Public Health

Andy McDonald Excerpts

Tuesday 14th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

I will consider that. My right hon. Friend is right to point out that this is a fast-moving situation and it is right that the Government continue to monitor it and respond when necessary, but I hope my right hon. Friend will agree that right here and now the matter being debated and the regulation before the House is the best possible response that can be given by this Parliament today.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Sajid Javid]

I will, but then I will need to make some progress.

[Andy McDonald]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State for giving way. If he is going to consider those matters will he also consider the following issue? The virus spreads if people are not able to isolate, so will he think about addressing the issue of statutory sick pay, and in particular spreading the scope of SSP and raising it to a proper rate so that people can isolate and therefore not spread the virus and not end up in our hospitals?

[Sajid Javid]

The hon. Gentleman will know that some measures are already in place such as the ability to get sick pay from day one and that there are hardship funds, but I understand the hon. Gentleman’s question: he asked us to look at that further and we will do so. All these matters are under review.

--- Later in debate ---

[Wes Streeting]

I have no doubt whatsoever that opinion in the workforce is divided. I do not dispute that, and it is divided partly because people resent the mandate. Ultimately, however, it comes down to this. It is not just about the broad arguments I have outlined or the specific cases we might be confronted with without this protection; we have to ask whether we as a House think it is acceptable for people working in health and social care, who have a duty of care to their patients, to say, “I am making a choice to put them at greater risk. I am working against the very principles that encouraged me to sign up to my vocation in the first place.” That is why, on balance, I think it is the right measure, but I will come on to talk about the way in which we need to take the workforce with us and what we need to do ahead of April.

[Andy McDonald]

My hon. Friend is setting out his response to these proposals with great care. On the vexed issue of mandatory vaccinations, does he acknowledge that 97% of those in my trust have been properly vaccinated and that a significant proportion of the remaining 3% are new starters making their journey towards proper vaccination? It is therefore not that clear. We have heard the responses from the British Medical Association, Unison, the Royal College of Nursing, Unite, the Chartered Society of Physiotherapy, the GMB and the Royal College of General Practitioners, who are opposed to making vaccination mandatory and prefer persuasion to coercion. Does he not think that we should be adopting that approach?

[Wes Streeting]

That is a helpful intervention from my hon. Friend. Let me be clear: I absolutely acknowledge the views that have been put forward by the royal colleges and by staff trade unions. Government ought to take them seriously and work heavily with them in this next phase, where there is still a window for persuasion. I also point the Government to the success that the Welsh Labour Government have had in persuading the workforce; there is much to learn and time available, and we have to work in a spirit of partnership.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paula Barker (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab)]

Given time, I will concentrate my comments on mandatory vaccinations for NHS staff. I find myself really torn on this emotive subject, and I also find myself trying to apply logic to what is quickly becoming an illogical argument from the Government Benches. If it is really about patient safety, the Government should already have identified workers in the NHS who are still unvaccinated and have been working with them to alleviate fears and concerns and remove barriers. The Secretary of State should explain to the House why it is acceptable for those in the NHS who remain unvaccinated to work on the frontline to assist with the omicron crisis but, come 1 April, to be dismissed. Quite frankly, it makes no sense.

Comparisons have been drawn with the requirement for NHS staff to be vaccinated against hepatitis B. The reality is that chapter 12 of the Public Health England Green Book, which provides the latest information on vaccines and vaccinations, states:

“Hepatitis B vaccination is recommended for healthcare workers who may have direct contact with patients’ blood or blood-stained body fluids.”

It is not the law. The Government proposal will see these workers work around the clock during the next few weeks and months, only to be dismissed on 1 April if they do not succumb to mandatory vaccination.

[Andy McDonald]

Does my hon. Friend agree that if these measures will come into force at the beginning of April and the parties concerned are to participate in a framework agreement for their roll-out, there is an ideal opportunity for those parties to work through how they may be implemented? By rushing the measures today, we are being robbed of that opportunity, despite the noises from the British Medical Association, the unions and the royal colleges.

[Paula Barker]

I thank my hon. Friend for that excellent point, which I agree with wholeheartedly.

The workers I am talking about are the workers who worked around the clock at the start of the pandemic, despite having inadequate personal protective equipment, because they were putting the nation first. They are the workers who will continue to work around the clock over Christmas and the new year. In an institution that is built on consent between patient and clinician, the Government are ripping up the rulebook to suit their own ends, while at the same time we are seeing the 17th reorganisation of the NHS since 1993.

We clapped for our care workers and NHS staff on a Thursday, and they will get us through the latest crisis over Christmas and the new year. But now the Government, who ripped up the rulebook last Christmas while the rest of us obeyed the rules, sacrificing seeing our loved ones—some in their final moments—are going to dismiss workers in April. And all this while No. 10 and the Department for Education not only had Christmas parties but told this House and the nation that they did not. The message is inconsistent and makes no sense.

We are told to trust the Government, but it is increasingly concerning that they are reviewing the Human Rights Act and want to replace it. We should be very afraid, because this could be a sign of things to come from a Government and a Prime Minister who believe they are above the law. Even worse, if they do not like the law and it does not serve their purpose any more, they will rip it up and start again until they get the policy or the outcome they want, irrespective of civil liberties or economic damage.

The right to choose, particularly when it comes to our own bodies, is something we should all take very seriously. I implore everyone to get vaccinated and boosted to protect themselves and others, but the Government have set a precedent that should worry every citizen. For the first time ever, we have seen the profession of care workers singled out; they have had conditions attached to their employment status that were never there to begin with.

There is so much that the Government could do in the weeks and months ahead, from constructive negotiations with the trade unions, which remain opposed to mandatory vaccinations, to ensuring that local authorities and health services have the resources and capacity required to deliver the ambitious daily targets for boosters, and that statutory sick pay is set at the Living Wage Foundation rate. Most importantly, they could follow the rules themselves, to give the public confidence that any measures introduced are proportionate and necessary.

Before entering this place, I represented care workers, NHS staff and public servants, many of whom are now my constituents. I take very seriously my responsibility to ensure that their voices are heard, while trying to balance that with the unprecedented situation before us and the importance of public health. I think we can do just that by consensus rather than compulsion.

I implore the Government to pause on the issue of mandatory vaccinations, withdraw the relevant statutory instrument and work on the issue with the trade unions, the Labour party and all those in the House who offer cross-party support. The Secretary of State himself has said that we have seen an increase in vaccination rates since the start of the consultation. Please, remove the SI and let us work together to get the country vaccinated.