Children and Families Bill

Baroness Sharp of Guildford Excerpts

Monday 21st October 2013 Grand Committee

[Baroness Howe of Idlicote (CB)]

My Lords, I am particularly glad that the debate on the probing amendment moved by my noble friend Lord Northbourne did not take place at the end of the Committee session last Wednesday. We are being allowed to take a much deeper look at this important area. Reducing the number of dysfunctional children needs a lot more attention paid to it. On prevention through early intervention, Frank Field and Graham Allen have said it all. Parental responsibilities are enormous, and children need to feel safe and loved, as my noble friend rightly emphasised.

A really good plus is that today families are beginning to share the bringing up of children. Fathers are often much more practically involved in their children’s upbringing. It used to be the case that mother would say, “You wait until your father gets home. He’ll deal with you”. Not any more. Fathers themselves gain great enjoyment from this sort of relationship, and that is very pleasing to see. Young people have to learn about what is needed to bring up today’s children. They have to know about the substantial dangers that children have to face as they grow up. There are new communications techniques and things that can be found on the internet. Also, with fellow children at school, there are things like sexting and sending pictures that no one would want to have shown around. This may be a probing amendment but, my goodness, it is important and should make us all think very carefully about how wide this subject is. I am sure that the Government are fully aware of the importance of this issue.

[Baroness Sharp of Guildford (LD)]

My Lords, in a personal capacity I very much support this amendment. I have been an officer to the Parents and Families Group for a long time. The noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, is chairman of the group. I fully agree with the remarks made by the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, on the importance of family relationships on how children emerge. As the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, said, it seems absurd that the only law we have in this country relates to property and not to responsibilities. In all conscience, we are keeping responsibilities on local authorities, on schools and on all kinds of people in this Bill. However, to some extent, those who have prime responsibility for bringing up children should be made to recognise that they have such responsibilities. As the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, said, the Scots have this law. It is a good law and there is a lot to be said for copying their example.

[Baroness Howarth of Breckland (CB)]

I may be a lone voice here but, much as I agree—who cannot agree?—with the essence of what the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, has said, I do not view legislation as the answer. I am sure that the Minister will say that we have a plethora of legislation. I have worked in this field and I could list it but I will not do so because it would take all the time in the world. The important message that we should take from the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, is how vital it is that we should do what the noble Baroness, Lady Massey, has been saying for so long. We still are not doing well in terms of PSHE and helping young people and children to understand as early as possible what it is to be a parent, to be part of a community and all that you have to do as a citizen. Teens and Toddlers is still going and the programmes through which young people learn at first hand about bringing up children are very important.

However, I believe we live with a myth that modern young men are all the same, which we need to face if we are to deal with some of these issues. The young men I deal with, and I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, deals with, who end up in prison or in serious difficulties certainly are not among those who see themselves as hands-on in childcare. They see themselves as at the football match, the pub or an alternative. Until we are able to get programmes that work directly with such young men, we will not make a difference to them while they are growing up. We should forget the myth that all young men are the same, particularly in understanding the wide range of cultures. The noble Earl, Lord Listowel, mentioned young men from certain cultures. There are difficulties in many different groups and we have to be sensitive to all that.

I say to my noble and learned friend Lady Butler-Sloss that I do not think that there are many good reasons for men walking out on their families. They do it because they have not been helped to face up to those issues. However, the courts are getting tougher in ensuring that they face up to their responsibilities, which I am pleased about. I know that CAFCASS has been working for a considerable time on trying to make parents face up to what they will do to their children if they leave them.

Although my heart is with what the noble Lord, Lord Northbourne, has said, we need to get on with the practical application and the proper support for good social work intervention that will make a difference, rather than have yet more legislation on the statute book.