Risk-based Exclusion

Alistair Carmichael Excerpts

Monday 13th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dame Karen Bradley]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. As I said, this is a balanced judgment; there is no right or wrong answer. I am persuaded by many arguments in favour of exclusion on “arrest on suspicion of”. However, on balance—given the job we do, the role we have and the potential for vexatious complaints—I feel that exclusion at the point of charge is right. I am not saying to the hon. Lady that we will not be accused of inconsistency; we very well might be accused of that—we regularly are.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

Did the right hon. Lady’s Committee give any consideration to the fact that what constitutes a charge, and what that means in terms of procedure, is different in Scotland from what it is south of the border? In England it is the initiation of criminal proceedings; in Scotland that decision is taken at a later stage by the procurator fiscal.

[Dame Karen Bradley]

The right hon. Gentleman makes the point I referred to earlier: there are different points in the judicial process at which a charge or arrest is made in the different legal systems of the United Kingdom. We have three different legal systems and charges can be brought at different times.

This is a balanced judgment—there is no right or wrong answer—on the basis of what is being proposed: to remove the right of a Member of Parliament to attend the Palace of Westminster, which is an ancient right we have held for hundreds of years. We are proposing to introduce something unique and different. Based on the evidence we heard and the advice we received from the Clerks and others, exclusion on charge feels like about the right point to make that decision.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

I accept and believe that it is important that we have some means of protecting people in this House. This is something that we have been trying to do, and the introduction of the ICGS has helped in that process, making people confident that there is a route through which they can complain and where they can have their best interests assured and safeguarded.

The problem with this motion is that it is simply unconstitutional. If we want to go down this route, we need to legislate for it. From time immemorial—actually since 1340—unmolested access to this House has been the right of every Member and that is for a very good reason. These privileges are not for us as individuals, but they are, as my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Sir Liam Fox) said, because of the 80,000 people whom we represent.

The ability to take away that right of attendance has always been held exclusively by the whole House. There is one exception I can think of to this and that is in 1648 with Pride’s purge—[Interruption.] We have some chuntering from the hon. Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant) as we so often do. Yes, the Speaker may name somebody and ask them to withdraw, but any suspension requires a motion—a divisible motion. We have expelled Members historically. We have suspended Members and continue to do so. That involves a vote of the whole House. If we expel a Member, that Member has the right then to stand for Parliament and be sent straight back again. That is a fundamental right not of us, but of the people who sent us here.

The John Wilkes case is famous. The House disliked an individual Member and expelled him, but he stood and he succeeded and he was returned. Politically, that is of great importance. In this instance, we are suggesting that a small committee will have the power to deny constituents representation. That is not within the power of this House, unless it acts as a whole. A small committee cannot deprive Members of the right of attendance. It is a right, as I have said, that goes back to 1340. The only way to override such ancient rights—this is the whole basis of our system of common law—is by legislation, not by motion.

[Mr Carmichael]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for giving way. He is of course right about the constitutionality of this, but we all know that, in practical terms in recent times, things have been done differently and that people have been excluded by agreement however obtained from the Whips. Surely what we have here is something that would be more transparent and would apply with equal measure to everyone?

[Sir Jacob Rees-Mogg]

The right hon. Gentleman says that a Member agreeing not to come in is the same as banning a Member from coming in. That is clearly not true.

It would not take very long to turn this motion into legislation, and that would be the proper constitutional way of doing this.

The proposal is, to my mind, entirely ineffective. We know that the powers of arrest of the Serjeant at Arms are pretty much phantasmagorical. I am sorry to embarrass the great Serjeant, who is sitting in his place. He is a most distinguished figure, but the idea that he could turn up and arrest somebody for failing to appear at a Select Committee is pretty much theatre rather than an effective threat. Our ancient powers of imprisoning are no longer there, so what happens when this person, excluded by a small cabal, decides to turn up? What are we going to do? We will have a vote of the whole House to expel him—the proper process in the first place.

Business of the House

Alistair Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I am sorry to hear about the situation with the hon. Lady’s constituent, and I thank my noble friend Lord Ahmad for the work he is doing. I know he is focused on the protection of British nationals, ensuring that people can be returned to the UK and offering them all assistance. I will certainly ensure that Ministers hear what the hon. Lady has said today. As with cases regarding hostages, I have helped facilitate some services being stepped up for Members of Parliament. I think I am perhaps not able to assist her in quite the way she wishes me to, but I will ensure that the Foreign Office has heard what she has said and, although I know that she is in contact with them already, I will raise her concerns with FCDO officials to see whether anything further can be done. I know she appreciates that these are very difficult circumstances.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

The House will recall that on 2 January the Prime Minister posted on X:

“I said that this government would clear the backlog of asylum decisions by the end of 2023. That’s exactly what we’ve done.”

In fact, it was pretty soon apparent that they had done nothing of the sort, with more than 4,500 legacy applications still awaiting a decision. Accordingly, I took the matter to the UK Statistics Authority to seek its guidance, and this morning I received this reply from its chair, Sir Robert Chote:

“The average member of the public is likely to interpret a claim to have ‘cleared a backlog’—especially when presented without context on social media—as meaning that it has been eliminated entirely”.

He goes on:

“This episode may affect public trust when the Government sets targets and announced whether they have been met in the other policy domains.”

Will the Leader of the House make time for the Prime Minister or the Home Secretary to come to the House and explain why, yet again, they have had their knuckles rapped for their use of statistics?

[Penny Mordaunt]

It is a good thing in our democracy that we do not mark our own homework. We have independent bodies that review statistics. We also have bodies that look at how statistics are presented, so that they are presented in the clearest possible way to members of the public. The right hon. Gentleman will know that massive progress has been made in that area. Off the top of my head—he will forgive me—the processing of applications in the Home Office has increased by 250%. It is now working through those applications at pace. However, I will certainly ensure that the Home Office hears what he has said, as its question time has not yet been tabled.

Business of the House

Alistair Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 19th October 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this important point. Organisations such as the National Trust will be subject to particular obligations, not least those placed on them by the Charity Commission. I can think of no reason why such a report should be withheld, particularly from the members of the National Trust. I will certainly write to the relevant Department to ensure that it has heard his comments today and ask that an official from that Department give my hon. Friend’s office advice about how he can rectify the situation.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

May we have a statement from the Transport Secretary to explain to the House the proposal that the search and rescue helicopter stationed in Shetland in my constituency should have its response times increased from 15 minutes to one hour? The blue-light services of towns and cities would never be treated like that, so why should islanders be treated differently?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising what sounds like a concerning matter. I shall certainly make sure that the Secretary of State has heard what he has said this morning. I think this is a timely matter, so if the right hon. Gentleman keeps me posted, I shall ensure that the Department is in touch with his office.

Business of the House

Alistair Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 20th July 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I am sure we all join my hon. Friend in thanking Rick and Gail for their incredible work for her constituents over many decades. She is right to praise the contribution that volunteers make to our communities, and the Government also value that, which was one of the driving forces behind the Points of Light award. If my hon. Friend applies for a debate, I am sure that it would be well attended, with lots of pats on backs for the many thousands of volunteers who do such great work in their communities day in, day out.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

As we go into recess, I have been struck by the number of right hon. and hon. Members who have told me that they intend to take their summer holidays in Orkney and Shetland this year. I am sure that, like the rest of the world, they are attracted by our breathtaking scenery, our wildlife, our birdlife, our world heritage sites and our quality local food and drink offering. I fear that we are also attractive to MPs because in so many parts of the Northern Isles, they will not be bothered by their mobile phone ringing. It is great for holidaying MPs, but it is a bit of a pain for the rest of us, so when we come back in September, can we have an update from her ministerial colleagues on the shared rural network scheme?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I congratulate the right hon. Member on providing a wonderful advert for any Members who are not planning on holidaying in his constituency and reasons why they should. He raises a serious matter, and I will certainly ensure that the two Departments that are most relevant to this have heard what he said.

Business of the House

Alistair Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 8th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

I remind the House of my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests. Might we have a debate in Government time, to be answered by a Treasury Minister, on the budget available for future farming support payments? The current settlement runs only until 2024. The Leader of the House will know that agriculture, of all industries, needs long-term certainty, especially as we redesign the systems for delivering that mechanism. The Government talk a very good game about the importance of farmers and crofters in our food security, but we need to hear from the Treasury whether they will put their money where their mouth is.

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising that important matter. He will have heard the announcement that the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs made this week with regard to all aspects of rural life. Clearly, in arriving at that plan, she has been speaking frequently with the Treasury. I shall make sure that both she and the Treasury have heard the right hon. Gentleman’s remarks.

Business of the House

Alistair Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 16th March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I am always keen to hear suggestions for innovation from Members, and I shall certainly look at that proposal. I remind Members that these are ultimately matters for the House, but I have heard what my right hon. Friend has said. If he would like to come and talk to me about his ideas, I would be very happy to see him.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

May I renew my call for a debate or statement in relation to the operation of the alternative fuel payment scheme? I have heard from no fewer than 126 constituents who use electricity to heat their homes. Almost half of them have received the payment, and half of them have not. The Government have said that they will not claw back payments that have been made incorrectly in these circumstances, so it seems to be utterly random whether someone gets the money or not. At the end of the day, it is also exceptionally unfair.

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising this issue again. My office has spoken to the Department about this matter on a number of occasions. I will do so again after this session, and I will also ask that a Minister contact the right hon. Gentleman’s office.

Business of the House

Alistair Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 2nd March 2023 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I would first point out that it is a good week to say that WhatsApp is secretive. This is deeply regrettable, I think. I would just hope that, on such serious matters as the covid inquiry, the Westminster bubble can rise to the challenge of dealing with this in the manner in which it deserves to be approached.

My hon. Friend will know that the Cabinet Office has very clear policies about WhatsApp messages—what can be decided and how those things are captured and stored—and my understanding is that people’s WhatsApp messages have been captured, and are being captured, for that covid inquiry.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

By the time that we come to deal with the alternative fuel payment pass-through requirement regulations on Tuesday, can the Leader of the House assure me that the Minister will be able to answer the very basic questions that my constituents are asking?

The payments started landing last week, and people who did not expect to get them are getting them, while people who are obviously entitled to them are not. I am being inundated with questions, with people asking me whether that money will be clawed back. They will want answers to those questions. They should have had them by now, but will they at least get them next Tuesday?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that important question, and I will ensure that the Secretary of State has heard what he has said today. Anticipating this type of question, I did look at what was on gov.uk, and if one searches for “help with your fuel bills”, there is quite a comprehensive set of answers on there, including for this new scheme. However, if there are specifics that he needs in a timely way, before he has a chance to speak to the Secretary of State directly, I ask him to please let me know, and I will do my best to ensure that he gets answers.

Business of the House

Alistair Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 3rd November 2022 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising yet again this very important issue. He is right that there have been 13 meetings since 21 July. The Government continue to support Peel Group to work with local leaders to find the solution that will benefit local people and, critically, the region’s economy. This is incredibly important. That is why we have the regional airport and ground operations support scheme—we are investing £161 million in these facilities because they are vital to the local economy. My hon. Friend has done everything within his gift to get the right outcome, from securing Adjournment debates to tabling urgent questions, with a huge amount of correspondence and pressure on all parties, and I congratulate him on that. I understand how frustrating it is for him to watch a potential solution not being seized. I urge him to continue in his efforts, and he has the full support of the Government in doing so.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

May I take the Leader of the House back to the answer she has given to a number of Members, including her hon. Friends the Members for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) and for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton)? Since we heard the Home Secretary’s statement on Monday, we have seen reports of a bus full of asylum seekers being dumped at Victoria station. The Guardian today reports that there have been incidents of rape and sexual abuse of children in the asylum system. The Immigration Minister last night on television appeared to accept that Manston was not currently operating legally, in contradiction of what the Home Secretary told the House on Monday. Surely we need a debate on this in Government time. We know that the Government control the business of the House, but that is a privilege not to be abused, and when a Department is failing as badly as the Home Office is at the moment, it should be possible for the Government to make time for the House to examine what is happening.

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman and other hon. Members for raising these issues. I know that people are concerned about a system under great pressure. They will want to ensure that refugees are being treated with dignity and that the provision that is needed for those people is in place. He will know that the system is under great pressure. He will also know that the Government and the people of this country are incredibly compassionate and have a fantastic track record of supporting refugees, as in the work we did together on extracting high-needs lone children from camps in Syria and elsewhere, and on the recent scheme for Ukrainian refugees, whom many hon. Members and their constituents are supporting in their homes. We know what good looks like. The situation is that the system is under immense pressure, and we have to find solutions. The Government will bring forward some solutions and I hope that all hon. Members will consider and support those motions.

Replacement of the Chancellor of the Exchequer

Alistair Carmichael Excerpts

Monday 17th October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

The hon. Lady will want to hear from the Chancellor, because she will be able to ask him the precise questions that are of interest to her constituents. This Government have always protected people against the cost of living, and we have always protected the most vulnerable in our society. We will continue to do that.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

The Leader of the House and her colleagues do not have a monopoly on understanding what it is to take difficult decisions in the national interest. In 2010, my colleagues and I entered Government and took many difficult decisions for which we paid a political price. We did that because it was in the national interest. We did it on the advice of the Bank of England, and we set up the Office for Budget Responsibility. The Prime Minister was also part of that Government. At what point did she think it was no longer necessary to listen to the Bank of England and the OBR?

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising the issues we faced in 2010. People will remember the note outlining that there was no money left. What is less well understood is the scorched earth policy accompanying it, which tied the incoming Government into all kinds of contractual difficulties to make their job so much harder. That is why those on the Opposition Benches should never be allowed near Government. The Chancellor will be along shortly to answer questions about the OBR.

Business of the House

Alistair Carmichael Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2022 Commons Chamber

[Penny Mordaunt]

My hon. Friend is an assiduous campaigner on this issue, and I know that he has raised it many times. There are commercial decisions, which sit with the owners, about what their plans are, but I know that he is doing everything within his power to ensure a good outcome for his local constituents, and I am at his disposal if there is anything I can do to assist him in that.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

In the absence of today’s cancelled debate, will the Leader of the House speak to her colleagues in the Home Office about restoring the Home Office hub that we previously had in Portcullis House? The biggest thief of time in my office is when caseworkers have to listen to a message on the helpline saying that there are more than five people waiting ahead of them. The Home Office has written to tell us that it will have a series of regional walk-in initiatives. Can she perhaps explain to the Home Office that the nearest one to my constituency is in Aberdeen, and that it will only be a walk-in service when my caseworkers can walk on water? They do brilliant things, but I fear that is still a little bit beyond them.

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising that point. My office has already had some discussions with the Home Office about what service it can provide to hon. Members, which is vital. Rather than being a burden on it, Members of Parliament can be of great assistance in getting cases resolved, so I will happily do that.