Infected Blood Inquiry

Andrew Gwynne Excerpts

Tuesday 19th November 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health and Social Care (Andrew Gwynne)]

I stand here as the Minister for Public Health and Prevention, humbled and with a large degree of humility. The Department of Health and Social Care is rightly hated and despised by the infected blood community. We let them down. For that, I am personally sorry and my Department collectively is sorry.

I say that in a heartfelt way because for the past decade and a half, both as shadow Public Health Minister and as a Back Bencher, I have raised the issue of the infected blood scandal on behalf of the campaigns and of my constituents who were infected and affected. Now that I stand here as a Minister in the Department responsible, I feel it is incumbent on me to give that heartfelt apology. It is too late coming for so many, but I hope that those who are still here and their families and loved ones will accept it in the spirit in which I give it: I am sorry. We let you down and we must make sure it never ever happens again.

I welcome the two new Opposition spokespeople, the right hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Holden) and the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire (Mike Wood). I want to start in the way the right hon. Member for Basildon and Billericay finished, by assuring him that the Government will work collectively and constructively with Members from across the House, from whichever party they come and whichever part of the United Kingdom they represent. This is an issue that has stained the body politic of our country for too long, and it is incumbent on us to work together across parties and across artificial divisions to make sure that we get the best deal for our constituents and their families.

I also thank all right hon. and hon. Members who have contributed to the debate. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Blyth and Ashington (Ian Lavery) and my hon. Friend the Member for Gedling (Michael Payne), who made an incredibly powerful maiden speech, setting out how he will be a champion for the people of Gedling in the years to come. The people of Arnold, John and Joan, and his husband Kyle are all rightly proud of him today, from wherever they were viewing the speech. I also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Eltham and Chislehurst (Clive Efford), who has played such a pivotal role in this campaign over a large number of years, as well as my hon. Friends the Members for Swindon North (Will Stone) and for Portsmouth North (Amanda Martin).

On the Opposition Benches, I thank the right hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen), who led on this matter in his former ministerial position. We thank him for his work. I know that sometimes I was frustrated with him, from just behind where he is sitting, but I appreciate the work he put in behind the scenes as well as at the Dispatch Box. The hon. Member for Perth and Kinross-shire (Pete Wishart) has similarly been a tireless campaigner, as has the right hon. Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds).

The infected blood scandal is one of the most appalling in our nation’s history. It was an institutional failure of the highest order, spanning decades. From the national health service to the civil service to Ministers across successive Governments, at every level, those the public trusted to protect them fell short in ways that were both tragic and catastrophic. They let down victims, their families and our country. In the course of this debate, we have heard the names: Sean, Gary, Thomas, Jean, Ade and Joe. They remind us of the real people—those who are deceased, those who were infected, and those who are affected. They are real people, not statistics, and it is important that we never forget that. Victims were denied the truth; many passed away before they saw justice. The state worked to protect itself, and those people paid the price.

I must echo the tributes that have been made to Sir Brian Langstaff and his team by Members from across the House. Their steadfast pursuit of the truth finally brought this decades-long scandal to light. Sir Brian and his team have set us on a path towards beginning to right the terrible wrongs that were committed. They uncovered a litany of collective and personal failures, as many hon. Members have highlighted by sharing stories from their communities and constituencies. Each one is significant in its own right and together they add up to a complete disaster.

Sir Brian found that this national scandal could have been prevented. It was already known that these treatments were contaminated, yet the warnings were disregarded time and again. People in positions of power and responsibility had multiple opportunities to halt the transmission of these infections, but, on each occasion, they chose not to act.

Many in this House have campaigned for justice for a long time, giving voice to those who had been repeatedly silenced. In particular, I wish to pay tribute to my right hon. Friends the Minister for Policing, Fire and Crime Prevention and the Secretary of State for Wales. I thank my hon. Friends the Members for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi), for Hornsey and Friern Barnet (Catherine West), and for Newport East (Jessica Morden), and the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake). I also thank the former Member for Worthing West, Peter Bottomley, and the now Mayor of Manchester, Andy Burnham. In this debate today, we have again heard from my hon. Friends the Members for Eltham and Chislehurst and for Blyth and Ashington, the hon. Member for Perth and Kinross-shire, and the former Paymaster General, the right hon. Member for Salisbury.

As a Government, we will do our utmost not to repeat the mistakes of the past. We were elected on a manifesto that committed to act on the inquiry’s findings and to put right historical injustices. The public rightly expect nothing less of this Government than fulfilling our moral obligation to compensate victims, and we aim to do so without delay.

In October 2022, the previous Government spent £440 million on initial interim payments of £100,000 to the living infected. Following the publication of the inquiry’s final report in May, a further £728 million was paid as a second interim payment of £210,000 to all UK-registered living infected victims. The Government have also committed, in legislation, to paying £100,000 to the estates of the deceased infected to recognise those who have not yet received a payment and to ensure that some of those affected—such as parents, children and siblings—are supported. That scheme opened on 24 October. We recognise that money can never make up for the heartbreak that victims and their families have experienced, and much of the inquiry’s criticisms apply to the way that my Department—the Department of Health and Social Care—and its predecessors operated.

[Alex Baker (Aldershot) (Lab)]

My constituent Brendan lost his left leg while serving with the British Army in 1979. Decades later, he discovered that he had been infected with hepatitis C during the operation that saved his life. I know having talked to Brendan that, while he is pleased that the Government have committed to providing compensation, he is keen for us all to understand that, because of his community’s lived experience, there is an inherent distrust of the state. His instinct on being told that the state will spit out a number is understandably not to trust the process. Will the Minister reassure Brendan that all compensation offers will include a detailed breakdown of the data and rates used to make the calculations?

[Andrew Gwynne]

I can give my hon. Friend and Brendan the commitment that we will do just that, to reassure those who rightly have lost all trust in public authorities, and particularly in my Department, because of the dreadful actions that led to their infection. She has my assurance that we will do what we can to reassure Brendan and many others like him who rightly have no trust left in us that we will rebuild that trust.

[Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

I am sorry not to have been here for the opening speeches. Does the Minister recognise the fundamental similarity between the way in which the victims of this scandal and those of the Post Office scandal, and no doubt other terrible scandals, were treated by the state? Does the Government have any plan, possibly on a cross-departmental basis, to try to educate the bureaucracy that when terribly difficult and potentially expensive things like this crop up, they should not follow this well-worn path of denial and cover-up?

[Andrew Gwynne]

The right hon. Gentleman raises an important point. Indeed, it was acknowledged by my right hon. Friend the Paymaster General and Minister for the Cabinet Office in his opening speech that this is just one of a number of scandals that follow a similar pattern—when the scandal has been uncovered, rather than trying to protect the victim, the state has tried to protect itself. It is absolutely crucial that the state learns not just from each individual scandal, but collectively; that it is the same mindset that has led us to all these different scandals with similar outcomes for victims. That level of learning has to be genuinely across Government, and I know my right hon. Friend will lead on that in the Cabinet Office.

The Government will set out our formal response before the end of the year, but given that there is absolutely no time to waste, I want to take this opportunity to update the House on the work already under way to address some of the inquiry’s recommendations. To prevent future harm, the Department continues to explore options to enhance candour and openness across the national health service. To empower patient voices, the NHS is reviewing clinical audits related to haemophilia services to identify any gaps in patient involvement, alongside work on a new clinical service specification, which will set standards for services across England. To protect haemophiliacs, the NHS has convened an expert group to hear advice from the specialised blood disorders clinical reference group. A dedicated taskforce has been set up to consider its recommendations. The General Medical Council is working with NHS England and others to look at ways to ensure that lessons learned are reflected in training for doctors, nurses and other healthcare professionals.

Let me be clear to the House: the Government do not see this scandal in isolation. Sadly, repeated patient safety failings have eroded public confidence in our health and social care system, so we are taking steps to fix the culture of the national health service. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care has been clear that we will not tolerate NHS managers who silence whistleblowers. Openness and honesty are vital to ensuring patient safety. NHS staff must have the confidence to speak out and come forward if they have concerns. There will be no more turning a blind eye to failure.

Our wider reforms to NHS performance will provide greater transparency for the public who pay for it. Measures will ensure that top talent is attracted to the most challenged areas, and persistently failing managers will be sacked. That is about ensuring that the right people are in post to lead our NHS with the resources they need to do their job. If we get that right, we will be able to look back on this moment as a turning point for patient safety and for leadership.

[Sorcha Eastwood (Lagan Valley) (Alliance)]

I apologise, Madam Deputy Speaker; I was in Committee at the start of the debate, but I did have my name down to speak. Some of my constituents were impacted by the scandal, and it has taken them this long to summon the courage to come forward. Obviously, I represent them and Northern Ireland. We have talked about the Hillsborough law and the need for a duty of candour. Does the Minister agree that it is important that that is rolled out not just in England and Wales, but right across the UK, so that, as he said, those families are never again impacted in that way?

[Andrew Gwynne]

I hope that I can reassure the hon. Lady that although health is devolved across the four nations, and I can speak only on behalf of the NHS in England on a number of the recommendations, both the Department of Health and Social Care and the Cabinet Office are working closely and collaboratively with Ministers in the devolved Administrations. Indeed, I and my right hon. Friend the Paymaster General recently had a meeting with Ministers from Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales to talk about how to take forward the recommendations, on a four-nation basis where possible, and with mutual support across the four nations where there are individual recommendations pertinent to the devolved parts of the United Kingdom. I hope that that reassures her that we are working together. Although I cannot comment on the changes that will be needed for health services in Northern Ireland, which are a matter for the Minister of Health in Northern Ireland, Mike Nesbitt, I am quite certain that those services will carefully and closely consider our work here in England, and the work in other parts of the United Kingdom.

We have waited too long for these actions. People have waited too long for compensation. Indeed, right hon. and hon. Members have waited too long for this debate. More than 3,000 people died before they saw justice; families and our country were let down. There was a level of suffering that is so difficult to comprehend, because questions were not asked at the time, institutions did not face up to the failings, and facts were covered up. Now we know the truth. As we reflect, we are making a concerted effort to improve, because that loss need not be in vain.

I will respond to some of the questions raised throughout the debate, and will refer to other questions directly in the relevant part of my contribution. Should I miss anything because of time constraints, I will write to Members. In opening for the official Opposition, the hon. Member for Kingswinford and South Staffordshire talked about destigmatisation of HIV and hepatitis C. I hope that he understands that the Labour party made a clear manifesto commitment to ending HIV transmission in England by 2030. Officials at the Department of Health and Social Care, the UK Health Security Agency, NHS England and a broad range of system partners are now working together to develop a new HIV action plan, which we aim to publish by summer next year, and destigmatisation will be a key part of that plan.

My hon. Friend the Member for Blyth and Ashington asked about psychological support for family and friends. I reassure him that NHS England has established the infected blood psychological support service in England, which supported its first patients in late August. That includes supporting not just the infected, but the families and friends affected.

I want to turn to departmental failings. The report outlines a comprehensive condemnation of the organisation of blood services, licensing decisions, blood safety and patient safety, with harm compounded by the reaction and handling of Government. I again recognise humbly the criticism of the Department that I stand at this Dispatch Box to represent and its predecessors, and I am committed to ensuring that a tragedy such as the infected blood scandal can never happen again. This Government will prioritise patient safety to ensure that the NHS treats people with the high-quality, safe care they deserve.

Repeated inquiries and investigations have highlighted significant issues with patient safety, which has caused a deterioration in public confidence, as we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Alex Baker) in an earlier intervention. We must absolutely fix that. The Health Secretary has been clear that we will not tolerate NHS managers who silence whistleblowers. A culture of openness and honesty is vital to ensure patient safety. We want NHS staff to have the confidence to speak out, and we will give them that.

The hon. Member for Eastleigh (Liz Jarvis) raised the question of the safety of blood products. While no medical treatment can be completely risk-free, current safety standards for blood donation and transfusion are rigorous, and England’s blood supply is one of the safest in the world. Processes are in place throughout the blood donation journey to ensure the safety of blood and blood products, including the donation safety check form, testing for specific infections, donor deferrals, regulations and informed consent. According to Serious Hazards of Transfusion, the risk of serious harm because of blood transfusion in the United Kingdom is low, at one in 11,000 blood components issued.

Turning to timelines, so far more than £1 billion has been paid in interim compensation payments to victims of the infected blood scandal. As we heard earlier, applications opened on 24 October for interim payments of £100,000 to the estates of deceased people whose deaths have not been recognised. Parliament has now approved regulations that give the Infected Blood Compensation Authority the powers necessary to pay compensation through the core route to the infected, both living and deceased. The Infected Blood Compensation Authority has begun to process its first claimants under the infected blood compensation scheme.

[Jim Shannon]

In my intervention on the hon. Member for Perth and Kinross-shire (Pete Wishart), I asked about the siblings who qualify. One sibling seems to be worth more than another sibling, and that seems absolutely wrong. I understand that there has been no reply to that in the Minister’s summing up. Maybe he is coming on to it—if he is, I apologise—but I would love to have a response, because my constituents have asked me to ask that question and ensure that we have a response.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the Minister for the Cabinet Office is carefully considering this matter. If the hon. Gentleman would like, the Minister for the Cabinet Office will write to him, but he is considering it.

We expect the Infected Blood Compensation Authority to begin making payments to people who are infected under the infected blood compensation scheme by the end of this year. Payments to the affected are expected to begin in 2025, following a second set of regulations.

Turning to a question raised by the hon. Member for Perth and Kinross-shire about the independence of IBCA, it is rightly operationally independent. Parliament would clearly expect the Government to have oversight of a scheme of this size and for there to be proper management, given the amount of public money going into the scheme. It is true that there are only two non-departmental public bodies that are independent of the Government: one is IBCA and the other is the National Audit Office. It is absolutely right for IBCA to have that independence.

[Clive Efford]

On that point, the National Audit Office is directly accountable to Parliament through the Public Accounts Commission. Is the intention to create a similar sort of arrangement, as envisaged by Sir Brian Langstaff, in which there is direct accountability to Parliament, rather than to the Department?

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Gwynne]

I should clarify for my hon. Friend that IBCA is operationally independent—that is important —but it is absolutely right that Members of this House are able to scrutinise its operations, its working and, indeed, its use of public money. We are talking about a great deal of public money, and IBCA has to be democratically accountable to this House, albeit operationally independent of Government Ministers in its day-to-day business.

[Pete Wishart]

This is a really important point—both myself and the hon. Member for Eltham and Chislehurst (Clive Efford) have now raised it with the Minister. He has rightly identified the experiences of so many people caught up in this crisis, and the fact that they do not trust the Government or Government institutions. Would it not be more of a comfort to them to know that IBCA is like the National Audit Office: accountable to Parliament, rather than to Government?

[Andrew Gwynne]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman, which is why IBCA is operationally independent—that is the crucial thing here. It does not have the fingerprints of Ministers all over it, because that is where the distrust comes from. It operates independently, but as a public body it is accountable to this House for how it spends that money and how it operates as an organisation. While IBCA is operationally independent to ensure a separation between Executive Ministers and the functioning of that body, it is accountable to this House. I think that is absolutely the right balance.

[John Glen]

I endorse what the Minister has said about the way in which IBCA has been set up. It seems to me an entirely sensible arrangement that respects the need to have some distance from Government, but clearly there cannot be a bespoke arrangement for every single entity that is set up. This was the point I was trying to make, respectfully, about Sir Brian Langstaff earlier: he did a brilliant job, but some aspects of this issue will need a slightly different judgment made by Ministers. I welcome the decision that the Minister and his colleagues have made.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that intervention. I hope that Members across the House can see why we have set IBCA up in the way we have. It is for precisely that reason: we have to have that operational separation from Ministers and the Executive, but there also has to be political oversight from all quarters of this Chamber, because this is a public body spending public money—and a great deal of public money at that.

As I have said, we are aiming for the second set of regulations to be in place by 31 March 2025. That will support our intention that payments to the affected begin next year. There are important details, especially in relation to Sir Robert Francis’s recommendations, the majority of which the Government have accepted, that must be worked through ahead of the second set of regulations. This includes details such as the eligibility criteria for people who are affected, and how the Government should define the parameters of the definition of unethical testing.

Turning to payments, the selection of those who have been contacted for first payments was a decision for the Infected Blood Compensation Authority. The first group of people who are receiving invites to claim are: first, those who are known to be already eligible for compensation; secondly, those registered with support schemes, which means we are likely to have much of the necessary information for these people already; thirdly, those from areas across the UK; and fourthly, those who represent a range of infection types and of severity within those infections.

Let me turn to some of the questions raised about this area. The hon. Member for Eastleigh mentioned people dying before compensation is awarded. I hope I can reassure her that when a person with an eligible infection has, tragically, died before receiving compensation, we will ensure that their personal representatives can claim compensation on behalf of the deceased’s estate. I hope that clarifies the point for her.

My hon. Friend the Member for Swindon North talked about the exclusion of victims with hepatitis B from the compensation scheme. People with chronic hepatitis B and those who die in the acute period are eligible for compensation, as are their loved ones as affected. I suggest that my hon. Friend writes to the Minister for the Cabinet Office with his constituent’s details, so that we can look more closely at his case. My hon. Friend the Member for Eltham and Chislehurst asked whether there will be payments by the end of the year. The answer is yes, and as I have said, there will be payments to the affected from next year, when we have the new regulations in place.

The right hon. Member for East Hampshire asked about the steps taken to provide accessible information on compensation. I want to spell out to him that Sir Robert recommended that there should be a higher award of £15,000 for children subject to unethical research at the school in his constituency. That is why there is a difference, which I hope clarifies that point for him. As I have said, at the start of November the Infected Blood Compensation Authority invited the first cohort of people to make compensation claims.

Candour in the civil service and in Government was raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Eltham and Chislehurst and the hon. Member for Perth and Kinross-shire in their contributions. The King’s Speech set out the commitment to bring forward legislation to introduce a duty of candour for public authorities and public servants. This legislation will be the catalyst for a changed culture in the public sector. The Prime Minister confirmed at the Labour party conference that legislation on the duty of candour would be delivered by this Government. He confirmed that the duty will apply to public authorities and public servants, and it will include criminal sanctions. The Bill will be introduced to Parliament before the next anniversary of the Hillsborough disaster in April 2025.

In closing, today I hope the House has heard how we are starting to deliver compensation and how we are starting to respond to the inquiry recommendations. Admittedly, they are still small steps, but they are steps in the right direction. This work is far from over. We owe it to the victims and their families to see it through, and we will of course regularly update the House as this progresses. I reiterate on behalf of the Government and the Department of Health and Social Care, and as a mere ordinary Member of Parliament for Gorton and Denton, representing some of the infected and affected, that we are truly sorry. We let you down. We will learn from these lessons, and we must never ever let anything like this happen again.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the Infected Blood Inquiry.