Wales: Coal Tip Safety

Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent Excerpts

Wednesday 20th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what recent meetings they have had with Welsh Government Ministers regarding coal tip safety.

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

The Secretary of State for Wales has regular discussions with the First Minister of Wales on a range of topics, including matters related to coal tip safety. The Government are committed to resetting the relationship with the Welsh Government, based on trust and mutual respect. That was evident in the Budget last month, where we allocated £25 million to the Welsh Government for essential work to keep disused coal tips maintained and safe.

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)]

I thank the Minister for her Answer. Coal tips are a legacy in Wales of our mining past, and that pre-dates devolution. There are more than 2,500 disused coal tips in Wales, and 10% of those pose a risk to communities and infrastructure. Your Lordships will remember the Aberfan disaster, a tragedy that was caused by ignored warnings about safety, neglect, and a lack of investment. For those living literally in the shadow of coal tips, we must not let history repeat itself. The announced £25 million that the Minister just noted is far short of the £600 million required to make those sites safe. Would I be correct in saying that the funding covers only the inspection and initial maintenance? If so, do His Majesty’s Government accept their moral and financial responsibility to fully fund the necessary remediation?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question, but I will have to disagree with some of it. The reality is that the £25 million announced in last month’s Budget is a demonstration of a Welsh Labour Government working hand in hand with a Westminster Labour Government. It is in addition to the £44.4 million that the Welsh Government have spent on coal tip safety, which is what this is about, over the last three years. The £600 million that has been referred to relates to the remediation and regeneration of the sites. That is a different conversation, separate to the ongoing maintenance of coal tip safety, and those conversations are ongoing with the Welsh Government.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, since the tragedy of Aberfan in 1966, one of the great successes in Wales has been the greening, removing and making safe of those coal tips. Apart from the very helpful amount in the Budget, have the Government been able to offer anything else to allay the concerns of the Welsh Government?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend. This £25 million, for which the Welsh Government asked for years but did not receive from the last Government, is a demonstration of us working to support the Welsh Government and the people of Wales. The £25 million is about the safety and security of the tips and ongoing maintenance. We will continue to work with the Welsh Government to ensure that the regeneration of these sites remains an ongoing discussion and delivery for the Welsh Government and for the Labour Government in this country.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, in memory of Mansel Aylward, who, as a medical student, was the person who crawled into the school only to discover that the children were all dead, as was the teacher, what research is being undertaken now to look at more effective ways of monitoring the coal tips? With the change in climate, we have ever-increasing rainstorms and the water flow, which was partly responsible, is creating a greater, not lesser, danger in those valleys, where the memory of what happened in Aberfan remains as sharp today as it ever was.

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I am the granddaughter of a miner and appreciate everything that the noble Baroness just said, especially about the impact of Aberfan, which we remember every year on the anniversary. Our hearts and prayers go out to the families and we can only imagine their ongoing grief. I reassure your Lordships’ House that the coal tips are currently safe—this work is to ensure their ongoing safety and maintenance. New technologies will be at the forefront of this, and I was delighted to see reports only this week that new satellite technology is now being used to analyse the coal tips to make sure that we are securing all those that we believe to be currently safe and those where we are most concerned.

[Lord Boateng (Lab)]

Would the Minister be good enough to take the time to commend the work of the Aberfan Memorial Charity? Its members have found the time, amid all they have to do to commemorate that terrible event, to work with the Grenfell Tower community and the Grenfell Tower Memorial Commission, which I have the honour of co-chairing, so that we can support each other at a time when, all too often, people feel neglected and forgotten.

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

I put on record our thanks to the noble Lord for the work he has done with the Grenfell survivors and their families. There is nothing more painful than tragedy in the form of Grenfell or Aberfan. In terms of moving on and dealing with that level of grief, supporting each other and others gives a vehicle and a voice. I am —I would not say delighted—proud to be able to put on record our thanks to both the Aberfan community and the Grenfell survivors’ groups which are continuing to ensure that this never happens again.

[Lord Brownlow of Shurlock Row (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise to your Lordships but this is a subject new to me so perhaps the Minister could help me. The £600 million she refers to is for regeneration and the £25 million and the £44 million from the Welsh Senedd is for ongoing safety and maintenance. What is the actual figure to ensure the safety of the pits referenced in this Question so that we do not have a repeat of disasters past?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

I apologise for the confusion. The funding commitments are £44.5 million in the last three years from the Welsh Government and £25 million now from the British Government. The £500 million to £600 million the noble Baroness referred to is an aspirational number for future investment in remedial and regeneration works. It does not exist.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, if it transpires that, after the expenditure of the £25 million, and possibly £40 million, which the Minister said the Welsh Government were putting into the pot, a need is identified for substantially more urgent expenditure to guarantee safety, will more money be forthcoming?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

This is not a one-off conversation. We have regular conversations with the Welsh Government related to coal tip safety. This is an ongoing debate, and we have given this money because it is a national safety issue. We will continue to work with the Welsh Government to ensure that people in Wales are safe.

[Baroness Bloomfield of Hinton Waldrist (Con)]

I too remember the Aberfan disaster, and my own childhood worries that the completely blameless hill behind my Welsh primary school might collapse on to my school one day, so I welcome the way in which the Government have listened to campaigners on coal tip safety, and the measures in the Budget—building, as they did, on our work as part of the joint task force. It is a good start. May I ask for the indulgence of the Minister, in the spirit of listening to campaigners for measures to increase investment in Wales: will she commit to helping to find new funding from the UK Government to make the M4 corridor around Newport a reality?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question—I think. Obviously, I do not have a response to that, but I will speak to Transport Ministers and come back to her.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I understand that our Labour Government have given a boost to the Mineworkers’ Pension Scheme, but I do not seem to have read much about it in the newspapers. I wonder whether the Minister could give us more details.

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

As someone who campaigned on this issue in the other place, I was delighted that in the first Labour Budget for 15 years we announced that the Mineworkers’ Pension Scheme will receive an uplift of 32% for pensioners—an average of £29 per week, or £1,506 per year—which was funded from the scheme, but the previous Government refused to allow the trustees to move forward in that way. It is a welcome move for many thousands of people up and down the country.

[Baroness Gale (Lab)]

Will the Minister join me in congratulating the Chancellor on giving the £25 million, just for next year? I believe that is the first tranche, and that there will be more to come. I am so pleased that this Government have recognised the need to provide the money so that we can have safe coal tips, certainly where I live. I am from the Rhondda Valley, surrounded by coal tips, and there is still a danger, as we saw only a few years ago in Tylorstown, when the coal tip slipped. Thankfully, no one was harmed. I am so pleased that the Chancellor has agreed to pay the money, knowing that the Welsh Government on their own cannot deliver the funding for that need. Will the Minister confirm that this will be continuous now—it is not just for next year but for years to come?

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

I agree with my noble friend. This is a matter of keeping people safe. We have touched on Aberfan, and the impact that had on communities and on many people around your Lordships’ House. The subject of future funding will be raised in the spending review, and I look forward to those discussions with my noble friends in the Treasury.