Chilcot Inquiry and Parliamentary Accountability

Debate between Angela Smith and Phil Wilson

Wednesday 30th November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Witney (Robert Courts) on his maiden speech. I know how difficult it is to make a maiden speech when your predecessor was Prime Minister, and the hon. Gentleman did an excellent job.

I want to make a couple of points about why the motion is about more than just Chilcot, and about how divisive it actually is. My predecessor was Member of Parliament for Sedgefield for a quarter of a century. For 13 of those years he was the leader of the Labour party, and for 10 he was Prime Minister. I have known Tony Blair for more than 30 years, probably longer than anyone else who is in the House today, and I am proud to say that he is a friend of mine. When I am called a Blairite, which is sometimes seen as a term of abuse, I wear that term proudly as an accolade.

I met Tony Blair in 1983, when he first became the Labour candidate for Sedgefield, in the community bar in Trimdon village. He believed then, as he does today, that the Labour party had a great ability to do good, but his opponents are angry about what he achieved. What he did achieve were great things, from the minimum wage to devolution in Scotland and the creation of the Scottish Parliament, which I would like to say the SNP used a bit more than it does at present. We also became, under Tony Blair, the party that was patriotic. It became “cool” to be British under his leadership and premiership. There is a reason why Conservative Members, in particular, do not want to see another Tony Blair. Given that he kept the Tory party out of power for the longest period since 1762, I understand their disquiet about those years.

Our opponents want to put as much distance between Tony Blair and the Labour party of today as they possibly can. My message to my colleagues today is, “Do not fall into that trap”, and I am pleased to note that Labour Members will oppose the motion. There is another reason why it is wrong. It is not about the rights and wrongs of the war in Iraq; it is essentially about calling Tony Blair a liar, and continuing to do so. That is mendacious, and it is an attempt to second-guess Sir John Chilcot, who said:

“I absolve him from a personal and demonstrable decision to deceive parliament or the public—to state falsehoods, knowing them to be false.”

The SNP motion is part of a strategy to divide the Labour Benches. It is party political, divisive and cynical.

[Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent argument exposing the mendacity of the SNP’s motion. Does he agree that the legacy of our former Prime Minister involves a commitment, ongoing to this day, to peace in the middle east, making him a figure that Labour Members should be proud of?

[Phil Wilson]

We should be proud of Tony Blair. We know about the efforts he is putting into the middle east and interfaith dialogue around the world. He spends most of his time with his charities trying to achieve those aims.

Some people want to define themselves against Tony Blair and the 1997 to 2010 Labour Governments. To them I say, “Be careful, because it is not useful or a good idea to define yourself against success.” Like all Governments, Labour did things that generated criticism, disagreement, frustration and anger, none more than on Iraq. I sincerely accept that people outside and Members of this House have strongly held views on the rights and wrongs of the Iraq war, but let us disengage from this witch hunt pursuing a line of criticism abandoned by the Chilcot inquiry. Tony Blair did not lie.

My message to the SNP is this: “Use your Opposition days to talk about the issues that affect Scotland. You use such debates to deflect from your own weaknesses. You have no vision; your policy platform is absent. Labour gave you a Scottish Parliament. Use it. Look to yourselves before you start criticising others.”

Transport and the Economy

Debate between Angela Smith and Phil Wilson

Tuesday 28th February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Phil Wilson]

There may have been a lack of regulation, but we had a level of subsidy that had not been cut to the extent that it has been since, and some subsidies that were made available have been paid back to the Treasury.

[Angela Smith]

Does my hon. Friend recognise that the Local Transport Act 2008 brought back a level of regulation, but it was opposed by the Conservative party with which the hon. Member for Manchester, Withington (Mr Leech) is in coalition?

[Phil Wilson]

We can see from the lack of people on the Liberal Democrat Benches that this issue is not of particular importance to them. Whatever they said before the election, they are saying exactly the opposite today.

I have a constituent called Mrs Hardy who lives in Bishop Middleham. She has asthma and a heart complaint and has worked at the same place for 34 years. Now she cannot get a direct route to work and arrives an hour late, and the return journey that she has to make does not take her back to her own home. She is quoted in The Northern Echo as saying:

“I am now in the stressful situation of having to beg lifts from friends, colleagues and family and don’t know how I am going to get to work from one day to the next.”

Her story is not unique. However, with the help of Durham county council, I have been able to get Arriva to put on a couple of buses on workday mornings so that people like Mrs Hardy can get to work. That new regime starts on 19 March. Likewise, by applying pressure on Arriva, we have been able to redirect buses around Fishburn. However, that only partly solves the problem and is not the whole answer. There must be many more employees in my constituency who find themselves in such a position.

I have raised this issue with the Department for Work and Pensions. If somebody resigns from their job voluntarily because they can no longer get to work, they can no longer claim benefit because they are deemed to have resigned. The Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling) responded:

“The Jobseekers Act (1995) provides that JSA will not be paid for a period between 1 week and 26 weeks to anyone who has lost their employment as an employed earner by leaving voluntarily without just cause.

The law does not provide guidance on how just cause should be interpreted because the circumstances in which employees leave employment are so varied.”

The Government need to do a bit of joined-up thinking on this issue because it affects many people in rural areas around the country, who we are perhaps not finding out about. This situation needs urgent attention. The Department for Transport needs to liaise with the DWP to find out the extent of the problem in rural areas. The problems with the buses in my constituency came to a head in the new year.

Last week, we found out from the Transport Committee report on the expenditure of the Department for Transport that the money was there to maintain the subsidy, but it was handed back to the Treasury. To use the Select Committee’s word, how “slack” is that? The Select Committee was surely correct to state in paragraph 11:

“Money voted by Parliament for expenditure on transport should be spent on transport, not handed back to the Treasury.”

My question to the Minister is whether, because the money has been there in the past, it will be there in the future. Will his Department push for extra funding for subsidies so that additional bus services can be provided in areas such as County Durham? There is a lot of talk about the need for growth in the economy. I respectfully suggest to the Government that it is a fundamental prerequisite of any economic growth strategy that employees are able to get to work.

The lack of understanding in this area does not promise much for the future. There seems to have been a fundamental failure in basic arithmetic. The Department has imposed deep cuts to bus grants, leading to the axing of dozens, if not hundreds, of bus routes and to steep fare hikes, only to end up with £543 million to spare. As a consequence, Durham county council and other local authorities are getting the flak for the cut in bus subsidy and the resulting cuts in bus services. My constituents have great difficulties in getting to work, to the hospital, to college or to see friends. The Department for Transport lost £543 million down the back of the sofa, just to find it and hand it back to the Treasury. Will the Minister therefore apologise to Mrs Hardy and the many others who are having difficulty catching a bus today because of his Department’s carelessness?

The letter from the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the right hon. Member for Epsom and Ewell also states:

“The matter of poor public transport in Sedgefield and County Durham”—

at least the DWP acknowledges that transport in Sedgefield and County Durham is poor—

“is a matter for the Department for Transport. I have forwarded a copy of your letter to that Department so that Ministerial colleagues are aware of your constituents’ concerns.”

Will the Minister tell me what his Department and the DWP are doing to alleviate the situation of poor public transport in places such as Sedgefield and County Durham? Is there any joined-up thinking in Government to alleviate this problem? Finally, what plans does the Department have to re-regulate or regulate more thoroughly bus services in rural areas around the UK so that people who have jobs can get to them?

--- Later in debate ---

[Angela Smith]

I wholly concur. In fact, if we are to maximise the agglomeration benefits of HS2, I would argue that the economies—from the far north to London and the south—that are linked by the HS2 line must have clear strategies in place for economic development in order that the transport investment represented by high-speed rail can perform to its full potential.

[Phil Wilson]

It is obviously vital that the HS2 route eventually reaches the north-east of England. I do not know whether my hon. Friend is aware of it, but Hitachi is building a train-building facility in Newton Aycliffe in my constituency. It has already said that if this project goes ahead, it will be bidding for the rolling stock.

[Angela Smith]

That illustrates my point about the need to have clear plans for economic development in place alongside plans for transport investment.

The report is also important because it points out very clearly that there is a lack of transparency and consistency in the decision-making process at the Department for Transport. Finally, it is important because it points out that the removal of regional structures created by the last Government risks creating a vacuum in effective planning for transport infrastructure.

I want to focus particularly on the report’s recognition that the Government should produce a White Paper explaining explicitly how their plans for transport investment will be linked to their plans for the economy more generally, and in particular explaining their plans for rebalancing the UK economy. Rebalancing is important not just to the economic development of areas such as the north-west and Yorkshire but to the whole country, including London and the greater south-east.

We need transport investment to maximise the potential for a more dynamic set of relationships between economies across the country. HS2 is a case in point. According to The Northern Way, its potential impact of £13 billion would deliver at least £3 billion of economic impact to the north. The point is, however, that its economic impact will affect the whole country, and therefore potentially benefits everyone.

What do we need if we are to rebalance the economy in transport terms? I believe that we need three things. First, we need more transparency and greater consistency in decision making, so that we can hold the Government to account in relation to their stated aim of rebalancing the economy. Secondly, we need political bravery: we need to use investment to maximise economic development in areas such as the north of England, and to remove barriers to growth in those areas. Thirdly, we urgently need to know more about how the Government will develop sub-regional, regional and even cross-regional structures enabling them to produce sound, well-thought-out strategies for the delivery of transport infrastructure.

The removal of the regional development agencies and, by definition, The Northern Way group of RDAs, has left a vacuum in regional planning, especially—as the report points out—in the context of their role in supporting regional economies. Moreover, the local enterprise partnerships have not been thought through. How will these new structures working at sub-regional and city-regional level work structurally across LEP boundaries to deliver what our regions need?

The north of England is a perfect example. As a result of The Northern Way and its superb work in developing arguments and strategies relating to transport, the case for the northern hub has been clearly made and accepted even by the coalition Government. The northern hub is needed, of course, to tackle congestion on the northern rail network, thereby helping to remove barriers to economic growth; but it is also needed in the context of the decision to go ahead with HS2. It is important that we deliver both projects in order not just to reduce congestion on the network but, as I mentioned earlier, to maximise the potential benefit of HS2.

If we are to maximise the potential of HS2 to make the relationship between the economies of the north and London more dynamic, we must also ensure that those agglomeration benefits are spread across the north. If that is to happen, the Government must recognise the importance of transport infrastructure in supporting economic development plans. In particular, they must recognise our great northern cities as hubs for economic development. They must recognise the importance of greater connectivity—not only with London, on a north-south axis, but on an east-west axis, between the northern urban centres, and with international gateways not just at Heathrow and Gatwick but at the mouth of the Humber and Mersey rivers.

We need regional planning. As the report says, without it there will be a risk that choices will be made on a basis that discriminates against weaker economies. There is already an example of that in the form of the Government’s decision to electrify the Leeds-to-Manchester cross-Pennine route, which discriminates against what I call the third point of the golden triangle of the north: the city of Sheffield.

We need the Govt to recognise the broader context of an economic policy that involves stimulation of the economy and the role that transport could play in it. Long-term infrastructure projects should be brought forward, as outlined in Labour's alternative plan for jobs and growth, but instead we are seeing significant cuts in investment, such as the £759 million cut on top of the £528 million efficiency savings supported by Labour.

We also need the Government to recognise the spending disparity between the north and the south. The Passenger Transport Executive Group has produced some interesting figures. In 2010-11, transport spending per head was £774 in London and £276 in Yorkshire and the Humber. The source of those figures is the most recent version of a public expenditure spending analysis from Her Majesty’s Treasury. I ask the Minister to respond to them, and to demonstrate by way of a full written explanation—

The Economy

Debate between Angela Smith and Phil Wilson

Tuesday 6th December 2011 Commons Chamber

[Phil Wilson]

That is absolutely right. If a regional pay structure went ahead, in whatever variety it may take, it would just exacerbate that situation. The regions would become silos, and people would not be able to move around the country.

It is also a myth that there are major variations in the cost of living around the country. The reason why the variation is less explicit outside London is because major retailers have national pricing policies, and internet shopping is having a similar effect in ensuring that the cost of living is more convergent around the UK than it would otherwise seem to be. In addition, major private sector companies—BT, British Gas, Waterstone’s, First Great Western and Santander, to name but a few—have national pay structures, although they have, for example, allowances for workers in London. When the previous Government examined this issue they came out against regional pay bargaining for the following reasons, which were quoted in a Treasury guidance note in 2003. It said:

“At the extreme, local pay in theory could mean devolved pay…to local bodies. In practice, extremely devolved arrangements are not desirable. There are risks of workers being treated differently for no good reason. There could be dangers of leapfrogging and parts of the public sector competing against each other for the best staff.”

That illustrates the point that has just been made by my hon. Friend the Member for Darlington (Mrs Chapman).

The wage disparities do not arise from an overactive public sector displacing private sector jobs; that cannot be so, given that 700,000 public sector jobs are to be lost in the coming years. I want to see a vibrant private sector, with skilled jobs that are well paid and full time, but to achieve that we need growth.

[Angela Smith]

Does my hon. Friend believe for a minute that the Government have thought through the complexities of moving to local pay scales, given that it will inevitably involve consultants in establishing exactly where on the new pay scales the public sector employees will belong?

[Phil Wilson]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. I do not think the Government have thought all these things through; I know they will be looking at them in more detail, but the process seems ideologically led.

One North East was a dynamo for private sector job creation in the north-east. To abolish it was the wrong decision. We need the expertise of the public sector to generate private sector jobs in the area. That is how Hitachi Rail was attracted to Newton Aycliffe in my constituency, creating hundreds of direct private sector jobs and thousands in the supply chain. Hitachi did not come to the north-east because of the public sector, but it did have the help of the public sector. I want more Hitachis coming to the north-east, bringing highly skilled jobs that will deliver good wages. That is how we shall redress wage disparities in the north-east; not by suppressing the wages of a section of the community but by raising the wages of all employees, through investment, training and skills. With that will come good wages, and I call on the Government to promote a living wage, not a regional wage, for the north-east and the rest of the UK.

There is no evidence that regional pay will rebalance the economy. Driving down wages will only exacerbate economic disparities, not resolve them. Driving down relative wage costs and taking money out of the economy is as bad for the private sector in areas such as the north-east as it is for the public sector. That is why I make a special plea, not for the public sector but for all employees in the north-east of England, whatever they do and wherever they work.

Public sector employees face a two-year pay freeze and then two years with only a 1% increase. It has been estimated that between 2010 and 2015 public sector workers will see their incomes decrease by 14%. Average pay in the north-east is just over £19,000. How low do the Government want it to be? The policy is wrong, and I believe it is ideologically led. The answer is a living wage, not a regional wage.

Regional Growth Fund

Debate between Angela Smith and Phil Wilson

Tuesday 1st November 2011 Westminster Hall

[Angela Smith]

I think the hon. Gentleman overlooks the fact that the Labour Government were prepared to show what is called industrial activism. They worked hard for a long period to ensure that due diligence was in place, and that we invested in key sectors of our manufacturing economy. The hon. Gentleman’s comment is a bit rich, given that the production industries have gone into negative growth in the last quarter. Mining and quarrying took the productive part of the economy into negative growth in the last quarter, so I do not think that we need any comments from Government Members on manufacturing and support for manufacturing.

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

I do not know whether my hon. Friend is aware of this, but the regional growth fund for north-east England will create some 8,500 jobs over three years. That is equivalent to the number of jobs lost in the north-east in the past three months.

[Angela Smith]

That is precisely the point. That underlines the fact that the Government are cutting too far and too fast. Their policies risk producing a double-dip recession.