Adult Social Care (Adult Social Care Committee Report)

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Monday 16th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, it is a great honour to follow the right reverend Prelate. In the same way, it was a great honour to have been a member of the Adult Social Care Committee. I pay tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, and the other members of the committee who took me along with them.

It was a learning experience for me, and there are one or two points that I would like to pick up. I notice that the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, is, sadly, not in her place. The thing I learned from her is something that we do not always think about: she talked a lot about the issue of ageing without children. I thank God that I have family and that we looked after my mother, who I will come on to in a minute. It is something that you do not appreciate until you hear it. The noble Baroness is a great champion for understanding that this will affect many, many people across the country. I was glad to learn that from her.

Similarly, I was very much a supporter of the suggestion, as mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Bradley, that we ought to have a commissioner for care and support. Just as the noble Baroness, Lady Barker, is a champion for her issue, we need a champion who can help my noble friend the Minister and other members of the Government to focus on this. Otherwise, it gets trodden down and nobody really takes responsibility; it is too big and, in the end, nothing really happens.

I made a plea last time I spoke on this subject and I make no apologies for repeating it. Looking around the House, I say to everybody: the one thing I learned is that it is important to take politics out of social care. Let us get politics out of it and let us try to help.

In the end, for me, it was an experience that suddenly became practical. During the time that we were sitting as a committee, my mother took ill in Liverpool; she sadly passed a few months ago. What is overridingly important is to have something that we missed—we did not understand what to do as a family; I have just made a note to call it a “guide for the ignorant”. We need a guide so that, when people find themselves in a situation like this, they know what to do, who to ring, where to go, who to ask. Currently, it is a lottery.

As it happens, I am from Liverpool and the organisation there was pretty impressive. There was a STARS scheme, which the Marie Curie centre had put on, and they came in to see my mum four times a day while she needed help. Without that, I do not know what we would have done. I live here, my sister lives in London and my mum was in a flat in Liverpool.

The experiences we had throughout were horrendous. As I have said once before here in the House, we experienced the best and the worst. The worst was when a nurse was assessing my mum—who could not speak any more—to see what the next stage of care would be. The nurse was in Maidenhead, or somewhere in Kent, and she was in Liverpool, unable to speak, and they did it on Zoom. It was a relic of Covid, of course, but it was no help to my mum at all. It took weeks before they had to pass on their report, from Margate, to a panel of three people who had never met my mother, to decide what sort of care she would get. It is mad. I repeat: we need a guide for the ignorant. The Government need to provide something like this so that people know where to go.

To conclude that story, the Marie Curie hospice in Liverpool was amazing; the people there were amazing. They cared for my mum for three and half months, which is pretty unusual in a hospice. They could not have been nicer. I remember after she passed, I thanked them for everything they had done and then I said, “But where is the gold watch? She has been in a hospice for three and half months”. They were amazing and I shout out to them.

In conclusion, it was a deep honour to have been a member of the committee chaired by the noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, and I learned so much. Following the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Fraser, I ask the Minister to explain the role of data and patient records, and how we can use technology to support people to stay in their homes as long as possible.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, it is a great privilege—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Davies, that in my keenness to follow the noble Lord, Lord Polak, I jumped up too early. I was very glad to hear about the experience of the noble Lord, Lord Polak, with Marie Curie. I must declare that I am a vice-president of Marie Curie; I should also declare my co-chairing of the Bevan Commission, an independent think tank on health and social care in Wales, and my experiences in palliative care.

The noble Baroness, Lady Andrews, is to be commended for a gloriously inspiring report on adult social care which spotlights how much could be achieved by co-production with those in receipt of services and those on whom they depend. The government response has pointed out that additional funding of “up to £2.8 billion” is available in 2023-24 and “up to £4.7 billion” in 2024-25. Can the Minister explain how this funding will be distributed, whether it is ring-fenced for local authorities and how it will be allocated? Palliative care patients often need both social care and specialist palliative care involving the voluntary sector. Will they be able to draw on this funding for their integrated services, which we have already heard about this evening from the noble Lord, Lord Polak?

“We all want to live in the place we call home with the people and things we love, in the communities where we look out for one another, doing what matters to us”.


This definition, as in the report from #SocialCareFuture, explains how social care is not only about services; it is about having a life. For those with progressive disease, this desire to live to the full becomes pressing and urgent. Palliative care works to restore quality of life and a sense of personal worth. This core aim should be the same across the whole of social care: to add life to years, rather than focusing only on years to life. To achieve it, the workforce must be empowered to use their initiative to meet need and with time enough to go at the pace of the person.

Today, I was fortunate enough to meet a group of mothers who have children and young adults with multiple complex conditions. They were stressing the financial problem: they are unpaid carers who are getting burned out, and there is a huge lost opportunity. They realise that their children must be somehow prepared for independence because, as they get older and die, their children are likely to outlive them. However, the current system does not encourage that. It is simply about providing a response to the most pressing needs, rather than taking a long-term preventive approach, particularly when these young people are still able to develop.

The report highlights the ageist and disability-phobic attitudes that impede the ability of those with disability and who are older to function to their maximal ability in society. Such attitudes exist widely, sadly, including in health. Will the Government work with the voluntary sector to change attitudes and ensure that people are free to state what they need? The question “What matters to you?”, followed by sensitive listening, can guide the provision of services that empower, rather than a menu of services just given to people.

As the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton, pointed out, we cannot expect the social care workforce to achieve the level of personalised care needed unless there is parity of esteem for them and without attention to their own welfare. Many have a wealth of valuable experience: the NHS could co-produce education and training with the social care workforce and with those with experience of receiving care. That would break down some barriers and improve integration.

In their response, the Government refer to the grant funding to Think Local Act Personal. Can the Minister tell us how that is being evaluated to ensure that holistic approaches reach the people on the receiving end of social care? Staff with skills need to be paid at an appropriate banding, with their managers also carrying a caseload so that they understand what is going on. Perhaps colleagues in health and management will then recognise the important job being done.

One thing I want to touch on in my closing moments is timely equipment. It can be essential to maintaining independence and decreasing the calls on hands-on care. What do the Government plan to do to decrease waste by recycling equipment such as mobility aids and so on? If equipment is not being recycled, could it then be sent to countries abroad as part of our aid programme? How much is wasted simply because things are not being used again and recycled in a timely manner?

Countess of Chester Hospital Inquiry

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Tuesday 5th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare that I am registered with the General Medical Council. I am a doctor and I have been involved in providing some support to the Nuffield review into disagreements in care of critically ill children, which is about to report. As the noble Baroness, Lady Merron, pointed out, this is unbearably and unbelievably terrible. I watched the whole story unfold almost with a sense of disbelief, except the awful thing is that one can believe it happened as it did, with the suppression of the whistleblowers.

That is what I want to pick up from the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Allan: we do not have a senior doctor on every board. The training of a doctor is different from the training of a nurse, a manager or an HR manager. That understanding of statistics is different. When a doctor tries to raise a concern but hits a brick wall, they need to be able to go directly to another doctor on the board to explore what they want to raise and because that other doctor is also subject to the GMC’s requirements. I quote from the GMC’s duties of a doctor:

“You must take prompt action if you think patient safety, dignity or comfort is being compromised”—


“must” being the key word. It was easier for staff to raise issues in the days when there was a senior doctor on the board. It did not always work, but I hope the Government will look at that as an action that could be taken much more rapidly. The GMC also says that doctors must contribute to adverse event recognition.

Again, as has been pointed out, these things have happened before: we had the Robert Francis report into Mid Staffs and the Bristol inquiry into heart surgery. Those people who have been whistleblowers have been traumatised, but nobody has been as completely destroyed as the parents when they know that their child has been killed. Child bereavement is overwhelmingly terrible, but when you know that it was from the action of another person it is even more impossible to come to terms with it.

I hope the Government really will look at whether some urgent intermediate action can be taken, and whether they can have discussions with the GMC so that doctors who are reported to the GMC as being difficult because they are raising concerns are not treated with some of the problems that have arisen, where we have seen doctor suicides and so on when they have been inappropriately referred. I hope the Government will seriously consider whether there needs to be a senior doctor on every board, both in hospital and a provision in the community. Even the appraisal systems that are in place do not seem to be working adequately to protect whistleblowers.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for bringing her knowledge and skills to this. Bringing senior doctors very much goes along with the sentiment that we were all trying to express about equipping boards in the right way to be the first line of defence in bringing such things up. I know that many boards have doctors on them, but the noble Baroness raised a very good point; it is something that we should take back. From my point of view, I absolutely see the sense in making sure we do that.

Community Health Services: Waiting Lists

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Wednesday 12th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As noble Lords probably know, we published this data for the first time in March, so it is only now we are getting the data that we can truly work on it. It sets out 35 different areas where we understand those waiting lists for the first time, so we know which ones to prioritise—home oxygen being clearly one of those.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, with a staff absence rate of 5.6% overall for NHS community staff, which is equivalent to 75,000 staff, what are the Government doing to address this high level of sickness, including mental health sickness? Without the staff, the services cannot be provided. Can the Minister also explain what is being done to target those who have particular training in looking after children, given that in some areas the waiting lists for children are incredibly high, particularly for mental health services for children in the community?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is correct: absenteeism is often an example, in the same way as poor retention is, of problems in the wider workplace and the pressures that people have to face now. That is why the long-term workforce plan, which I think was welcomed by all noble Lords, looks to tackle every aspect: recruiting more staff so the pressures on individuals are reduced; making sure we have training and retention plans in place; and the necessary skills training in each area, including that of young people.

Dementia Palliative Care Teams

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Thursday 15th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We have developed the dementia palliative care toolkit, which we are spreading around all the ICBs. Health Education England has developed an end-of-life care training programme, which is being taken up. Derbyshire has been a key part of the efforts as well, with its own programmes. It is very much our responsibility to make sure that the ICBs, which by law have to provide these services, are providing them to a high standard.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest in palliative care and as vice-president of Marie Curie. When are the Government going to produce a strategy for these ICBs to commission against, and against which the provision of palliative care can be measured across the country? The evidence at present is that it is extremely variable. While toolkits have been rolled out in some areas, that has not happened everywhere, and some ICBs seem to have remarkably little commissioning on the table working with the voluntary sector, in particular, and local authorities. I was appalled to see the draft major conditions strategy, in which palliative care for people with dementia is only one short phrase rather than a distinct paragraph.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Dementia is an important part of the major conditions strategy and obviously there will be more coming out of that going forward. As I said, the Health and Care Act made the ICBs firmly responsible. Some are excellent examples, such as Derbyshire; for the others that are not, it is very much our responsibility in the centre, and I include Ministers in that. I have mentioned before that each of us has six ICBs that we look after, and part of our job is making sure that they are commissioning to the standards they need to.

Mental Health Services: Huntington’s Disease

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Monday 12th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Yes, I think is probably the best answer I can give in the circumstances. I will absolutely do that and will write to my noble friend.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, the draft major conditions strategy refers to mental health conditions and dementias so that should include diseases such as Huntington’s. The problem is—and I declare my interest in palliative care—that as these patients become terminally ill, they have complex physical and mental health needs, yet we know there are serious inequities in provision. Despite the Government’s own amendment to the Health and Care Act 2022, the draft strategy does not have a distinct section on palliative and end-of-life care. Why have the Government not made this a core, integrated part of the strategy for these major conditions when patients, such as the ones with Huntington’s, have really complex needs—and their families have complex needs too—particularly around the time of their death?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is correct that they have complex needs and I know from personal experience, with both my mother and my father, the importance of end-of-life palliative care. I thank the noble Baroness for the warning of the question and have been assured that the integrated whole person care approach that the major conditions strategy sets out will include palliative care measures.

NHS National Health Inequalities Improvement Programme

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Thursday 25th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Absolutely. Again, there are also very good grounds for locally sourcing in that way in terms of the environment and reducing the carbon footprint. I must admit to not being very familiar with some of the pilots mentioned, so I will find out and get back to the noble Baroness.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, the latest data from the National Child Measurement Programme showed that among 10 to 11 year-olds at school, almost 38% were overweight, of whom nearly two-thirds were obese. Do the Government recognise that this represents severe malnutrition in that cohort and that public health should be involved in the planning and inspection of school meals to try to improve that figure? These children will become health problems for the whole of the nation going forward unless their malnutrition is corrected.

Pharmacies: Medicines at Home

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

I thank my noble friend. She is right to stress the importance of how we support Pharmacy First as a way of delivering primary services and supporting pharmacies in and of themselves. Technology will play a key part in that, both in terms of navigating the patient, when appropriate, to use the pharmacy and by allowing them to book pharmacy appointments.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, an estimated £300 million-worth of prescribed NHS medicines are wasted every year. Over half of those come from medicines either disposed of in care homes or returned to pharmacies. Do the Government have plans to ensure that, where terminally ill patients are being cared for at home, “just in case” medication, which is personalised, is available so that if a crisis arises out of hours it can be dealt with rapidly and appropriately, and so that some of that wastage could be decreased?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Absolutely. That is one of the major reasons why blister packs are not always the right solution, because there are many cases of wastage in exactly the way that the noble Baroness has mentioned. Wastage is one of the many reasons why both NICE and the Royal Pharmaceutical Society have come out against the blanket use of blister packs.

Diphtheria

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Tuesday 18th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

We are all aware of the rumours and allegations about the safety of the MMR vaccine, which we are all delighted to know were totally unfounded. As my noble friend says, it has been quite a task to regain confidence in it, but we are doing so and vaccination rates have gone up. I will provide her with the exact details of those new take-up rates.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

How are the Government working with those countries through which migrants pass when fleeing for their lives from war zones, given that many of them are held in very poor conditions where they pick up infectious diseases, including such things as scabies—which are parasites—TB and other diseases? They may also be exposed to chemicals because they take on farm work or factory work in a desperate attempt to get some money prior to arriving in this country. By working with other countries, we may decrease the burden on our NHS and prevent people presenting late with conditions such as diphtheria or even cutaneous diphtheria, which is extremely rare in this country but is now being seen in some of these very deprived populations.

[Lord Markham (Con)]

To be honest, I think the most effective method is to have the screening when people enter. Refugees come in from across the world so, to concentrate resources, it is best done on entry. The record speaks for itself; an 88% take-up rate is very high, comparable to that of the general UK population. I think we have got it right.

Patient Deaths: Ambulance Waiting Times

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

Local ICBs—integrated care boards—are integral to this, understanding the need for ambulances in each of their areas. As noble Lords have heard me say before, often, having a fall does not require an ambulance response at all, but it is much better to have a full service. Now, it is the responsibility of every ICB to set up a full service so it can respond more appropriately. Additionally, we are tasking each ICB with getting on top of ambulance wait times.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, the Royal College of Emergency Medicine’s February report says:

“The crisis in emergency care is relentless and staff are burned out and exhausted. The significant shortfall of beds and staff is driving this crisis.”


In February there were 1.2 million A&E attendances. More than 126,000 patients waited more than four hours from the decision to admit them—these are trolley waits —and nearly 35,000 of those were delayed by more than 12 hours. What are the Government doing in their workforce plan to look at projected workload and figures and ensure that the plan has minimum staffing levels and staff numbers overall?

[Lord Markham (Con)]

The noble Baroness is correct that capacity is key to this, as are the workforce and the workforce plan. I am pleased to say that a more advanced version of that will be published shortly, hopefully showing that we are getting on top of it. At the same time, we have put 7,000 extra beds into the system, which is starting to have an impact. Category 2 wait times are down by an hour compared with last month, but clearly there is more that we need to do.

Physiotherapy: Rehabilitation Services

Baroness Finlay of Llandaff Excerpts

Thursday 23rd February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Markham (Con)]

As I said, physio is key to rehabilitation, whether for strokes, as we have discussed, or for any one of the number of reasons that people are in hospital and trying to come out. As I mentioned, we have seen increases: there are about 7% more people now in training each year, and that figure increases each year. We now have about 50,000 physios in the public and private sectors who are providing those types of services. Clearly, there are examples where we need to do more, but we are also making progress.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as the president of the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy. Do the Government recognise that almost three-quarters of physiotherapists feel that they cannot do their job properly now, and that, as well as a workforce plan, there needs to be a workplace plan for adequate rehabilitation that goes way beyond cancer and stroke services? All orthopaedic operations, and many other interventions, will not be successful without adequate, immediate physiotherapy in the post-op period, so, by failing to provide physiotherapy, we are stacking up problems for the future with long-term physical dependency and not maximising the benefit of interventions provided early.