Housing: Section 21 Evictions

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Tuesday 20th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, we have always set out our intention, in the White Paper that preceded the Bill and in the guidance that goes alongside the Bill, that we will need to give six months’ notice for implementing Section 21 for new tenancies. That is to give time for a number of things to happen. The noble Baroness is right that we need to allow time for the courts to prepare for this, to allow evictions, court rules, forms and administrative systems to be updated. It is also to allow for secondary legislation that flows from the primary legislation to be laid, and for guidance to be put in place. But we are working hard, and we have already provided upfront money to the court system to kick-start that process, so that we can move towards implementation as soon as possible.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

Could the Minister clarify that? On the Laura Kuenssberg programme, Michael Gove said that Section 21 would be “outlawed” before the general election. Does that mean that, by the time of the general election, a landlord will not be able to serve a Section 21 notice on a tenant?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, I looked very carefully at what my right honourable friend said, and he said that we will have outlawed it by the next general election—we will have passed the Bill and put money into the courts to ensure that we can enforce it. We are already putting money into the courts—£1.2 million this year.

Leasehold: Property Management Companies

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Monday 19th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I am afraid I have to disagree with the noble Lord’s assessment of the Bill. I can set out a number of ways in which the Bill will improve the position of leaseholders regarding service charges. It will require greater transparency of service charges, so that leaseholders receive key information regularly; we will rebalance the legal costs regime, giving leaseholders greater confidence to challenge their service charges; it will replace the buildings insurance commissions system for managing agents, so that transparent admission fees are in place; and it will increase the non-residential limit from 25% to 50% for buying the freehold or exercising the right to manage, giving leaseholders greater rights in respect of taking over the freehold of their property or managing it themselves.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend will know that the law of forfeiture allows a managing agent to take possession of a flat worth, say, £500,000 if there is a debt of more than £350 outstanding. In those circumstances, the freeholder pockets the difference between the value of the flat and the debt. Surely the leasehold Bill should put a stop to that.

Local Authority Finances

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Tuesday 6th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, we recognise the pressures that local government is facing. That is why we have announced such a substantive increase into the funding for councils this year. We recognise that the voluntary sector is often an important delivery partner for local authorities in the work that they do. They will benefit from the settlement that we have announced. My department also works carefully with, for example, the Department for Culture, Media and Sport, which leads on the voluntary sector, to ensure that we understand the impact on the voluntary sector and the interplay with local government.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, local authorities are no longer run by Derek Hatton, Ken Livingstone and Ted Knight, the bogeymen of 40 years ago, but the legislation which they provoked is still with us—rate capping. As a result, many well-run upper-tier local authorities struggle to provide good-quality adult and children’s services despite the increase and are looking at Section 114 notices. Against a background of devolution and promotion of local accountability, has the time not come to review the rate-capping policy?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, we are committed to broader reform of local government finance, but we have said, in recognition of the disruption and uncertainty caused by the pandemic, that this will be something for the next Parliament. We have also set out ambitious proposals when it comes to devolution of greater powers and greater financial decision-making to local government. That starts with the trail-blazer authorities in Greater Manchester and the West Midlands but will be on offer more widely across the country.

Housing: Accessibility Standards

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Monday 5th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, further to the question of the noble Lord, Lord Best, I too welcome the decision to make these new accessibility standards mandatory, but the M4(2) standards have been around since 2015 and the building industry is already familiar with them. Surely, any consultation should be quite quick and the regulations should come into effect during the lifetime of this Parliament.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My noble friend makes a good case. As he will know, the Government have already consulted on the principle of this. A technical consultation would be needed to take forward the mandating of the standard.

Long-term Plan for Housing

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Thursday 11th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, there is much to welcome in the Statement—namely, the increase in planning resources—but it represents a major change in government housing policy, which was not there when the levelling-up Bill was introduced. As the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, said, this was introduced to head off a rebellion in the other place. As a result, the targets are advisory, not mandatory, and we are already seeing a result—not just in plans being withdrawn but in South Oxfordshire doing something unheard of in planning by deleting from its plan for development sites that had already been included. We may end up with more up-to-date plans eventually, but they will have fewer homes in them than the country needs. How will a democratically elected Government, committed to building 300,000 new homes a year, deliver that if they are totally dependent on the good will of local authorities that do not share that commitment?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, we announced a number of different changes at the end of last year. However, as I said to both the noble Baronesses, the standard method for assessing housing need remains the starting point for local authorities. It is only in exceptional circumstances that we would expect them to move away from that, and that must be well evidenced. In such circumstances, where it is not appropriate for that area, there is a way and method for those local authorities to put forward a well-considered and well-thought-out local plan, which would have a much better chance of being delivered than something that does not command local support and does not suit the needs of the local area.

We have made other changes that may result in the changes that my noble friend talked about—for example, by removing the buffers needed on land supply set out in local plans. They go over and above the amount of land needed to deliver against the assessed housing need for an area. Where local authorities have done the right thing, put a plan in place and identified the land they need to deliver against the local housing need in their area, it is not the right way forward to require those local authorities to hold a 5% or 10% buffer on top.

Homelessness

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Monday 18th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the scheme that Westminster City Council has run for the last few years whereby there is a 24-hour helpline? Anyone who sees a rough sleeper can call that line and an experienced outreach worker will go out, contact that rough sleeper and try to persuade them to come into a hostel and help rebuild their life. Should not this sort of scheme be replicated throughout the country if the Government are to hit their target of ending rough sleeping by the end of next year?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, I am aware of the scheme. In fact, I have been out with some of the charities that respond to those reports and go and seek out people the next day and offer them further help and support. I think it is a very effective scheme, and I am sure we would want to look at what can be done to see it spread further if it is not available in different forms across the country.

Local Enterprise Partnerships: Funding

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Monday 11th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I assure the noble Lord that the Government are confident that, in integrating the work done by LEPs into local authority or combined authority areas, we will not lose the benefits of the great work done by LEPs since their establishment. The aim is to integrate that with local democratic accountability. It is part of our broader agenda on devolution and we will continue to see some of that great work delivered over similar areas to now.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, is it not the case that, since the LEPs were set up in 2011, more and more of their functions have been transferred to mayoral authorities and combined mayoral authorities, and have been included in devolution deals, many more of which are still on the way? Is that not a more democratic solution than the unelected LEPs?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right. In taking this decision, we conducted an information-gathering exercise with local authorities and LEPs to understand the impact of our plans. That identified great overlap between some of the functions discharged by LEPs, local authorities and combined authorities, as well as confirming a high level of integration of LEP functions in mayoral combined authorities. That is why we are taking the direction of travel that we are. The Government’s view is that there is likely to be scope for both greater join-up and efficiencies, and clarity for the private sector, by these functions being discharged in a joined-up way, and greater local accountability.

Home-ownership Rates

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Wednesday 6th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, since 2010, more than 2.5 million additional homes have been delivered and, since 2018, we have had four of the highest annual rates of housing supply of the last 30 years. We are building more homes, because increasing supply is fundamental to helping more people on to the housing ladder—but there is more to do. We have our new affordable homes programme, which will deliver even more affordable homes to buy and for rent to help people on to the housing ladder.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, further to my noble friend Lord Naseby’s Question, I point out that average house prices in London are now 13 times average earnings, and multiples have gone up throughout the country. As a result, many people have to rent, even though they would prefer to be home buyers, because they cannot afford the deposit. Many now pay more in rent than they would on a mortgage. Therefore, in addition to the schemes mentioned by my noble friend the Minister, do we not need some more ambitious schemes to enable more of these people to achieve their ambition of home ownership?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, the Government completely recognise the issue that my noble friend has set out. The mortgage guarantee scheme is relatively new; it opened in April 2021 and was recently extended to June 2025. It extends the availability of 95% mortgages, which helps with that deposit issue because it reduces the amount that people need to save for their deposits. More than 39,000 households have been helped through that scheme already, and I expect many more to be helped in future. To give a sense of scale on the lifetime ISA and its predecessor—the Help to Buy ISA, our other main scheme to help with saving for deposits—I say that under the Help to Buy ISA we supported over 550,000 property completions, so these are not insignificant support schemes to help people in these areas.

Residential Leasehold for Flats

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Thursday 30th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I do not draw that conclusion. Leasehold reform is complex. We have consulted widely and are taking time to get things right. I understand the desirability of bringing forward these clauses as soon as possible for Parliament’s scrutiny and that is what the Government intend to do.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the provisions of the leasehold Bill, which provide a better balance between the interests of freeholders and leaseholders. However, the Bill does not do what Michael Gove said it would. He said:

“I don’t believe leasehold is fair in any way. It is an outdated feudal system that needs to go. And we need to move to a better system and to liberate people from it”.


He wanted to replace leasehold with commonhold, but the Bill does not even mention commonhold. So will my noble friend be surprised if some of us seek to amend the Bill to deliver what her Secretary of State actually wants?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, I have tried to learn not to be surprised by any amendments tabled to government Bills by your Lordships’ House, but I would like to reassure my noble friend that this Bill is focused on helping leaseholders now by making existing leases fairer and more affordable. We have focused on legislating where we can make a genuine improvement to leaseholders’ daily lives right away. For example, we are making it cheaper and easier for leaseholders to purchase the freehold of their building or a 999-year lease on their property and take control of their building’s management from the freeholder. When it comes to reforms to commonhold, we continue to consider the Law Commission’s report in detail to find the best way forward and we are committed to taking forward that additional work.

Levelling Up: Project Delivery

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Thursday 23rd November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, the report itself highlights a number of issues that have delayed some of the delivery, including rising costs and inflation and other outside factors. That is why we are working with local authorities to address those issues. As I say, in the eight months since the report, the department has paid over £1.5 billion of further funding out to local places. We have already seen several projects completed or near completion, which are making a difference to the lives of people in those communities.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

Further to the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, the NAO was not entirely critical of my noble friend’s department. It did say that evaluation was better and that the grant management process had improved. But it also said that a number of projects would not be completed by the proposed deadline. Where there are good reasons for that delay, will there be some flexibility in those deadlines? Otherwise, some very worthwhile projects will be abandoned.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for drawing out some of the positives of that report, as there were indeed some. He is right that, while we are keen to see the delivery impact of this investment as soon as possible, there have been some delays. For example, we have talked about inflationary pressures, so for the levelling-up fund, the prospectus for both rounds 1 and 2 said that we expected all funding provided to be spent by March 2024 and March 2025 respectively. However, those deadlines can be extended by one year on an exceptional basis. Similarly, for the future high streets fund, we have given a six-month extension for the spend deadline, taking it to 30 September next year, giving local places additional time to deliver their transformational projects.

Levelling Up

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Wednesday 22nd November 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Levelling Up, Housing & Communities (Baroness Penn) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, and the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, for their questions. I start by challenging a few of the assertions made in their responses to the Statement, particularly about underfunding and the minuscule amounts of money that have gone into this project.

Levelling up is at the heart of this Government’s mission: it has been backed with significant financing through the levelling-up funds and a number of other initiatives, and we have seen more in the Autumn Statement today. For those areas that have bid into the levelling-up fund and have been unsuccessful, it is not the end of the story: we have an agenda across government, whether through devolution, investing in skills, investment zones, freeports, or a whole number of areas where opportunities continue for areas to receive funding for projects that are important to them. On Monday, 55 projects were announced, but the total is 271, which is not an insignificant number of bids. These were across the country, representing areas that are diverse but also in need of this funding.

I also address the point around smaller, less well-resourced councils that felt unable to bid in earlier rounds. Some funding was made available for those who would struggle to put together bids to be able to participate in that process, so that is not the full picture. Also, the feedback that we received on the competitive process for rounds 1 and 2 informed the approach that we took for round 3 and informs our approach to the funding simplification doctrine, which acknowledges the valuable contribution of competitions for driving value for money and identifying the best projects for certain programmes. We will continue to deploy them where they make the most sense, but we encourage the use of allocative approaches where they can best achieve specific outcomes while minimising demands on local authorities. At the heart of that doctrine is our commitment to value for money, which will drive decision- making on the most appropriate choice of funding mechanism.

The Government have responded to the feedback they had in earlier rounds of the levelling up fund in their approach to round 3. I reject the Liberal Democrats’ proposition that the 55 projects that received funding in this round are somehow of lesser quality than projects that received funding in previous rounds. In fact, we found that a very high number of very high-quality projects had bid into this system, which allowed us to return to those projects for round 3 and make great allocations for very well-deserving projects. To reassure the noble Baroness, we touched base with local areas to ensure that those projects continue to be priorities for them and deliverable. However, having made the formal announcement, we will also recontact every single one of those successful local authorities to reconfirm that they are projects that they would like to pursue and, on the delivery point, meet a delivery timetable that is achievable given the changing circumstances.

Those changing circumstances were a factor acknowledged in the National Audit Office report. We have faced a time of high inflation, particularly for capital projects, and labour shortages. We also acknowledge some challenges in the way we ran the process in government too, so we welcome the work that the NAO has done and have taken significant action to address the points it made. I point out that the data that the NAO used in its report was cut off in March 2023 to allow it to analyse consistently across three different projects that the Government have been running. Since then, we have released a further £1.5 billion of levelling-up funding through the programme, so significant progress has been made.

We have also made changes to how the projects are run—for example, allowing greater decision-making for local authorities to flex their delivery programmes to meet the new circumstances they find themselves in. We have also made £65 million available to ensure that local authorities have the capacity to deliver the levelling up fund projects that they have successfully bid for. The Government acknowledge some of the challenges in the National Audit Office report. We have already taken steps to address some of those points and seen a significant increase in the amount of money disbursed.

Finally, on the funding simplification doctrine and what it will mean, it is a doctrine that will apply from central government to local government in its approach to levelling up. That is primarily from the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities, but it applies across other departments’ delivery of and commitment to our levelling-up agenda with local authorities. We will evaluate the simplification pathfinders as quickly as possible. In all the work we are doing on these new projects and programmes, we seek to learn the lessons from them as we go along, ensuring that we have robust evaluation processes in place that allow us to continue to make these modifications and improvements as we deliver our levelling-up agenda across the whole of the United Kingdom.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

I apologise to the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, for barracking her when she quite rightly asked a supplementary question. I warmly welcome my noble friend to her new responsibilities and say how much she will be missed at the Treasury. We hope she will be able to adopt a less restrictive approach to her new portfolio than the one she was obliged to adopt at the Treasury.

Many of us found the tone of the earlier intervention somewhat grudging, and I know these funds will be warmly welcomed by the communities to which they are targeted. Will my noble friend confirm that it is the Government’s firm policy to streamline all these different pots of money which go from central to local government, and really have proper devolution? The Statement mentions the levelling up fund, town deals, the shared prosperity fund, the future high streets fund and others. Can we streamline things without having a fund simplification pathfinder pilot? Perhaps it could be simpler than doing that.

Finally, the Statement refers to new funds and the principles that could be applied to them. Do we really need any new funds, given the ones we already have? The objective should be to reduce rather than to add.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his warm welcome to this role. I reassure him that the department is absolutely committed to simplifying our funding approach when it comes to levelling up and local authorities. I reassure noble Lords that the funding simplification doctrine will be implemented from 1 January next year. Its aim is to embed our commitment to simplifying the funding landscape by ensuring that government departments consider the principles of funding simplification when designing new funding for local authorities. To the noble Baroness’s point, the idea is that it extends beyond the reach of my department alone. The doctrine will cover all new funds that are made available exclusively to local authorities by central government, but it excludes funding within the local government finance settlement and services mandated by statute. That gives a better idea of the shape of that approach.

However, it is right that where there are specific problems that may need to be addressed with specific parameters, the concept of a new fund is not entirely ruled out from that approach. The pathfinders, which are important in allowing us to make sure we learn as we go and then apply the approach more generally, are looking at what flexibilities can be applied across those different funding streams, and at putting local authorities in the driving seat in identifying where their priorities are and using the funding made available from central government more flexibly.

Cross-Government Cost Cutting

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Tuesday 6th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

No, I would not agree with the noble Lord at all. Efficiency savings are something that Governments of all colours have striven to deliver, including in previous comprehensive spending reviews under the Labour Government. It is absolutely right that, when we look at departmental spending, we build in an assumption of improved efficiency and value for money, but also that, at this time of increased inflationary pressures, we put even more work into looking at where we can achieve efficiencies and release savings to be reinvested into those budgets.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My noble friend said that the Government were ambitious in their search for cost-cutting savings. May I suggest that ambition be extended to the number of Ministers in the Government? In 1979 there were two Ministers in the Department of Transport; there are now five. In 1979 there were five Ministers in the DHSS. That department has since been split into two and there are six Ministers in each. Is this not an area worthy of some exploration?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I take my noble friend’s point. The scope of government and what it is attempting to deliver has changed somewhat over that time, but whether the growth in Ministers has matched that scale of delivery is another question.

Financial Inclusion in England

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Wednesday 30th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

The Government are conscious of the poverty premium. We have used the Financial Inclusion Policy Forum as somewhere that we can bring together different actors on this. I will give some examples of action that we have taken in this area. The FCA, the regulator, has taken action on motor and home insurance to stop customers who are renewing being charged more than new customers. We have also seen the age agreement put in place for older customers to be able to access travel and motor insurance, and some work has been done with the Association of British Insurers looking at the poverty premium, specifically in the rented sector, and it has provided some recommendations to the Government that we are considering how best to take forward.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, I applaud my noble friend Lord Holmes’s campaign to ensure that physical currency is available and valid, but what are the Government doing to ensure that the currency is fit for purpose? Many noble Lords may recall the farthing. The farthing was withdrawn in 1960 because it was redundant. The 1960 farthing is worth 2.8p today, but the halfpenny was withdrawn in 1984 for the same reason. So what is the life expectancy for the 1p coin languishing in saucers up and down the country?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I am afraid to say to my noble friend that I do not recall the farthing myself. The Government had a consultation on cash and digital payments in 2018 and the responses strongly supported not changing the denominational mix of coinage at that time. However, as with all areas of policy, we keep this under review.

Ambulance Pressures

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Tuesday 19th July 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend will know that today the Government published the better care fund framework 2022-23, with some £7 billion to join up health and social care. Against a background of the problems that have been raised so far, particularly with delayed discharge, should not a bigger slice of that £7 billion go to increasing the capacity of places where people can be discharged to from hospital to complete their convalescence—to be assessed prior to going on, either back home or to a nursing home or residential care? We need more of those intermediate places to remove some of the blockages that have been referred to.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My noble friend will have heard me refer to step-down beds or places in my previous answer. He is right that the better care fund framework has been in place for a number of years to improve delayed discharge and the link-up between health care and social care. I am sure the framework document published today was based on the lessons of the operation of that fund in previous years and will seek to use that best practice going forward.

Cryptocurrencies

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Wednesday 2nd March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, I did take the point that the noble Baroness raised back to the Treasury. As I said in an earlier answer, on blocking Russian transactions, the position is that firms are currently obliged to apply risk-based controls to mitigate the risk of sanctions evasion, rather than taking a blanket approach.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, further to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Cromwell, I do indeed believe that this is a beast that needs to be tamed. Has my noble friend read the comments of the Governor of the Bank of England, who said of cryptos:

“It’s not a financial stability issue today, but it has all the potential to be one, particularly if the system starts getting leverage into it”?


Does this not underline the need for some sort of regulation if we are to avoid the problems we saw in 2008, when financial institutions and others dealt with products that were not fully understood and not properly regulated, leading to a major recession?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, I have indeed read those comments by the Governor of the Bank of England. My noble friend is absolutely right that the situation is dynamic and the market in crypto assets is growing. That is why the Bank of England is monitoring crypto assets’ financial stability. It is also why the Cryptoassets Taskforce, the Treasury, the Financial Conduct Authority and Bank of England are taking an approach to regulate aspects of crypto assets, particularly those that pose the greatest threat to our financial stability.

Crypto Currencies

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Monday 28th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the use of crypto currencies in the United Kingdom.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, certain crypto assets offering new ways to transact and invest are part of a trend of rapid innovation in financial technology. However, these developments also present new challenges and risks, including risks to consumers and the financial system. In 2018 the Government established a Cryptoassets Taskforce, which is responsible for assessing developments in the crypto asset market. Her Majesty’s Treasury and UK authorities have taken a series of actions to support innovation while mitigating risks to stability, market integrity and consumers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend. While blockchain technology has much to commend it, with the UK being a world leader in financial technology, should not cryptocurrencies be subject to the same rules as other currencies? While many law-abiding citizens may have modest holdings of bitcoin, have not cryptocurrencies greatly facilitated the operations of blackmailers, drug dealers, fraudsters, tax evaders and terrorists, with crypto-based crime reaching an estimated $14 billion last year, as against nearly $8 billion the year before? What plans does my noble friend have to tame the beast?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, we are taking action to manage the most pressing risks from crypto assets. That includes including crypto assets in the most robust standards for money laundering and countering terrorist financing, and moving to regulate crypto asset promotions to ensure that they are held to high standards for fairness, clarity and accuracy.

Cash Infrastructure

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Monday 19th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, I understand that a number of industry-led pilots are already under way which are taking forward the kinds of initiative that the noble Baroness is talking about, and they have been able to take place within the current competition framework.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend Lord Holmes that, for those without bank accounts, access to cash ATMs and to retailers which accept cash is crucial, and both are becoming rarer. Is there a role for the Department for Work and Pensions in helping pensioners who do not have bank accounts by issuing them with a prepaid card, topped up monthly, as it already does for universal credit claimants? This would give them financial inclusion and independence.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to ensuring that all individuals have access to financial products, including a bank account, but the DWP recognises that some customers may be genuinely unable to open or manage a bank account. For those customers, payment is made via the payment exception service. My understanding is that this may already be available to a wider set of customers than the noble Lord referred to, but I will take up this point—as it is a very good one—with the DWP and get back to him.

Deprived Areas

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Thursday 1st July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, as part of the Government’s long-term plan for the NHS, we want to increase the focus on prevention and, as part of the new office for health promotion, a cross-ministerial board will look not just at the measures within health but at those wider determinants and the government policies on them, which all contribute to narrowing those inequalities in health outcomes.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, many of Sir Michael’s recommendations, such as on local government finance, housing and universal credit, fall outwith my noble friend’s department, and I hope that there will be a comprehensive government response to those. But the recommendations on public health, which has been disproportionately disadvantaged recently, falls within it. In the forthcoming spending review, will the department press for the 0.5% of GDP on public health, as recommended in the report, to address the inequalities that it has identified?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

I hope that my noble friend will forgive me and be understanding from his time in government that I am not in a position to comment on the spending review process. He might take heart from the recent government announcement, or that of a few years ago, of the funding for the National Health Service overall and the accompanying long-term plan. As part of that long-term plan and as a condition of receiving that funding, all major national programmes and every local area across England is required to set out specific measurable goals and mechanisms, by which they will contribute to a narrowing of health inequalities over the next five and 10 years.

Interest Rates

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Wednesday 23rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Cookham]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the announcement by National Savings and Investment about reductions in interest rates.

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

Her Majesty’s Treasury set NS&I an annual target of net financing to raise. In July, this was revised from the £6 billion set at the Budget to £35 billion to support the Government’s higher financing requirement. NS&I reviews the interest rates on its products regularly and recommended a reduction in interest rates, with the objective of meeting its financing target, while returning to a more normal market position.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as an optimistic holder of Premium Bonds. NS&I’s decision to cut interest rates drastically to near zero was a direct consequence, as my noble friend has just said, of the Government’s net financing target—a devastating decision for millions of savers who find their income decimated, or worse. NS&I is a key source of government borrowing but has a broader mission. I quote from its annual report:

“We want to inspire a stronger savings culture”.


That objective is out of the window. Earlier this year, a decision to reduce interest rates was reversed. Will the Government now enable NS&I to reverse this latest decision before it comes into effect in November?

[Baroness Penn (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps I should also declare my interest as a holder of NS&I savings products. I can understand people’s disappointment at the rate reductions. I reassure my noble friend that the prize fund rate for Premium Bonds, at 1%, even after the reductions, remains competitive relative to the savings market. I remind him that although NS&I has a remit to encourage a savings culture, it also has to balance that against providing value for money for the taxpayer and its position and effect on the broader financial services sector.

Banks: Authorised Push Payment Fraud

Debate between Baroness Penn and Lord Young of Cookham

Thursday 11th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Penn]

I am sure that once the confirmation-of-payee scheme has been rolled out across the six largest banks, the regulator will look at how that has worked and any further measures that need to be taken. One of the benefits of the code that is in place is that it ensures that, where victims have done everything that should be expected of them, they receive reimbursement and compensation from the bank.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con) [V]]

My Lords, this crime is so prevalent because of the ease with which fraudsters can open bank accounts with false details. Does my noble friend agree that responsibility for paying compensation should rest not with the innocent customer’s bank, as at the moment, but with the bank that allowed the fraudulent account to be opened and the money to be stolen?

[Baroness Penn]

My noble friend is right that it is essential that banks take proper steps to ensure that bank accounts are not opened fraudulently. The Financial Conduct Authority requires banks to maintain effective systems and controls to prevent the risk that they may be used to further financial crime. However, the code that specifies who pays compensation was drawn up with both industry and consumer groups and is getting reimbursements and compensation to those innocent victims. We should support a model that is supported by industry and consumer groups.