Yemen

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Thursday 28th February 2019 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

I do not think so. Actually, the parties are still discussing prisoners, but the fact that they are talking—through the UN envoy—is an advance on where we were. It is difficult, even impossible, to urge patience on the people about whom the right hon. Gentleman spoke so eloquently, but this will be brought to an end only by that gradual development of confidence between the parties—confidence that is so delicate at the moment.

We do what we can. The right hon. Gentleman rightly says that the Foreign Secretary is there this week with those involved in the coalition. I was there just last week. I spoke to the Government of Yemen in Riyadh, to the Saudi Government, to the UAE and to Bahrain. Ministers are constantly engaged in what we can do. We speak to those who have some opportunity to influence the Houthi as well—we do not speak directly, but we try to influence them. We raise all the issues that he did about the misery and the suffering of people. There is no part of this conflict that justifies the suffering of people, but we are constantly trying to do this, and we work through agencies to do so.

The right hon. Gentleman and the House can be sure that our political efforts will always be designed to support the work of the UN special envoy and to encourage progress. In conflict, as we know, there is weariness. It must be clear to all the parties that there is no military solution, but people who have established positions, including those involved in the coalition, want to make sure that Yemen does not become ungoverned space—a Beirut in Sana’a with Hezbollah available in empty space to conduct actions against Saudi Arabia—and we want to make sure that the Yemeni people can bring forward a political process. We are working on all this while also providing the economic and humanitarian aid he described. We will continue to do so.

[Alison Thewliss]

I thank the Minister for his efforts in this space. I am aware that Mark Lowcock, the UN relief co-ordinator, prior to the pledging conference, met women’s groups in Yemen. Can he tell me any more about what is being done to reach women in Yemen?

[Alistair Burt]

I remember some years ago—the right hon. Gentleman may remember as well—when we had that interlude after Ali Abdullah Saleh, and we looked at the national dialogue and at women’s opportunities in Yemen. It is a shorthand, but it is true: men cause wars and women finish them. The engagement of the women of Yemen will be particularly helpful. I have no doubt that when the political process gets going, they will be a key part.

I have one more minute and, with apologies to the House, will conclude simply by saying that the House can be assured that, as far as the Foreign Secretary and I are concerned, this issue is a top priority—the top priority—in the Foreign Office and the Department for International Development, and it will remain so. We will continue to apply ourselves as much as possible.

With the House’s indulgence and just a few seconds left, I want to refer to the fact that this is Sir David Natzler’s last day in office. [Interruption.] I am sorry, David—you look as if you do not want to hear it all again, but allow me. We go back a long way. Sir David refereed me a number of times in an all-party parliamentary group. We have known each other well over many years. The plaudits he received in the House from those much more eminent than I am a few weeks ago said it all about his devotion to the House of Commons and the work he has done on the public’s behalf. Speaking personally, I will miss him, and I am sure that the House will miss him and the work that he has done. We know that, both through him and those he represents in giving the best service to the House of Commons, we have been richly and well served. We wish him well in the future. Thank you, David.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Monday 7th January 2019 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

The hon. Gentleman makes his own point very well. Anyone looking at these situations objectively, regardless of the politics of the situation and the complexities of what is happening in the middle east, will see a mother and her child and wonder how on earth this can be going on, particularly in a situation where, under Iranian law and recognising Iran’s role and its legal system, there is an opportunity to take a course of action that could change this perception of Iran. That is something that we hope might now strike Iran.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

I thank the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq) for her diligence in bringing her constituent’s case to the House again. I would like to pass on the solidarity of my constituents who have been in touch with me to Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and her family; they often share their concerns. I know that the Minister will be aware of the situation in Iran, so may I ask him to speak to his colleagues in the Home Office? I have many Iranian constituents who are seeking some form of leave to be in the United Kingdom and they often find that it is very much delayed. Given the significance of the FCO’s advice to people travelling to Iran, will he ensure that his colleagues in the Home Office are aware of this and take it into account in their decision making?

[Alistair Burt]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady and her constituents, and indeed to the constituents of the many hon. Members who have written to their MPs and, through them, to me about the circumstances of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe to ensure that she is never forgotten by anyone. I will certainly bring the hon. Lady’s points about the Home Office directly to my colleagues.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Wednesday 10th October 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

We have always been clear, first, that there is no military solution in Yemen, and secondly, that the port has to be kept open. There should not be action in relation to the port, either by those who might have mined the approaches to it or those who might seek to attack it, because humanitarian access remains crucial. Yemen is a tragedy of significant proportions, as the right hon. Gentleman knows. We are doing everything we can to find the political solution to end the conflict.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

One of the major issues is access to finance and the soaring cost of basic commodities in Yemen. The UN special envoy, Martin Griffiths, has said that the best way to resolve Yemen’s humanitarian crisis is to fix the economy and stem a slide in the riyal. Are the UK Government participating in action on that matter?

[Alistair Burt]

Since July, the riyal has depreciated by some 20%. That, as the hon. Lady says, is putting up the prices of basic foodstuffs, which had already increased in recent years. Of course, in a war economy, people have made money: the Houthi have taxed goods and taken money from people instead of supplying goods. We are doing what we can to support the riyal, because some stability in the currency is essential. The UK is supporting that process, too.

Yemen

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Tuesday 11th September 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for the Middle East (Alistair Burt)]

I thank all colleagues who have taken part in this excellent debate. It has mostly been a fair illustration of the complexities and difficulties of this conflict, which not a single person in the House wants to see continue. I think the source of some of the frustration we express is that we would like a simple answer that just ends it all, but there is not one. I understand the frustration that that brings.

There is a legitimate cause, which is to resist an insurgency, and there is a reason, which is to support an ally under fire from missiles. There are regional conflicts over which the events in Yemen have an influence. There are unimaginably painful events that challenge the UK Government, who are doing all they believe they can to bring the conflict to an end, and there is criticism of all parties to the conflict. The killing of children can never be justified—however it occurs, it cannot be right—so the catalyst for this debate, so ably led by the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen Twigg), is clear. The only real issue is how to bring it to an end and what the UK can do.

However grateful I am, I beg colleagues not to load my shoulders with what I do not deserve. There are, fortunately, many peacemakers; my role, through the UK Government, is to encourage and support them. I cannot deliver to the House a simple answer or give the political answer I know some colleagues believe would simply end it all—and I do not intend to do so—but before I deal with some of the issues raised, I will briefly run through the debate.

The hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby, the Chair of the International Development Committee, gave a powerful speech covering all the background, with which the House, after too long, is now sadly familiar. I will answer many of his questions during my remarks, but to come to the long term right at the beginning, of course the UK has a long-term interest in supporting Yemen. We did so before the conflict. It was Gordon Brown who in 2009, as part of Friends of Yemen, sought further development in Yemen—a process followed through the UN for some years before the conflict broke out. So certainly we will support Yemen in the long term.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) was harsh on us, but that harshness came from a genuine desire for peace and his upset with what he sees in Yemen. The right hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) gave a powerful speech—no one can talk about the death of children without the emotion she rightly brought to it—and I will answer her three questions in due course. My hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat) spoke of regional issues, ably put the conflict into context and expressed the risks he believed the coalition was taking, even if it had a rightful cause.

The right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) spoke movingly about Yemen as only he can—we have grown used to his emotion in speaking about the country of his birth and his hopes for the future. The hon. Member for Edinburgh West (Christine Jardine) wants the war to come to an end—as we all do—and set out clearly why, and my hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Aldershot (Leo Docherty) gave a thoughtful speech in which his experience of conflict in the region came through very well. He was neither sentimental nor unsympathetic, and I think he told it as it was. The hon. Member for Glasgow Central (Alison Thewliss) trod understandable ground given the Scottish National party’s view on arms sales and spoke about it, with her usual power and distinction, as the fundamental issue in this complex conflict.

My hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) spoke about Iran and its involvement. Iran is a complex state with a complex authority structure and a country with which I am personally engaged in seeking to persuade it that its activities in Yemen should change and that if they did, the risks to it would diminish, and who knows what doors might be open to it. That is what diplomacy is all about. My hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Crispin Blunt), with his great experience as a former Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, set out the context of the war, which is not simple, and related it not just to the region itself but to the post-2011 timescale and all that that means.

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby for securing this opportunity to discuss the humanitarian crisis in Yemen, and I know from personal experience that, as Chair of the International Development Committee, he has a deep knowledge of the situation. It is important for us all to be mindful of the background to the current conflict, but I will be brief as it has been covered. The causes of the conflict are numerous and complex. Since unification in 1990, Yemen has suffered internal power struggles, unrest and terrorist attacks. After a year of protests in 2011, the 33-year rule of Ali Abdullah Saleh transferred to President Hadi as part of a unity Government brokered with regional support. A national dialogue process began that offered an opportunity for a democratic future—I remember it well.

Tragically, that opportunity was lost when the Houthi insurgency movement, which claimed to have been excluded from the national dialogue process but was encouraged by the ousted Ali Abdullah Saleh, sought to take power through violence. In September 2014, Houthi rebels took the capital by force, prompting President Hadi to flee to the southern city of Aden. The Houthis then began advancing on the south of the country. President Hadi, as the internationally recognised leader of the legitimate Government of Yemen, requested military help from the Saudi-led coalition. The conflict between the Government of Yemen, backed by the coalition, and the Houthis and their allies has so far lasted three years.

The position when President Hadi was forced to flee was potentially disastrous. At that moment, there was a clear risk that the country would fall into the hands of forces avowedly hostile to Saudi Arabia, which shares with Yemen an 800-mile border that is vulnerable and porous. It was against that background that the Saudis and their allies were requested by President Hadi to intervene in March 2015, a decision that was not only justified but legally sound. Saudi Arabia and its allies are responding to a crisis that was forced on them and that poses a grave threat to international peace and security. The Houthis have frequently fired mortar bombs and rockets into Saudi territory, including Scud missiles.

Let me directly address what the Government have been doing to bring the conflict to a resolution—which is what we all want—and to alleviate the suffering of the Yemeni people. We continue to urge all parties to the conflict to do everything possible to protect civilians and to demonstrate their commitment to international law. That brings me, first, to the desperate events of the attack on the bus. One of the reasons for our belief that it is still possible to continue arms sales to an ally which is under attack is our belief in the efforts being made by the coalition to avoid the tragedy of the attack that led to the death of children on the bus. Let me quote what was said about it by the Joint Incidents Assessment Team. As one or two other Members have mentioned, this is deeply unusual in the context of the middle east.

The coalition has said that every civilian death is a painful tragedy, and it is always the first to investigate these incidents so that it can reduce future risk whenever possible.

On the attack itself, the coalition said:

“With regard to the bus incident, the JIAT has concluded that there were mistakes made in abiding by the rules of engagement. Based upon that, the Command of the Coalition would like to express regret for these mistakes, and offers its condolences and solidarity with the families of the victims”.

In the context of the deaths of children, I well understand how that must sound, but it is unusual in the wider context. That is what gives us the sense that the coalition is doing all that it can not to target civilians unnecessarily and not to target children, but to do what it can in a military context to avoid such events.

We were deeply concerned by the tragic incidents of 2, 9 and 23 August in which so many Yemenis were killed. On 16 August, the Foreign Secretary spoke to the Saudi Foreign Minister and pressed for a quick and transparent investigation. On 1 September, the coalition announced the outcome of that investigation, as I have just set out. We welcome that acknowledgement and the steps that the coalition intends to take.

On 2 September, Her Majesty’s Government issued a statement that reiterated our concerns, and our appreciation of the speed of the coalition’s investigation of the 9 August incident. We encouraged the coalition to publish the outcomes of its investigation of the 23 August incident as soon as possible; we called for clarification of the circumstances of the incident of 2 August, for which responsibility is still unclear; and we condemned the Houthi attacks against commercial shipping in the Red sea, as well as the regular missile strikes against civilian targets in Saudi Arabia that have been launched by the Houthis with Iranian support.

I raised those matters with the Emirati Minister of State, Dr Gargash, on 3 September, with the Saudi Foreign Minister on 4 September, and with the Saudi Ambassador to London on 6 September. We have done all that we can, in relation to those incidents, to express the concern that has been expressed by the House and to encourage the coalition to do all that it can to avoid them in the future.

[Alison Thewliss]

The Yemen Data Project has counted more than 16,000 air raids—one every 90 minutes—over the past three years. More than 5,000 have involved non-military targets. What does the Minister believe has changed in the case of the most recent attacks? There has been a consistent pattern of hitting civilian targets indiscriminately.

[Alistair Burt]

As has been made clear during the debate, there is a war going on, in which the Government of Yemen have been usurped and those who are seeking to push back an insurgency are having to do it by military means because of the forces that they are facing.

Let me say a little more about the alleged breaches of international humanitarian law, because the issue is understandably vital to what the UK believes. We are, of course, aware of reports of alleged violation of that law, and we take them very seriously. It is important for all sides to conduct thorough and conclusive investigations of incidents in which it is alleged that international humanitarian law has been breached. As I have just indicated, we regularly raise the importance of compliance with the Saudi Arabia Government and other members of the military.

Saudi Arabia has publicly stated that it is investigating reports of alleged violations and that lessons will be acted upon. The key test for our continued arms exports in relation to international humanitarian law is whether there is a clear risk that those items subject to a licence might be used in serious violations of international humanitarian law. That situation is kept under careful and continued review. If the efforts of the coalition were not made, that would certainly be breached, but it is not, and that is why we believe as we do.

However, equally we are appalled by the many ballistic missile attacks the Houthis have launched in Saudi Arabia in recent months. There have been seven long-range ballistic missile attacks on Riyadh, indiscriminately, from March to August. The coalition claims that the Houthis have fired 190 ballistic missiles at the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia since the start of hostilities, and the Saudis have also recorded a number of smaller strikes on the KSA—mortars, artillery and so forth—with the total number currently standing at 67,000 strikes. That is not always given the prominence it needs to have.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Tuesday 4th September 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

8. If he will make it his policy to suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia.

[The Minister for the Middle East (Alistair Burt)]

We assess arms exports to Saudi Arabia against strict criteria. The key test is whether there is a clear risk that the items might be used in the commission of a serious violation of international humanitarian law. We take this very seriously and keep licensing decisions under careful review.

[Alison Thewliss]

The New York Times reports today that Spain has heeded the United Nations Human Rights Council’s group of eminent experts on Yemen and ceased its sales of arms to Saudi Arabia for fear that they might be used in Yemen. This decision was taken following the publication of the report, which also expressed serious concern about the independence of the Joint Incidents Assessments Team. How many children in Yemen have to be blown to pieces on a bus before we cease our arms sales to Saudi Arabia?

[Alistair Burt]

That incident, and the deaths of any civilians, particularly children, caught up in a conflict are always dreadful. The most important thing is to bring the conflict to an end. We assess our arms sales on a case-by-case basis. I indicated earlier that the coalition was engaged in Yemen to try to reverse an insurgency. That insurgency is now firing missiles at civilian targets and, accordingly, I do not think that the political justification to withdraw arms sales to Saudi Arabia is made, but it is essential that international humanitarian law is adhered to and that there are no such further incidents.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Wednesday 4th July 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss]

T2. Reuters has reported that fighting in Hodeidah has forced around 2,000 high school students to take a dangerous six-hour journey across mountains to sit their exams in Sana’a, but more than 2 million children are reported to be out of school in Yemen, and the conflict is having a profound effect on their education. What are the Government doing to end the conflict?

[Alistair Burt]

We are giving every support to the work of the UN special envoy, Martin Griffiths, who, almost as we speak, is in Sana’a and talking to the coalition parties. Only through this UN negotiation might we get a resolution of the conflict.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Tuesday 15th May 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

The UNESCO world heritage site of Socotra has reportedly become the latest front in the war in Yemen, with Saudi troops landing there in response to the United Arab Emirates apparently occupying the island. What is the Minister going to do to protect that unique and special environment and its people?

[Alistair Burt]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her question, but I would advise the House to be a little cautious about some of the reports coming out in relation to Socotra. I spoke just this week to the Foreign Affairs Deputy Minister of the United Arab Emirates, and the circumstances on the allegations being made are not particularly clear at present, but I can reassure the hon. Lady that we will be able to make a further statement about that in due course.

UK Relations: Saudi Arabia

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Wednesday 7th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that matter. The purpose of parliamentary visits, in which many Members engage, is to get an opportunity to see the context of a country. It is not about being given a grand tour of easy options, but about getting the chance to ask difficult questions. In my experience, Members of Parliament take that opportunity fully. To be able to observe, as my hon. Friend has, some of the palpable changes in where women are going and to speak to women now involved in culture, music and business, is to see where the country intends to take itself, and a woman’s voice in where it is going is an important one and increasingly heard.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

My constituents, from Garnethill to Strathbungo and Dumbreck to Toryglen, have all been emailing me with deep concerns over the hospitality being afforded to the Saudi royalty against the backdrop of children regularly killed by the bombs that we are selling them. What more are the Government doing to ensure that the Saudis carry out the full implementation of the UN humanitarian response plan? Children in Yemen are dying far, far too frequently every single day and Yemen just cannot wait.

[Alistair Burt]

I agree with the hon. Lady—no, of course, Yemen cannot wait. As I said earlier, if I believed for a moment that asking one party to the conflict simply to stop its activities would bring an end to it, then we would all advocate that solution, but I do not believe that that is the case. There must be a negotiated end; it should come as quickly as possible, and we have been pressing for that for some considerable time. In the meantime, we are doing everything we can to ease the humanitarian situation, and we have seen an easing of restrictions, particularly since the visits of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Development to Djibouti and to Riyadh in December, where she was able to explain to the coalition exactly what the international community was doing to seek to protect them. That led to an easing of the restrictions straight away, but nothing will truly help the people of Yemen until the conflict comes to an end. On that, she, her constituents and all the rest of us are absolutely right.

Yemen

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Thursday 30th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

I thank the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell) for securing the debate. I agree with much of what he said —his expertise on the matter is valuable. I also agree with much that the shadow Foreign Secretary said. I pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), who is steadfast in his work with the all-party parliamentary group on Yemen, and to the aid agencies that are working in circumstances that are incredibly difficult both for their staff and for the people they are working with in Yemen.

The right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield mentioned the difficulties in reporting from Yemen, and I rely heavily on some of the first-hand testimony coming through from Twitter, which seems a reasonable way of getting information out of the country. I mentioned the case of Hisham al-Omeisy in a letter to the Government. He was taken by the Houthis on 12 August 2017 and has yet to be seen again. I ask the Government to do all they can to try to secure the safety of journalists in Yemen.

Today I am missing the opening of the new Silverdale nursery in Dalmarnock. The nursery has 140 places for children under five and, while thinking about Yemen, it struck me that if 140 children in Dalmarnock were to die today, we would do something about it. If they were to die tomorrow, we would do something about it. Some 130 under-fives are dying every day in Yemen. If that were happening in this country, we would do something about it urgently and seriously. We would not have our own children dying from the very preventable cause of extreme malnutrition and disease, which take hold so easily when children do not have the food and resilience they need.

One child is dying every 10 minutes in Yemen. It is shocking even to think of the number who have died since the start of this debate. We cannot accept that any longer; it has been going on for far, far too long, and we have a global responsibility to children, wherever they are, to make sure that they are safe, that they are fed and that they will live a happy and healthy life. Anything we can do to that end we must do urgently.

For the children who survive, the impact will be lasting. Millions of children are, and have been, out of school. They do not have a nursery to go to. They are living with stunting, a lifelong condition that will affect their growth and development, including their cognitive development, throughout the rest of their lives. In 2012, UNICEF was already warning of stunting, saying that 58% of children under five were stunted, and that was before this latest conflict. That is a generation being left with a life-limiting condition that we could do more to prevent.

The International Committee of the Red Cross reported yesterday that it had purchased 750,000 litres of fuel to ensure that the water pumps in Hodeidah and Taiz can operate. Those pumps will last only a month on that fuel. The ICRC also reports that nine other cities do not have sufficient fuel to run their water supplies, which is a critical situation given that Yemen has already experienced one of the largest cholera epidemics in history, which has already left about 2,000 people dead. Although the outbreak seems to be on the wane, without water and access to appropriate sanitation it will almost certainly come back. As the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield mentioned, diphtheria, a very preventable disease that we do not even see here, is also taking hold. So I ask the Minister—I know he will do his best on this—to tell us what the Government are doing to ensure that fuel gets into the country, because without it the petrol pumps will run dry, which will have a knock-on effect on food prices.

Aid very much needs to get in, and aid agencies say so, but all agencies are also stressing the absolute necessity of getting commercial goods in. The scarcity and fuel prices mean that prices are high, and even where there is food people cannot afford to feed themselves. They do not know where their next meal is coming from. It must be incredibly heartbreaking for people to be able to see food on a shelf but not be able to afford to buy it to feed their family. We must bear in mind that many employees in Yemen have not been paid for some time—over a year in some cases at least. Médecins sans Frontières reported in October that 1.2 million Yemeni civil servants have received little to no salary for more than a year. MSF pays the salaries of 1,200 public health staff that it is using in its clinics, but clearly that is not enough by any manner of means. If the doctors trying to treat the people who are starving have no money to feed themselves either, the situation is a disaster. I urge Ministers to consider what else they can do to get more money in to allow staff to be paid, to get the economy restarted and to make sure people have something to live on.

I also urge, as I have urged following previous statements, that we need to see aid getting into the country in the first place, so the blockade must be removed as soon as possible. But that aid also needs to be able to travel around Yemen, and the border posts, the visas and the difficulties the aid agencies are facing in getting around the country are preventing that flow of aid. It is also clear that the different factions in the conflict are using the system as a means of diverting aid to their own people, so that aid that might be intended to go to one place of desperate need is being diverted. That is not to say that people there might not need it, because I am sure they do, but it is being diverted from the people who need to get it. We need to make sure that it can get through to those who need it and that it is appropriately used when it gets there. I urge Ministers to do anything they can to make sure that aid convoys going through the country can actually get to where they need to be.

Finally, I wish to touch on the issue of arms sales, because they are a crucial part of the influence and leverage our country has in this conflict. Sadly, the communiqué that came out of the Quint meeting concentrated far, far more on weapons and the security situation, which I know and appreciate is difficult, than on the humanitarian situation and the need to get goods in through the ports. I am sure the 25 aid agencies that contacted the Foreign Secretary in their open letter will feel very let down by that, and I echo the shadow Foreign Secretary’s comments about how the attendance list of that meeting could have been broader. Efforts need to be made to get more people from Yemen—from civil society and from organisations working there on the ground—involved in such things. In addition, if we look at the picture from the meeting, we note that there may be one woman at the back of the photograph, but women are not being included in this process. We need women as part of the process to help make the peace and make it sustainable.

[Alistair Burt]

When the national dialogue process was going on—I was out in Yemen for that—we spoke to women and young people who had not been part of the governance process. The national dialogue was giving them an opportunity, but the Houthi involvement and the conflict killed that opportunity. Otherwise, there would have been more women involved—that, I think, is what some of the people are fighting for.

[Alison Thewliss]

I absolutely appreciate that, and the testimony I heard from some of the aid agencies and women’s organisations that came to visit, meeting the right hon. Member for Leicester East and I some time ago, reflected that. They want to be part of the process. Those organisations do exist, and the Government must keep reaching out to them and keep involving them in that process. If we are to get a lasting peace, it must be a lasting peace for all the people of Yemen; it must be as wide as possible, and the attendance must include those organisations.

We lose a huge amount of credibility in this whole discussion, and we cannot be a broker for peace, while we are involved in arming a side in the conflict. We are complicit in what happens. The Minister mentioned 318 incidents of concern, and he may wish to clarify that. How many more incidents are acceptable to the Government, given that 318 incidents of concern have been picked up by the people involved and the armed forces on the ground in Yemen? That is a huge amount of “concern” to have. The amount of aid that has gone in is welcome, and it is good. The Minister will correct me if I am wrong, but I believe we have put in £202 million in aid since 2015, which is dwarfed by the £4.6 billion in arms sales. A huge amount of money is going into producing absolute brutality and desperation on the ground. If we want the country to be a success, we should be putting all the money and all the effort into rebuilding it, not into destroying what little is still there.

Yemen

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Monday 20th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

On my right hon. Friend’s last point, it is for the very reason that we wish to prevent the concerns raised by agencies and the UN from coming to fruition that we are bending all our efforts to working with those who have put on restrictions to the ports in order to preserve their safety and prevent arms getting through to make sure that humanitarian access is indeed given. He is right to raise these concerns, which are shared by the whole House. That is giving the United Kingdom Government every extra incentive, as if we needed any, to try to continue to do all we can to raise those issues with those who fear for their own safety to make sure that they are not putting others at risk in the manner described by so many agencies.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

I very much agree with the comments of the hon. Member for Leeds North East (Fabian Hamilton) and the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell). I thank the Minister for giving me advance sight of the statement. I am glad to hear that there is dialogue, but we need to hear an awful lot more in this House about actions.

I, too, understand the difficulties facing the Saudis regarding the attack on Riyadh, which of course we also condemn. There needs to be a recognition of the two sides to this conflict—at least two, if one counts al-Qaeda. We know about the sophisticated weaponry that the Saudis have because the UK sold it to them. The £155 million in aid that the Minister talks about is dwarfed by the £3.8 billion in arms sales to Saudi Arabia. There are daily reports of Yemeni civilians on the ground being hit by Saudi airstrikes. Will he speak a little more about those?

Aid agencies have reported for years the difficulties of getting aid into Yemen and across Yemen, including the difficulties involved in getting visas and moving goods and people around the country. Only recently, I heard from the head of Islamic Relief. When he visited to see how the organisation’s projects were going, he was unable to travel around the country because of the visa system that is in operation.

Despite the UN verification and inspection mechanism, Save the Children reports that 13 ships carrying vital humanitarian aid were denied entry to Yemen. What are the UK Government doing to get air and sea ports open, especially when those aid convoys are quite clearly aid convoys and they do not contain missiles? It is fine to say that the Government are providing funding, but without access and without workers on the ground who can deliver it, it is almost meaningless.

The population of Yemen are deliberately being starved by the country’s neighbours, which are key allies of the UK. Today is International Children’s Day. Save the Children reports that 130 children in Yemen will die today, tomorrow, the next day and each day until this conflict ends. Will the Minister tell us how he will stop this?

[Alistair Burt]

Again, I come first to the hon. Lady’s last point: how will this conflict come to an end? This conflict will come to an end when both sides are brought together by people who make it clear that there is no military solution to it, and that there has to be a political one. That is what the United Kingdom has sought to do for many months, through meetings with appropriate parties here in London, in New York and in the region. We share her frustrations because, like others, we can see the impact.

I will comment on one or two of the hon. Lady’s other perfectly proper remarks. First, the key test for our continued arms exports to Saudi Arabia in relation to international humanitarian law is whether there is a clear risk that the items that are subject to the licence might be used in a serious violation of international humanitarian law. That situation is kept under careful and continual review, and, like all other aspects of the United Kingdom’s arms control policy, it is subject to rigorous examination here and by the law.

Secondly, the hon. Lady is right to raise the question of access, as we have done. The restrictions on access do not mean that our work now is meaningless, as she indicated; I am sure that she does not mean that. We are working through partners who are there on the ground, but distribution is, of course, harder. That is the case not just in coalition-controlled areas, but in Houthi-controlled areas; I have to remind the House that there are two sides to this.

Lastly, I will deal again with the subject of arms exports, because I know that it is fundamental. I related this to the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson) the other week, and I shall do the same thing again; I do not mean to be harsh about it. If we thought that our not sending support to our allies—who are facing attacks on their own soil, from missiles imported into ungoverned space, where they are trying to support an elected Government against the insurgency—would send the right signal in the region and would prove to be of any use, it would be a course of action, but I do not believe that that is the case. I do not believe that if we were to take that action, it would not fundamentally undermine a number of other regional issues and make our allies wonder, when they faced an attack on their Heathrow, whether we were making the right judgments. We have to pursue other means of bringing the conflict to an end, and that is what we seek to do.

Saudi Arabia: Anticipated Executions

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Monday 17th July 2017 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

I understand the force with which the hon. Gentleman speaks. It is difficult always to convey to colleagues in the House exactly what the ambassador or the Prime Minister say in their conversations to convey, in a different form, exactly the same degree of force and concern that the hon. Gentleman conveys so eloquently.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

How far does the Minister really believe the UK’s influence extends over Saudi Arabia? If the UK Government’s supposed leverage cannot stop the Saudi Government beheading their citizens, why does he believe it is appropriate for the UK to continue to license the sale of arms to that country?

[Alistair Burt]

It is impossible to give a simple answer to the question of how much influence one state exerts on another. Let me point to a long-standing relationship with Saudi Arabia. It is a long-standing relationship on security and intelligence matters, which has acted in our interests and for the safety of our citizens. We have a common approach to dealing with not only terror and extremism, but changes in Saudi society over a period of time. As I say, it is not for those outside to take credit for internal changes. This is a continued dialogue with a state that we have known for a long time, but one that is still relatively new and coming to terms with the modern world. I think the relationship is the right one, but we will continue to press for the best values.

Yemen

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Wednesday 26th October 2016 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)]

I apologise to the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) for not being in the Chamber at the beginning of her remarks.

I am grateful to have the opportunity to speak. Without covering all the ground, because there is so much to talk about, I would just like to say two or three things. I speak from the experience of having been a Minister who visited Yemen and understands a little bit about it, and who also had the responsibility of signing off arms control applications in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. I speak as someone who I think on occasion got it both wrong and right.

The FCO has some incredibly difficult choices to make in dealing with any of these issues. The focus of the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), who made a typically excellent speech on this subject, was absolutely right. It is understandable that the motion is before us, and the sentiments behind it are well understood. Is it the most significant thing at the moment? Probably not, because ending the conflict was what the right hon. Gentleman focused on, and in getting to the end of a conflict, some incredibly difficult choices have to be made. The balance between our values and the practicalities of the issues surrounding decisions in the middle east has never been more finely balanced or more difficult.

I repeat that I understand the sentiments behind the motion, but I do not think that it is the right answer to the problems we have. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary set out well the complexities and some of the background that is essential to understanding where Yemen is today.

Two things about the kingdom of Saudi Arabia might be usefully known. First, as the right hon. Member for Leicester East and others know, Yemen has been in a state for a long time. It was the king of Saudi Arabia who picked up Yemen and sent money over a lengthy period of time. This friends of Yemen process was started by the Labour Government when they were in office. A lot of money was put into Yemen; it did not get through to the people because of the actions of the then President, Ali Abdullah Saleh, who is a constant factor in the difficulties created in the region. The kingdom of Saudi Arabia has been extremely generous in trying to support Yemen and pick it up.

Secondly, we need to be aware of the openness with which the Saudi Foreign Minister addressed the issue of the dreadful bombing attack on the funeral recently. That is relatively new, and it indicates, as my hon. Friend the Member for Reigate (Crispin Blunt) said, a different approach in Saudi Arabia, which is of huge significance in the region.

With that in mind, we come to what we are trying to say and do today. The hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury said that our values would come forward from what the House did. With all due respect, that is not necessarily so. It is not just our interpretation of our values that is important; other people’s interpretation of our values is important as well. I know from tough experience that what we sometimes say and do here with the best of intentions is not always seen in the same way elsewhere. Sometimes what we hold to be dear can be seen as naive misjudgment by those who are closer to the action and have difficult judgments to make themselves.

What is most important is that in a region where friendships have been changed in recent years—most notably by some of the actions of the United States leaving people wondering whose side they were on, and who was going to be a balance in the regional interests and conflicts—for the United Kingdom to be seen to make a similar judgment at this time would undermine the efforts being made for peace.

Let me quote from the letter sent to Members from the ambassador to Yemen before today’s debate. In respect of the peace efforts being made, he said:

“We hope the Houthi militia who control Sana’a may be persuaded to engage seriously in peace talks”—

which is obviously what we all want. He continues, however, by saying:

“They hope instead to weaken the Coalition by undermining relationships with its Western Allies”.

That is what we might, unwittingly, fall into.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

Does the right hon. Gentleman not also appreciate that although the UK is doing good work by providing aid, we are undermining that good work by also selling bombs that are landing on the heads of people in Yemen?

[Alistair Burt]

No, but I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her intervention. The great work that we are doing on humanitarian relief is well respected, but the issue of who is supportive in a situation that, as my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary said, is not of the Government of Yemen’s own making is a complex one. The undermining of a constitutional process that is absolutely vital to the further development of Yemen and the issues between north and south are further complicating issues. I went to both north and south and I went to Aden; I met the southern leaders; the constitutional process was getting somewhere—but it was undermined by the Houthi attacks and then the support of Ali Abdullah Saleh. Only when that is stopped can the constitutional talks continue and the efforts for peace be delivered, because that is what is most important for the people who are suffering in Yemen. With the best will in the world, this action by the United Kingdom would not achieve anything on the ground, and it might make the process more difficult. We want to see a ceasefire as quickly as possible, but I do not think that by withdrawing our support from one of the parties that can actually make that happen and by giving false hope to others to continue the conflict, we would be doing our best for the people of Yemen.

I greatly appreciate not only being given the opportunity to speak, but some of the difficult judgments that my colleagues have to make. Sometimes it is not easy to get the balance right. I think that on this occasion my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary and, above all, the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood), are doing the very best that they can for the people of Yemen, and that we should back them up.

Dietary Advice and Childhood Obesity Strategy

Debate between Alistair Burt and Alison Thewliss

Monday 23rd May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

Tempting though it is to use my temporary position for a whole range of announcements in relation to this area, I think that would be unwise. I can inform my hon. Friend that I have him on an accumulator with my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall); I am not saying who is the final part of it. No, the Government will stick to their declared policy in relation to sugary drinks. Perhaps my hon. Friend might welcome the fact that all the money from that is going into physical activity through sports in schools, which I know he is really keen on as well. Perhaps that mitigates any concern he might have.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

We have heard about the evidence base and the importance of looking at that evidence as we move the strategy forward. May I ask, as I did when this was last debated on 21 January, that the childhood obesity strategy look at the evidence that breastfeeding can contribute to reducing childhood obesity? The evidence is there, and it makes a significant contribution, so will the Minister ensure that it gets prominence in the report when it comes to be published?

[Alistair Burt]

Yes, I am very conscious of the issues surrounding this. The hon. Lady already has a meeting with the Under-Secretary, my hon. Friend the Member for Battersea, when these issues can be taken further.