Professional Standards in the Banking Industry

Baroness Primarolo Excerpts

Thursday 5th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Attorney-General]

It would help if the right hon. Gentleman listened, rather than getting carried away with his own rhetoric. There is nothing to prevent this House, if it wishes, from setting up a joint inquiry of both Houses into—[Interruption.] The “banking industry” is the way it was described, and that is what is in the motion—[Interruption.] Yes, to incorporate LIBOR—I make that quite clear.

Obviously, and this point applies as much to the right hon. Gentleman’s motion as to any other step, if there are criminal investigations or inquiries, any inquiry by this House will have to be managed in the light of that process—[Interruption.] Yes, it will have to be managed, because it must not interfere with that process. But, for the Government to support a motion for a judicial inquiry that cannot even get off the ground if criminal inquiries and investigations are taking place would be a rather odd thing for the Government to do, because such an inquiry could not happen.

The right hon. Gentleman has made a mistake in relation to the motion—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order.

[The Attorney-General]

And if he listened carefully he would understand it.

[Ed Balls]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order, Mr Balls.

Order means order for Front Benchers on the Government side as well. I understand that the Attorney-General is trying to be helpful to the House, but he has made several interventions, they have all been too long and I hope that we can move on now with the debate.

[Ed Balls]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chancellor of the Exchequer (Mr George Osborne)]

Madam Deputy Speaker—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. We are not going to get anywhere in this debate if Members on both sides of the Chamber continue to bawl at each other. It would be a very good idea if we could listen to the Chancellor and proceed with the debate. I am sure that he will be generous in giving way.

--- Later in debate ---

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Mr Gwynne, I have already said that I do not expect people continually to shout across the Chamber. I know that people on all sides are angry about this, but we cannot have a debate if we cannot hear what is being said. I ask all Members, including those on the Government side, to bear in mind that our proceedings are being watched by people who are a darn sight angrier than people in this House.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. The best way to abate the anger in the Chamber and to have a calm and proper debate would be for the Chancellor simply to withdraw the accusation that he made against the shadow Chancellor.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Mr Brennan, you know full well that that is not a point of order; it is a point of debate and it is on the record. Perhaps now we can proceed. I call the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

[Mr Osborne]

I have never seen Labour Members and the shadow Chancellor so rattled about their time in office. We had one hour of an attempt by the former City Minister to defend his conduct when he was in office and these scandals happened, and we have still not had from him a simple apology for what he did—his failure of regulation. He should get up and say not, “We were all involved in this; there were Governments all over the world doing it”, but “I was the City Minister and I am sorry.”

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[Mr Jenkin]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. I regret to say that I cannot hear the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Mr Speaker regularly reminds this House that we do not look very good to the public, and I think this might be a prime example.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

I am eternally grateful for the help from the hon. Gentleman in reminding the House of what I have already said to the House, which is that if Members believe that this demonstrates the behaviour of the House at its very best on a serious matter, they are sorely mistaken, regrettably. However, each Member in this House is responsible for their own behaviour, and not me, thank goodness, so perhaps we can continue with the debate.

[Mr Osborne]

May I at least make this point to those on the Opposition Benches about the proposal in their motion to have a judge-led inquiry?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Osborne]

There is something else I want to say to the House. Of course we can act swiftly or follow the Opposition motion, which means delay, but there is a broader point. A Joint Committee can summon people under oath and it can summon papers. I commit to giving it any resources it needs to do its job. It can sit in public, and we can get to the bottom of what happened. But there is this final point for the House to consider—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Order. If Members of the House think that constantly standing and holding out their arms will make the Chancellor give way, they might be wrong. I would be grateful if the Chancellor would indicate to the House whether he has any intention of taking further interventions. In that way, perhaps we can manage the debate in a more seemly fashion than we are doing at the moment.

[Mr Osborne]

I have taken many interventions, and I know that many people want to speak in the debate. That is why we will have a time limit on speeches. I want to say one final thing to the House. We are sent here to hold people to account on behalf of the public. What does it say about us if we fail to investigate? We talk about a lack of trust—

[Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. Is it in order for a Member of this House, outside the Chamber, to smear his opponents with utterly false allegations for which he has no evidence whatever, and then to refuse to substantiate or withdraw them when he gets here? It is a complete disgrace.

[Madam Deputy Speaker]

Mr Austin, I think you know that I am grateful for the fact that I am not responsible for what Members choose to say in the House. Each Member needs to reflect on the accusations and counter-accusations, whoever they are. That is not a point of order. It is a matter of debate, and Members are making their feelings felt very forcefully on that point.

[Mr Osborne]

Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I think that we have learnt today that the Brownite cabal and all its tactics are alive and well in the Labour party, and that they have taken over the leadership of the party. All the things that brought the last Government into disrepute are being repeated by the Labour Opposition today.

Let me end by saying this. What does it say about Parliament if we fail to investigate ourselves? We talk about a lack of trust in politics, but why should the public have confidence in their politicians when we politicians do not have the confidence to investigate scandals such as this? We have in Parliament the skills, the expertise and the mandate to do the job. We were created to hold power to account. Let Parliament make its decision today, and let all parties abide by that decision. Let us set up the inquiry and hold finance to account, and let us get on with it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Hon. Members]

Withdraw!

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Sit down, Mr Watts. I am on my feet.

Mr Watts, you will have to rephrase that last bit. You will do it briefly, and then Mr Tyrie will continue his speech—and that includes withdrawing the accusation of lying.

[Mr Watts]

I will withdraw that comment, Madam Deputy Speaker. I will say that the Chancellor gives the impression that he did something that he did not do, and then refuses to apologise. How does he think that he can secure co-operation across the Benches when he does that?

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

I shall call the last speaker now. The winding-up speeches must start at 4.55 pm, so I ask that speaker to resume his seat then.

--- Later in debate ---

[David Rutley]

I completely agree. It is so important that we drive for urgent action that I hope Opposition Members will reconsider their stated position and vote with us this evening in support of a parliamentary-led—

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. I asked the hon. Gentleman to conclude his remarks by 4.55 pm and that is now the time. The winding-up speeches will now start.