Extreme Poverty

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Tuesday 15th December 2020 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the report by the Joseph Rowntree Foundation Destitution in the UK 2020, published on 9 December, what steps they are taking to address any (1) increase in, and (2) intensification of, extreme poverty in the United Kingdom.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con)]

My Lords, tackling poverty is a priority for this Government. Throughout this pandemic, this Government have sought to protect jobs and incomes, spending billions on strengthening welfare support and ensuring the most vulnerable can meet their basic needs. Our long-term ambition is to level up opportunity across the UK by helping people back into work as quickly as possible, based on clear and consistent evidence of the important role work can play in tackling poverty.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, is it not shocking that the JRF found that

“even before the COVID-19 outbreak destitution was rapidly growing in scale and intensity”,

with 2.4 million people, including over 500,000 children, in households unable to afford the essentials needed to eat and stay warm and dry? Given that this and other research identifies social security cuts and design flaws as the key cause of this hardship, what assessment have the Government made of the impact on extreme poverty of withdrawing the £20 UC uplift in April and refusing to extend it to disabled people, the unemployed and carers on legacy and related benefits?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

Tackling poverty, as I said, is an absolute commitment and a priority for this Government. The noble Baroness raises the issue of the £20 uplift, and I can only confirm that the £20 uplift is in place until April 2021. Discussions between our department, the Treasury and others are ongoing, and a decision will be made in due course.

Supporting Disadvantaged Families

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Thursday 12th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The £170 million scheme recognises that more people might feel under pressure this winter and will allow local authorities to support a wider group of vulnerable people, including those with children of pre-school age. Precise eligibility for the Covid winter grant scheme will be decided by each local authority. This is not about numbers; it is for local authorities to decide how they can best support those in need. The Healthy Start scheme payments are also set to increase from £3.10 to £4.25 a week from next April.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]]

The Statement said that the Government want to give disadvantaged families peace of mind. Welcome as this week’s package is, why do the Government continue to refuse to act on calls from children’s and anti-poverty organisations? Their work shows that improvements to social security support for children is essential for their parents’ peace of mind and for tackling child poverty and hunger in both the short and longer term, as called for by the right reverend Prelate.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The noble Baroness is correct in that we want to give people peace of mind, as reflected in the announcement that we have made. The right reverend Prelate made his statement, and all I can say is that our Secretary of State, the department and the Government are working tirelessly around the clock to make sure that there is a package in place that does what it can to support people in these difficult times.

Pension Credit

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Monday 26th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

On 6 May, we launched the online Apply for Pension Credit service. Around 50% of claims are made through this medium. In addition, people can claim by calling a freephone number, and I am sure that our stakeholders will help in those instances.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, it is nearly a decade since the DWP conducted research into non-take-up of pension credit. Will it therefore now instigate new research into who non-claimants are, their reasons for not claiming, and where they are concentrated, as a crucial element of any effective action plan to increase take-up, which I agree with colleagues is essential.

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

As I have said before, there is no plan at the moment for a campaign and I am not aware of any research being commissioned of the kind that the noble Baroness requested.

Social Security (Up-rating of Benefits) Bill

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 13th October 2020 Grand Committee

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, I add my congratulations to the noble Baroness, Lady Stuart of Edgbaston, and the noble Lord, Lord Field of Birkenhead, on their excellent maiden speeches. The latter in particular brings years of experience and expertise on social security issues to your Lordships’ House. Moreover, he gave me my first job at the Child Poverty Action Group just short of 50 years ago—I would probably not be here otherwise.

I realise that this is a technical Bill relating to pensions uprating, but given that it is entitled the Social Security (Up-rating of Benefits) Bill I wish to address the uprating of benefits more generally. The Minister ended Second Reading in the Commons with a claim that the Bill provides pensioners

“with financial peace of mind in the face of the … pandemic”.—[Official Report, Commons, 1/10/20; col. 571.].

This is of course welcome, but arguably people of working age, especially those with children, as referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Bourne of Aberystwyth, are in even greater need of such peace of mind. Children are already at greater risk of poverty, including deep poverty; many families face a very uncertain economic future and will be suffering acute insecurity and anxiety. At the very least, they need to be given some peace of mind through assurances about the social security support that will be available to them.

As a former Work and Pensions Secretary, Stephen Crabb observed in a “ConservativeHome” blog—I must admit that is not my usual bedtime reading:

“What was missing from the Chancellor’s”


Winter Statement

“was any mention of the crucial role being played by Universal Credit during this crisis and the bigger role it will inevitably need to play in the months ahead.”

Echoing organisations on the ground, in the early stages a Daily Telegraph article suggested that the social security system could come to play a similarly vital role to the NHS in seeing us through the pandemic.

It is thus essential that the system is adequate to the task, including a level of benefit that, to quote the Lords Economic Affairs Committee,

“provides claimants with dignity and security.”

The committee also warned:

“The significant cuts to the social security system over the last decade mean that a catch-up increase in funding is needed urgently”.


Those cuts included the freeze in most working-age and children’s benefits. Given that the Conservative manifesto proclaimed the ending of the freeze, I hope the Minister will be able to give a firm assurance that, rumours to the contrary notwithstanding, there will be no further freeze of benefit during this Parliament. Any further cuts would mean not just more extensive poverty, but more intensive poverty, as more families are pushed further below the poverty line.

The committee also called on the Government to

“commit to making the increase in the standard allowance permanent”,

given the evidence it had received about the inadequacy of UC. Indeed, the very fact of that welcome uplift was tacit admission that the level of benefit was too low if people who lost work because of the crisis were to cope. Despite the uplift, Joseph Rowntree Foundation calculations showed that the real value of out-of-work support is still well below what it was in 2011-12, especially for those with children. The Minister will be well aware of the widespread support for retaining the £20 uplift, expressed in a letter to the Chancellor from around 50 children’s charities and others, and by a number of noble Lords this afternoon. According to the IFS, its withdrawal could mean 4 million families losing an average 13% of their benefit overnight.

The Resolution Foundation argues that to withdraw the uplift risked undoing the valuable protection it had provided for some of the poorest families when they will need it most, given, it said:

“It is inconceivable that the labour market will be in full health by April”.


It calculates that it would mean support for unemployed people falling to its lowest level ever, relative to average weekly earnings. Research by Save the Children published last week and by Citizens Advice today underlines the vital role it has played and the devastating impact its removal would have on families struggling to stay afloat. Last week the Prime Minister thrice avoided giving a straight answer on this question. I hope that he and the Minister will read a letter sent to him by Davine Forde, written from lived experience and pleading with him to maintain the uplift. It is on the JRF website.

Those pressing for retaining the uplift argue also for its extension to legacy benefits, claimed in particular by sick and disabled people or carers. The original argument that this could not be done because it would take too long to implement is well past its sell-by date. I hope the Government will now listen to the case made by SSAC and the Work and Pensions Committee, among others, for ending what is tantamount to discrimination. As a lone mother on ESA told Save the Children, “Having an extra £20 sounds so little but it means a lot”.

There is growing evidence that low-income families with children are bearing a disproportionate burden of poverty and hardship during the crisis; this shows up in Trussell Trust data on increased food bank use. Studies by Save the Children, CPAG—of which I am honorary president—and the Church of England reveal a significant deterioration in families’ living standards, aggravated in some cases by the benefit cap, referred to by my noble friend Lady Drake, which hurts children disproportionately. Yet last week when I asked the Minister—not for the first time, as she pointed out—why there has been no additional social security support for children, answer came there none. Calls for a real rise in children’s benefits, be it child benefit or means-tested support, are growing. I ask yet again: why are children, the age group at the greatest risk of poverty, being ignored and why is there still no review of the benefit cap?

I have emphasised the social case for protecting families through the social security system, but there is also an economic case, as made by organisations such as CPAG, JRF and the Resolution Foundation. It was expressed well in Stephen Crabb’s blog, which I referred to earlier. He said that

“investing in social security can be an effective stimulus, with those at the bottom end of the income distribution allocating more of their budget to core bills and essentials, and therefore being more likely to spend additional income than wealthier households”.

I would add that they are more likely to spend that income in the local economy. This needs to be understood as part of the levelling-up agenda. Indeed, according to the Resolution Foundation as many as one in three working-age families in so-called red wall constituencies stand to lose if the uplift is withdrawn.

I know that the Minister is sympathetic to this argument and that she listens to what we say on these matters. I therefore urge her to take the message back to her colleagues in the DWP and Treasury that if the Government are genuinely concerned to provide those least well placed to withstand the financial impact of the pandemic with “financial peace of mind”, they must commit now to maintain the £20 uplift, extend it to legacy benefits and improve support for children through a real increase in financial support and the suspension of the cap.

Covid-19: Low-income Families

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Thursday 8th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for bringing that important point to the notice of the House. My best response is that I will go back to my colleagues at MHCLG to get their position on the issue of evictions and write back to the noble Baroness.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, welcome as what the Government have done is, there is growing evidence of hardship among low-income families with children, most recently from Save the Children today. Following on from the right reverend Prelate’s question, why have the Government not done anything to improve social security benefits for children?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott (Con)]

The Government have put £9 billion into the welfare system to help the poorest. As I said in my original Answer, the bottom 10% have not had their income lessened at all. I know how passionate the noble Baroness is about this, and I respect her tenacity in raising it on a regular basis. I have put my head above the parapet and organised an all-Peers briefing session on the benefit cap, with the Minister for Employment, next week. I am sure these issues will be talked about in greater detail then. I extend an invitation to all noble Lords to attend that briefing.

Children Living in Poverty

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Wednesday 15th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

The noble Lord raises a really important point. It is not just about fiscal poverty; if youngsters do not get a good education or their education is interrupted, it can have a real impact on their ability to secure the skills and knowledge they need to make their way in the world. This is—I am not trying to duck the issue—a matter for my colleagues at the Department for Education, so I will ask my noble friend Lady Berridge to provide an update to the noble Lord on those matters.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the Government like to talk about tackling the causes of poverty. One cause of today’s shameful level of child poverty in working households is the long list of cuts in social security support for children since 2010, which was a policy choice. In this new context, why are the Government refusing to take the simple step of reversing that policy choice in order to reduce child poverty?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

The Government continue to review all the matters at their disposal to help children not be in poverty. These matters are reviewed continually. As I have said to the whole House before, the Government will continue to look at the issues and the things they have got to deal with poverty and will review them on a regular basis.

Universal Credit: Court of Appeal Judgment

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Monday 29th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I can tell my noble friend Lady Stroud that we have been amazed and pleased that the universal credit digital system has shown enormous resilience. We have had a 600% increase in claims, and the vast majority of people have been paid in full and on time. Without wishing to be disrespectful in any way, this would never have happened under the legacy system.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, last week, the Minister promised MPs that

“everything is on the table”,—[Official Report, Commons, 25/6/20; col. 1462.]

except, it would seem, the monthly assessment itself, even though it does not align with the reality of the working lives of the many claimants paid more frequently, and bases a month’s entitlement on personal circumstances from a single day. This is another example of irrationality and inflexibility. As well as fixing the immediate problem urgently, will the Government undertake a longer-term review of the monthly assessment?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

It may be helpful if I repeat for the House the Answer that my friend the Minister for Welfare Delivery gave in the other place last week. He said:

“I am absolutely determined to find a fix to this issue … a number of items are in the pipeline, ready to be changed on universal credit. Despite criticism from Opposition Members, we have made significant changes to universal credit, and much more is to come, such as the roll-on of legacy benefits next month, which will benefit people to the tune of £200. Those are all in the pipeline to be done, and this will be added to that. I will try to expedite it as much as I possibly can”.—[Official Report, Commons, 25/6/20; col. 1460.]

Covid-19: Child Poverty

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Monday 15th June 2020 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking during the COVID-19 pandemic to prevent any increase in child poverty.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Work and Pensions (Baroness Stedman-Scott) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, in addition to the £5 billion increase in benefit rates from April 2020, this Government have introduced an unprecedented package of support of over £6.5 billion to help families on benefits cope with the financial impact of Covid-19. This has increased universal credit and benefited over 4 million of the most vulnerable households; it has increased the local housing allowance rate, putting an average of £600 into people’s pockets; there is a £16 million grant to provide food for those struggling; Defra has put £3.5 million into food charities; and on 10 June the Prime Minister announced a £63 million fund to local authorities for a local welfare assistance programme. The Government are doing everything they can in these difficult times.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the pandemic is nevertheless having a disproportionate economic impact on low-income families, as child poverty grows and deepens. Last week, the official Social Mobility Commission warned that the Government urgently need to recognise that benefit cuts to families with children are increasing child poverty. On top of these cuts, including the two-child limit and the benefit cap, there is no extra weekly financial support for children during the crisis. Can the Minister therefore explain how these policies, which effectively discriminate against children, will help meet the manifesto goal to reduce child poverty?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott [V]]

I accept that the Social Mobility Commission report has highlighted some important poverty issues and gaps, but compared with 2010—notwithstanding the Covid-19 virus—there are 100,000 fewer children living in absolute poverty. We are taking action in 20 targeted areas to open up more opportunities and investing £90 million in activities to address disparities in youth unemployment. As for the benefit cap and all the important points that the noble Baroness has continued to make—and I have done everything I can to give her access to people to talk about it—I have no update other than has previously been given.

Universal Credit

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

The noble Baroness makes a very good point and I understand where she is coming from, but I must tell her that there are no plans to do as she requests. Bringing forward the October 2021 easement is not something I have heard discussed, but I am happy to go back to the department and find out.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, according to a recent Resolution Foundation survey, two-fifths of new UC claimants had not asked for an advance because they feared getting into debt—and debt it is, albeit interest-free. Will the Government therefore follow the foundation’s advice and at the very least suspend repayments for some months, following the welcome precedent set with other debt repayments, which shows that it is administratively possible, and if not, why not?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

Non-repayable advances cannot be implemented without significant changes to the system; this is not currently our policy intent. Funding to do it would be needed from the Treasury, costing an estimated £2 billion to £2.7 billion. With an advance, there are 13 payments over a year instead of 12, and as of next year the period over which advances have to be repaid will be extended from 12 months to 24 months.

Unemployment: Support

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Excerpts

Thursday 21st May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

I am unaware of any plans to change the savings threshold at present, nor indeed to level up legacy benefits. The noble Baroness is right to keep us focused on the potential size of the problem that could be coming down the road, and I assure the House that we are closely monitoring the evolving labour market and the public health situation to identify and implement the most effective way to help people to stay in work and stay close to work.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett (Lab)]

My Lords, many unemployed workers will not benefit from the additional financial support that has been announced because of the benefit cap, despite the grace period. Last week the Minister failed to answer my noble friend Lady Sherlock’s question as to why the Government are refusing to lift the cap during the crisis. Could she therefore answer it now and explain what purpose the cap serves when the labour market has “collapsed”, to quote the IFS, and moving home is not a realistic option?

[Baroness Stedman-Scott]

As it stands, the Government are not going to change the benefit cap, but it will be reviewed at some point. The noble Baroness’s point about people’s circumstances in terms of loss of income and not being able to move house is a very fair one; I thank her for raising it and I will take it back to the department. Tomorrow we have the all-Peers briefing with the Minister for Welfare Delivery, and I urge the noble Baroness to raise this point yet again.