Retail Store Closure: Boxing Day

Andrea Jenkyns Excerpts

Monday 12th December 2016 Westminster Hall

[Helen Jones]

The hon. Gentleman makes a very reasonable point. My view is that, if people are going to shop online rather than go to the shops, they are going to do that anyway. For instance, it was put to me that many people receive vouchers for Christmas, particularly children, and that they enjoy spending them. Yes, they do, and I suspect they would enjoy spending them just as much on 27 December.

We need to find a balance. If my right to shop is being exercised at the expense of some of the poorest-paid people in our community, their time with their family should take precedence. It is a question of what kind of society we want. Do we want a society in which people are able to spend time with their family—their children or parents—or maybe even invite in an elderly neighbour who is on their own, or do we want a society that is a free-for-all, and in which the weakest go to the wall?

[Andrea Jenkyns (Morley and Outwood) (Con)]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Helen Jones]

No I will not, because the hon. Lady has just walked in; she was not here from the beginning of the debate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrea Jenkyns (Morley and Outwood) (Con)]

I apologise for coming in late, Mrs Moon; my meeting overran. I did want to be here at the beginning of the debate and I appreciate your giving me the chance to speak.

Retail is in my blood. I was in it for nearly 20 years. I started off at Greggs bakery at the age of 16, worked my way up, and worked for many major and small retailers, so I was one of the low-paid workers that hon. Members have been talking about, and I have to say that I disagree with what the petition is about. I have worked Boxing days and new year’s days. I have worked over the Easter period and on Good Friday. When you go into retail, that is expected. Times have changed. I agree with what some hon. Members have said: what about the other industries? I was also a performer and singer and used to work Christmas eves and Christmas days with my pianist, singing and entertaining people in restaurants. I did that because I wanted to make ends meet. To me, it was part of the lifestyle that I had chosen and it was my choice. When I worked on those Boxing days and new year’s days—

[Catherine McKinnell]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Andrea Jenkyns]

Sorry, not at the moment; I will come back to you. So many times when I was working on those Boxing days, new year’s days and so on, colleagues who had the day off would come in and see us because they were out shopping with their families. You are talking about giving people time off, but I saw that a lot of my colleagues were out shopping anyway. Times have changed.

The retail sector has Christmas day and Easter Sunday off, but it is not just about the Christian side of things. We live in a multicultural society, so this is not about any particular religion, really. I would like to put forward the other view, which is that of retailers. Retail is in my blood, as I said. High street retailers have found things so hard over the last decade, because of the internet. I have seen so many businesses close down. I used to work for Comet. It had been around for more than 100 years. Look at what happened to Comet; look at what happened to Woolworths. I also used to work for Allsports. All of those went bust after decades.

Boxing day was the busiest day of the whole year for us in retail. I remember that in one Comet store, we took more than £100,000 in one day. Normally, on the busiest Saturday, we would be lucky if we took £15,000, so to me, we are biting the hand that feeds us. Retail is struggling. The high street is dwindling; the internet is killing the high street. More and more people are shopping online, and that is just an inevitable aspect of the internet; I am not saying anything against it. However, if Boxing day is the busiest day of the year and we stop the ability to trade on that day, what will happen to the job security of these low-paid workers?

[Helen Jones]

Will the hon. Lady give way?

[Andrea Jenkyns]

I will give way to you even though you did not to me.

[Helen Jones]

That is because the hon. Lady did not come in for the beginning of the speech. It is rude for someone to try to intervene when they were not here for the beginning of the speech. The hon. Lady is wrong: Boxing day is not the busiest day of the year overall. It may well have been where she worked, but it simply is not—

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrea Jenkyns]

In retail, it is.

[Helen Jones]

That is not the case. Figures from the Library show that, overall, Boxing day sales are not as high as those for the peak day in December or the peak day in November.

[Andrea Jenkyns]

With respect, in all the years that I worked in retail—you have not worked in retail like I have—it was the busiest day.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (in the Chair)]

Order. I have worked in retail. I assume that you are referring to me.

[Andrea Jenkyns]

No, sorry, I was talking to the hon. Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones), but thank you, Mrs Moon.

My point is that we need to provide this opportunity. I know so many students who would welcome the opportunity to work on Boxing day and new year’s day to earn extra money and, as has been said, what about hospitality workers or those who work in the NHS? Are we just going to ban anyone from working so that life completely stops on Boxing day? That is not realistic. To those who say that we should stop people working on Boxing day, I say that I do not want any more retailers to go out of business. I worked in retail for more than 20 years, and a large number of the workers whom I worked with in my 20-year career were happy to work on Boxing day. Not everyone is signing this petition, and look at how many people work in the retail industry.

[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mrs Moon. I congratulate the petitioners and the hon. Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones) on initiating the debate. It is a pleasure to be in the company of so many former retailers—and I was a retailer, too. I was thinking that my time in retail was such a long time ago until I started listening to the hon. Lady; all the memories came flooding back of those times and of the stresses at peak season, as we called it.

I should point out that I have been in not only physical, bricks-and-mortar retail, but internet retail. I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests: I have a shareholding in teclan ltd.

Being in retail is incredibly tough. If my memories are as fresh as the experiences that we have heard about today, it is an extraordinarily demanding job, not just at Christmas, but all year round. I know that from people who are still experiencing the kinds of pressures that I did when I was in retail. I started off on the shop floor, part time, and worked my way up through the trainee management programme. The worst kind of job must be doing trainee management in retail, because people really have to do quite a lot as part of that.

We have heard stories about people being pressured to work all the time—not just at those times when people should be able to have time off legitimately, but throughout the working day. I am talking about people having meal breaks standing up because they do not have time to sit down to enjoy their breaks. There is also pressure in terms of pay versus hours. In many cases, the rates of pay are quite low, which is challenging. Where they are better, that is often negated by the fact that the hours that people are working for those fixed rates are longer than they would be required to work normally. Retail staff have to put up with a lot.

We are talking now about people working on Boxing day and Christmas eve. Often, when the shop is closing on Christmas eve, it is a hive of activity, getting things ready for Boxing day, and people work late into the night. From personal experience, I know that that could go on until the morning of Christmas day in some cases. I very much hope that that has changed for most people, but I know that it did happen in those days and am concerned that there are still those pressures out there today.

The hon. Member for Warrington North gave some clear examples of gross unfairness in the system and the pressures that people are put under, and particularly cases where people feel that their job is at risk because they have not complied with retailers’ requests to work. That is clearly unacceptable and should be considered unacceptable by everybody. The hon. Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone) was keen, and absolutely correct, to demonstrate that he has great empathy and sympathy with the people working under those conditions. He was also keen to show both sides; he brought in the issue of internet shopping and the pressures on the retailers and businesses to cope with that. He mentioned there being something of a conundrum with that issue.

Has the boat been missed? I contend that it has not, and that there is still a lot that can be done. I hope that we will hear more from the UK Government. I want to talk a bit about what is happening in Scotland, in order to challenge some perceptions about that. While I am talking about Scotland, may I pass on the apologies of my hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens), who was keen to take part in this debate but was unfortunately the victim of delayed travel arrangements? He apologises for not being here to those people who expected him to be.

The hon. Member for Morley and Outwood (Andrea Jenkyns) perhaps missed the point about people going shopping if they are not working. It is about choice. It is about what someone chooses to do with their family on the day; it is up to them whether they decide to go shopping to spend time with their family, or to stay home. She talked about her experience with Woolworths, Comet and Allsports; I bet that many retailers are glad that she did not work for them, given that they all went bust.

[Andrea Jenkyns]

I actually did not work for Woolworths, just for the record. I was just saying how they—

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (in the Chair)]

Order. The hon. Lady needs to be called before making an intervention.