Scotland Bill

Antoinette Sandbach Excerpts

Monday 15th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[The Temporary Chair (Sir David Amess)]

Order. I listened carefully to what the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) said, and it was a point of argument, not a point of order.

[Antoinette Sandbach (Eddisbury) (Con)]

The hon. Member for Nottingham North (Mr Allen) seems to be advocating a written constitution, but the problem with that, as we have seen clearly with the Government of Wales Act 2006, is that it invites judge-made law. Recent Supreme Court decisions on the 2006 Act have led, in effect, to judicial decision making on a reserved powers model, which is not contained in the Act.

[Mr Allen]

I am sure that I would be called to order if I went into too much detail on the pros and cons of a written constitution. Suffice it to say that reams and reams of judge-made law exist, but our citizens are not allowed to see the basis on which that framework is put into place.

Scotland Bill

Antoinette Sandbach Excerpts

Monday 8th June 2015 Commons Chamber

[Antoinette Sandbach (Eddisbury) (Con)]

It is an honour to follow the maiden speech from the hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier), who spoke powerfully on behalf of her constituents. It is a great privilege for me, too, to address this House on behalf of my constituents in Eddisbury. I arrived ready to be a serious politician, but almost immediately, the first thing that happened to me was being selected for the ladies’ tug-of-war team! I hope this parliamentary debut will not lead to my being flat on my backside.

I am acutely conscious that Eddisbury has been represented by a number of illustrious Members of Parliament, the most recent of whom was Stephen O’Brien, who served the constituency with distinction and dedication for the last 16 years. His commitment to his constituents has been accompanied by his achievements in office as a Minister for International Development between 2010 and 2012, as well being the Prime Minister’s envoy for the Sahel. Stephen will bring substantial experience to his new role in the United Nations as Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs. That experience will prove invaluable in the light of the challenges of the humanitarian crises that beset Syria and Nepal and the consequences of the conflict with ISIL. Members from all sides will want to wish him well.

The difficulties of others suffering the consequences of humanitarian disaster can sometimes feel a long way away from the delights of the Eddisbury constituency in south-west Cheshire. Beautiful canals that criss-cross the landscape in Wrenbury can be enjoyed on narrow boats that can be hired for relaxing holidays.

The Cheshire plains form the bedrock of the dairy industry in the constituency, whose importance is recorded as far back as 1125 by William of Malmesbury. Concerns about the milk price do not quite go back that far, but the fact that it is cheaper to buy a litre of milk than a litre of water was as true 15 years ago as it is today, and it is something on which we need to take action if we want to ensure that British family farms survive. Farm diversification is strong in Eddisbury, and that can be seen with the milk being turned into one of the oldest of English cheeses—Cheshire cheese.

Scottish Members will be interested to know of the link to St Boniface, who founded over 150 churches in Scotland in the seventh century. We have the church of St Boniface in Bunbury. In the 18th century, the Reverend Butler recorded:

“St. Boniface, by preaching the word of God, reformed the manners of the people in the provinces of Angus, Marris, Buchan, Elgin, Murray, and Ross”.

Witnessing “Seatgate” in this House over the last few weeks, I am not certain that the reformation of manners he described was a lasting one.

Eddisbury is also home to the oldest church in Cheshire, which was built in 1190 in Shocklach. If quiet contemplation is not one’s style and people prefer big engines and racing, they should come to the Cholmondeley “pageant of power”, which is on this weekend, or watch the racing at Oulton. Bolesworth park provides top-quality international eventing for those with a love of horses—and all these can be enjoyed over the next few weeks.

The real strength of my constituency, however, is the people who live within it, and their generosity of spirit can be seen in Winsford. St Luke’s hospice, one with a history of being small, punches above its weight in terms of innovation and working with others. The Wingate centre provides life-enriching experiences to children with disabilities and provides respite care for those who need it. Then there is the neuro-muscular centre that provides unique help for those with muscular dystrophy—not just for people from my constituency, but for many others, too.

I got involved in politics as a single parent, having struggled to access childcare in the rural area in which I lived. Single parents come in all shapes and sizes, as can be seen. Many have jobs, and childcare is crucial to allow parents to make the most of themselves and their children. The Family and Childcare Trust has pointed out the particular lack of provision in rural areas. This Government’s commitment to 30 hours of free childcare provides an opportunity for local councils to ensure appropriate provision during the school holidays and wrap-around care, which is vital for working parents and single parents in particular. Improvement of provision is crucial if we are to make the most of talented women and men who want to work, but often face barriers because of the high cost of childcare.

In the numerous villages scattered throughout the constituency, small local businesses typify the determination of those who are employers, employees and business owners—whether they be a high street shop, a local farm or a business located on one of our many industrial sites. Hard work is clearly evident in Eddisbury, and there is a quiet but steely determination for people to “get on”, to strive and to achieve. That can be seen in the streets of Alpraham, Kelsall, Farndon, Malpas, Tarvin, Tarporley and Tattenhall.

My constituents voted Conservative so that they could build on those hopes for themselves and their families in Cheshire. Aspiration and achievement are admired, yet my constituents watch as policies that could help them are placed under threat by MPs from nations that make their own decisions on childcare, health services and education. That cannot be right, so the West Lothian question needs to be addressed to ensure English votes for English laws.

It is important that we recognise the strong links we have in our area. Speaking as someone who has both English and Welsh roots, I have been accused of being too English in Wales, and too Welsh in England. I make no apology for being British, and we should perhaps reflect that what unites us is stronger than what divides us. Having experienced devolution at first hand, it is clear that if decision making is taken closer to those affected by it, people will benefit. That is the benefit of the northern powerhouse to my constituents. This is the principle that we should perhaps bear in mind when considering the impact of the European Union referendum. It seems a contradiction that the SNP seeks independence, yet is apparently happy to cede sovereignty to Europe.

I will be a strong voice for my constituency in Westminster, and look forward to speaking up for my constituents in the years to come.

--- Later in debate ---

[Emily Thornberry]

I simply think the Secretary of State for Scotland should not introduce legislation that says that we

“will not normally legislate with regard to devolved matters without the consent of the Scottish Parliament”,

because in my view that is not the sort of thing we normally put in legislation. The Bill has been rushed through at the last minute and has not been thought through properly. I strongly suggest that the Secretary of State pays attention to people who are better experts than he is, and makes sure his legislation is a little better than it is.

The Constitution Committee’s report went on to note that this measure, as drafted, would have

“little, or no, legal effect”.

[Interruption.] I am sorry to interrupt the Secretary of State once more. The Committee says this clause would have little or no legal effect, and I suggest he pays attention to that. It says that the clause would simply

“recognise the existence of the Sewel convention rather than turn it into a legally binding principle”.

In other words, it is a gesture and it does not actually mean anything. I strongly suggest the Secretary of State considers providing some clarity on that point. What do the words of the statute mean? What does he intend? Tell us what “normal” means, and what “abnormal” means, so we all know what we are talking about.

That point is as nothing compared with the nonsense and mess that the Bill will cause in relation to the Human Rights Act. The Government may or may not be changing the Human Rights Act in some way in the future after consulting people—who, we do not yet know. We do not know how it will be changed, but it appears that the Government do intend to change it. As the Secretary of State knows, an integral part of the devolution settlement is that Scotland has a role in the Human Rights Act, and that remains important. If the Government are to honour the spirit of the Sewel convention, they will need to seek the consent of the Scottish Parliament before proceeding on any wholesale reorganisation of the legislative framework upon which our basic human rights rest. The Government need to look at that.

The convention will be pushed to its limit whether it has a basis in statute or not. The Human Rights Act is embedded in Scotland’s devolution settlement, and while it remains for the UK courts to determine whether an Act of Parliament violates an individual’s convention rights, both schedule 6 and section 29(2)(d) of the Scotland Act 1998 gave the same power to the Scottish courts to invalidate Acts of the Scottish Parliament if they are judged to be incompatible with the UK’s obligations under the convention. The same prohibition on acting incompatibly with individuals’ convention rights is extended to Ministers in the Scottish Executive under section 57(2) of the 1998 Act. Since the passage of that Act, the Scottish Parliament has established a Scottish Human Rights Commission and a national plan for human rights, so human rights are without doubt a substantially devolved issue. What is more, the Scots were not exactly backwards in coming forwards on the need to preserve the Human Rights Act.

The Minister might remember that the Government spent the previous two years consulting on how to replace the Human Rights Act with their so-called British bill of privileges; they went around the country asking people their views, for suggestions, whether any rights had been forgotten and whether people would like to change this bit or that bit. The Minister might also remember the consultation’s reception in Scotland. When the Government asked Scottish people their views, how many were in favour of changing the Human Rights Act? None. The Government did not get a single person in Scotland to say that it was a good idea to change the Human Rights Act, so exactly how will they be able to implement the Sewel convention and somehow or other change the Human Rights Act in Scotland? How will that work? It is constitutional nonsense, and the Government should take it extremely seriously.

Following the election, the Scottish Human Rights Commission said:

“While we will examine any legislative proposals in detail, the Commission repeats its long-standing concerns about the regressive nature of many elements of previous proposals for a British Bill of Rights. These have included enabling the UK to pick and choose which judgments to accept from the European Court of Human Rights, reducing the scope of human rights laws so that they only apply to ‘the most serious’ cases, or to particular areas of law, and restricting the eligibility of rights on the basis of nationality or citizenship. Any and all of these changes would fly in the face of progressive protection for human rights and would have adverse consequences for people in Scotland”.

That is absolutely right. It is quite clear that the people of Scotland do not want the Government to interfere with their Human Rights Act, and the Government should leave it alone. Frankly, they should leave it alone for all of us.

The Government should not seek to change the Human Rights Act without first seeking the consent of the Scottish Parliament. It is clear that if the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice, the right hon. Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove), went up to Scotland and asked people there whether the Government could change the Human Rights Act, they would probably tell him to sling his hook—or possibly something a little ruder.

Will the Minister assure the House that the Government’s intention is to honour the Sewel convention on a matter of such importance as fundamental human rights?

[Antoinette Sandbach]

Does the hon. Lady accept that being a signatory to the European convention on human rights is different from the Human Rights Act? We are at liberty, in Parliament, to change the Human Rights Act while still remaining a signatory to the treaty.

[Emily Thornberry]

I have only two minutes and 46 seconds left, but I am happy to talk to the hon. Lady outside the Chamber. I would say that the Government should keep away from this—it is a devolved issue. They may think that they can implement the Sewel convention properly and still change the Human Rights Act in relation to Scotland, but it cannot be done.

Will the Minister give us a clearer outline of the Government’s definition of “normal”? Will he help us by telling us whether or not, in order to stay true to the spirit of the Smith commission’s recommendations, the Sewel convention can be placed on a much stronger statutory footing than today’s Bill achieves? As it stands, nothing in the Bill prevents this or any future Government from riding roughshod over the clearly expressed views of the Scottish Parliament and the people it represents. The first victim of such woolly legislation could well be the Human Rights Act in Scotland. Just as we will fight in England, we will fight in Scotland to make sure that we keep our Human Rights Act intact.