had not made any. I got the impression that he was not too polite either. I am sure that this is not typical of managers of licensed premises and I realise that some premises might be difficult to make accessible, but they will lose customers if they do not adapt. It is quite wrong that they do not make every effort. I would like to see an access and facilities statement as a requirement in licence applications and renewals. Can the Minister say what progress has been made on the review of Part M of the building regulations regarding access if, as they say, the Licensing Act is “not the appropriate vehicle”?

Finally, the committee recommended that the late-night levy should be reviewed in consultation with the trade and the local community. It says that it is a blanket measure that may not be appropriate everywhere. When will the Government respond to this recommendation? As I understand it, they have not done so yet.

Licensed premises contribute a good deal to local economies, provide jobs and allow us all to go out, relax and enjoy ourselves—all of us, not just those with working legs. I am a great believer in a bit of joy, so I hope the Minister in responding to this debate will have inclusive joy for everyone in mind.

Women’s Safety

Baroness Walmsley Excerpts

Wednesday 8th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

I know this issue has been raised in the House of Commons recently in a 10-minute rule Bill. It is certainly a matter that the Home Office has under review, and it may be something that we hear more about later.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, what are the Government doing to encourage more intelligent and public-spirited young women to join the police force? Would that not go a long way towards making women feel that when they reported sexual abuse they would have a more understanding ear at the end of the phone? It would make women feel much safer on the streets if they knew that a female police officer might be there to help them.

[Lord Murray of Blidworth (Con)]

I entirely agree, and there is much in what the noble Baroness says. I do not, I am afraid, have the statistics to hand as to the level of women among recent recruits to the police in meeting the 20,000 target that was in the last manifesto, but I can certainly find that out and write to her.

Forensic Science and the Criminal Justice System (S&T Committee Report)

Baroness Walmsley Excerpts

Monday 26th April 2021 Grand Committee

[Baroness Walmsley (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I was not a member of Science and Technology Committee when this report was written, although I am now. I am really sorry I missed it, because it was clearly a fascinating and important investigation. However, I have read the report, which was up to the committee’s usual high standard of rigour and integrity, and the main impression I gained was that the forensic service in this country has become a shambles and, regrettably, has fallen a long way from its former high standard. The noble Lord, Lord Patel, called it, more politely, inadequate and dysfunctional. This is bad in itself, but it is a particular disaster given the fact that the science is moving so rapidly in new directions and the demand for the service is growing exponentially, particularly in relation to digital evidence.

High-quality forensic science is crucial for the operation of justice. It is important to the accused, both guilty and innocent; it is important to victims, both existing and potentially in future; it is important to the police, judges and advocates to enable them to do their job properly; it is important to juries who need confidence in the quality of the forensic evidence to allow them to be as sure as possible about their decisions; and it is important to the public on whose behalf the criminal justice system works. But it is clear that, for whatever reason, not usually the fault of those who work in the service, the service has let us all down over recent years and lost its former high reputation. The committee has done an excellent job in its report of getting to the bottom of what has gone wrong and proposing a comprehensive plan of what needs to be done to put it right.

Four aspects jumped out at me as I read the report. First, on leadership and resources, the committee led with this issue in its very first recommendation. I absolutely agree that the service needs strong leadership at arm’s length from government. The committee recommended a forensic science board to take the lead in strategy, organisation and regulation. The Government instead proposed a less independent alternative—a steering group of the Criminal Justice Board jointly chaired by the Home Office and Ministry of Justice. That is hardly arm’s length. Where is it? Does it exist? What has it done since the report in spring 2019? Do we have to wait another two years for action? Yes, we now have a statutory regulator, thanks to a Private Member’s Bill, but this is no use without adequate powers and resources.

The committee listed five powers in its recommendation 12, all of them needed to enable the regulator to ensure the quality of provider organisations and individuals, and the ability to force them to improve or remove them from the service as necessary. It is outrageous that some providers are currently unregulated and some so-called expert witnesses not adequately qualified. The Government did not agree with these recommendations, but I believe that a regulator needs teeth, otherwise how can he or she do the job? It is nearly 10 years since the Government promised that the regulator would have such statutory powers, a time lapse which the committee described as embarrassing. Can the Minister assure us that the Government will take appropriate action so that it is no longer embarrassed?

On resources, following the disastrous cuts to legal aid, the committee heard that the defence sometimes lacks the ability to commission its own forensic testing where the evidence is disputed and, on the prosecution side, the police need adequate resources to build their case. Some police forces use their own labs, some put the work out to private providers and some a mixture of the two. But if you are going to put a public service out to the market, you have to show private providers that there is a stable business there in which they should invest. As the committee’s evidence shows, the market is fragile and some providers may close down. The Government’s response is to reform procurement policy. This sounds to me like saying, “If we don’t like the price of butter, we can go to a different supermarket.” Can the Minister tell us what it actually means apart from an attempt to get more for less?

Secondly, it is currently unclear where accountability lies in government. I echo the question from the noble Lord, Lord Patel: can the Minister say clearly where accountability lies now? Is it with the steering group or whichever department happens to be in the chair at the time? There is also a lack of co-ordination. The committee proposed that the new FSB should work with the regulator and the proposed national institute for forensic science to ensure standards, strategy and co-ordination. Can the Minister say how the Government’s alternative structure will do that?

Thirdly, on research and forward planning, it is vital that there is a mechanism to look ahead and plan for investment in research into new forensic methods and, where appropriate, the use of artificial intelligence and automation and the practicality of how these can be integrated into the service. In the past, the development of and confidence in DNA evidence has allowed former miscarriages of justice to be corrected and unsolved crimes to be laid at the doors of the perpetrators at last. If resources are not put into the development of new forensic science, there will be more miscarriages of justice and unnecessarily unsolved crimes. Victims are always the ones to suffer for this but so does the whole of society. This is where the committee’s recommendation 21 of a national institute for forensic science within UKRI comes into the picture. Without such an expert group to do the horizon-scanning and ensure the funding for the correct areas of research, the rogues will always be way ahead of the forces for good.

That brings me to staffing. The service does not just rely on new methods but on high-quality staff. Where are the planning and resources for staff training? Recommendation 13 and others cover this. The proposed forensic science board would have the responsibility, together with the College of Policing and the Chartered Society of Forensic Sciences, to develop a strategy for the ongoing training of all forensic science practitioners, including those who provide expert evidence in court, as well as providing CPD on forensic science for practising lawyers. Given the rise in digital crime, it is essential that more staff qualified in this area are recruited. What system do the Government propose for the staff planning and training function, and why is it better than the committee’s recommendations?

Finally, on confidence, the noble Lord, Lord Patel, has outlined the delay and inadequacy of the government response. It makes me wonder whether this indicates a lack of interest on behalf of the Government or perhaps a lack of understanding of the role forensic science plays in building the confidence of the public in our criminal justice system. Does the Minister agree that a high reputation for forensic science can have a beneficial effect on the willingness of the public to co-operate with the police? It can also affect the prevalence of crime, deterring potential criminals as well as catching them. Police chiefs, in their evidence to the Committee, did not show that they have confidence in the Government’s response to the report. If they do not have confidence in the system, who can?

Children: Online Grooming

Baroness Walmsley Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I have to say to my noble and learned friend that in local authorities, particularly when local authority systems are being used, there are firewalls to prevent some types of abuse, but if a child has a smart phone with such things as Messenger or Snapchat on it, it is incredibly difficult for local authorities to keep tabs on children who are at the end of such coercive behaviour. The noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of Cradley, talked about the online harms Bill next year: that is going to be crucial, because it will place a duty of care on service providers and social media platforms to actually protect vulnerable people from this sort of thing.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD) [V]]

My Lords, following up on the Minister’s reply to the noble Lord, Lord Harris of Haringey, she may be aware that industry compliance in taking down child abuse images fell by 89% in the first month of lockdown. What tools are the Government using, or threatening to use, to ensure that social media companies such as Facebook design and deliver platforms and services that put child protection front and centre?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I can guess at several of the factors, but one might be the ever-increasing use of encryption, so that not only can parents not see what their children are doing, but nor can the local authority or, actually, the internet providers themselves. This is at the heart of what the Home Secretary and Five Eyes partners are trying to discourage going forward.

Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

Baroness Walmsley Excerpts

Monday 22nd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, the Home Secretary speaks every day to operational partners—the NCA, the police and the NPCC. It is not just that we are aware of the dangers of children being at home with their computers and not at school; significant effort has been undertaken to mitigate some of the potential for harm to children over this period. As for production of the report, that will come in due course.

[Baroness Walmsley (LD) [V]]

My Lords, on 10 September 2018, the noble Lord, Lord Agnew, promised, in response to my question about an extra seminar on mandatory reporting, that

“the Government are committed to ensuring that legislation can adequately deal with this”—[Official Report, 10/9/18; col. 2093.]

issue, and would scope it fully “during the current Parliament”. Has that scoping taken place and, if so, what was the result?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

I cannot answer on behalf of my noble friend Lord Agnew but I will certainly get him to respond to the noble Baroness.

Child Sex Predators

Baroness Walmsley Excerpts

Thursday 4th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Walmsley (LD)]

My Lords, will the Government provide the 10% of funding for the UK Safer Internet Centre currently provided by the European Union after the end of the transition phase of leaving the EU? Childnet gets 50% of its funding from the EU, so is even more vulnerable.

[Baroness Williams of Trafford]

My Lords, efforts to combat CSA come from a number of funding sources, from the Home Office and elsewhere, and various NGOs. We will base our funding decisions on the best needs of children in this country and how to keep them safe.