European Union (Information, etc.) Bill [HL]

Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Friday 20th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town (Lab)]

My Lords, it is now, alas, probably a bit too late for this Bill to have the impact that I know that the noble Lord, Lord Dykes, would have wanted it to have in the past. Indeed, just imagine if it had been willingly and positively adopted five or so years ago, and local authorities had risen to the challenge of identifying and publicising the positive impact of the EU on their communities. As we have just heard, both the low turnout at European Parliament elections and the spike in online searches for “What is the EU?” immediately after the referendum reflect on how poorly we communicated what the EU means to the country. The only thing on which I would disagree with the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, is that it is less about how it works than about what it achieves. We were even worse at putting that across.

Prior to the referendum, public understanding of, or even interest in, the EU was low compared to that for domestic politics. That was reflected in the quote that the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, gave from someone who had contacted her. Partly, it was because we all rather took it for granted because, after more than 40 years’ membership, many or most of the electorate had spent all their adult life with us as members. So who can blame them for ignoring the difference between what was done in Westminster and what was done through the EU? They simply got used to being able to travel visa-free around Europe, were familiar with the euro, and took their cars and pets abroad with little thought as to how all that was made possible. No wonder they expected that all those things would continue even if they voted to leave, because no one had explained to them that it was through hard work, in the Council, by MEPs—such as the noble Baroness—and through negotiation, that so much of this was made to work for consumers, and that those things were part and parcel of our EU membership. Nobody explained that perhaps our driving licences or car insurance would no longer work once we had left the EU, that holiday guarantees or compensation for delays might be a thing of the past, that our students might not have the same opportunity to travel and study across 27 countries, or indeed that our access to EU products or food imports might be at risk, let alone that the ready availability of medicines could be in jeopardy.

However, when the referendum happened, the campaign taught us at least two things, though I am not sure they are the silver lining that was referred to. First, when it mattered, people wanted to know what it was all about. Secondly, to rely on parti pris campaigns, with no requirement for honestly, objectivity or fairness, is the very worst way of providing clear, unbiased information. The campaign was neither clear nor unbiased. How much better it would have been had local authorities made information available in libraries over years—if any were left after the government cuts had closed so many.

There is now just one problem with the intention of the Bill—other than that we are due to leave. How on earth could this divided, muddled, headless Government ever agree anything European, let alone some robust but unbiased material to distribute, whether in libraries or on the sides of municipal buses? They cannot even produce a White Paper when they promised. When the Minister comes to reply, can she tell us where it is? On 12 July in the other place, Dominic Raab announced that a White Paper on the withdrawal agreement and implementation Bill would appear “next week”. Indeed, when the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, repeated the Statement here the same day, he again read out those words: there would be a White Paper on a withdrawal and implementation Bill next week. It is now Friday of the week he was referring to, and it is 1.30 pm. If the Minister would like to produce the White Paper from inside the Dispatch Box, I am here and ready to receive it. In the absence of that, perhaps she could explain what has happened to it. Is it lost? Has it been rewritten? Are there still squabbles? When can we expect it?

There is another part of the Bill, on twinning. Other than the meaningless phrase “Brexit means Brexit”, which the Prime Minister likes to use a lot, there is her catchphrase, “We are leaving the EU but not Europe”—as if geographically that was possible, and some earthquake could move us further along into the ocean. But if we take those words in the spirit she perhaps means them—that we are indeed, in our thinking, policies, friendships and allies, still rooted in Europe—perhaps that means that the UK should continue or even increase the amount of twinning and similar arrangements that localities or special interest groups have with their continental equivalents. Therefore, can the Minister outline the Government’s vision for the future of town twinning, particularly in the light of continued assertions that the UK will continue to be good neighbours and good Europeans? To do that, we need to talk, to meet and to share.

That message about communication is one of the messages behind the Bill that, even if it does not become law, we should heed. The lessons are twofold. The first is a broad and democratic one: Governments, parliaments and councils should do far, far more to describe and explain what they are doing to the very people affected by those actions. That is a very general lesson that we should learn. The second is the one that I have just referred to: we are indeed Europeans; it is our continent, and we should do all that we can to continue to work with, understand and ally ourselves with our near neighbours. So a thank you is due to the noble—indeed, the feminist—Lord, Lord Dykes, for introducing this Bill and for the chance to consider the issues that it raises.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Goldie]

I quite accept that what is in the national curriculum is indeed the responsibility of government, but it is not my responsibility in dealing with this issue as the Minister for Brexit. The noble Baroness is clearly exercised by this, and she might want to raise the issue directly with the Department for Education.

When it comes to the twinning proposal in the Bill, the Government feel unable to support it for three interconnected reasons. First, traditional town twinning is a locally led activity built on the enthusiasms, preferences and commitments of local communities; it is for a local area, therefore, to decide how it wishes to approach twinning, what arrangements would work for it and how it wishes to make use of any available funds for twinning. Secondly, this would be an unnecessary bureaucratic requirement for local authorities, potentially imposing new financial burdens where budgets today are already under pressure. This would especially be the case if an area is not interested in twinning, in which case the requirement in the Bill would provide no gain for the local communities which councils are serving. Thirdly—and let me clarify this for the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter—this requirement is unnecessary as the current scheme eligibility criteria state that, if the UK ceases to be a member of the European Union, it will be required to leave the twinning scheme. The Bill specifies the EU’s town twinning support scheme, which is open to applications from:

“Towns/municipalities or their twinning committees or other non-profit organisations representing local authorities … A project must involve municipalities from at least 2 eligible countries of which at least one is an EU Member State”.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

The Government have said that, for everything else, existing funding through EU funds—whether structural funds or anything else—will continue at least until the end of the transition period. The question is this: will the Government replace this funding which would have been available had we been a member of the EU, as they have promised to do elsewhere?

[Baroness Goldie]

I say to the noble Baroness that that is a matter to be determined post Brexit. The Bill, however, is about a system that can operate only as long as the UK is an EU member state. I am merely pointing out why it will not be appropriate to continue that arrangement when the UK leaves the EU. The current scheme eligibility criteria specifically states:

“For British applicants … eligibility criteria must be complied with for the entire duration of the grant. If the United Kingdom withdraws from the EU during the grant period without concluding an agreement with the EU ensuring in particular that British applicants continue to be eligible, you will cease to receive EU funding (while continuing, where possible, to participate) or be required to leave the project”.


Requiring local authorities to start to provide information on this scheme during a time of additional complexity, as the Bill proposes, would diminish rather than enhance the enthusiasm and commitment in local communities in respect of twinning proposals.

That is not to say that the Government do not support the principle of twinning—indeed, the long-standing localist approach to twinning has over decades resulted in many hundreds of successful twinning arrangements. I reassure the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, who was particularly concerned about this, that the Government recognise the value of effective partnerships between strong and active local communities across Europe and the wider world.

The noble Baroness also raised the specific matter of the White Paper. As the Secretary of State for DExEU said on 12 July:

“We will shortly publish a White Paper on the withdrawal agreement”.—[Official Report, Commons, 12/7/18; col. 1158.]

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

I am sorry but the Secretary of State did not say that. The wording in the Statement was “next week”, not “shortly”.

[Baroness Goldie]

Well I have merely quoted from the line that I have been given from the Box, but the noble Baroness’s comments will, I am sure, be noted.