Energy Bill [HL]

Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 16th January 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, for her amendments. I start by reminding noble Lords that this part of the Bill was published in draft and scrutinised by the BEIS Select Committee.

Amendments 213 to 219 seek to include gas under the definitions of core fuels and core fuel sector activity. These measures broadly seek to address threats to the security of fuel supply by introducing powers to ensure fuel supply resilience for the core fuel sector. They capture companies involved in oil-based products, which include heating oil, liquefied petroleum gas and gas oil, also known as red diesel.

I understand the reasoning for gas to be included in these definitions, given that it is utilised for heating and cooking in homes as well as fuelling power stations that provide electricity and contribute to overall energy security. Some forms of gas are, however, already included in this measure, such as liquefied petroleum gases—propane and butane.

I believe that my noble friend the Minister has previously written to the noble Baroness to highlight that the way gas is transported, handled and stored is different from oil, which operates under a separate regulatory regime. For the benefit of your Lordships’ House: gas is transported and handled across the country through a network of pressurised pipelines that connect gas terminals to the distribution network, and this infrastructure is owned by the national grid. I also highlight that the measures in the Bill are limited to the resilience and continued operation of the core fuel sector, which we traditionally refer to as the downstream oil sector.

The inclusion of gas generally would significantly widen the scope of this part and bring a wide range of stakeholders who are already heavily regulated into the scope of the Bill. The level of regulation and resilience in place for the gas industry is significantly higher than that of the oil sector and I caution against adding further regulation to the sector of the kind outlined by these amendments.

I assure the noble Baroness that the gas system is resilient and we have a highly diverse source of gas supply in Great Britain to rely on. It includes pipelines from the UK and Norwegian continental shelves, interconnection with the European continent and three liquefied natural gas—LNG—terminals, providing Great Britain with one of the largest LNG import infrastructures in Europe. I am sure the noble Baroness is aware that last summer the UK was responsible for providing a significant amount of natural gas to mainland Europe through this land bridge.

National Grid Gas has robust, long-standing emergency procedures in place for the extremely unlikely event of an emergency on the gas network. The Government continue to work closely with Ofgem, National Grid Gas and other key industry organisations to monitor the gas supply horizon and prepare for the winter. The overarching aim is that fuel supply is maintained as we transition to a net-zero economy, and I assure noble Lords that the department is also exploring the longer-term options for gas storage and other clean energy, such as hydrogen.

I turn now to Amendments 220, 221 and 222, which relate to the financial assistance measures under Clause 222. It is important to highlight that the Government currently have no dedicated powers to enable spending for the purpose of core fuel resilience. I must emphasise that existing spending powers are limited in terms of their application. Current powers do not apply to providing financial assistance for the purpose of improving or maintaining the resilience of the core fuel sector.

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[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, before I start, as we may talk about energy storage later, I declare my interest as a director of Aldustria Limited, which is into energy storage. I am also chair of the Cornwall and Isles of Scilly Local Nature Partnership.

First, I congratulate the Government on the Chris Skidmore report that has just come out. It is one of the best reports sponsored by the Government, and I look forward to hearing their reaction to its recommendations. There is some really good stuff in there that must be applauded.

Generally, I welcome these amendments. We know that we have to decarbonise our energy and, in particular, our electricity system; the Government have committed to do so completely by 2035. To do that, we have to make sure that we can deliver. Probably pretty well everybody agrees that methods of implementation, planning and getting wind farms into the gestation period all need to happen quicker, but we also know that there is a biodiversity crisis.

I say to the noble Baroness, Lady Worthington, that I deal a lot with the Wildlife Trusts, and it is about nature recovery, not stopping stuff. No other organisation is more into pointing out that we have been in retreat, we continue to retreat and that we need to reverse that—and the ways of doing so, primarily through agriculture but also, in the marine environment, various other ways as well.

I get a bit involved in the Celtic Sea development, which, I am pleased to say, the Minister mentioned. Down in the south-west we have been saying that there needs to be a holistic look at the effects of that programme on the environment—marine and terrestrially, where it comes on board—and that the research needs to be done in advance. That should quicken it, in that it is done in one whole system rather than by individual planning applications for individual farms or floating facilities, and so on. Through that, there is not necessarily a conflict between the two.

I very much support the exposition of the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, about the hierarchy, because I am certain that, as we know from onshore and things we have talked about before, off-setting as we knew it is an excuse, mainly for developers—I declare that I have a developer role. It is sometimes too easy to push the problem somewhere else and not confront it where you are actually causing the damage. One of the problems is enforcement and making sure that those things actually happen.

As I said, I generally welcome these amendments and trying to speed up the process, which is necessary, but, like the noble Baroness, Lady Young, I am concerned that we need to make sure that the powers given under these amendments are restricted to environmental improvement, in that they do not detract from that. I am particularly interested in how this compensation might work. The mitigation hierarchy absolutely needs to be put in primary legislation, but I want to understand from the Minister whether it is the Government’s intent that mitigation elsewhere should be a last resort. That is the fundamental question, and I would be very interested to hear the answer.

On the voluntary marine recovery fund, the idea of a voluntary fund seems very strange to me. What does it mean? I would like to understand from the Minister whether it means that, ultimately, it is voluntary. Is it voluntary for a developer that cannot do mitigation as we would all wish to contribute to this fund, or is it, at that point, compulsory? I do not get it. If it is voluntary, I am heavily concerned.

In addition, who will manage it in England? I understand well and I agree that it should be farmed out to the devolved authorities, but who will be the manager of that fund? I assume that it would involve rather large amounts of money, so how it is managed will be particularly important.

I also understand, although I do not think it is in the amendments, that there will be offshore wind environmental standards; I think that is in part of the briefing. I presume that these will have to be done by Defra. Defra is absolutely useless at doing environmental standards anything like on time. It has the whole of the EU repeal legislation Bill to do; I think the Defra Minister, Richard—

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

Benyon.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

Yes; the noble Lord, Lord Benyon, said that there were 1,200 pieces of legislation. I am therefore very concerned about how those standards will be produced and when. Perhaps the Minister could just give us an idea of those deadlines. I have a concern about enforcement generally but I am sure that the Minister will say, “They will be enforced.”

I have a further question in this area, which is around making sure in future that we have much better co-ordination on new developments and sharing infrastructure. I know this has come up in the Bill, but can the Minister assure us that this will be much better managed than in the past and that it will be a network rather than point to point? I again congratulate the Government on their agreement with the EU last month on the North Seas Energy Cooperation forum, which the UK has now joined. That makes complete sense to me. I will be interested to hear from the Minister what the next step on that co-operation is.

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[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

Perhaps it is something like that.

The Government state that the best means to manage hazardous nuclear waste in the long term is in GDF undersea burial sites. Can the Minister tell us how they have concluded that that is the best possible means? Clearly we have plenty of it and we will have plenty more. We support nuclear power and nuclear generation as part of the overall mix of energy fuels to supply the UK—there is no question about that. However, dealing with hazardous waste is an important matter that we would like some information about.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, for the opportunity to debate and discuss Clause 230.

This clause relates to geological disposal facilities. We have spoken about this often in the Chamber during Questions. GDFs are highly engineered facilities capable of isolating and containing radioactive waste within multiple protective barriers deep underground, so that no harmful quantities of radioactivity ever reach the surface environment.

The Government consider a GDF to be essential to the successful decommissioning of the UK’s civil nuclear legacy and our new-build nuclear power programme which will support the UK Government’s net-zero ambitions and their energy security strategy. The process to find a site for a GDF is under way, and it is therefore vital that we have a clear legal framework to ensure that such a site will be licensed and subject to oversight by the Office for Nuclear Regulation—the ONR.

On the noble Baroness’s point about disturbance, there is no evidence that any disturbances were caused by the specific seismic studies undertaken on behalf of Nuclear Waste Services. We have not seen any, and none has been drawn to our attention, but if the noble Baroness has other information, obviously we would be very grateful if we could see it.

Clause 230 makes clear that certain nuclear sites, including a GDF once prescribed in regulations, located wholly or partly in or under the territorial sea adjacent to the UK require a licence and are regulated by the ONR. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, I have no idea why it says “wholly or partly”; I take his point that it is a long way off to get to “partly in our territorial waters”. However, presumably that is a drafting necessity.

The GDF siting process is a consent-based approach which requires a willing community to be a partner in the project’s development. Four areas have entered the siting process: three areas in West Cumbria—in Copeland and Allerdale—and one in Theddlethorpe in Lincolnshire. This clause is intended to provide clarity to parties with an interest in the GDF process that a GDF in their community, whether located deep below the land surface or deep below the seabed, will be safe, secure and appropriately regulated by the ONR. I would like to be clear: no part of a GDF will be in the sea itself, nor will radioactive waste be dumped in the sea. That is banned by international conventions, including the London convention and protocol. Whether a GDF is built in the geological formations deep below the land surface or deep below the seabed, it will be accessed from facilities on land, and the waste will be isolated deep underground within multiple barriers to ensure no harmful quantities of radioactivity reach the surface environment.

I thank noble Lords for their contributions, I hope this has assured the noble Baroness of the Government’s intentions for this clause, and I hope she will feel able not to oppose that this clause stand part of the Bill.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

I raised the question of whether the Government are aware of or concerned about any unlicensed, unregulated nuclear sites, which the Explanatory Memorandum seems to suggest might be a reason for this.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

My officials say that that is not a concern to us. If we establish that it is otherwise, then of course we will let the Committee know.

Clause 230 agreed.

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Moved by

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist]

227B: After Clause 237, insert the following new Clause—
“Chapter 3Relevant nuclear pension schemesCivil nuclear industry: amendment of relevant nuclear pension schemes(1) The Secretary of State may by regulations make provision requiring a designated person to amend the provisions of a relevant nuclear pension scheme in respect of which the person is designated—(a) for the purpose of making scheme-specific changes;(b) for the purpose of making changes that relate to any scheme-specific changes;(c) for the purpose of making contribution rate adjustments.(2) “Scheme-specific changes”, in relation to a relevant nuclear pension scheme, are changes that—(a) relate to defined benefits for members of the scheme, and(b) are in connection with one or more of the matters mentioned in subsection (3).(3) Those matters are—(a) securing that the structure under which the defined benefits in question accrue is a career average revalued earnings structure (in particular where it would otherwise be a final salary structure);(b) providing for other changes to the amounts of such of those defined benefits as are payable in respect of members of the scheme;(c) providing for revaluations of pensionable earnings, or of benefits in deferment or pensions in payment, to be by reference to the consumer prices index (and not the retail prices index) but not involving imposing a cap on any revaluation or revaluation rate;(d) setting percentage rates, for contributions to the scheme by members of the scheme, that are higher than they would otherwise be; (e) setting periods for which contributions to the scheme by members of the scheme are required to be made that are longer than they would otherwise be.(4) Amendments made by virtue of subsection (1)(b) may include amendments relating to benefits provided under the scheme other than defined benefits.(5) “Contribution rate adjustments” means such adjustments—(a) to the rates of contributions to the scheme by its members in respect of defined benefits, or(b) to the salary bands to which such contribution rates apply, as are considered appropriate by the designated person (acting on actuarial advice) to ensure that the average contribution rate for members of the scheme in respect of defined benefits is as close as reasonably practicable to 8.2%.(6) Where a person is required by regulations under this section to amend the provisions of a relevant nuclear pension scheme, the amendments may be made—(a) free from any consent requirements set out in the scheme, and(b) notwithstanding provision made by or under any other Act of Parliament, or any rule of law, that would otherwise prevent or limit, or impose conditions on, the making of the amendments.(7) Amendments made by virtue of subsection (1)(a)—(a) must not relate to service prior to the date on which the amendments are made;(b) may be made in the case of a particular scheme on one occasion only.(8) Nothing in this section limits any power that a designated person has to amend a relevant nuclear pension scheme.(9) A person may not be designated in relation to a relevant nuclear pension scheme unless it appears to the Secretary of State that the person has the power to amend the scheme.(10) In this section, “designated” means designated by regulations under this section.”Member's explanatory statement
This new Clause is the first Clause in a new Chapter of Part 12 of the Bill (also containing the other new Clauses inserted after Clause 237 by amendments in Lord Callanan’s name). This new Clause enables regulations to be made requiring persons with responsibility for pension schemes for public sector employees in the nuclear sector to amend those schemes in line with wider changes to public sector pensions.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I turn now to the amendments in the name of my noble friend the Minister. The 2011 report by the noble Lord, Lord Hutton of Furness, started the Government on the road to the reform of public sector pensions. While the Public Service Pensions Act 2013 made a large number of reforms, it did not cover all public sector bodies, including those within the Nuclear Decommissioning Authority group. A proposed bespoke career average revalued earnings scheme was, following statutory consultation with affected NDA employees and a ballot of union members, formally accepted by the trade unions. The bespoke scheme is in line with the rest of the public sector. The reformed scheme still offers excellent benefits to its members. Notably, indeed unusually for other reformed schemes, it still includes provision for members to retire at their current retirement age. For nearly all, this will be 60.

The complicated nature of the pension schemes in the context of the statutory framework which applies to pension benefits across the NDA estate means, however, that specific legislation is needed to implement the new scheme. Amendment 227B provides the Secretary of State with the power to make secondary legislation designating a person who will be required to amend the provisions of a nuclear pension scheme.

[Lord Lennie (Lab)]

My Lords, I think we are out of order.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

For the assistance of the Committee, I point out that the numbering of the groups that we were given last night and was up to date was changed when we came to the paper that we received today, but no indication was given of that. Therefore, I believe that this is now the correct order.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

We are on the fifth group, with government Amendment 227B on pensions. I turn to Amendment 227C. The amendment that I just spoke to uses the phrase “relevant nuclear pension scheme” to describe the types of schemes that a designated person could be required to amend by virtue of that amendment. This amendment explains what is meant by that phrase. New subsections (1) and (2) provide that a relevant pension scheme is one run by, or on behalf of, the NDA under Section 8 of the Energy Act 2004, or one which provides pensions or other benefits to persons who are, or were, performing similar public functions. The new clause also clarifies that the UK Atomic Energy Authority pension schemes and pension schemes that benefit persons specified in Public Service Pension Scheme Act 2013 are not relevant pension schemes.

I turn to Amendment 227D. In order to implement the proposed pension reforms, the NDA and, in the case of the MEG-ESPS, Magnox Limited, will need information from others. Amendment 227D gives a person who has been required to amend a relevant nuclear pension scheme the power to require persons holding any information they might reasonably require to provide such information. Examples of information that they may need but which they might not otherwise be able to obtain include the number of members in a pension scheme and the salaries and ages of those members. Data protection legislation may still prevent the information from being shared; however, this amendment specifies that in making that assessment the requirement to disclose imposed by this clause must be taken into account. This amendment also provides that disclosure does not constitute a breach of confidence or a breach of any other restriction on the disclosure of information.

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[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I have a few questions and, if it is not possible to answer them all, I shall accept a written response. It would appear that the Government are bringing forward legislation that breaks promises of previous Governments, going way back, in relation to nuclear workers’ pensions. The statutory pensions protections that Parliament previously legislated for were vital to the success of privatisation. Is it right for the Government to promise those protections to ensure that success, and then to rip them up that many years after the event? We would like some clarification as to whether the Minister believes that that is the case—and, if not, why not?

Is it accurate to claim that these reforms would bring pension provision across the NDA group into line with wider public sector pensions? These pension schemes underwent much more radical reform long before my noble friend Lord Hutton’s review of public sector pensions. They have been closed to new entrants for many years. My noble friend recommended that public sector pension accrual should remain on a defined benefit basis, but pension provision across the NDA group is mostly on a defined contribution basis. I have it on good authority that there is an appetite from the trade unions to discuss these reforms with Ministers. Would the Minister be prepared to accept this course of action?

Several more questions are coming up, particularly on technical issues and questions about the proposed amendments. The amendments should allow for the implementation of the agreement between BEIS, the NDA and the recognised trade unions. There is a lot of detail about the proposed career average benefit structure in the heads of terms, but the proposed amendments are drafted in more general terms. Regulations are the proper place for the detail to be set out, but might the agreed accrual rate be an important enough term of the agreement to be in the Bill as well? The average member contribution rate of 8.2% is specified.

There are concerns about proposed new subsection 3(c) of the first proposed new clause that adds this chapter to Part 12, which provides for the increase of pensions in line with CPI, not RPI, for active and deferred pensioner members. However, it says that only increases for active and deferred members—that is, re-evaluation—cannot be capped. This opens the real possibility that the Government intend to bring forward regulations that provide for pension increases for at least some members, possibly members of the Magnox group, to be capped. This is contrary to the heads of terms, which explicitly states that pension increases will be in line with inflation as measured by CPI, with no reference to any cap. Would it be possible to propose an amendment so that we can look at ensuring that regulations cannot propose capped increases for any pensioners?

I will end by asking: how confident are the Government that they can identify people in and out of scope of future regulations, given that there is a fair degree of geographical mobility around the industry?

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I thank both noble Lords for their contributions to this important debate. I suspect that I might end up having to write to the noble Baroness, Lady Blake, with the answers to some of her questions.

I turn first to the question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on what consultation there had been with NDA employees. As I mentioned in my opening remarks, a public consultation was undertaken and published in December 2018. It ran for a number of months before that. All these changes were agreed then with the trade unions, recognising the vital work that the NDA and its workforce delivers. BEIS and the NDA worked with national trade unions in 2017 to develop an agreed pension benefit structure tailored to the characteristics of the affected NDA employees. This resulted in a proposed bespoke CARE benefit structure, which is in line with the key principles of reforms already implemented in respect of other public sector pension schemes. The bespoke CARE scheme design was formally accepted by the national trade unions following statutory consultation with affected NDA employees and a ballot of union members. There are two final salary public sector schemes within the NDA, with a total of approximately 8,000 scheme members, that are therefore within scope for reform.

As I said in my opening remarks, this is still a very good pension. It allows full pension awards at 60 for the majority of members, whereas most public sector pensions are linked to state retirement age. I am afraid there has been a delay in implementing these reforms, purely because the Energy Bill has provided the first opportunity to make the change since the agreement with the unions; previous legislative vehicles were considered but were not deemed appropriate for these clauses. I will respond to any further questions that were raised in writing. I beg to move.

Amendment 227B agreed.