Rail Franchising

Debate between Andy McDonald and Anna Soubry

Wednesday 10th January 2018 Commons Chamber

[Andy McDonald]

I like to think that the hon. Gentleman and I can disagree with one another without being disagreeable. He has a good memory and is going back rather a long way. The Conservative party has been in power since 2010—eight years—and we are concerned today with the record of the current Government. We are not going back through all our yesterdays.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

The hon. Gentleman is two years younger than I am, so he will well remember the state in which the railways used to be. Does he not agree that we have seen a terrific improvement in the quality of the trains, the service and the attitude of the staff? An excellent service has been developing; would he agree that that is because of privatisation? Would he further agree that investment in our railways is at a record high?

[Andy McDonald]

I regret that many passengers’ experiences do not match the right hon. Lady’s experience. The evidence is that people are dissatisfied with the services they receive throughout the country. I respectfully suggest to her that going back over things in the way she is doing is not helpful. Had British Rail received public investment at the rate at which the Treasury has poured investment into the private operators, we would have had a gold-standard railway in this country.

[Anna Soubry]

rose—

[Andy McDonald]

I really want to make progress because a lot of people want to speak.

All the factors I have described undermine the growth forecasts that are so central to the Government’s model and the undeliverable bid assumptions of operators. FirstGroup won the TPE—TransPennine Express—franchise in December 2015 based on revenues increasing by 12% a year. In one of his first acts in office, the Secretary of State awarded the Greater Anglia franchise to the Dutch state-owned rail company Abellio in August 2016. The deal commits the company to paying the Government £3.7 billion to run the line for nine years. That is more than the east coast franchise. Reports suggest that Abellio’s bid was £600 million more than the next bidder. Like the TPE and east coast bids, Abellio’s bid was based on double-digit annual revenue growth. The company’s boss described the £3.7 billion price tag as “scary”. Does the Secretary of State guarantee that the Treasury will receive the full premium payment of £3.7 billion from Abellio Greater Anglia by 2025—yes or no?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Andy McDonald and Anna Soubry

Tuesday 15th December 2015 Commons Chamber

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

T9. I previously raised with the Secretary of State the Teesside Collective’s industrial carbon capture and storage ambitions, which will not only contribute massively to the climate change agenda, but secure existing industries and attract investment. In the light of the Paris agreement, will he meet me and industrialists leading that key initiative to explore how we might bring that important project to fruition?

[Anna Soubry]

I hope that I do not disappoint the hon. Gentleman, but I am more than happy to have a meeting with him. He knows the terms on which we always have our meetings: not to shout at me. [Interruption.] Only in the House. I hope that he will join me in congratulating the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change on her outstanding achievement on behalf of our nation in playing a full and important role in securing the excellent way forward to ensure that the planet that we leave for our children will be better than the one that we inherited. Yes, I will have the meeting.

Boulby Potash and Teesside Unemployment

Debate between Andy McDonald and Anna Soubry

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Westminster Hall

[Anna Soubry]

I know—I only have 10 minutes.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop) on securing the debate. Obviously, we do not agree politically, but I would be the first to pay tribute to the continuing work that he does on behalf of his constituents. He has come here with a list of demands, and quite properly so—there is nothing wrong with that. As far as I am concerned, the usual rules will apply: if I do not answer any of the questions that he has asked, my officials will of course answer them later, and the same goes for interventions that other hon. Members have made.

The announcement that Cleveland Potash plans to shed 220 direct jobs along with another 140 contractor jobs is extremely bad news. I would be the first to concede that, and as the hon. Gentleman said, it comes at a particularly difficult time for this part of our country in the wake of the closure of the SSI plant at Redcar. The impact is not lost on this Minister, nor on the Government: it is bad news for those workers and their families. The hon. Gentleman is right that there is something about the run-up to Christmas that makes these things all the worse.

[Andy McDonald]

Will the Minister give way?

[Anna Soubry]

As an act of extreme generosity to the hon. Gentleman, I shall give way.

[Andy McDonald]

I am very grateful to the Minister; she is extremely kind. Will she apply her mind to the plight of those workers who were employed through agencies in respect of the SSI crash, and who are now having to go to the redundancy payments service and are not getting a return, notwithstanding the fact that they are producing P45s to show that they were employees? They are being told that they were self-employed and that there is nothing down for them. Will she please use her good offices to extend the rescue package to include those people?

[Anna Soubry]

I will certainly look at that, and I am more than happy to discuss it with the hon. Gentleman afterwards. However, if I may, I will talk about the situation at Boulby, which is, of course, the subject of the debate.

The Government, unfortunately, cannot alter the level of potash reserves. We stand ready to provide support to the Cleveland Potash workers through the Jobcentre Plus rapid response service. Let me say to the hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland that, as the hon. Member for Redcar knows, when it comes to some of the rather peculiar decisions that are often made by jobcentres, saying, “You can’t have funding for this,” or, “You can’t do that,” I urge him to give me the examples—my door is always open to him and to other hon. Members—and I promise I will always do whatever I can to unglue some of the ridiculous rules that seem to exist. We cannot mess about. People are in danger of losing their jobs and we need to make sure that the support available for them is real support that delivers.

Our aim is to help all the workers who are affected, even though a final decision has not been made. However, I think we all know and understand where we are going in this unfortunate situation. I am told that the Department for Work and Pensions has already made contact with Cleveland Potash to see what can be done to limit the impact on staff, and officials in my Department are discussing how the company can provide the most effective support to the workers who will be affected.

I am pleased that the owners of Cleveland Potash have committed to the long-term future of the mine, particularly in developing their polysulphate product line. The commercial exploitation of that product is supported by the Government. In due course, as the product becomes more acceptable in worldwide agriculture, I hope that more jobs will come back to the mine.

This loss comes after significant job losses in the Tees valley, particularly with the liquidation of SSI, but also given what has happened with Caparo’s operation in Hartlepool and the pause—and it is a pause, we are told—in construction announced by Air Products in Cleveland. Let us hope it is just that—a pause—and that all then goes well. I know from my meetings with those directly impacted by the SSI closure how difficult a time it has been for everybody. That is not lost on me.

Steel Industry

Debate between Andy McDonald and Anna Soubry

Wednesday 28th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

No, I am not giving way. He was one of the first people that I met after my appointment, because I knew how much he knew about the British steel industry. It wants a level playing field, and it is right to do so. That is what this Government are doing.

Let me make it absolutely clear—

[Andy McDonald]

Will the Minister give way?

[Anna Soubry]

No.

[Andy McDonald]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. We hear from the Minister that no people were coming forward to discuss projects to take over at SSI. She needs to correct that position, because there were consortiums of—

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Soubry]

As I said, nobody came forward with an offer, and the hon. Member for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald) knows that I held a meeting with someone who had said they were interested, but the harsh awful reality was that nobody came forward with an offer.

[Andy McDonald]

rose—

[Anna Soubry]

No, I will not take any more interventions from the hon. Gentleman. I will talk to him as I always do but I do not have time for interventions.

Let me explain the actions that the Government have taken. On energy costs, we have already paid out £50 million in compensation to the steel industry. In relation to the “unfair trade”, as we put it—in simple and sharp terms “dumping”—one of the first things we did when we were elected was to take a decision and cast our vote to protect our steel industry. That had never happened before, and it was done specifically on the direction of myself and the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills. Then we turn to rebar—the investigation was started on behalf of this Government and on behalf of the steel industry after it came to us and presented us with the evidence.

Now let us look at procurement. Opposition Members, and indeed Government Members—I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Corby (Tom Pursglove) who fights as hard as he always does for his steel workforce—quite properly talk about a difficulty over procurement. Again, let us look at the evidence. The evidence is absolutely clear. We have already changed the rules for the benefit, not just of the British steel industry but for the whole of British industry, because we put into the score card of the public sector the fact that social and environmental considerations could be taken into account. That was the first time that had happened, so I am not taking any lessons from Labour Members, who had an opportunity to do that for 13 years and failed to do so. That is the sort of direct action that we have taken. We are taking this further. We have three working groups, one of which is looking specifically at how we can extend those rules further—and not just in the public sector.

Redcar Steelworks

Debate between Andy McDonald and Anna Soubry

Thursday 15th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

That was a large number of questions and time precludes me from answering them all. I undertake to ensure that any questions that are not answered in what I say receive a written response.

It is not true that there is no new money. There is an £80-million package, £30 million of which is an estimated figure. We discussed all that during the urgent question on Tuesday. Indeed, the hon. Member for Redcar said that the estimate was between £20 million and £30 million. In any event, there is at least £50 million of new money. I have answered the question on FE colleges. That £50 million of new money is there to support the workers and the supply chain, so that there is reskilling, retraining and—[Interruption.] I am sorry, but I cannot hear what the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) is saying. If he wants to ask a question, he is more than capable of doing so, and I will answer it.

The reason why we are in this situation in Redcar is that, unfortunately, month on month, year after year, SSI lost money. It never made money at the Redcar steelworks. The coke ovens, as I said on Tuesday, were losing £2 million month on month. That is the harsh reality. The hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland knows the situation. Of course he feels huge passion about it because he has put a long-seated investment of his own life and skills into the plant. He knows the devastating effect that its closure will have on the local community, but the Government have done all they can and now we have to look to the future.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

They haven’t.

[Anna Soubry]

They absolutely have. The hon. Gentleman who shouts at me from a sedentary position knows what Government officials and I have done on numerous occasions in the face of the most peculiar and appalling practices from the Thai owners. He knows that on one occasion, for example, the employers liability insurance had not been paid. We found out at 4.20 in the afternoon. I was making calls at 9 o’clock at night to make sure that the workers still had their insurance cover at least up to Monday. We literally scrabbled around looking for money. We made sure that the workers were paid their wages. He knows that that was done on the specific direction of myself and the Secretary of State, who said, “Get the money together to make sure the workers are paid.” Those are the sorts of things that the Secretary of State and I have done.

Now we have to look to the future to ensure that there is a future for the workers, their children and their grandchildren. That is what this package delivers.

--- Later in debate ---

[Anna Soubry]

My hon. Friend is right. What happened on 1 October, when we were looking at ways of support, is that we suddenly discovered—literally on a website, on a tweet—that the parent company in Thailand had effectively gone into administration and had registered so in Thailand. That changed things completely. The Secretary of State and I sat in Redcar at 9 o’clock that morning and we knew and understood that any money we put in would go straight into Thailand and into the pockets of three Thai banks. There are no procedures and no devices in those circumstances to ensure that the money would, in any event, have gone to Redcar—never mind the state aid rules.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

Why is the Minister not listening to the two consortia that have come forward with bids at the last minute? They should be given the opportunity to formulate those bids and the Government should be keeping it going. It is no good doing the Pontius Pilate act and just washing your hands of the responsibility. Why are Ministers privately supporting mothballing, yet not getting that support from the Secretary of State and the Prime Minister? If you can’t answer this, what are you there for? What’s your purpose if you don’t step up?

[Anna Soubry]

The hon. Gentleman is right, but I am afraid he is, in this instance, absolutely wrong. The situation is that, yes, there have been expressions—[Interruption.] No, let me answer. He is right that there have been expressions of interest very late in the day, after the official receiver said on Monday that no deals had been forthcoming that were workable. The official receiver then went back to those consortia and said, in effect, “Put your money where your mouth is,” and they refused—[Interruption.]

[Andy McDonald]

You put your money where your mouth is.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Mr McDonald, I absolutely understand and empathise with your incredibly strong feeling on this subject—and I mean that—but we cannot have a situation in which people yell at a Minister who is giving an answer. You might not like the answer, but, forgive me, the answer must be heard. The Minister is capable of looking after herself, but the answer must be heard. Please. I will always give people a chance, but the Minister must be heard.

[Anna Soubry]

I know the hon. Gentleman and I disagree, but we cannot—

[Andy McDonald]

You can.

[Anna Soubry]

The hon. Gentleman can sit there and say, “You can”, until he is blue and red in the face, but the state aid rules are incredibly clear.

[Andy McDonald]

indicated dissent.

[Anna Soubry]

The hon. Gentleman forgets that the last time Redcar was mothballed, it was mothballed by Tata, and it did so because those were the state aid rules. If there was a viable offer and anyone looked, as they have, at the situation at Redcar, they would say, “Those ovens are losing £2 million month on month”. The steel was losing half a billion pounds. In reality—and the official receiver has said the same—who will want to invest in something that was losing money hand over fist?

Redcar Coke Ovens

Debate between Andy McDonald and Anna Soubry

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry]

It was, I think, a first when a clear ministerial direction was given that we should vote in favour of anti-dumping measures in the European Commission, and we did that. Last week we abstained from another vote, and I am more than happy to explain to my hon. Friend in more detail why we did that—Mr Speaker, quite rightly, wants me to keep my remarks short. There was a good reason for that abstention, because by doing so we were actually voting in favour of supporting the British steel industry.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

More than 20% of the people affected by this issue are from Middlesbrough, as they know only too well. Like me, they heard the Secretary of State say that he does not like industrial strategy. They know exactly what those words mean—[Interruption.] It is no good the Minister whingeing, because that is what the Secretary of State said, and this is how it impacts on people. The Minister hides behind state aid rules, but she or the Secretary of State could intervene if they were minded to. There is regional and environmental aid. Italy, France and Germany have stepped up, but this Government have completely lifted the white flag and surrendered. The people of Teesside will never forgive them for that and for having to spend £1.1 billion to clean the place up. It is an absolute utter disaster, and the Government should be ashamed of themselves.

[Anna Soubry]

The hon. Gentleman was at the meeting—he wanted to come to it and I said he was more than welcome to attend—and he knows that nobody put up a white flag. He is not stupid, and he knows the reality—[Interruption.] I am not patronising; I am reminding the hon. Gentleman, because he is intelligent and he knows, that the price of steel has almost halved. We are not hiding behind state aid rules. I challenge him to tell me what we could do that is within the state aid rules, and I will have a look at that. We have explored everything.

UK Steel Industry

Debate between Andy McDonald and Anna Soubry

Thursday 17th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Andy McDonald]

Let us not dwell on this. My hon. Friend the Member for Stockton North (Alex Cunningham) was here and he has made his contribution. He has done us the courtesy of doing that and he has shown his commitment, so let us have none of that. Let us move on.

Teesside steel is the reason many of us are here. There would be no town of Middlesbrough without steel. I am not going to give people a history lesson but, although Teesside might have the largest blast furnace in the UK, a few years ago we had 100 blast furnaces down on the banks of the Tees. It was like Dante’s “Inferno”. The only reason we are here is steel.

The SSI furnace is fighting for survival, and its loss would spell disaster right across the Teesside constituencies for the 2,000 people directly employed there, the 1,000 contractors and the 6,000 workers in the supply chain. If the plant were to go into administration, it would have an impact on 9,000 families, which would be devastating. For example, PD Ports at Teesport has a contract with SSI and it has seen well in excess of 7 million tonnes of steel pass through its port in just three years.

We have had debate after debate about the need for high-quality apprenticeships for our young people. Our Teesside industrialists and educationists have responded brilliantly to the challenge to ensure that we have the requisite skills coming through, but if there are no jobs for our youngsters, that will critically undermine all their endeavours. The Teesside steel industry might no longer employ the 40,000 people it employed in its heyday, but if it were to fall over, it would send a seismic shock right through the region.

The UK steel industry has faced a perfect storm in recent years with challenges coming from imports, energy costs, exchange rate pressures and a weak market. Many of the problems faced by the UK steel industry are indeed global, as the Government have been quick to point out, but it is important to note that the steel industries of some of our European counterparts are not facing the same cost pressures and are able to access state aid more readily because of alternative policy choices made by their Governments. We are here today to demand that the Government make different policy decisions so that our steelworks are not consigned to the history books and will continue to play a vital role in UK industry for years to come.

The steel industry cannot wait for state aid clearance for assistance with energy costs. The Government must feed through 100% of the energy intensive industry compensation package now. Other countries have secured clearance retrospectively and so should we. The Government often state that it is their plan to rebalance our economy so that prosperity can be shared across the regions, moving away from an over-reliance on the service sector and towards manufacturing and industry. Indeed, many Governments have said the same thing, but they have rarely delivered. If the UK steel industry is the litmus test of this Government’s rhetoric, the signs do not bode too well.

I read an article this week in the Financial Times about the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, in which it was revealed that he had a poster of Margaret Thatcher on his wall. It was not the poster that worried me, however. I was worried by his aligning himself with her attitude towards British industry. He has said that he does not like to use the term “industrial strategy”, as it would suggest that he cared about some industries more than others. As Alastair Campbell said of Tony Blair, “We don’t do God”, we now have a Business Secretary saying, “We don’t do industrial strategy”. The Minister for Small Business, Industry and Enterprise, the right hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry) is shaking her head—

[The Minister for Small Business, Industry and Enterprise (Anna Soubry)]

No I am not.

[Andy McDonald]

She can google the article that was in the FT a couple of days ago. Those are the words that the Secretary of State used. I put it to her that people want an industrial strategy, and that the Government should have one. I recommend it. I found that to be a baffling admission by the Secretary of State. We do, at certain times, prioritise particular industries, because they might need additional support in the short term so that we can enjoy their social and economic benefits in the long term. UK steel ought to be one such industry.

SSI is one of four major players in a hugely ambitious carbon capture and storage project which would not only deliver a massive dividend in terms of energy costs and lower carbon emissions but sustain those very industries and attract major investors into the region to join the CCS network, with all the advantages that the project entails. It is imperative that Government recognise the crucial importance of the project and give SSI and its partners every assistance and support. With a fair wind, Teesside could be on the brink of becoming the carbon capture capital of Europe, and sustaining the Redcar plant is vital to making that a reality. I plead with the Government not to take their eye of that particular ball. In addition, there are vast reserves of coal sitting off the north-east coast. The exploitation of those 400 years’ worth of energy coupled with CCS would not only guarantee the survival of our core industries and attract massive investment but make Teesside a world leader in clean energy.

The impact of steel closure on Teesside would be devastating, but I am not convinced that this Government give a tupenny fig for Teessiders. I do not think they are listening. The Minister shakes her head, but on Tuesday we debated the impact of the cuts to tax credits. This is the same community that would be affected. In the Secretary of State’s constituency, 37% of families depend on tax credits. The figure in my constituency is 81%. The cumulative impact of any closure would be devastating to an entire community. That is what is at stake, and I hope that the Minister will take my comments seriously. I will not dwell on them. I wanted to say more about that issue, but I know that other Members want to speak.

In my constituency, which depends heavily on the availability of good jobs in the steel industry, there is a backdrop of great need. I implore the Minister and the Prime Minister to convene a steel summit of the major players and decision makers to put together a rescue package for the steel industry as a matter of supreme urgency. As my hon. Friend the Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) suggested, I would also encourage all participants to leave no option off the table.

I know the visceral rejection that would greet any suggestion of major state intervention, and I know the abuse that is often hurled at anyone proposing such a response, but we cannot rule out renationalisation. If it is a choice between this industry falling over and taking it back under state control, I think I know what the steelworkers around this country would want the Government to do. I also think I know what many industrialists, who are committed to a strong manufacturing base in the UK, would expect the Government to do. We have only to look to Italy. On Christmas eve in 2014, the Italian Government announced that they were temporarily nationalising the Ilva steel plant to safeguard thousands of jobs and make the necessary investment before putting it up for sale. That was an enormous public commitment, and it is one that should not be unthinkable in the UK. The history books will look favourably on Alistair Darling and Gordon Brown for having taken urgent and decisive action in 2008 to save the critical banking industry. This is this Government’s RBS moment. The country is watching and it does not expect to find its Government wanting.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for Small Business, Industry and Enterprise (Anna Soubry)]

May I begin by congratulating everyone who secured this debate? It has been excellent, with some fabulous speeches by hon. Members who have done what we should all do when we speak in this place, which is represent constituents, especially in times of great difficulty.

I pay tribute in particular to the hon. Member for Redcar (Anna Turley)—I hope I have pronounced her constituency name correctly, or I will be trouble—and to the hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop). I will talk briefly about the particular problems with the steelworks in their constituencies, but I will not say too much, because this is a critical time for them, and in some ways the least said, the better. I do not want to say anything that might alter or affect the very good work that both hon. Members are doing in trying to find a solution to the problems at this difficult time. I hope that everybody will accept that and—if I may put it this way—not quiz me any further, because after this debate we will meet those union members who are in attendance, and I look forward to that.

I also pay tribute not just to all those who work in the steel industry, but to their families at this very difficult time. Many people listening to this debate or reading about it in their local newspapers are undoubtedly very worried about not just their and their family’s future, but that of their community. I get that—I thoroughly and totally understand it. I do not know whether that is because my great-grandfather began his working life as an apprentice cutler in Sheffield. I remember making the journey from Worksop to Sheffield as a teenager and a young woman and seeing the forges there. It was a fabulous sight. Indeed, I was reminded of it when I visited Celsa in the constituency of the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty). That was a truly remarkable experience, because I had never seen the fabulous process involved in the recycling of steel—I will come on to that in a moment—or the high quality and skills of the workforce. I have also visited the Port Talbot plant in the constituency of the hon. Member for Aberavon (Stephen Kinnock), which has a highly skilled workforce doing a very dangerous job. That should never be underestimated

I thoroughly echo the Prime Minister’s words in response to a question last week by the hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin):

“We will go on doing everything we can to support this vital industry.”—[Official Report, 9 September 2015; Vol. 599, c. 404.]

I fully agree with that. My task in my role is to champion the steel industry and do all I can, not only as a champion, but to make sure that the Prime Minister’s words are echoed right across Government and that we do not fail in doing everything we can to support this vital industry.

[Andy McDonald]

When there was a crisis in the south-west of England after the floods, I recall the Prime Minister saying that the problem would be corrected no matter what the cost. On the steel industry, he has said that he will do everything he can. Does that mean that the outcome will be secure and that he will do anything to keep the steel industry on the rails?

[Anna Soubry]

The Prime Minister said:

“We will go on doing everything we can”.

I am not looking for excuses. When she opened the debate, the hon. Member for Redcar said—I wish she was not right, but she is—that the steel industry is in crisis. The hon. Member for Aberavon has said that it is about 10 minutes to midnight. The hon. Member for Redcar went on to say that the industry is in crisis because the price of steel has collapsed as a result of over-production in China—in fact, there is over-production across the whole world—and there are allegations that China is dumping its product. The problem, as the hon. Member for Middlesbrough (Andy McDonald) knows, is that the price of slag has gone from $500 to $300 in a year.

Unfortunately, the Government cannot force other countries to stop over-producing, any more than they can force up the price of steel. We can, however, look at measures and the hon. Gentleman and other Members can be assured that I will do all I can to make the argument within Government when we are doing things that we should not be doing. I hope the hon. Gentleman understands what I mean by that. I am not an actual free marketeer. I believe there is a role for Government, which is why I was more than happy—in fact, I demanded —that we voted in favour of the anti-dumping measures on Chinese wire. There are times when Government should and do intervene. We have a system to compensate those electric-intensive industries that pay an awful lot of money for their energy bills, and that includes renewables obligations and other tariffs.

I will be completely honest: I would much rather that the price of energy were considerably lower. I struggle with the current system, whereby we put something on industries and then use taxpayers’ money to compensate them for it. I want cheaper energy. That is what I see as the solution, but we cannot have it both ways. We cannot say that we want a greener, cleaner environment and to reduce emissions and hit targets—those are all the right things to do—without recognising that the consequences are that we all have to pay more for our energy. We have to accept the realities of the situation.

[Andy McDonald]

The Minister makes a valid point, but the point I made in my speech is that the steel industry is right at the heart of securing some incredibly powerful dividends with regard to cheaper energy and climate change. If it is not allowed to persevere, it will not be able to deliver them for us.

[Anna Soubry]

I agree, but as the hon. Gentleman also knows there are very strict state aid rules. We could have a debate about whether this country should impose them at a higher, gold-plated level compared with other countries. My hon. Friend the Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone) has said, “Everybody else tears up the rules and so should we”, but I do not agree, because we cannot complain about other people breaking state aid rules if we are doing it ourselves. I would much rather go to the European Union with clean hands so that we can say, “We’re abiding by the rules, so now you have to abide by them, too.”

The hon. Member for Rutherglen and Hamilton West (Margaret Ferrier) is not in her place, but she made demands of the Government. I hope she will forgive me, but I do not think she is aware of what the state aid rules are: they expressly prohibit the Government from giving any money to rescue and restructure a steel company in difficulty. EU state aid rules for steel permit support only for research and development, environmental protection and training, and only then within specified limits.

The hon. Members for Redcar and for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland talked about what happened to the SSI plant when it was under the ownership of Tata and mothballed back in 2009-10. I will be corrected if I am wrong, but as I understand it that process was not supported by Government aid. I absolutely pay tribute to the unions, the workforce and everybody involved, including the local Members of Parliament and, no doubt, local councillors, who came together to work out that package, but I understand that the state aid rules forbade the Government from giving aid.

UK Steel Industry

Debate between Andy McDonald and Anna Soubry

Wednesday 15th July 2015 Westminster Hall

[Anna Soubry]

I am sorry about that. I will happily take interventions, but the hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland will want to sum up in any event.

[Andy McDonald]

I do not know whether the Minister intends to cover this point, but I will ask her now: should the UK Government follow the lead of the Welsh Assembly by endorsing the charter for sustainable steel?

[Anna Soubry]

The short answer is that I need to make more inquiries about that issue, and of course I will write to the hon. Gentleman about it.

Yesterday I met Karl Köhler, the chief executive officer of Tata Steel. It is absolutely clear that his company will face huge challenges in the future; he has been very up front about that, and I understand that. My attitude—which hopefully was demonstrated last week, as has already been identified—is that this Government will and must do all we can to help the sustainability of the steel industry.

That is why I was so keen that we vote as we did about the threat of certain Chinese imports of certain steel products where there is good evidence that—unfortunately —China has been dumping. It is right that the EU should take the measures we are taking. I was so keen that we vote in favour of those measures that when the vote from the UK delegate was cast in favour of what many will say is a protectionist measure, although I do not have a problem with it, apparently it was necessary to go back to make sure, because it was the first time that it had happened and people were so shocked by it. I hope that the message goes out to all involved in the steel industry that I take this matter incredibly seriously.

The steel industry is a very important part of our manufacturing sector, it is important to our country and we have to do everything we can for it. However, the challenges are enormous and we should be under no illusions about that, and of course it is not only Tata but all the other steel companies that face real difficulties.

I will return to my speech—in fact, I will start it, or rather jump into the middle of it. The best way that the Government can support UK steel companies is through a successful economy and successful steel-using industries. That is why I take the view that we should stick with the plan that we started under the last Government. We will continue with it. Our ambition is to create the right business environment for free enterprise and to remove barriers to productivity and growth within sectors, including by deregulation, promoting fair competition and simplifying the business landscape. The Government work closely with the steel industry on a large number of issues, and that will continue.