Children: Secure Children’s Homes

Baroness Gale Excerpts

Monday 7th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Gale]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Linklater, for bringing forward this very important debate. Ever since I have been in the House, I have admired her. A few years ago she took part in a debate that I initiated on women in prison. I was impressed with her knowledge then, and I have been impressed with her great experience in this area tonight. I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Shackleton, on her wonderful maiden speech and thank her for sharing her experiences with us. I certainly look forward to many more contributions from her in the future. My noble friend Lord Judd called her a strong and formidable woman, so I welcome her to the team of strong and formidable noble Baronesses in the House.

How we care for children is of immense importance to everyone, but it is especially important to vulnerable children such as those who are held in secure children's homes. Any measures that prevent children getting into crime should be welcomed by us all. The fact that there will be fewer places in secure children's homes, as the number of children in custody is falling, is welcomed by people such as Frances Done, chair of the Youth Justice Board, who in May this year said:

“We are pleased that fewer children and young people”—

especially in the younger age group—

“are entering custody and that prevention and rehabilitation work under way in the community is paying off”.

However, other experts in the field, such as Frances Crook, director of the Howard League, have said that if children are to be locked up, then secure children's homes are the best place rather than sending them to a young offender institution or a secure training centre, as they have higher reoffending rates and lower levels of educational achievement.

The Ministry of Justice announced in June that the Youth Justice Board is to be abolished as part of the Government’s drive to reduce the number of quangos, and despite the excellent work that it has done to reduce the level of crime and reoffending. Your Lordships’ House voted by a large majority not to include it in the Public Bodies Bill. At that time, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, said:

“It would be real sacrilege if we took out of the criminal justice system something that works, whatever the motives that are put forward, and introduced something that has not worked and has not been tried”.

Under the new system which will be transferred to local government with the youth offending teams, the Government say that there needs to be a local joined-up approach to address the multiple disadvantages that many young offenders have and the chaotic lifestyles that many lead. It seems to me that local authorities will in future play a bigger part and bear more of the costs. As criminal justice is not a devolved matter, but local government is, how will that work in England and Wales? Will there be separate and different standards in England and in Wales? For example, will English and Welsh children be treated differently? How will standards be set and who will set the standards to ensure that all of our children will be treated in a similar manner?

What discussions have the coalition Government had with the Welsh Government on this matter, and if there have been any, can the Minister say what has been the result? How can the Ministry of Justice operate in Wales on this matter if it cannot dictate terms to local authorities in Wales? If we are to move over to that system, what thought has been given to that?

Work in the community to prevent criminal activity among young people has to start at an early age, working with parents and schools. However, with different systems in place in the two countries of England and Wales, much discussion must be held on these matters before the Youth Justice Board is abolished. For everyone's sake, I hope that this system works as well as the Youth Justice Board has in reducing crime and reoffending rates among children.

I would love to speak for longer and tell the House about my experiences with community policing and the way that it has helped to reduce crime and keep children out of trouble, but I am not able to. However, I look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say.