Children and Families Bill

Baroness Sharp of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 4th November 2013 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees]

My Lords, if Amendment 137 is agreed, I cannot call Amendment 138 by reason of pre-emption.

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford (LD)]

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 138, 146, 166, 174, 205AA and 205AB, which are all in my name and in this group.

Amendments 138, 146, 166 and 174 pick up the issue spoken about by the noble Lord, Lord Touhig; namely, they are about age and the wording that one sees in, for example, Clause 36(10). Rather than eliminating Clause 36(10), we seek to replace,

“have regard to his or her age”,

with,

“ensure that he or she will have sufficient time and support in education to make a successful transition to adulthood”.

There is in fact a slight mistake in the Marshalled List, which reads “transfer” rather than “transition”. The amendments have the support of the Association of Colleges, Ambitious about Autism and the Association of National Specialist Colleges, Natspec.

The view of those organisations, and my view, is that the Bill genuinely wants to ensure that young people with special educational needs have all the opportunities that they need to get the best out of education. The publicity around it has made much of the nought-to-25 system that is being introduced. It has also made much of the need for personalisation, which the amendments reflect. The aim of the amendments is therefore to ensure that the individual needs of the young person are recognised through the planning process, and that decisions about continuing their learning are made on the basis of need rather than an artificial link to their age.

One of the points mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, is that there has been something of a tendency to think that, because the ages 18 and 25 are mentioned, these are the appropriate points rather than anywhere between those two ages. We are concerned that parents will feel that they have to battle to get a place beyond 18 in order that their son or daughter may stay until they are 25, setting up perhaps inappropriate expectations that they will continue through to 25 when it might be more appropriate for them to move into looking after themselves at an earlier age.

There are many reasons why a young person with special educational needs might need to be in education beyond the age of 18. Their learning difficulty may mean that they take longer to learn, practise and consolidate their skills. They may need additional time to become more autonomous learners, moving away from a situation where support is very hands-on to support that promotes their independence. They may need to learn how to use technology that can support this autonomy. Young people with special educational needs often mature later than their peers, and it is not until they move into a more adult environment that they really make a step towards more effective learning and taking on greater responsibility.

They may acquire the information and understanding to make informed choices about their future only once they have moved beyond school. Take, for example, the case of Chris, who has Asperger’s syndrome and major communication issues. He switched to college at the age of 16. In supported learning at college, Chris gained the confidence and skills required to progress into mainstream education. He has completed the bronze Duke of Edinburgh award, which he started when he first joined the college. He also started, in supported learning, on a next steps course for two years, progressed to a level 1 foundation course in IT, has steadily worked his way through level 2 and level 3 and is now completing his UCAS statement, with the aim of going to university next September.

Time spent to ensure that young people are well prepared to move into adult life pays dividends for them, their families and, ultimately, for the public purse. The National Audit Office report, Oversight of Special Education for Young People Aged 16-25, which was published in November 2011, stated:

“Equipping a young person with the skills to live in semi-independent rather than fully supported housing could, in addition to quality-of-life improvements, reduce these lifetime support costs by around £1 million. Supporting one person with a learning disability into employment could, in addition to improving their independence and self-esteem, reduce lifetime costs to the public purse by around £170,000 and increase the person’s income by between 55 and 95 per cent. If properly focused and effective, therefore, investment in special education should provide long-term returns”.

I cite the example of Shaun. Shaun first studied on an ACE course, which is a transition programme, at college. He had very low self-confidence and complained about being bullied. Although matters were resolved, Shaun requested a move to another college. Shaun started off very quietly at the new college, but gradually built up his confidence and became more sociable and responsible through the year. After completing his year on the ACE course, he was confident enough to join a mainstream course. He then completed an entry award in motor vehicles, went straight into full-time employment in motor vehicles and is now self-supporting.

This set of amendments ensures that local authorities and others taking, or helping to take, decisions on behalf of those young people will focus on outcomes that support the transition to adulthood—the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Touhig. There is much evidence to show that a successful outcome is linked to an effective learning programme geared to the needs of the young person, not artificially linked to age. I believe that that is the basic intention behind the Bill and, in that respect, this set of amendments is wholly in line with it. I very much hope that the Minister will be sympathetic to them.

Amendments 205AA and 205AB relate to Clause 66, which enables the Secretary of State to collect and publish information on children and young people with special educational needs who are under the age of 19. The amendments would extend that provision to the age of 25. Once again, it is a question of recognising that many young people with special educational needs need help and support through to 25. If the Government are genuine in their intention to create a comprehensive nought-to-25 system, it must include arrangements to monitor the outcomes for 19 to 25 year-olds. Indeed, the success or otherwise of the Government’s policies in this area will ultimately be accurately and appropriately measured only in the education, employment and independent living achieved by young people in that age group.

Officials have suggested that the reluctance to include 19 to 25 year-olds is driven by a desire not to increase administrative burdens on colleges, which is a particular policy concern of the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. However, the Association of Colleges, which has asked me to table the amendments, has stated its willingness for the age range to be extended. It is not clear that the extension would necessitate any new data collection, as it asks only that colleges report on existing data collected under the individualised learning record.

[Baroness Cumberlege (Con)]

My Lords, I have three amendments in this group. As this is the first time that I have taken part in Committee, although I took part on Second Reading, I have been told that I should declare my interests, which are in the Lords register. In particular, this afternoon, I should like to declare my non-pecuniary interest as the chairman of the trustees of the Chailey Heritage Foundation. The foundation is a non-maintained special independent school with a registered children’s home. It works in partnership with a clinical facility, run by the NHS on the same site, and it has just launched a transition service for 19 to 25 year-olds. Some of these young people will continue from Chailey and others will come from a much wider area. This is the group to which my amendment refers.

Seeing is worth a thousand words, so I am particularly grateful to my noble friend who, during the very precious Recess, came to meet the children, young people and staff at the foundation. His visit had a profound effect on those he met, and I think it is fair to say—I hope the Minister will agree—that the occasion was of mutual benefit. My noble friend met some very severely disabled young people. I was interested in the examples given by the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp. The young people at Chailey are not of that sort at all: they are much more severely disabled. However, they do well at school, within the limits of their disabilities; some have 15 or more medications a day and none of them can walk or power their wheelchair unaided. Our ambition for these young people is that, having had a very worthwhile, stimulating education, which Ofsted says is outstanding—something that we are very pleased about—they should then benefit from this education.

They have some understanding but very limited, or no, speech and have learnt to communicate through different means, often using sophisticated modern technology. They have acquired some knowledge of how to operate in society. We believe that they should participate in their own lives and not be consigned to a wasted life in a nursing or residential home. Despite their very complex needs, we have plans for four of our young people to move into assisted living and we are seeking some sort of employment for them, although we realise that it will be very limited. The noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, mentioned the National Audit Office review. I agree that saving money in the long term depends on the initial education of these young people. Semi-independent, rather than fully supported, housing can save considerable money in the long term.

I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Patel and Lord Low, and noble Baronesses, Lady Jones and Lady Hughes, for supporting Amendments 170, 171 and 173. I was hoping to see the name of the noble Lord, Lord Nash, on these amendments when we looked at today’s Marshalled List, but that may come in time. The amendments are very similar to others on the Marshalled List this afternoon. We all wish to see education, health and care plans continue, where appropriate, to the age of 25. I was encouraged by the follow-up letter, written by my noble friend after Second Reading, in which he recognised that some people with special educational needs require more time to complete their education beyond the age of 18: as we all know, they generally learn more slowly than other young people. Having been a Minister, I appreciate the Government’s concern about legislating.

We understand that there could be an expectation that every young person with SEN would have an entitlement to education up to the age of 25, regardless of whether they were ready to make or had already made a successful transition into adult life. Those of us who have brought up children, or worked with children and young people, know that our task is not complete by 19. The years between 19 and 25 are also very formative; it is a time of experimentation, finding limits and testing boundaries. We do not expect a 19 year-old to settle down into adult life or decide where they are going to live for the rest of their life. Young adults with complex needs are different, in that they require very intensive support. They have to make this transition and develop a sense of themselves as adults and what it means to be an adult. Creating the right environment to achieve an understanding of adult life is an important part of supporting development, and we believe that it is “educational” for those with complex needs.

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With the reassurances that I have given on these issues, I hope that the noble Lord will feel able to withdraw his amendment.

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford]

My Lords, I am not totally happy with what the Minister has said. The funny phrase,

“must have regard to age”,

is used in quite a number of clauses. He seems to be saying, “We do not want to look at age, we want to look at a successful transition into adulthood”. I do not understand why the Minister prefers his wording to actually saying that we want a successful transition to adulthood. The Minister has made the point that it is not a question of going through to 25, it is a question of when, between the age of 18 and their 25th birthday, it is appropriate for them to move into independence. I therefore do not understand why he is rejecting an alternative form of wording.

On Amendments 205AA and 205AB, I need to go back and have a look at this more carefully. My understanding is that at the moment it is not proposed to collect the data, so I was interested to hear the Minister say that they will be collecting data. I thought that they were making a distinction between schools and colleges and that they were not proposing to collect the data from colleges.

Finally, in relation to the code of practice mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Wilkins, my understanding is that it is not very helpful. If the Minister could have another look at it, I would be grateful. I thank him for his reply and hope perhaps that he can reassure me that he might look again at the wording.

[Baroness Cumberlege]

My Lords, I echo what the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, has just said. Try as I might, I am afraid that I am not totally reassured, but I am extremely grateful that the Minister has agreed to meet with those of us who have these concerns. I am sure my noble friend will appreciate that there is a very strong coalition across the Committee—I do not mean in government terms, but across the parties—and that he gets the feeling that we need to go a bit further on this. I look forward to meeting him in due course.

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[Baroness Howarth of Breckland]

My Lords, I understand exactly what the Minister means about Section 17, but I cannot understand how that relates to this piece of the Bill. When we were discussing education with the previous Government, I remember being very forceful in saying to them, “You’re saying, ‘education, education, education’, but without ‘welfare, welfare, welfare’, children will not learn”. Unless we attend to the social care needs of children, particularly those children with disabilities, we know that they will not have the facility to learn. We know that unless there is help from specialists or social workers, if you have a child with serious behavioural problems at home, they will never get into ordinary school or even be able to survive properly in remedial school, and will end up in specialist residential care. That whole range of services will be needed as part of the social care package for those children.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Hughes, said, we are encouraging the Government to look at the whole, to get the thing together, to look at welfare alongside education and to look at how the two things interrelate. Those children will all have healthcare needs as well; very few children with those sorts of disabilities will not have healthcare needs. I thought that the Government wanted to pool all those services together in the interests of those young people.

Under Section 17, one would certainly not want children needing protection or suffering from neglect falling into a different priority; the local authority must look at them across the piece. I think that the word “must” helps them to do that, but having something in the Bill for those young people at least encourages local authorities to look at the whole.

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford]

My Lords, I have added my name to Amendment 164 and I endorse what has been said on this issue by the noble Baronesses, Lady Hollins, Lady Hughes and Lady Howarth. The aim of the Bill is to create not just a special educational needs statement but something that embraces health and social care as well. It is absolutely right that we should put social care on a par with health. Clause 42(3) states:

“If a plan specifies health care provision, the responsible commissioning body must arrange the specified health care provision for the child or young person”.

The other place insisted that this subsection should be included, so it seems right that social care should be put on a par with healthcare and education in the Bill.

[Lord Nash]

My Lords, I would like to respond to this group of amendments regarding the placing of a legal requirement on local authorities to secure the social care provision specified in EHC plans. I welcome the opportunity to debate this important issue and I understand the desire to ensure that our most vulnerable children and young people receive the support that they need and are able to seek redress where necessary. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Low, my noble friends Lady Gardner and Lady Sharp and the noble Baronesses, Lady Hollins, Lady Hughes and Lady Howarth, for speaking on this matter. However, as my honourable friend the Minister for Children and Families noted in the other place, there are already important protections for children and young people aged under 18 in the existing legislative framework for social care support. That is provided in Section 17 of the Children Act 1989, and for disabled children under Section 2 of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970. Both these Acts will still apply alongside the measures being introduced in the Bill.

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[Lord Nash]

I am grateful to both noble Baronesses for their interruptions. As I said in my letter—and will now elaborate on a little—the reason is that we do not wish to imbalance the system so that giving children EHC plans results in deprioritising other children, given a climate of limited resources, which we all know —I hope—that we live in.

It is expected that any social care service specified in the EHC plan will be provided. We do not want to create a situation where local authorities specify only a bare minimum of services, because they cannot know the precise resource constraints that may apply in the future.

Noble Lords will be aware that the Bill places a duty on health commissioners—taking the point of the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth—to deliver the health elements of an EHC plan. As part of the SEN reforms, the Government have agreed to take specific action to protect children and young people with EHC plans within the newly reformed NHS. The education and health services are universal and it makes sense that there should be equivalent duties to provide the services in EHC plans. On the other hand, social care support for children in need is targeted only at those with greater needs, of whom disabled children form a significant proportion. As I said in my letter, to which the noble Baroness, Lady Hughes, referred:

“There is a greater risk that an individually owned social care duty for children with EHC plans will adversely affect other vulnerable children whose needs could be deprioritised, such as those needing child protection services or young carers”.

Social workers must be free to consider family, educational, social and environmental circumstances and local eligibility criteria when determining which services to provide. Local authorities with finite resources must be able to prioritise appropriately those children and young people with the greatest needs, whether or not they are disabled or have SEN.

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford]

I apologise for interrupting the Minister again. The amendments concerned say that it is where the plan specifies social care; it is not an open sesame to any sort of social care. If what is specified can be overruled anyhow, what is the point of having a plan that specifies it?

[Lord Nash]

As I have said, there are very significant duties around disabled children. The plan is not intended to affect that. Amendments 162, 163 and 164 would prevent such local decision-making, to which I have just referred, creating an individually owed duty prioritising the social care needs of children with SEN over the social care needs of other children in need.

Similarly, Amendments 143 and 144A should not stand. Social care provision is defined deliberately broadly in the Bill. Clause 21(4) includes any provision required under the Children Act 1989 or the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970 and therefore will be included in the design of the local offer. It is only where that provision is reasonably required by the learning difficulty or disability of a child or young person that it will have to be included in the EHC plan.

Amendments 143 and 144A would require any services provided under the 1970 Act to be included in the EHC plan. However, the vast majority of services for disabled children that are provided under the 1970 Act will be reasonably required by the learning difficulty or disability of the child and therefore must be included in the EHC plan anyway.

On Amendment 143, moved by the noble Lord, Lord Low, we are not convinced that there should be a requirement that all services provided under Section 2 of the 1970 Act must be included in EHC plans regardless of individual circumstances. EHC plans are for children and young people with learning difficulties or a disability that gives rise to special educational needs. Where this also gives rise to health and care needs, that must be included in plans so that a co-ordinated approach can be taken across services. Where there are unrelated health or social care needs, it may or may not be appropriate to also include them in an EHC plan, for example, depending on whether the child or young person would benefit from a co-ordinated service response. I believe that those decisions should be left to local professionals, in full consultation with children, their parents and young people.

At the same time, Amendment 144A would remove the important discretion the Bill gives to the local authority to decide whether provision made under Section 17 of the Children Act should be included in the plan, where it is unrelated to the child or young person’s learning difficulty or disability. This discretion is essential as there may be circumstances where the children’s interests that we are trying to meet require that we do not bind the hands of local services in this respect—for example, where there is provision related to child protection, which is highly sensitive and is not always appropriate to include in an EHC plan. Whether or not social care provision is linked to the learning difficulty or disability of the child or young person, it will continue to be provided in accordance with existing legislation.

Concerning my noble friend Lady Gardner’s point about there being a possible gap between adult and children’s social care, I reassure her that young people aged 18 and over who are eligible for adult social care will, under provisions set out in the Care Bill, have a statutory care plan. For young people with SEN, our intention is that this should form the care element of the EHC plan. Both Bills contain provisions that will significantly improve the transition between children’s and adult social care. In view of what I have said, I urge the noble Lord to withdraw his amendment.

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[Lord Lingfield]

My Lords, I have one amendment in this group, which is to Clause 37(5). It is to provide a standard form of education, health and care plan rather than use the more discretionary wording of the Bill. At the moment—and this touches on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, concerning passports for special educational needs—statements are in a standard form. If there is no similar standard form for education, health and care plans they will surely be subject to each local authority’s drafting preferences. As a result, EHC plans may not be in a consistent format and may vary widely in their level of detail. This could cause confusion and difficulty for parents and young people, especially if they move from one local authority to another. Relocation of this kind, under current economic circumstances, is becoming extremely common.

Your Lordships will have noticed, in relation to Clause 30, and the local offer, that there are strong arguments for a consistent national framework for the key tenets of the new system of assessment and provision brought in by the Bill. In addition—as the Minister reminded us when we debated Amendment 71—in his appearance before the Education Select Committee on 6 November last year my honourable friend the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families stated:

“The first thing I want to be absolutely clear about is that the current protections that parents and young people have in the current statementing system are intended to be carried forward into the new system”.

In the spirit of this, and as I sought to express in this amendment, I believe that these key duties relating to statements should remain the same for EHC plans, and that, in particular, the requirement for a standard form, and the duty to be specific about provision, should remain. I hope that the Minister will be sympathetic to this.

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford]

My Lords, my name is added to that of the noble Baroness, Lady Howe, for Amendment 147 and I endorse what she has said on this issue. Statements for special educational needs require an educational psychologist to endorse them and it is obviously sensible and important that this should be extended to the post-18 age group. I probably also should have put my name to Amendment 168 because the argument there is just as cogent and important.

While I am on my feet, I should say that I have a lot of sympathy with the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Lingfield. As he said, as we have a set format for statements of special educational needs, it would seem sensible for it to be carried forward in relation to the EHC plans.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, perhaps I may very briefly add a few words of support, particularly to the last amendment in this group. Good transference of these provisions around the country would be an opportunity for the Government to deal with a fairly ancient wrong. It has always been difficult and has always been seen as too difficult, but if we can embrace it now we will go forward and take on board something which runs through a lot of this legislation; namely, that it has genuine cross-party awareness and support at heart. Even if this amendment is not perfect—even the noble Lord can make an error in drafting—I hope that we can say something positive in this regard. If we can go forward and see how it can be addressed in the future, that would help everyone and would probably make people’s lives a little bit easier.

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Moved by

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford]

176: Clause 49, page 36, line 14, leave out “must” and insert “may”

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford]

My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendments 177 and 179 in my name. In Clause 49, we move to the issue of personal budgets and direct payments. The purpose of these amendments is to probe issues concerning direct payments and personal budgets. The Bill provides an entitlement for schools or colleges to make representations to the local authority when it is considering making a direct payment to a child or a parent. The amendment provides an alarm for local authorities to be able to exercise a judgment about whether to make an individual payment.

Clause 49 gives the parent a statutory right to require the local authority to prepare a personal budget and to meet direct payments, even in circumstances where the school or college does not think that this would be sensible or justified in terms of efficiency or economy. This is not to disparage the vital contribution that parents make, but to suggest that there will be occasions when their wishes would not necessarily be in the best interests of their children or reasonable in the context of an efficient and cost-effective system.

The case has not been made in the pathfinders that the introduction of direct payments to parents will help children with special educational needs. The evaluation of the pathfinders shows that the demand for direct SEN payments to parents has been extremely low. The evaluation states that many commentators are apprehensive about the extent to which this testing should be rolled out to a wider population. Of the 290 direct payments across the 14 case study sites in the pathfinders, 270 out of 290 dealt only with school personal transport. That means that there has been no investigation of the feasibility or desirability of making direct payments to parents for educational elements of the provision, such as the deployment of a special teaching assistant.

The pathfinder information pack acknowledges that personal budgets are more established in social care and health settings than in educational settings. The pathfinders themselves found that schools, colleges and parents were often confused about which elements of funding, in an educational context, could be used as a personal budget to give families more choice and control. The reasons cited for poor take-up are the challenges and complexities in the direct payments offer. Personal transport budgets were in fact by far the easiest to disaggregate. The pathfinder information pack acknowledges that it is essential to have a good market development strategy in place.

A remaining concern for teachers is that the fragmentation of budgets will have a detrimental effect on the viability and quality of services which pupils need to access, and will lead to a lottery of appropriate SEN provision. Teachers are also concerned about the loss of the quality assurance role carried out by local authorities and do not believe that giving individual packets of money to individual parents is the most cost-effective way to deliver the provision to meet needs. The case for direct payments, they feel, has not been proven by the pathfinders.

The warning in the evaluation report that there are reservations about the extent to which testing can be rolled out to a wider population needs to be carefully heeded. Teachers continue to have significant concerns. In a recent survey, 65% of SENCOs—the special educational needs co-ordinators in schools—were concerned about allowing parents to control funding for SEN provision. That is not because teachers fail to recognise the essential role of parents, or their unparalleled knowledge of their child’s individual needs and aptitudes; it is because teachers also recognise that teachers, schools and parents must work as equal partners, with the professional judgments and expertise of teachers respected and valued alongside the contribution from families.

The pathfinders have not, it seems, proven that to be an option that parents are demanding or which teachers have confidence can work, or will benefit the children with special educational needs whom they teach. Demand for direct SEN payments has been low, and many children’s charities believe that the introduction of individual payments will further accelerate the disintegration of specialist services, such as the support services for deaf children, which the Council for Disabled Children is campaigning to save in different local authorities. The case that direct payments will support the SEN reforms in a meaningful way has not yet been proven. I beg to move.

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[Lord Nash]

I think I will have to respond to the noble Baroness in more detail. I think the top and bottom of her point is that we will try to do it in the timescale, but I understand that that may not be possible. I will come back to her on this.

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford]

I am very grateful to the Minister for his reassurances, about the role that school or college principals might play when direct payments are proposed and it is not necessarily in the interests of either the child or economy and efficiency to proceed along that route, and that the process of decision-making will be an explicit one.

I am also glad to have the assurance that, when decisions are made, they will take account of the pathfinders and that the process will not be put into effect until the full evaluation has been made. I welcome government Amendment 269 implementing the recommendations of the Delegated Powers Committee relating to the positive agreement of the House that we should go forward with this. In the light of this, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Amendment 176 withdrawn.