Video-sharing Platforms: BBFC Ratings

Debate between Baroness Barran and Baroness Kidron

Thursday 4th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Absolutely. The Government welcome Netflix’s decision and, as I mentioned earlier, we continue to work with a number of the providers in this area.

[Baroness Kidron (CB) [V]]

I refer the House to my interests on the register. Age rating is just one of the many tools needed to build the digital world that children deserve, but it is hugely important to children and families that are looking to curate an age-appropriate experience. Is the Minister aware that Apple and Google app stores routinely advertise apps and games as suitable for four-plus and nine-plus for services whose own terms and conditions state that they are only for 16-plus or adult use? This means that a child or parent will download an app on the false understanding that it is age appropriate. Does she agree that there is little point age-rating individual pieces of content if the largest companies in the world continue to mislabel products and services on an industrial scale?

Data Protection Act 2018: Children

Debate between Baroness Barran and Baroness Kidron

Thursday 4th March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Kidron]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to their call for views and evidence for the Review of Representative Action Provisions, Section 189 Data Protection Act 2018, published on 27 August 2020, what plans they have to reflect the views of the children consulted as part of the Review in changes to the Data Protection Act 2018.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran)]

My Lords, DCMS officials consulted children directly as part of the call for views. Children who responded pointed to a lack of awareness about how to complain to the ICO or take action against a data controller when things go wrong. That is why we have committed to work with the ICO and other interested parties to raise awareness about the redress mechanisms available to all data subjects, including children. Our focus is on improving the operation of current law, rather than making legislative changes.

[Baroness Kidron (CB) [V]]

I thank the noble Baroness for her response. However, the other thing that children said in the Government’s own review was that 96% of them thought that charities should be able to represent them—and that they had a “lack of support” and

“had not heard of the ICO.”

As the noble Baroness said, they also lacked awareness of how companies such as advertisers might use their personal data—so they may not even know that they have a problem. As such, I challenge the noble Baroness to say that only a handful people can successfully understand and challenge data protection law.

The other thing is that the Government’s reasoning was that children now benefit from the protections of the age-appropriate design code, so I ask the noble Baroness, as Minister for Youth Policy and DCMS: how do the Government reconcile wilfully ignoring the views of children—in favour of the business interests of the tech sector—with their duties under Article 12 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child, which is that views must be heard in “matters affecting the child”? Are we to understand from this that—

Australia: News Media and Digital Platforms Mandatory Bargaining Code

Debate between Baroness Barran and Baroness Kidron

Thursday 25th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am very happy to take my noble friend’s suggestion back to colleagues in the department, but I know that we are in regular discussion with all the groups he mentioned.

[Baroness Kidron (CB) [V]]

I welcome the Australian Government’s action in creating a mechanism to distribute the value of news media more fairly. I hope that, when we do similarly, we will be able to ensure that it benefits the entire news ecosystem, not only parts of it. Deeply worrying was the spectre of the Australian Government revising their domestic legislation as a result of a series of phone calls with Mark Zuckerberg. Of course we need to hear the views of all stakeholders but, given that Facebook is clearly using its monopoly power and is willing to resort to bullying tactics to revise the domestic legislation of a sovereign state, does the Minister agree that, during the period in which we are working democratically on a number of regulatory fronts, including the online safety Bill, competition law and malicious communication offences, all interaction between Facebook and the Government should be on the record in committee hearings and other public arenas so that it cannot undermine the transparent, democratic legislative process that we all pride ourselves on?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government believe that social media companies must be held to account for the consistent and transparent enforcement of their terms and conditions for those using their sites. That includes online safety, to which the noble Baroness referred, but also protecting people’s freedom of speech. We are establishing a regime through the online safety Bill and the digital markets unit that will do this transparently.

Online Harms Consultation

Debate between Baroness Barran and Baroness Kidron

Wednesday 16th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for her question. We do not intend to ban anonymity online for the very group who she talks about, or for whistleblowers and others, as this would interfere with their safety, privacy and freedom of expression. Our approach is to make sure that platforms tackle abuse online, including anonymous abuse. This is a very challenging area and we are aware that many people in public life, for example, suffer extensive anonymous abuse. It is an area that we will keep under review, but without sacrificing in any way the safety of those who need anonymity to be present online.

[Baroness Kidron (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the arrival of the Government’s response is most welcome, particularly its focus on young people. However, its focus on user-generated content, company size and the large number of exceptions move it away from the earlier and more flexible focus on assessing risk and preventing harm wherever it might be found. Concerningly, it leaves the system open to being gamed as companies redesign themselves to be out of scope rather than to prevent harm. How do the Government intend to tackle problems of explicit and violent content, which is widely reported on remote learning platforms, if edtech is out of scope? How do they intend to limit access to commercial porn sites that try to avoid regulation by not having user-generated content? Can she confirm that any company that introduces strangers who are adults to children via automated friend suggestions will be brought into scope, whatever the nature or size of the service?

Digital Platforms: Impact on Democracy

Debate between Baroness Barran and Baroness Kidron

Thursday 16th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

I am happy to agree with my noble friend that we should accept the result of the recent election.

[Baroness Kidron (CB) [V]]

The United Kingdom is home to ground-breaking domestic legislation—such as the recently passed age-appropriate design code and the upcoming online harms Bill—that seeks to protect children online. However, the protections that these measures offer are at risk from an aggressive lobbying effort that is leveraging the US-UK trade negotiations and might undermine our domestic regulation. In doing so, it is undermining promises made to an electorate who have voted repeatedly for a Government who have promised to protect children online. This is in a context where today, right across the BBC, we see programming highlighting the risks to children online, including a 50% rise in child sexual abuse material during Covid. What steps is the DCMS taking to ensure that UK children are protected in the US-UK trade talks, and will the Minister be willing to liaise with the Secretary of State for Trade so that I and other concerned parliamentarians can put the case clearly for a carve-out in the trade deal to protect UK children from online harms?

[Baroness Barran]

My Lords, protecting children online is perhaps the greatest priority in our online harms legislation. Obviously, we are working very hard to understand the interaction between our trade policy and our online harms policy in future trade agreements, but we stand by our online harms commitment and nothing in the US trade deal will affect that. I am more than happy to do my best to liaise with colleagues in the Department for International Trade, as the noble Baroness suggests.

Children: Exposure to Harmful Content

Debate between Baroness Barran and Baroness Kidron

Thursday 11th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran [V]]

I agree with my noble friend that the 12 rating was extremely helpful. The whole system of protection from the British Board of Film Classification was developed over a number of years, with great care. We are actively encouraging video on demand platforms to adopt it, and we were pleased to see that Netflix has done so.

[Baroness Kidron (CB) [V]]

I declare my interests on the register. The Covid-19 pandemic has thrown into sharp relief the online risks facing children, in addition to age-inappropriate content. There is an emerging picture that includes grooming, child sexual abuse, financial scamming, threats of violence, misinformation and identity theft, at a time when children have no choice but to be online to access every part of their lives, including education and health services. Does the Minister agree that the platforms’ persistent failure to uphold their own age restrictions, which results in 43% of 11 year-olds and millions of much younger children using services while under age, puts children at considerable risk? Does she accept that if the Government had already brought forward their long overdue online harms Bill, the UK would, right now, at this time of crisis, be a much safer place to be a child online?

[Baroness Barran [V]]

The noble Baroness is right to point out both the benefits for children of being online, through education, entertainment and communication with their friends, but also the risks. We remain committed to bringing forward the online harms legislation in this Session, and I hope she will be pleased to hear that the laying of the age-appropriate design code, in which she was closely involved, is imminent.

Data Protection: Age-appropriate Design Code

Debate between Baroness Barran and Baroness Kidron

Monday 18th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

My noble friend is right. We must ensure that all the technical aspects have been addressed. Obviously, these will evolve over time so we will need to continue to stay alert to this. However, the wider aspiration of the code is essential as regards GDPR compliance. We are already talking to and working with the social media companies and others because obviously a number of aspects of this in relation to GDPR compliance are already part of our law.

[Baroness Kidron (CB)]

The Minister will be aware of a letter sent last night by children’s charities setting out the many harms that have increased during the pandemic. They are now demanding that the Government should lay the code. My understanding is that doing so would take only a handful of hours for the Civil Service and just minutes of parliamentary time. Given that, can the Minister explain what is in the way of doing so now, apart from political will? Further, does she agree that this is an important test of the Government’s commitment to tackling online harms? If they fail to act, they will bear considerable responsibility for harms that might have been prevented.

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness will be aware from the evidence given by my honourable friend the Minister for Digital and Culture that we absolutely see this issue as an urgent one but that we are unable to give a timescale at the moment. That is not due to a lack of will but simply that part of this is out of our hands. It is being actively pursued in discussions with the House authorities and will be dealt with as soon as possible.

Social Media: Fake News

Debate between Baroness Barran and Baroness Kidron

Wednesday 29th April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness is right that we set up the counter-disinformation unit at the beginning of March, bringing in expertise from across Whitehall. When asked a similar question the other day, my right honourable friend the Secretary of the State assured colleagues that, when time allows, there will be a Written Ministerial Statement to reflect on a number of issues, including this one. However, our real focus at the moment is to act as expeditiously as possible when any misinformation or disinformation content gains traction.

[Baroness Kidron (CB)]

My Lords, I refer the House to my interests in the register. Children and young people are the demographic most likely to access their news online and least likely to have the funds to get behind a paywall, and they have little life experience from which to identify misinformation. A recent Pew report shows that those who believe in conspiracy theories are the least likely to observe social distancing rules. At a time when children are entirely dependent on online communication—we have increasing evidence that they are experiencing a range of harms, including misinformation—what justification do the Government have for the recent reports of a delay to the long-promised online harms Bill? In answering, can the Minister say when we can expect this Bill in the House?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Baroness is right to raise the issues of risks posed to children and young people online. My honourable friend the Minister for Digital and Culture recently met a number of child safety organisations in this regard. We are continuing work in partnership with the Home Office to agree our final position on the regulatory framework as quickly as possible. Obviously, a media literacy strategy will form part of that.

Covid-19: Music Sector and Creative Economy

Debate between Baroness Barran and Baroness Kidron

Thursday 23rd April 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

I thank my noble friend and agree on the critical part that this sector has played in the growth of the economy and the creation of high-quality jobs. As I said in response to an earlier question, our advice will be based on the science and the five tests that were highlighted earlier this week. I cannot add to that at this stage.

[Baroness Kidron (CB)]

My Lords, the power of the creative industries is often expressed in its ability to generate £100 billion to the economy, but perhaps more important is its contribution to the national psyche. Since lockdown, one of the few bright spots in this difficult time has been to witness the irrepressible creativity and joy that results from the rise of book and film clubs, galleries and theatre online, ballet from the kitchen and rock legends performing in their bedrooms. Does the Minister recognise the need for a specific financial support package that does not look only to the immediate needs but rather recognises the atypical workforce and the length of time it takes to get an idea from page to public?