Children and Families Bill

Baroness Howarth of Breckland Excerpts

Monday 4th November 2013 Grand Committee

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote (CB)]

My Lords, I also say what an absolutely splendid debate we have had so far, particularly the input from the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp, with which I agree entirely. Also, the noble Baroness, Lady Cumberlege, has given quite a new dimension to our thinking.

I have tabled a small and modest amendment in the group, Amendment 172. It is based on the fact that Clause 45 allows a local authority to cease an education, health and care plan if the outcomes set within it have been achieved. The amendment would require a local authority to continue the plan if ongoing support were needed to maintain those outcomes, so it is pretty similar to others. In effect, my amendment seeks to prevent the Bill from giving local authorities a green light to end plans prematurely, when children may still need specialist support. That issue greatly concerns the National Deaf Children’s Society, RNIB and Sense.

We must recognise that sensory impairment in itself is not a learning disability. There is no reason why most children with a sensory impairment cannot achieve as well as other children, providing that they receive the right support. What concerns me is that, without this amendment, the Bill seems to allow local authorities to remove that support just as a child is starting to make progress. It would also seemingly allow local authorities to remove that support, even if ongoing support is needed to maintain and consolidate the progress that the child has already made.

Parents have told the National Deaf Children’s Society of their frustration that their child often had to fall behind before they could get the support they needed. One parent told the NDCS that:

“Although our son made extremely good progress in his first year in his new school, this seemed to be a trigger to reduce the levels of assistance from all other departments. His speech and language therapy stopped, everything stopped. It was as if he no longer needed it and he just dropped, his development went completely backwards”.

It is that kind of scenario that the amendment is intended to prevent. Although it echoes much of what has been said already, I hope that the Minister, when he replies, can give the assurance needed for all those children.

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland (CB)]

My Lords, I shall briefly support the noble Baronesses, Lady Cumberlege and Lady Sharp, and the noble Lord, Lord Touhig. I will not repeat the excellent arguments they made. I have already declared the interest which takes me into this: that I am president of Livability. We have two colleges, Nash College and Hinwick Hall College, where we have young people with very profound needs indeed, and where the education, health and care plan will really make a difference if it is seen in the round. I know that we are going to come to that on another set of amendments, so I just flag that up.

I wanted to ask the Minister very directly if he would tell us why the age issue was in the legislation at all at that level. I have worked for many years in local authorities; I have been a chief officer and linked to local authorities in other ways, and I know that when you are short of money you scour through legislation to find exactly where you can draw the line. That is a proper thing for local authorities to do. I am a vice-president of the Local Government Association and I understand that there may well have been representations in relation to the funding for this Bill. However, that is a pity because there is so much that is excellent.

I shall refer by way of example to Clause 44 on “Reviews and Re-assessments”, where all the things we are asking for in terms of parental involvement and that of young people themselves, and making sure that the authority takes that forward appropriately, are in place. Even so, there is still a strange phrase in the middle on having regard to age. We are all worried about the long-term plans in the three areas that we hope, through other amendments, to try to bring together. I know that the Government are keen to amalgamate some of this thinking and they have done well for young carers; we have heard about what good work is going to be done in that area. I am keen to understand from the Minister what the thinking is behind the phrase.

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It does not say “must”, which is a word used throughout the code of practice elsewhere; it says “should”. That, along with the wording of Clause 42, means that the social care element will be a weak link in the arrangements for children and families. There ought to be parity of accountability and enforceability.

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland]

My Lords, I understand exactly what the Minister means about Section 17, but I cannot understand how that relates to this piece of the Bill. When we were discussing education with the previous Government, I remember being very forceful in saying to them, “You’re saying, ‘education, education, education’, but without ‘welfare, welfare, welfare’, children will not learn”. Unless we attend to the social care needs of children, particularly those children with disabilities, we know that they will not have the facility to learn. We know that unless there is help from specialists or social workers, if you have a child with serious behavioural problems at home, they will never get into ordinary school or even be able to survive properly in remedial school, and will end up in specialist residential care. That whole range of services will be needed as part of the social care package for those children.

As the noble Baroness, Lady Hughes, said, we are encouraging the Government to look at the whole, to get the thing together, to look at welfare alongside education and to look at how the two things interrelate. Those children will all have healthcare needs as well; very few children with those sorts of disabilities will not have healthcare needs. I thought that the Government wanted to pool all those services together in the interests of those young people.

Under Section 17, one would certainly not want children needing protection or suffering from neglect falling into a different priority; the local authority must look at them across the piece. I think that the word “must” helps them to do that, but having something in the Bill for those young people at least encourages local authorities to look at the whole.

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford]

My Lords, I have added my name to Amendment 164 and I endorse what has been said on this issue by the noble Baronesses, Lady Hollins, Lady Hughes and Lady Howarth. The aim of the Bill is to create not just a special educational needs statement but something that embraces health and social care as well. It is absolutely right that we should put social care on a par with health. Clause 42(3) states:

“If a plan specifies health care provision, the responsible commissioning body must arrange the specified health care provision for the child or young person”.

The other place insisted that this subsection should be included, so it seems right that social care should be put on a par with healthcare and education in the Bill.

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[Lord Nash]

The duty under Section 17 of the Children Act 1989 to meet the needs of all children in need is a general duty in recognition of the fact that social care needs are potentially limitless and that local authorities have to be free to decide how to prioritise spending on them, depending on resources. There is individually a duty under Section 2 of the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act 1970, but that too is subject to resources.

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland]

I apologise for intervening. Having been a director of social services and having had to set those priorities, I understand completely what the Minister has said, but what I do not understand here is that if all these things are already set out in statute and are “may” duties, not “must” duties, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hughes, pointed out, why can we not pull them all together in this Bill? It would make it a fine Bill rather than a good Bill. Nothing is being added if the Minister is saying that the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act and the children legislation already have these things. Are the local authorities not going to have to set their priorities anyway?

The other point I want to make is that we will have education and health but not social care; social care will again be relegated as the poor relation. I have not seen how the pathfinders have looked at this, but if they have considered them all as one, that would be a good indicator of the way forward.

[Baroness Hughes of Stretford]

Before the Minister responds, perhaps I may also give him the opportunity to deal with a point. He seems to be making a distinction between social care, special educational needs and healthcare. He said that there is a general duty in the Chronically Sick and Disabled Persons Act because social care needs, and therefore duties, are essentially limitless. That is why local authorities must be protected so that they can decide their priorities in the context of their resources. However, surely the same argument could be made about healthcare. Health needs and their care are essentially limitless, so the health service has to decide on its priorities in relation to its resources. Yet here the health service “must” provide the services set out in the plan while the same does not apply to social care. I do not see the distinction, certainly not between social care and healthcare in regard to the point about being essentially limitless.

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[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

My Lords, we have Amendments 180, 271 and 273 in this group, which I shall address. We have touched on personal budgets in a previous debate. At that time, the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, spoke movingly about some of the problems experienced by those in adult social care in managing employment challenges when they had to employ staff and the financial complexities of the budgets that they were expected to manage. We understand the concerns that have been expressed and share a number of those that were raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Sharp. We have taken a slightly different approach to the issue. In principle, we support the concept of personal budgets and direct payments, which give parents more flexibility and say over the support that their children get. It is a principle that we have supported for other forms of care in the past.

This is a new area of social policy. We feel strongly that these reforms are based on evidence and are not rushed through. As we know, the pathfinder pilots have been extended and now will not finish before the autumn of 2014. We very much appreciated the chance to meet with some of the pathfinder champions a couple of weeks ago when there were some very good examples of the improved quality of life that personal budgets could bring, as well as some of the difficulties and challenges that they presented.

It seems that the rollout of personal budgets is the least well researched and analysed, not only the impact on the individuals concerned but also on the institutions from which the services will be procured. Our Amendment 180 would build in essential time to reflect and learn from the pilots by requiring regulations to be made by affirmative resolution and a report to be published after the pathfinders have concluded, setting out the evidence and guaranteeing proper scrutiny by Parliament.

It very much feels as though we are legislating on this issue prematurely. Given that we are considering the Bill now, it is not clear how the Government plan to take account of the findings of the pathfinders. There are many things on which we remain unclear—for example, how devolving budgets will work on a practical level; how they will impact on the quality of provision and on costs; and how we can ensure that providers are reliable and accountable. It is also unclear how institutions with devolved budgets—for example, academies—can be required to make a contribution to personal budgets from their own funds. These are some of the issues that we feel need to be debated further.

As we know, interim findings from the pathfinders were published in June. In a subsequent letter, the Minister stated that they show,

“a clear appetite for parents to be involved in the decision making process and to have choice and control”.

However, he also referred to the challenges that the pathfinders faced in implementing personal budgets, particularly direct payments. He stated that the department has established an “accelerated testing group” to make progress in this area. I would be very grateful if he could update us on that work and explain how the conclusions from this group will impact on the provisions in the Bill.

The findings also made clear that there were complexities about resources being calculated and allocated. Such concerns are exactly why we think that these reforms should not be rushed through. We should take time properly to consider the evidence, and we believe that our amendment provides the mechanism to do that.

Our Amendments 271 and 273 reflect some of the concerns flagged up by the Delegated Powers Committee. It stated:

“We take the view that, because these are novel proposals and the whole system of personal budgets will be set out in the regulations, the regulations should be subject to the affirmative procedure at least in relation to their first exercise”.

We agree that these changes are too big and too significant to be dealt with by negative resolution. Our amendments would guarantee a positive decision of both Houses as these regulations go forward.

We are grateful that, belatedly, the Government have agreed with this view and have gone some way to meeting our concerns. However, we feel that our amendments are more comprehensive than those tabled by the Government. I hope that I have persuaded noble Lords that we should delay a decision on the regulations on personal budgets until the pathfinders have concluded and that noble Lords will agree to support our amendments.

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland]

My Lords, I spoke at more length than is usual for me on this when I raised it, under Clause 30, in relation to the arrangements to assist young people and parents managing a personal budget, should they choose one. I therefore wish to support the noble Baronesses, Lady Hughes and Lady Jones, on Amendment 180. It is clear that some families find that personal budgets bring them freedom, and freedom of choice, but only if they have help in understanding how to manage that budget. I agree with the noble Baronesses that this is little researched, yet we have more information from the adult services which could be looked at. Some of the problems for these young people and for the families of these children will be the same as those experienced by adults who have disabilities. There is no reason why we should not be able to gather that information together and extrapolate from it into some of these areas.

I certainly have grave anxieties about this moving forward quickly, and not only on behalf of the parents and young people. If it is not thought through, in terms of funding, there is a grave danger that educational institutions that depend on payments could find themselves unable to plan; if families have personal budgets with which to pay for the educational element, it could cause serious difficulties. I therefore support the amendment, which moves forward on personal budgets to give families freedom—where there is proper research—but takes it steady so that we do not cause even more difficulties than we already have in the adult field.

[Lord Nash]

My Lords, I would like to speak to this group of amendments concerning personal budgets and the recommendations of the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee on personal budgets and Clauses 54 and 55, on appeals and claims by children.

I first turn to Amendments 180, 271 and 273 and government Amendment 269, which respond to recommendations from the Delegated Powers and Regulatory Reform Committee.

I hope that the noble Baronesses, Lady Hughes and Lady Jones, will be pleased to note that government Amendment 269 to Clause 107 takes forward the advice of the DPRRC, as sought by Amendments 271 and 273. Amendment 269 will require affirmative resolution by both Houses of Parliament for the first order to be made under Clause 49(3) and for affirmative resolution in both Houses, in relation to Clause 54(2), on pilot schemes for appeals by children.

With Amendment 180, the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones and Lady Hughes, also seek assurance that the pilot scheme for direct payments for special educational provision will be evaluated. I am pleased to be able to reassure noble Lords that we are meeting the commitments, given when the pilot scheme was established, to evaluate the scheme. For example, the Process and Implementation Research Report on the pathfinder programme, published by the department in June, includes a standalone chapter on the testing up to March this year.

However, we recognise that there is more to learn. That is why, as the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, mentioned, we established our accelerated testing group of pathfinders, whose work has been fundamental in developing the draft regulations made under Clause 49 and section 7.13 of the draft code. It is also why we have asked the evaluators of the pathfinder programme to deliver a standalone thematic report on this subject in 2014.

The specification for the report has yet to be finalised, but it will involve in-depth work with a small cohort of pathfinders and include further research on how direct payments for special educational provision have operated. In addition to the thematic research, I should stress that this is not the only source of evidence to support this policy. A quick comparison of the indicative code, published to aid consideration of this Bill in the other place, against the consultation draft, shows how far our knowledge and understanding have developed this year. This knowledge continues to grow. Pathfinders are increasingly offering personal budgets to all new EHC plan-holders with a resultant increase in numbers. We have also recently supported the development and publication of an implementation framework, for personal budgets for children and young people, by In Control and SQW, the pathfinder evaluators that are widely acknowledged to be the experts in this field.

We are therefore confident that we will have the knowledge and understanding to make the regulations ahead of the initial implementation of our reforms in September 2014, while accepting through my Amendment 271 that the House must have the opportunity to debate this issue further before we do so.

I turn to Amendments 176, 177 and 179. I completely agree with my noble friend Lady Sharp that schools, colleges and other institutions need to retain control where provision is delivered on their premises. I hope that Regulation 11 in the draft regulations to be made under Clause 49 reassures my noble friend, as it states:

“A local authority may not make a direct payment in respect of agreed provision which will be used or provided in a school or post-16 institution unless the head teacher, principal or the person occupying an equivalent position at the school or that institution agrees”.

Amendment 179 brings the issue of transparency to our attention. I agree that this is extremely important and is a key point of learning from the pathfinder programme, in relation to personal budgets. I hope that I can reassure my noble friend that we have made comprehensive provision in draft regulations and the draft code of practice.

Regulations to be made under Clause 30 will require that the local offer provides information about how to request an assessment for an EHC plan. The draft code of practice builds on this requirement and explains in section 5.2, on page 34, that this should include information about eligibility for personal budgets.

Draft regulations relating to Clause 49 set out the right of parents to request a review and require the local authority to provide in writing the reason for any decision to decline a request for a direct payment. Again, the draft code builds on this requirement. Section 7.12 states:

“The decision making process to establish and agree a budget should be clear and must be open to challenge, with parents able to request a review of decisions in relation to direct payments”.

With these reassurances, I hope that the noble Baroness will feel able to withdraw her amendment.