Football Governance Bill [HL]

Baroness Fox of Buckley Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 15th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Pannick (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, and other noble Lords have made a powerful presentation of concern, which I understand, about the financial costs of regulation. It is a short point. It really is. The question is whether the amendment is a sensible way in which to address this matter. I suggest that if there is to be a review of the financial impact on regulated clubs of complying with the provisions of the Act, the best people to conduct that review are the clubs themselves and the leagues to which they belong. They can collate the material, assess the costs and provide a report to the Government, which they can publish. Everybody will be able to debate it. It is all transparent. There is absolutely no need, so far as I can see, to have a specific provision in the Bill that addresses this matter.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, there stands a contribution that does not know how tedious, time-consuming and expensive it is to write reports. Now we are putting on the same people, whom we have just said are going to be drowning in bureaucracy, another report for which they have to compile all the information and write. That was my view.

Although that is a simple point, it should be in the Bill because it is an underestimated threat of the Bill. I have no doubt that the Minister and the Government do not intend—

[Lord Bassam of Brighton (Lab)]

I made this point at an earlier part of our considerations. Put simply, all these clubs are limited companies and are regulated effectively through an audit process, so all of the financial information that will be required will be accumulated as a process and a product of their annual audit. I do not see that as excessive.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

I will carry on and make my point and we will see whether we can agree. I am concerned about it being excessive, but if it is not, this proposed new clause will prove the noble Lord right and me wrong, and that would be fine.

I wanted to start with the way that fans have really gone along with the Bill because they see it as something that will save smaller clubs and keep them from going under. Everybody knows about Bury and other clubs such as Chester City, Hereford United and Halifax Town. One of the most compelling things about the need for the regulator and the Bill is this notion that we will be able to save unsustainable, smaller clubs from going under. That is what gives it its moral force. People can rail against the big bad Premier League in some ways, and I understand that the Premier League, with its fans in the Chamber, is all we have talked about. I am glad that in this amendment we have started to talk about those smaller, poorer clubs, because I am worried that they will suffer as a consequence of the Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Hayward, explained that very well, and I just want to just tease that out a little more.

It is not just about operational costs in terms of compliance in a direct financial way. It is also the amount of energy and time that is going to be taken to comply by these very poorly staffed clubs, which have, say, two full-time members of staff plus volunteers. We know that time is money. I remind your Lordships of the speeches that we heard earlier on in Committee. The noble Lord, Lord Moynihan, made an excellent one about what it takes to write a corporate governance plan. I try to illustrate what it means to comply with equality, diversity and inclusion policies—forget any ideological disagreement on that. It costs time and money. By the way, to fulfil the EDI plans, you have to send all your staff on training. For example, the Civil Service at the moment spends 1 million days of Civil Service time on its civil servants going on EDI training. That is an indirect cost. The paperwork needed to keep this regulator happy—by the way, under the terrifying threat that you could lose your licence if there is non-compliance—really needs to be taken into consideration. It is not just money; it saps creativity and life out of the club, which in a way is a slightly different cost.

Recently, David Riley, who has moved from his role as legal director at the Competition and Markets Authority to become head of legal at the IFR, posted the following, rather boastfully, on LinkedIn:

“The first job is to recruit a team of lawyers to work within the shadow regulator as the legislation progresses. These lawyers will play a central role in shaping the IFR legal function, and working with others to help the IFR prepare to deliver on its statutory objectives”.


I read that out to a group of football fans, who said, “Oh my God, that sounds terrifying! Imagine if you’re running a small football club”. If you are a smaller, cash-strapped club hearing this, it is immediately about lawyers policing your work. You have no in-house experience to cope, so you think you had better bring in experts, consultants and third-party bodies. Again, that can lead to eye-watering costs, let alone your independence being undermined. I am concerned about that.

I will quickly take a step back, because sometimes we can get trapped in the specifics of football and all the passions and emotions associated with the game. I remind the Committee that one reason why so many of us are worried about this Bill is because of examples of other regulators created by legislation leading to damaging unintended consequences.

In terms of proportionality, a few weeks ago the tech journalist and academic John Naughton wrote an article in the Guardian bemoaning the terrible toll that the Online Safety Act and its heavy-handed regulator Ofcom were having on smaller, community-driven online forums, even though the Act’s stated aim was to target big tech and harms. I never really agreed with the censorious assault on big tech anyway but, as I argued with the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, when he was on the other side and taking the Bill through the House—just to show that I am not sectarian—there is always a danger that compliance costs associated with any regulator, in that instance with the Online Safety Act, will make it untenable for smaller platforms to bear the brunt of the law. As John Naughton explains, that is what is happening as we speak, leading to the potential closure of forums with benign purposes—his examples were those discussing cycling and cancer care.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, I too do not think that these amendments are necessary. I agree with the principles the noble Lord, Lord Norton, laid out—I think the whole Committee agrees with them—but we do not need the amendments. The Minister can correct me if I am wrong but we have the “state of the game” reports, which are built in to look at the structure and success of this. We have a better vehicle for looking at what goes on than we have ever had before. If we decide to get rid of it, do we go back to what we had? Do we go back to having all those small clubs saying, “Nobody’s checking that we’re selling our ground for a nice development of flats”—the first thing raised with me 30 years ago about what is wrong with certain types of people who buy football clubs. That sort of decision is not new.

We have a successful Premier League—all power to it—but we have to look at the other divisions and the rest of football. We have the opportunity to do that and I hope we carry on. When the Minister replies, we should hear what the Government would do if the “state of the game” report suddenly said that we have got it wrong somewhere. I hope we will hear that and that we will carry on, because the underlying problem that brought this Bill forward was one event that actually, oddly, preserved the Premier League. If we go forward with this, we need a series of reviews—I have already raised this. Who Watches the Watchdogs? and all the reports concern themes in Parliament, as does post-legislative review. If we can bring this in and we have a vehicle for delivering it, this Act might actually something of a beacon for how we can achieve it.

[Baroness Fox of Buckley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I challenge the approach of the noble Lord, Lord Hannett, to this by saying that I support the amendment. I object to the way this is posed as a fans’ piece of legislation, that the fans want it, and that anyone who does not support or has any reservations about the Bill is not thinking about the fans.

The Bill is based on Tracey Crouch’s original fan-led review but there is a danger of a sleight of hand. I know it sounds populist—and I am keen on populism—to say that this is all about the fans. Actually, it was based on 20,000 online responses, so it is not necessarily all fans. There are fans across the leagues at all different levels who are finding out the detail of the legislation and some of them are quite shocked. The fact that the media are beginning to pick up on it is quite important.

I would like fans to have a proper opportunity to have a debate as the law is understood and rolled out, so that they can take things into consideration. I am not trying to insult fans. I am not trying to say they do not know what they are voting for. That kind of paternalism annoys me. But I sat through about half of this Committee, maybe less, for hours and hours, as others have and, despite some snipes about filibustering, I have found the contributions to be brilliantly well informed. There have been lots of layers of debate and lots of nuance from all the contributors. I say that because I thought I knew what was coming up in the Bill but I have had some genuine shocks about its political consequences.