Europe

Andrew Turner Excerpts

Wednesday 30th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Prime Minister’s much anticipated and delayed Europe speech of last week, announcing an in/out referendum after the next election, was an unnecessary gamble. It was a Machiavellian gesture, seeking to placate the increasingly frustrated Tory Back Benchers, as the Front-Bench team tries to manage party disquiet over Europe and the realities of coalition government. At best, it is a diversion and kicks Europe into the long grass; at worst, it will undermine investment into the UK, creating uncertainty and weakening our relationships with other EU member states. That is not a desirable place for the Government to be in if they are serious about renegotiating competences.

What we need is a clear vision and policy on the UK’s role in Europe and what sort of Europe the UK should be fully involved in. In general, I believe it is the role of politicians to make informed judgments and generate policies that are in the interests of our constituents and the general public, and I am therefore generally opposed to the use of referendums, except on strictly constitutional issues.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

Is sovereignty such an issue?

[Mark Hendrick]

The hon. Gentleman anticipates what I am about to say.

It is conceivable that any Government, either Labour or Conservative, would be drawn into negotiating a new treaty some time after the next general election in 2015. There may well be an inter-governmental conference at that time, especially given the state of the eurozone, and it may be necessary to have an agreement on fiscal rules, in particular between Germany and France, written into a treaty. Such a treaty would therefore be likely to come after any IGC. Given our experience in respect of the Lisbon treaty and the clamour from the popular media and the general public to hold a referendum, I believe it would be difficult for any political party to go into that election without committing to a referendum if there is to be treaty change.

The Opposition clearly accept the possibility of a referendum, given our commitment not to repeal the referendum lock legislation, which will trigger a referendum in the case of any attempt to transfer powers from the UK to the European Union or, indeed, to move to a position of enhanced co-operation in any one of a number of areas. I welcome the fact that we have not ruled out the possibility of having a referendum as part of our policy mix for the next election. Given that the Government have not made clear what their negotiating positions will be, and on what issues they would wish to push in the unlikely event of a Conservative victory at the next general election, our position is sustainable. It is a reasonable, measured response to an unreasonable movement in the Conservative-led Government’s policy.

I envisage the EU developing in such a way that there will be a hard core of countries that form the eurozone and an outer layer of countries, some of which will want to go into the eurozone and others, like the UK, that do not. Talking about the repatriation of powers to the UK does not serve the interests of people in the UK, as co-operation in Europe is more beneficial. Therefore, a future Labour Government should look at having powers of enhanced co-operation in new areas, so that an EU of 27 states can progress without the deadlock that the need for unanimity can bring. We should also look at how we might apply that to the outer layer of countries, one of which would be Britain, so that those countries that wish to go ahead with initiatives could do so without being held back by others.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

First, may I commend the Prime Minister on his fine speech in London last Wednesday? After signing the treaty of accession in 1972, Edward Heath said that the ceremony marked

“an end and a beginning”.

Now, our Prime Minister’s speech must mark the beginning of the end of our current relationship with Europe—it is a promise that, if we win the next election, the British people will decide whether we remain part of a reformed European Union, and it is long overdue. I hope that the Leader of the Opposition will reconsider his position. Instead of rubbishing a referendum, he should listen to many of his Back Benchers, who actually welcomed such a measure.

[Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)]

More than 4,300 people are on jobseeker’s allowance in my constituency, which is 300 more than last year. More jobs than that—some 5,000 in my constituency and 32,000 across Teesside—depend on EU markets, so surely the Government should be concentrating on protecting and promoting jobs, instead of blighting our country with talk of an in/out referendum.

[Mr Turner]

We should do both—that is the point.

Of course, the Liberals, once again, find themselves on the wrong side of public opinion. Their reason for dodging the Lisbon referendum in 2008 was that they were in favour—so they said—of an in/out vote. Their leader said:

“It’s...time for a referendum on the big question. Do we want to be in or out?”

That was their attempt to persuade the public that they wanted a referendum, but by 2010 they had changed their minds yet again. The fact is that they believe in giving more powers to Brussels, rather than fewer. Why are the Liberals afraid of asking the people what they think?

In 1975, we were asked:

“Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?”

I was in the minority, as I voted no. However, I believe that if the British people had known what the Common Market was to become, almost everyone would have voted no.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

Would the hon. Gentleman be so good as to explain to the House the evidence for the assertion he just made?

[Mr Turner]

It is only my guess—that is all it is—but it is a guess that I will explain to hon. Members. Since that vote, the European experiment has taken on a life of its own, consistently demanding more and more from the UK. We must reverse that trend or leave. I fully support the measures already taken by this Government in cutting an ever-expanding European budget. Previous Governments have given more and more money that belongs to British taxpayers—and for what in return? Was it to be told that we do not have the right to protect our natural fishing stocks against Spanish trawlers that ignore the rules, or that we must be left vulnerable to unrestricted migration from across Europe, including the expected influx from Bulgaria and Romania at the end of this year? The EU says we can do nothing to stop it. To quote Lord Denning, Europe is

“like a tidal wave bringing down our sea walls and flowing inland over our fields and houses”.

It directly affects the sovereignty of our nation and it is time to turn back the tide.

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that even in the unlikely event that his party wins the next election, we will still have a period of four years or so of uncertainty when investors will not know whether they should invest in this country?

[Mr Turner]

Of course it would be better if these things were done more quickly, but we must persuade Europe to change. If it does, okay; we must offer it that chance.

I am never very biddable when it comes to voting for further controls or regulations from Europe; neither are some of my esteemed colleagues on the Government Benches—nor, indeed, are some on the Opposition Benches. We do not vote against the Prime Minister to be awkward, but because we sincerely believe that our relationship with Europe must change and because we know that many of those whom we represent agree with us. If that change does not happen, the people must be asked whether we should be in or out.

[Mr Redwood]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the fundamentally undemocratic point is that if we legislate through Europe, we cannot reverse it on our own, whereas if we legislate in this House and get it wrong, or if the Government were to change, it could be repealed the next day?

[Mr Turner]

My right hon. Friend has made the exact point that I was about to reach. I sincerely hope that the Prime Minister can renegotiate our membership and come to an agreement where we do not have to contribute so much and get so little. We need only one fundamental change in our relationship with Europe: full sovereignty must lie with the United Kingdom. That would mean those of us elected to this House would be truly answerable to our constituents. I know that the Prime Minister will keep his promise on a referendum. If renegotiation does not mean that sovereignty will be returned to Britain’s shores—I am sorry, to the United Kingdom’s shores—a referendum is the only option left. The issue is sovereignty.

Mali

Andrew Turner Excerpts

Monday 14th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mark Simmonds]

I thank my hon. Friend for his remarks and, through him, I thank the charitable organisations in his constituency for their excellent and dedicated work. He will be aware of the terrible destruction of some historic Islamic icons that were an essential part of the historic make-up of Timbuktu. I am happy to provide support to the charitable organisations that he talked about. I suggest that he also take up the matter with my right hon. and hon. Friends the Ministers in the Department for International Development. It is essential that, when the security situation allows, humanitarian assistance and further assistance to build capacity in the provision of services are allowed in to ensure that people in northern Mali have a proper state under which they can lead happy and fulfilled lives.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

I should like to pursue the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis). There are obviously people in Mali supporting this action, but how many people are coming from outside the country to support it, and how many countries around Mali appear to be supporting it—not the Governments, of course, but the local people?

[Mark Simmonds]

I would say three things in response to my hon. Friend. The French deployment is of course at the request of the Malian Government, and the limited British support is at the request of the French. There is no doubt that the terrorist activities in the northern part of Mali have attracted people from outside northern Mali to participate, which is one reason that the matter needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later.

In response to my hon. Friend’s final point about the support from regional countries, from the discussions that I and my right hon. and hon. Friends in various Departments have had, I think I can assure him that almost all Governments, and therefore people, in the region support finding a long-term, satisfactory solution to the current problems in Mali.

Syria

Andrew Turner Excerpts

Thursday 10th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

Progress has been made in some areas, but probably more than half the 4 million people in desperate need cannot currently be reached with humanitarian or medical assistance. That is why I reiterated the appeal to all concerned in Syria to allow peaceful humanitarian access. This is a major aspect of the crisis. Of course, there is nothing that we can do directly to change that other than to work with the agencies and the National Coalition and to call on the regime to allow such access.

On the hon. Lady’s point about her constituents, I will have a look at the specific case if she would like to give me the details. However, it is quite a long time now—about a year and a half ago—since we asked all British nationals to leave Syria. Our embassy had to be closed for safety reasons a long time ago. The Hungarians then very generously took over our consular responsibilities, but they have had to close for safety reasons as well. She can therefore understand that our ability to assist people on the ground in Damascus is now virtually non-existent.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

What steps is my right hon. Friend taking to ensure that the minority Christians, many of whom have given their acquiescence to the Government, would not face persecution if Assad’s regime were to fall in whole or in part?

[Mr Hague]

I am glad to say that Christian activists have joined in the opposition National Coalition. We stress at all times to the National Coalition the importance of not only maintaining the inclusion of Christian, Kurdish and other minority communities but constantly reiterating its commitment to a country where in future all those people have their rights acknowledged and can prosper and live together peacefully. That is very much the declared intention of the National Coalition, and we must hold it to it in future years.

EU-UK Relationship (Reform)

Andrew Turner Excerpts

Tuesday 18th September 2012 Westminster Hall

[Andrea Leadsom]

I entirely respect my hon. Friend’s views and perhaps I should say “multi-tier”, because his criticism is very fair—“multi-speed” is the wrong term. The point that I was trying to make is that there can be different relationships with the EU, not that different countries are all trying to get to the same end-point. His criticism is fair; I apologise for my careless writing there.

The key advantage of the EU for Britain’s national interest is that of a trade area. I think that most people, whether or not they are in favour of Britain’s membership of the EU, would accept that Britain will continue to trade with the EU. In fact, 48.6% of UK goods exports now go to the EU as a whole—

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Andrea Leadsom]

However, one can slightly reduce that figure if one looks at the Rotterdam-Antwerp effect, if that was the point that my hon. Friend was going to make.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Turner]

Not exactly. I was going to say that we can all be in favour of trading with Europe, but we do not have to be in Europe.

[Andrea Leadsom]

Yes. I thank my hon. Friend for that intervention. I am coming straight on to that point now, so I am very pleased that he has raised it.

The EU is already a significant trading partner, but there are significant opportunities for growth. Services account for 71% of EU GDP, but only 3.2% of that comes from intra-EU trade, and the UK Government continue to push for the completion of the single market, especially in services. Financial services gave us 11% of our tax receipts in 2009-10, providing a trade surplus of £31 billion in 2010. Financial services is an incredibly important sector in which there is enormous capacity for growth. Of course, that is why the Prime Minister used his veto last December.

What are the alternatives to EU membership? There are probably four. First, there is most favoured nation terms, under which around half of manufactured exports to the EU would face an average tariff of more than 5%, with some sectors being particularly badly hit, such as UK car exports, which would face a tariff of 10%. That would have a significant effect on UK business, making us a far less attractive location for foreign direct investment. In addition, the UK would lose its influence on framing EU regulations, so it would be required to buy in to EU regulations in order to trade with the EU but would have no say in framing them.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Turner Excerpts

Tuesday 4th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

We do give that support. The right hon. Gentleman is right about the extent of our support, which is, of course, very important for the Palestinian Authority to be able to function, particularly on the west bank. The position on trade relations is the one that I explained to the hon. Member for Glasgow North (Ann McKechin), and the European Union is very clear that an upgrade of the wider EU-Israel relationship depends on making substantial progress towards a two-state solution. That is a position that the United Kingdom firmly supports.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend have a look at the case of Mustafa Tamimi, who was shot at close range by an Israeli soldier recently? What can the Foreign Secretary do to ensure that future inquiries meet global standards?

[Mr Hague]

We have made representations about this case. The Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) has done so, and he visited the family on his recent visit to the region. Of course, we want all such investigations to be carried out thoroughly and to meet international standards. That will be part of our continuing representations.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Turner Excerpts

Tuesday 14th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

The hon. Gentleman is right about the proportion spent, which I picked out for the answer that I have just given him. Sometimes it is difficult to separate these things out, category by category. For example, the £30 million that goes into the promotion of Palestinian economic development feeds into work on prosperity and co-existence issues. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office is open to more project applications coming in for exactly such projects, and I will certainly work with the posts involved, in Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, to see what more we can do to encourage the activities that the hon. Gentleman has mentioned.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

Will the Government make it clear to the Israeli Government that an attack on any future humanitarian flotilla would be met by international condemnation?

[Mr Speaker]

May I gently remind the Minister that we are talking, narrowly, about co-existence projects and joint business initiatives?

European Union Bill

Andrew Turner Excerpts

Tuesday 1st February 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Bone]

From a sedentary position, the hon. Gentleman says that that is its entire readership. It is amazing if everyone who reads the Daily Express has signed the petition. I thank the hon. Gentleman for that intervention.

Those referendum pledges were sent in individually by readers of the Daily Express. They had to cut them out, fill them in, write an envelope, stick a stamp on it and post it in. For 370,000 of our citizens to go to that length shows the strength of feeling about a referendum. I congratulate the Daily Express on its efforts. By passing new clause 11 today, we will show that Parliament has been listening to the British people.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

Is my hon. Friend aware that some Liberal supporters on the Isle of Wight vote Liberal because when there was a referendum on Europe, in which they voted no, they recognised that it was the Conservatives who took us into Europe? I was not there at the time, but I have consulted them since. That is how they saw it—we were taken into Europe by the Conservatives. They found that a reasonable justification to vote Liberal. They were unhappy voting Labour, so they voted Liberal. They have voted Liberal ever since because we—the Conservatives—took the country into Europe. I was not among those Conservatives because I voted no, but many voted yes.

[Mr Bone]

As usual, my hon. Friend speaks on behalf of the people of the Isle of Wight and in response to their views. However, I do not want to get drawn away from new clause 11 by debating whether people deserted the Conservative party at the last election and stopped us having an overall majority because we went back on our pledge on Europe. I do not want to discuss that point.

Recently, I was browsing through a thoughtful, persuasive and enlightened book entitled, “Invitation to Join the Government of Britain—The Conservative Manifesto 2010”. I admit that it was interesting and had some bold ideas. More importantly, all Conservative candidates stood on that manifesto at the last general election, and all Conservative MPs should be committed to it. One bit jumped out at me. On page 67, under the heading, “Make government more accountable and representative”, it talks about

“providing more free votes, and protecting the principle that issues of conscience…remain subject to a free vote”.

There we have it—more free votes for Conservative MPs.

European Union Bill

Andrew Turner Excerpts

Tuesday 25th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Gilbert]

I simply do not agree. If rights are transferred to the EU level, every European citizen will benefit from those rights, including the many hundreds of thousands of British citizens who live and work in the other European Union member states.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that they have rights and we have liabilities, and that is the difference?

[Stephen Gilbert]

My hon. Friend and I share an interest in many matters, and I was delighted that the other place came to his rescue in the Parliamentary Constituencies and Voting Bill—although I am less pleased that it did not come to Cornwall’s rescue. However, on this issue I disagree with him. It is a caricature to say that they have rights and we have liabilities. The reality is that many of the people I went to school with now live and work in member states of the European Union and it is right that they should have protections extended to them in the same way that protections are extended to EU nationals living and working here.

My hon. Friend’s philosophical disagreement does not detract from my central point, which is that this is not a transfer of power or competence from the UK, so I do not see the need for the referendum lock to be introduced. More broadly, is it not belief in those human rights and the shared view of human nature—the belief in the rule of law, the sanctity of human life and that all individuals are born equal—that unites member states in the European Union and leads to our ability to have a common view on many issues?

European Union Bill

Andrew Turner Excerpts

Tuesday 7th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

That is a different argument about referendums on accession treaties. Such treaties do not extend the powers and competences of the European Union, and so are not within the terms of the Bill. If the hon. Lady wants to advocate a referendum on the accession of Turkey, there will, sadly, be time for her to do so because the process will take a while. However, that is a separate argument from the extension of powers and competences.

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

rose—

[Mr Hague]

No, I must make a bit of progress.

The Bill will give Parliament more control over whether the Government can agree to a number of other important EU decisions, sometimes referred to as the self-amending provisions of the Lisbon treaty. Those decisions, which are known as passerelles or ratchet clauses, contain built-in mechanisms that allow modifications to EU treaties or the exercise of one-way options, without recourse to either of the formal methods of treaty change.

The Government have identified three types of ratchet clause, although I hesitate to go into detail after the comments of the hon. Member for Blackley and Broughton (Graham Stringer). However, it is important to be clear on this matter. There are clauses that allow for a change of legislative procedure, clauses that allow for changes in voting procedure and clauses that allow for the expansion of the scope of an article allowing the European Union to act.

Given the lack of a universal definition and the Government’s aim of ensuring that our proposals are as clear as possible to Parliament and the public, we have set out explicitly which treaty articles require additional levels of control. As with future treaty changes, passerelles or ratchet clauses that entail a transfer of power or competence will require the consent of the British people in a referendum. There will be a referendum requirement on any methods in the treaties for giving up vetoes that we have deemed to be significant. Clause 6 covers the simplified revision procedure and six provisions in the treaties that allow for vetoes to be given up without formal treaty change.

Clauses 8 and 9 provide for parliamentary controls over two types of decision: the use of article 352 of the treaty on the functioning of the EU—the so-called broad enabling clause—and the use of three ratchet clauses in the field of justice and home affairs. Some additional proposals that require a vote in both Houses, rather than a Bill, are listed in clause 10. They are mostly articles that modify the composition, rules of procedure or statutes of existing EU institutions or bodies.

The coalition stated in its programme for government that it would examine the case for a United Kingdom sovereignty Bill. I announced in October that, following that examination, we had decided to include a provision in this Bill to place on a statutory footing the existing common law principle of parliamentary sovereignty. The doctrine that EU law has effect here for one reason only, namely that authority has been conferred upon it by Acts of Parliament and subsists only for as long as Parliament so decides, has been upheld consistently by the courts. However, we can see considerable merit in placing that position beyond speculation on a statutory footing. That will guard against any risk that in future, common law jurisprudence might drift towards accepting a different argument. In other words, we have included a clause that underlines the fact that what a sovereign Parliament can do, a sovereign Parliament can undo.

Oral Answers to Questions

Andrew Turner Excerpts

Tuesday 9th November 2010 Commons Chamber

The Secretary of State was asked—

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

1. What recent representations he has received on the procedure for amendment of EU treaties.

[The Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr William Hague)]

I refer my hon. Friend to the Prime Minister’s statement on the European Council on 1 November. The Council agreed that Herman Van Rompuy should consult member states about a limited treaty change connected with the establishment of a permanent crisis resolution mechanism for the eurozone. We also secured a clear agreement that any such treaty change, should it occur, would not affect the United Kingdom.

[Mr Turner]

It is said that the eurozone needs a new treaty to make it lawful to bail out Greece. It is claimed that that will not affect the United Kingdom as we are not part of the eurozone. Will the Minister confirm that the UK will not need to sign the treaty or, if we do, that the public will be given a referendum on the issue?

[Mr Hague]

It is my long-standing position—and, I think, that of my hon. Friend—that any treaty that transfers new areas of power or competence to the European Union should be subject to a referendum. Clearly, there are still consultations about what form a treaty change might take. It is clear beyond doubt that the United Kingdom will continue to be exempt from any sanctions under the stability and growth pact and we established at the last Council that any possible future treaty change would not affect the United Kingdom and would not transfer power or competence from the UK to the European Union.