Ukraine

Baroness Chapman of Darlington Excerpts

Friday 25th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, in his closing speech. I agreed with everything he said. From being a scrappy, feisty Minister, he has become a genuinely statesmanlike shadow Minister.

I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions, but would particularly like to welcome my noble friend Lord Spellar. I have known him for quite some time, and I am not sure he is accustomed to bathing in the warm glow of adoration in many of the places that he has spoken over the years, so I hope he has not found things here too uncomfortable. We are genuinely pleased that he is here. Perhaps there can now be fewer conversations between him and my husband on Sunday mornings; sometimes, there have been three people in my marriage. For all his feistiness and no doubt his decades of fighting the extreme politics on the left of our country, there is a softer side to my noble friend; he has been—and I hope continues to be—a leading light in the APPG on horticulture. I very much look forward to his future contributions in this House.

I have made many notes during this debate. I will try as hard as I can to reply to all the questions that have been raised but, if I fail to do so, please allow me to check Hansard after the debate and I will endeavour to answer any questions that I miss in writing.

As the Foreign Secretary said at the UN Security Council last month:

“Putin’s invasion of Ukraine is in his interest alone”,


but the consequences matter for us all. If Putin wins in Ukraine, the threat posed by Russia to UK and European security will increase. The credibility of international law will be severely undermined, and a signal will be sent to authoritarian leaders elsewhere that aggression pays and that the commitments and statements of the UK and her allies are worthless. We cannot allow this to happen.

As we approach 1,000 days of war, the situation on the front line for Ukraine is incredibly difficult. Russia has made some tactical advances and continues to intentionally target Ukrainian energy infrastructure, to punish millions of innocent Ukrainians ahead of winter. This month, Russian missiles have struck several commercial vessels in the Black Sea, some loaded with grain destined for global markets—yet another grim reminder of Russia’s disregard for international law and global food security. But Ukraine continues to prove that with the right tools it can defend itself, and proves its determination to do so. I note the calls for Storm Shadow and other measures from this Government, and I do not for one second complain about any noble Lord who is pushing us to do more, to go faster, harder, and to be further ahead. I welcome that. I just hope that in return, noble Lords will appreciate that I need to be careful what I say, and that, at the moment, the position of the Government remains as it was. I know that this is entirely what noble Lords expected me to say, but I want to be clear that we do not resist or complain about any contributions that urge us to do more in our support for Ukraine.

Earlier this year, Ukraine successfully headed off a Russian attempt to establish a new foothold in Kharkiv. In August, Ukraine launched a bold offensive across the Russian border into Kursk, targeting Putin’s supply lines, exposing the vulnerabilities of his front-line forces and demonstrating Ukraine’s ability to achieve strategic surprise. In recent weeks, Ukraine has conducted several successful strikes on major Russian munitions depots, restricting Putin’s ability to resupply his forces.

The UK’s support for Ukraine is, as many have said, ironclad. The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, said that freedom does not come for free. I would say that failing to support Ukraine would have a far higher price than the one we are paying now. We have provided £12.8 billion in support for Ukraine, including £7.8 billion of military support and £5 billion of non-military support. I note the thoughtful comments from the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, about psychological support for children and post-traumatic support. He made a very good point; it is something that the Government are mindful of and support. We have been clear that we will support Ukraine for as long as it takes. Helping Ukraine to emerge from this war as a strong, secure and sovereign nation, able to deter future Russian aggression, is in the best interests of both the UK and our international partners.

I shall now address some of the important questions that have been asked in today’s debate. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and the noble Lords, Lord Carlile and Lord Banner, made memorable speeches. They bring extensive personal knowledge and enriched our debate enormously. We thank them for that. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Banner: please thank your niece for her letter to us. We do not need her thanks but we do appreciate them. Please tell her that we—in this House, in particular—stand with her.

The UK is taking action to support Ukraine using all the levers at our disposal. The noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, and the noble Lord, Lord Shinkwin, were correct to remind us that we must constantly remind ourselves and others of why this matters. It is not an act of charity; it is about self-interest and collective interest all at once. If the territorial integrity of Ukraine is lost or compromised, the message we send to the world is that war wins.

I turn to the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Stevens, my noble friend Lord Spellar and others about our military-industrial policy. The Government are well aware of those points, which were well made. That is why we are appointing a national munitions director, both to help co-ordinate this work and to ensure that our military obligations to Ukraine can be met.

So far, the UK has provided £7.8 billion in military support to Ukraine. As many noble Lords noted, we announced on Tuesday that, on top of that money, we will provide an additional £2.26 billion to enable Ukraine to purchase essential military equipment; this represents the UK’s contribution to the Extraordinary Revenue Acceleration Loans to Ukraine scheme, which was agreed by the G7 leaders in June. This historic loan, which will be repaid by revenues stemming from immobilised Russian sovereign assets, will ensure that Russia pays for the damage it has caused Ukraine.

The noble Earl, Lord Courtown, asked in his excellent speech when that money will be available. There will be further announcements in the Budget. We anticipate that it will be soon or in due course—whatever form of words we are using at the moment—but we are not going to hang about. Some legislation will be needed to allow for this.

I am grateful to the noble Lords who encouraged the use of all diplomatic and political means. That is why the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and the Defence Secretary have continued to engage closely with international partners: to ensure that Ukraine gets the military support it needs now so that it can defend itself against Russian aggression. The Prime Minister discussed this with his Quad counterparts in Berlin last Friday. We remain in close discussion with Ukraine on the support—be it military, financial or humanitarian—that it needs to secure a just and lasting peace.

Several noble Lords—in particular, the noble Lord, Lord Purvis of Tweed, and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, on the Liberal Democrat Front Bench—mentioned the BRICS and CHOGM summits. We had noticed these. This week, Putin hosted the BRICS summit in Kazan. With mounting evidence of Russia’s war crimes, the international community must remain united in demonstrating to Putin that such actions will not go unchallenged. We must ensure that engagements with Putin are never treated as business as usual. We urge all our partners to use every opportunity to impress on Putin the need to end the war immediately by withdrawing the Russian forces from Ukraine and ceasing his illegal attacks.

Since the start of the Russian invasion, the UK and our international partners have implemented the most severe package of sanctions ever imposed on a major economy. They are working: Putin himself has admitted that sanctions are causing a “colossal amount of difficulties”. Where we can do more, we will. Thanks to efforts by the UK and its allies, Putin faces extreme costs from the conflict. The UK has sanctioned over 2,000 individuals and entities under the Russian sanctions regime, with over £22 billion of Russian assets now frozen because of UK financial sanctions.

The noble Lords, Lord McConnell and Lord Alton, asked about Chelsea FC. I assure noble Lords that we are committed to making progress on this. The money is held in an account, and it will leave that account only when we are sure it will go on humanitarian work, but we are moving forward with that. This has resulted in depriving Russia of over $400 billion—or four years of funding for Putin’s war machine. The UK continues to co-ordinate through the G7 to undermine Putin’s war efforts and engage countries that have seen an increase in the trade of sanctioned goods.

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, asked a number of questions specifically about North Korea and the discussions we had earlier in the week on liquefied natural gas. We discussed this during a sanctions SI debate in the Moses Room on Monday. I do not have the full answer, and I do not think he expected me to have it today, but there has been a letter to which we will respond in full. For now, however, the UK has taken significant action to constrain Russia’s LNG revenues. In the past month, we have sanctioned nine vessels carrying Russian LNG, including vessels loading from the US and UK-sanctioned Arctic LNG 2 project. This is in addition to our 2023 ban on the import of Russian LNG and export ban on energy-related goods to restrict Russia’s longer-term LNG production. We will continue to explore options to target Russian LNG revenue, while balancing impacts on global supply and energy security.

On the DPRK, we are committed to accountability for the most serious international crimes. The UK consistently supports strong resolutions on human rights in the DPRK at both the UN Human Rights Council and General Assembly. We also joined 53 other countries in a co-sponsored joint statement noting the 10th anniversary of the UN commission of inquiry into DPRK human rights and calling on the DPRK to co-operate with the special rapporteur. The UK will continue to build on momentum from the COI’s 10th anniversary and reinforce the commission’s call for the UN Security Council to consider both the human rights situation in the DPRK and appropriate action to ensure accountability, including through consideration of referral to the International Criminal Court.

The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, raised the issue of disinformation, and the noble Viscount, Lord Chandos, spoke about journalists. This is really important and I am very grateful that they raised the point. Russia has made no secret that it is making a strategic priority of this. There is a reason why Russia is establishing cultural centres and language learning through Africa and Latin America. It is powerful and is working to Russia’s advantage. However, we also have some strength in this space. I point to the work of the World Service, particularly when we are talking about Ukraine. The most reliable record of Russian war dead is being compiled by the BBC and the World Service. They have been supported well by families inside Russia. They have found that people as young as 18 or 19, and people well into their 70s, have been killed in Ukraine. Their work is commendable. It will probably come as a surprise to many people here in the UK, but we should promote and acknowledge it because it comes at no little risk to some of those journalists involved.

Since February 2022 the UK has committed £5 billion in non-military support. This includes £4.1 billion in fiscal support through World Bank loan guarantees and £937 million in bilateral assistance. I pay special tribute to the work of the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, especially on sexual violence. He asked me about the special envoy. We will make an announcement on that in due course, but I assure him that the work he did will continue. We thank him for that work.

This year £242 million of bilateral funding to Ukraine will fund humanitarian, energy, recovery and reconstruction programmes. Furthermore, the UK has provided more than £370 million for energy security and resilience in Ukraine through grants and guarantees, including £64 million to repair, replace and protect energy infrastructure that has been targeted by Russia—as the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, pointed to—with ongoing support for solar panels to power hospitals, back-up generators to keep the lights on and power generation equipment in Kharkiv and Odessa.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Jones, for bringing a delegation from Lviv this week to discuss a wide range of issues with me and many other noble Lords, including recovery and those regional partnerships. We will work closely with a range of international partners to deliver reforms and economic support for Ukraine’s recovery and reconstruction, through the Ukraine Donor Platform and bilaterally.

The noble Lord, Lord Callanan, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leicester and the noble Baroness, Lady Harris, spoke of the welcome that Ukrainian refugees have received and the extensive contributions that they have made to our communities. I was asked about visas and our plans for the Homes for Ukraine scheme. I assure noble Lords that there will be an opportunity for Ukrainians here to extend their visa if they want to, starting after Christmas. They will be able to extend on the same terms they have now for another 18 months.

To those who are motivated by a desire for peace and who are urging the Government to do more to urge the Ukrainians towards a conclusion to this war, I say this: it is for the Ukrainians to determine their position on a ceasefire or peace negotiations. Together with more than 90 countries, we made clear at the June peace summit that for peace to be just and lasting, it must be based on international law, the UN charter and the will of the Ukrainian people. Putin cannot be trusted. Russia has violated multiple previous agreements, as the noble Baroness, Lady Harris, recalled, including the 1994 Budapest memorandum in which it committed, among other things, to respect Ukraine’s sovereignty and national borders in return for Ukraine agreeing to give up its Soviet-era nuclear arsenal.

Putin has also ignored the demand of 141 countries of the UN General Assembly for the complete withdrawal of Russian forces from Ukrainian territory. Make no mistake: we will be sure to hold Putin and his cronies to account for the hideous atrocities they have committed. In May 2022, alongside the EU and the US, the UK launched the Atrocity Crimes Advisory Group to support the office of the prosecutor-general in Ukraine in its domestic accountability efforts. So far the UK has provided £6.2 million to support Ukraine’s domestic work to document, investigate and prosecute war crimes. This is in addition to £2 million that the UK has provided to the International Criminal Court to collect evidence and support survivors. The UK will support work towards establishing a special tribunal on the crime of aggression against Ukraine, to ensure that those responsible for these barbaric crimes are held to account for their actions.

I end this debate by echoing the Prime Minister’s words at the UN General Assembly last month. We will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes, because the alternative would be to confirm that international law is merely a paper tiger and that aggressors can do whatever they like. We will never let that happen because it is our duty to respond to a more dangerous world with strength and to keep our people safe. Putin must not be allowed to expand his mafia state into a mafia empire. We see his actions. We know who he is. We support Ukraine. Ukraine must and will prevail.

Motion agreed.