Water Industry

Andrew Percy Excerpts

Tuesday 5th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Charlie Elphicke]

rose—

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

Then they went back up again.

[Charlie Elphicke]

Then they went back up again, as my hon. Friend remarks. Under the previous Government the water industry was allowed to become 100% mortgaged to make the tax avoidance work. There have been excessive pay rises in the boardroom at a time when hard-working families have not seen substantial pay rises. That has been very hard to justify and people look askance at that.

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[Andrew Percy]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing this debate. We have heard a lot about people having problems with a shortage of water. In my constituency, which is very low-lying and where we rely on significant pumping capacity to keep us dry, the problem has been the other way round: we have had too much water. While our water companies have been making big profits, we have not been getting the investment in keeping us dry, let alone in ensuring we have enough drinking water.

[Charlie Elphicke]

That is true. In some parts of the country we have too much water and in some parts too little. I am sure that at some point someone will raise the need to move water from one place where there is too much of it to another place where there may be too little of it.

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[Frank Dobson]

That is certainly true. Until 1995, Ministers from all parties accepted the statement by the water industry that the bulk of the water that leaked out of the system leaked out of customers’ pipes. It took a lot of effort from me and somebody who was working for me at the time to finally reveal that that was nothing short of a lie. It was not that the Ministers were lying; they were being provided with lies by the water industry. I have had the figure changed into fashionable litres now.

[Andrew Percy]

What was it in gallons?

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[Gavin Shuker]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. If we look at the price review periods since privatisation, we will see that water bills came down in real terms during only one of them and that was under the previous Labour Government. On the price review process, my hunch is that this Government believe that the water companies will read the signals coming from hard-pressed consumers and come in at RPI plus 0 or RPI minus 1 in the next price review period and claim it as their victory, but let us be clear: getting a sustained reduction in water costs requires action from this Government.

[Andrew Percy]

We have moved on a little, but the hon. Gentleman has graciously given way. He is doing a good job of reading the Labour brief and trying to pretend that all of a sudden it is interested in people’s bills. On the Pitt review, is he suggesting that it was somehow planned by the Labour Government, or did it come about because I and my constituents were all under about 2 feet of water for a long time?

[Gavin Shuker]

Intense flooding has major implications and climate change means that it will happen more regularly, but the hon. Gentleman seems to be saying that the previous Labour Government were in some way wrong to review the situation and flood defences. He was not the MP for his area at the time, but he knows that the flooding was devastating. If he wants proper action on ensuring that his constituents will be protected against the next bout of flooding, he should support our efforts to amend the Water Bill to make sure that there is a proper, workable Flood Re solution for flooding insurance. He mentions the Labour brief. I humbly point out to him that for the past few years I have been writing the brief.

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[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

I would like to go further in the debate and mention some of the powers that I think the water industry needs. I will focus my remarks around the Water Bill, and the fact that as with any industry, resources are scarce. It by no means passes the public by that their water bills go up, yet now and again we have hosepipe bans and so on because—let us be honest—of the mismanagement of our water resources. It does not help, however, when developers take no notice whatsoever of reports from water companies about the impact that their developments may have on the surrounding area. My constituency of Elmet and Rothwell is badly affected by such situations.

I recently had discussions with some people from Yorkshire Water about a small village in my constituency called Walton. It has a couple of houses that are badly affected by heavy rainfall and flooding. Yorkshire Water effectively said that a scheme to save two houses would cost £1.8 million—not in the region of something it could afford do—but that the problem came about in the first place because the original barn should never have been converted into a house. Messages to that effect were put forth at the time, but the conversion went ahead. The house was sold on in good faith and no matter what the situation in trying to alleviate the problem, Yorkshire Water is fairly certain that the water will always end up in that place. No one particularly noticed when it was full of cows, but when it is someone’s house, they tend to notice. That is a prime example.

My constituency is under unprecedented pressure for housing development. Figures from Leeds city council state that 12,500 houses could be built across my constituency. One place currently under great scrutiny is an area of Kippax called Sandgate drive. Some 260 houses are to be built at the back of some houses—by that I actually mean built on a hill behind those houses. Yorkshire Water has said that the water that will run off would be unacceptable and that it would put huge pressure on the water courses to deal with that run-off of water—something the developers appear to be ignoring.

The Environment Agency deals with water that floods off land and is taken away in rivers, but it is down to the water companies to deal with the surface run-off and to get it to the rivers. The current development plans do not help water companies in the slightest, which means two things: first, that resources that should be used to repair the network so we can use our resources more efficiently get soaked up in flood alleviation solutions; and, secondly, that people’s bills rise constantly, with no further improvement.

In an area of my constituency in the town of Wetherby, there is a planning application for 400 houses at the top of a hill. There have been problems with the water pressure in Wetherby. Yorkshire Water had to take measures on the Thorpe Arch trading estate to ensure it had proper pumping facilities to get the water to the top. That has been resolved, but only last week a resident told me that, last summer, on a very warm day, the water pressure dropped off when everybody in the area used the water. The developers have taken no notice of that, which means that Yorkshire Water must spend more of its resources dealing with the further drop in pressure, because it does not have the detonator to say, “That development cannot go ahead unless the developer is willing to spend huge amounts on the water infrastructure.”

A huge development—a dual carriageway ring road—is taking place to the east of Leeds. Back in the storms of 2007, my constituency, like that of my hon. Friend for—

[Andrew Percy]

Brigg and Goole.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I cannot believe I forgot the name of my hon. Friend’s constituency, but there we go. Like his constituency, my constituency had a huge amount of water flooding through it during those storms. Fundamentally, the river valley could not cope with the amount of water. Nobody can do anything about such one-off events, but we can avoid exacerbating the situation. There is a live planning application for a development on the floodplain in the village that was 6 feet under water that day, which is disgusting. Yorkshire Water should have the ability to turn around and say, “No. That area will not be developed.” The developers can put in any flood protection scheme they like on their new development, but they do not give a tinker’s cuss what happens 100 metres down the road, where the houses will be flooded.

Those problems can be alleviated if the water industry has the ability to work hand in hand with the developers. I mentioned the ring road, which should have a flood alleviation drain built under it. The proposal will have a huge impact on my constituents, who have had to deal with flooding and must now deal with extra housing. We are talking about investment in the water industry and how it best uses the money it gets from water bills. Given the pressures of development, we need to ensure that the industry has every ability to work hand in hand with developers.

One village in my constituency, Methley, suffers from huge toxic, rancid smells from a pumping station for sewage. Yorkshire Water believes that that happens because there is a kink in the sewage pipe somewhere in the two miles of road by the village. It does not have the resources to dig up the road and find the kink—it says that the number of people affected does not justify the amount it would need to spend. That is an example of the pressures the water companies are under.

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[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

The debate has been interesting, with more contributions from Government than Opposition Members—but I enjoyed their speeches all the same. The hon. Member for Luton South (Gavin Shuker) told us that he wrote the briefing for the Opposition. It seemed to consist of, “Here are lots of good things that the Government should have done, which we did not bother to do in our 13 years”, so he should perhaps revisit history a little before he writes his next briefing on this issue.

There are three water companies—Yorkshire Water, Anglian Water and Severn Trent—in my constituency, covering 250 square miles in two different counties. I have had experience of trying to deal with all three, and the experience can be different depending on which water company one has to deal with. I shall speak about my constituents’ experience with some of those companies and make some suggestions to make the consumer experience better, not just for my residents but for all constituents across the country.

We have been lucky and unlucky. We have seen considerable investment in the constituency in recent years, but that came after year after year after year of regular flooding. Bizarrely, over the last year or two, parts of the constituency have faced hosepipe bans because of a lack of water, while other parts have at different times been under several inches, if not feet, of water. Much of it has been surface water, and hence within the remit of the water and sewerage companies. My constituency, apart from a few bumpy bits, is generally very low lying, below the high-tide mark, and consequently most of the communities I represent rely on a pumping system to keep them dry. Where I live, there is a series of very high banks as well as pumping.

We have had some good experiences with Severn Trent, and have welcomed its investment in Westwoodside and Crowle. I have been a key member of the liaison team dealing with that investment. The company has also worked with customers: we have arrived at some solutions, and it has been generally responsive. That has not always been the case, but we have done reasonably well in recent years, and I am grateful for the company’s investment.

In Goole, which is covered by Yorkshire Water, we have had a very different experience historically, although it has improved a great deal recently. Goole has been flooded in at least four or five consecutive years out of the last seven or eight, including 2010 and 2011, when major assets failed in the town. At the time I was at pains to remind the House, and also Yorkshire Water, that sometimes it is the people who pay the bills who are the last to find out when something has gone disastrously wrong.

In 2011, I was in my wellies going from door to door and from street to street, visiting as many places in my constituency as I could. We were under rising water, because our pumping system had completely failed and if our town is not pumped, the water level rises very quickly. Over a period of about 12 to 18 hours, we all saw water levels rising. It was obvious that something had gone very wrong with our pumping system, particularly the big pumping station at Carr lane.

I became very angry when speaking to Yorkshire Water on the telephone, because it was impossible to obtain any answers. The company failed to communicate with residents at the most important time for them—when they were being flooded. Many of those people have medical conditions that require treatment, but power was going off, and there was still no communication. When the local authority, East Riding of Yorkshire council, tried to descend on the site, it was initially warned that it would not be allowed to enter, so it had to invoke its powers. All that was completely unacceptable.

Since then the position has changed significantly, thanks to the outcry from me and from local residents, and I am pleased to say that we have had a completely new experience with Yorkshire Water. The company has invested £3.6 million over the last 18 months to improve our pumping capacity by 20%, and 18 December will see the publication of a flood catchment study which it has funded and has cost a quarter of a million pounds.

That is all great news, but I must nevertheless ask why my residents and my constituency were put in such a position in the first place, given that it had been clear for a number of years that the town’s pumping capacity and the major assets that were meant to protect us were not fit for purpose. Yorkshire Water has tried very hard since then, and I feel very positive about what it has done, but we should not have been put in that position, particularly in view of Yorkshire Water’s dividends. There has been an improvement since 2010—the company’s dividend is now significantly lower in relation to its post-tax profits—but the statistics for 2005, 2006 and 2008-9 were pretty appalling, at the very time when we should have benefited from investment.

Meanwhile, bills were rising in my constituency. The Yorkshire Water household bill, which I pay every year along with other residents, was £264 in 2005. By 2009-10 and 2010-11, when we were under many feet of water owing to that lack of investment and an inability to maintain assets properly, it had risen to £330. Profit for utility companies is something that is established, and I have nothing against it as long as it is accompanied by investment, but the compelling statistics and data presented by my hon. Friend the Member for Dover (Charlie Elphicke) at the beginning of the debate made it clear that all is not well. We need either beefed-up powers for Ofwat, or the creation of further bodies to deal with water companies that are making huge profits while not investing in communities such as mine which are particularly prone to flooding.

Although Yorkshire Water’s profit-to-dividend ratio has improved since 2010, I am afraid that that of Anglian Water is moving in a different direction. I concur with some of the demands Members have made of the Government and the water industry. I hope the Minister will consider introducing new powers to allow companies making excess profits to be ordered to cut bills and to beef up the powers allowing Ofwat to require investment in our infrastructure when these profits are too high. The Government must stand up for consumers.

I was astonished that the hon. Member for Luton South (Gavin Shuker) claimed that because his leader had been making noises about consumer bills, all of a sudden people are concerned about water bills. If the hon. Gentleman had attended past debates or followed what many of us have been doing in our constituencies, he would know we have for many years been complaining about the fact that our constituents are paying more but we are not seeing the return in investment in our infrastructure. I thought that adding that political element to a debate that had generally been consensual was beneath him. In response, I have tried to make a wholly non-partisan speech.

There have been improvements in our area. My hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart), who is present and takes a great interest in these matters, will know of the transfer tunnel created in Hull which has helped to protect the Hull catchment a lot better. In Yorkshire, we have seen investments in the pipe network, which was in an abysmal state before privatisation, with massive leakage. We have also seen investment in my constituency.

Some good stuff has been done under privatisation by Yorkshire Water, Severn Trent and Anglian, but we now need somebody to stand up for the consumer where these companies are not acting as responsibly as they should. I hope the Government will respond to this debate by making sure the powers are in place to ensure these companies act responsibly towards their bill payers, who, after all, provide them with everything they have.

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[Julian Smith]

The right hon. Gentleman’s intervention is very accurate.

Those highly paid—highly compensated—board members showed no contrition about how tough it is at the moment for consumers. They basically said that they would not budge on their stretching of the tax rules to ensure that they paid no tax. We talked about the clause in their commitment to customers where they said that they would be responsible and that they were environmentally and socially engaged, but they just would not listen.

[Andrew Percy]

These figures are incredible. Does my hon. Friend share my concern that these people are being paid these million-pound salaries but they still have not responded to my request, on behalf of my constituents, to pay compensation to people who were flooded because their assets failed when the company failed to manage them?

[Julian Smith]

I absolutely do, because the situation is a kick in the teeth from Yorkshire Water to hard-working people in Brigg and Goole.

We asked the management team about their debt standing at 84.5% of regulated capital value at the end of March in contrast to the figure of 56% when the company was acquired. We asked them how they explained their £63 million of shareholder dividends in 2012 quadrupling to £256 million in 2013. We asked them how they could seriously defend, in these tough financial times, a dividend payment of 27.3% of 2013 revenue. We asked them to enlighten us on the risks of having more than £4 billion in debt and what would happen if things went wrong. We asked them how they explained the quagmire of vested and conflicting interests between the different board structures— between investors and the company and the various Yorkshire Water subsidiaries. And we asked them how they could explain the claim in their annual report that these complex financial arrangements led to lower bills for customers, given that bills actually went up by about 7%. The answers were not weak or woolly—they were non-existent.

I welcome the measures that the Government have taken on tax reform and the general anti-avoidance rule. That is a shift from prescriptive rules to a general rule, which is the right thing to do. However, should Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs really be having to wage an uphill struggle against a monopoly business that is providing customers with one of the most fundamental services and utilities in the world?

The Government have done a lot on tax, but I urge them to go further. I urge them to use things such as the Water Bill to implant exciting and novel policies from the Treasury and look at whether we can taper the level of deductions received for interest charges in corporation tax as shareholders take on more debt. Can we impose a bank levy on debt? Could we look at how to impose a levy payable by shareholders to customers so that the cost is not simply passed on to customers and instead they gain a share themselves?

Somehow, we must stop this limitless offsetting of interest against tax. We should push on with greater competition and consider ensuring that a percentage of profits goes back to customers. We should knock Ofwat about until it works vigorously in the interests of the consumer first, second and third. We should consider everything in the industry and say clearly to companies such as Yorkshire Water, “No. No more. This has to change.” We should shake this industry up from top to bottom.