Employment Rights Bill

Baroness Fookes Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 16th June 2025 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Coffey (Con)]

My Lords, noble Lords may think that this amendment is a little odd: why does there need to be a right to consider an employer offer? It came about because of something that happened in the Port of Felixstowe within the last few years. At one point there was huge frustration on the part not just of the employer but of several workers, because, with the union and the employer negotiating in good faith—I am not criticising the union at all—the offer then made did not need to be put to the members. I am not suggesting that this is a loophole: I appreciate that there is back and forth and a current requirement to give lots of notice, with everything being done by post and so on. I can understand that it may not be reasonable that, every time an employer moves by a penny or so, that has to be spelt out. That would be truly ridiculous, but there is something to be said for establishing what is going on. Where is the leverage being applied?

Unfortunately—and I am not saying that there is a causal link between the two issues, but there is definitely a correlation—after a considerable number of strikes in the port of Felixstowe, within 18 months it was announced that a significant shipping line would no longer use Felixstowe as its principal destination in the United Kingdom but would go to the new London port at Tilbury instead. As I say, I am not saying there is a direct causal link, but I have my concerns about the lack of reliability. This, by the way, was the first dispute in 30 years at the port of Felixstowe, and it was quite fractious. It got more fractious because people started to break the strike. I understand that that is not the ideal place for people to be; nevertheless, people—although not everybody—felt that their union was not looking after them and their interests, but perhaps starting to look after the national interest. That led to quite a lot of aggro, not just face to face but on Facebook, with families falling out. In quite a small community, the impact of that can be quite substantial.

When I was speaking to people who worked at the port and to the employer, what stayed with me for some time was that they would have liked the chance to vote, even though the organisers of their local union—or, as they believed, the national union—decided they could not. For that reason, and recognising the transition that is coming as a consequence of the Bill, such as moving to much greater use of digital ballots, there is something to be said for enabling workers not to have to go through something as awful as breaking a strike. I understand why trade union members do not want to do that; but they feel that things need to be done in their interests locally, and that their employer should be allowed to make the offer.

I have put the amendment in this way—I am conscious of what the noble Lord, Lord Prentis of Leeds, who is no longer in his place, said earlier—because employers should not be trying to get around all sorts of rules to stop people being members of trade unions. That is already protected in law; the noble Lord referred to a situation that has only recently been resolved.

In effect, this amendment addresses one of the trade union disputes in my experience that I believe has had a consequential economic impact on a key part of the east coast. I should say that I intend to respond to comments made on this amendment.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Fookes) (Con)]

The noble Baroness will need to because it is an amendment, and therefore at the end one has to ask for it to be either considered or, by leave, withdrawn.

[Lord Fuller (Con)]

My Lords, I support this amendment, but not for the reasons my noble friend gave. Many years ago—Members on the Government Benches may realise quite how long ago this is when I give the names of the unions concerned, which are long since consigned to history—I was the director of a small haulage firm. It no longer exists or trades, but I cut my teeth on labour relations behind the wheel.

In our small business, which employed about 50 people, there were three types of worker: those who were not in a union at all, a small number who were with the TGWU—that dates me—and those with a new union, the United Road Transport Union. The shop steward of the URTU came to see me and said: “It’s like this, John. I think that you should recognise our union”. So I did. It was personally convenient to deal with one person rather than try to have a mass meeting with 30 or 40 people, all with different views. Unlike what some noble Lords might think of those on the Conservative Benches, I found a huge amount of value in being able to negotiate with the URTU, which had the most members but was not entirely pervasive in our company. Arthur Harris was in the TGWU—he was such a long-standing member of our business that he was employee no. 1 on our payroll system—and was not about to go to the URTU for a moment.

The point of this story is that I negotiated in good faith with the URTU and recognised that it had the most members. When making an agreement, we were somewhat apart but not completely, and I said: “Peter, put this offer to them and let’s see what they say”. He did not really want to, but the point is that I needed to make the offer as well to the other union, the TGWU, and to those members who were not in a union at all.

My noble friend made the point about the Port of Felixstowe and I inferred from her remarks that there was a single union to deal with, but that is not the landscape for many organisations. Later this evening I will talk about my experiences in local government, where there are three different unions involved—UNISON, Unite and the GMB—and a complicated negotiating environment.

I support this amendment because it provides equality to the smaller unions, not just the big ones, some of which have their own agendas. It is incumbent on all unionised labour to at least see what is on the table, whether or not their union negotiated it. That is why my noble friend’s Amendment 257A is very important and should be given proper consideration; it recognises the complex labour landscape found in many companies, particularly in private business, not just the monolithic larger organisations where there are single unions, facility time and other things.