Finance (No. 2) Bill (Fifth sitting)

Alison Thewliss Excerpts

Committee stage
Tuesday 11th January 2022 Public Bill Committees

[Abena Oppong-Asare (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship again, Sir Christopher. I thank the Minister for her explanation of clauses 95 and 96, particularly in respect of discovery assessments. As she says, clause 95 will amend the Taxes Management Act 1970 to provide certainty that HMRC can use discovery assessments to make good a loss of tax where it discovers that certain charges have not been accounted for; when the Bill gains Royal Assent, the clause will apply both retrospectively and prospectively.

The amendment to the 1970 Act has to be understood in the context of the legal challenge in HMRC v. Wilkes, in which the upper tribunal ruled that HMRC could not use discovery assessments to assess tax charges arising from sources that do not meet the definition of income within the relevant provision. Clause 95 will amend the law to enable HMRC to use discovery assessments in such circumstances. The background note in the explanatory notes states that the aim is to

“put the matter beyond doubt and confirm HMRC’s long-standing policy”.

Although there has clearly been historic doubt and an unsuccessful legal defence mounted by HMRC, and while this is being applied retrospectively, there is an exception for those who have appealed on the grounds that HMRC was inadequate at the time prior to the Wilkes case. However, as the Minister probably knows, the Low Incomes Tax Reform Group has raised the point that the retrospective application in the clause could be uneven and unfair.

While those who have appealed have been exempted, those who did not make the necessary appeal will face retrospective charges. Those who accepted the charge at face value and paid it will clearly not get their money back, despite the upper tribunal’s finding that HMRC’s use of discovery assessments in this way was outside the scope of its powers and, therefore, not legal. The Wilkes judgment will soon no longer be a legitimate basis for legal contest; I would be grateful if the Minister could make an assessment of the fairness of this uneven, retrospective application.

Under clause 96, there will be further amendments to the Taxes Management Act 1970. It will amend section 7 and extend the circumstances in which a person must make a notification under section 7 to the charges listed in section 30 of the Income Tax Act 2007. As the Minister mentioned, that requires the taxpayer to notify HMRC of any liability to income tax or capital gains tax charges per accounting year. The amendments to the fundamental piece of primary legislation have been extended to include liability, as set out in clause 95. For this reason, we will not be opposing the clause.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Sir Christopher. While we support its broad principles, this type of clause brings me out in a cold sweat. I completed my self-assessment tax return last night, and I am now worrying that I have not done it right and at some point in the future HMRC will come running after me because I have ticked the wrong box on the form somewhere.

The clause goes to the sense of a lot of the things to do with the higher income child benefit charge, particularly this retrospective aspect. Since it was introduced in 2013, there have been challenges around the charge, in terms of people knowing about it and the way in which the system works. The child benefit and HMRC systems do not necessarily talk to one another, and people have been brought into self-assessment without realising it.

I can use myself as an example. When I first phoned HMRC to ask about the issue, it asked, “What is your husband’s income?” I said, “I have no idea—it is his income. It is nothing to do with me.” Many people will not know their partner’s income. There may be reasons why the partner does not want to tell them their income, and that will leave them in a very difficult position. People may be in a relationship of coercive or financial control, and they may not be aware of their partner’s income but may end up falling into liability under the rules that the Minister has set out.

What kind of mitigation, if any, may be put in place should people in future be held liable for something they were not aware of for entirely legitimate reasons? Will there be any such mitigation, or will HMRC try to claw back all the money regardless of the person’s situation? Many people may end up in a situation where they are having income clawed back that they were not aware of. How do the Government intend to continue to raise awareness of the higher income child benefit charge and whether people are going to be affected by it?

As the Low Income Tax Reform Group point out in its excellent evidence to the Committee,

“The number of families affected by the charge has increased substantially since it was first introduced because the £50,000 threshold has not been uprated for nine years”.

The effect is that every year it affects more people, who are then drawn into the charge without being aware of it.

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[James Murray]

As we have heard, clause 98 relates to the power to make temporary modifications of taxation of employment income. The clause will grant the Treasury the power to make regulations to modify temporarily parts 3, 4 and 5 of the Income Tax (Earnings and Pensions) Act 2003 under ministerial direction, in the event of a disaster or emergency of national significance. The regulations must set out which disaster or emergency they are made in respect of, and the powers can be exercised only in a way that is wholly relieving to the taxpayer and cannot be used to create a tax charge.

This measure has been introduced in the context of the covid-19 pandemic, and indeed covid has highlighted the limited scope to make changes to the current benefits in kind and expenses rules to respond quickly to the pandemic. We understand that the aim of clause 98 is to enable changes to primary legislation to be made rapidly in response to significant national events. In that respect, we do not oppose this clause, provided that it is applied in strictly exceptional circumstances of national importance.

The clause uses the terms “emergency” and “disaster”, but a specific description of these criteria is missing. I would be grateful if the Minister set out what the Treasury would consider to be an emergency or disaster. Without a doubt, the onset of the covid-19 pandemic was a good example, but without a robust and transparent framework to guide the Treasury—given that the use of the power seems to be at its sole discretion—it is important that we are clear about the circumstances in which income tax liability can effectively be waived. Moreover, clause 98 notes that such measures would be temporary and would not apply longer than necessary. Again, guidance and a framework are conspicuously lacking, as the Government has provided no definition of “temporary”.

Early in the covid pandemic, emergency measures were needed, but as the pandemic has gone on the need for emergency measures has lessened. I would be grateful if the Minister assured us that a clear and transparent framework for establishing what constitutes “emergency”, “disaster” and “temporary” will be published, and when. If not, why not?

I am sure that we agree that this is a matter of effective policy rather than politics. As I have said, the context in which the clause has been introduced is uncontroversial, but I would be grateful if the Minister addressed this ambiguity and assessed whether the measure could be applied in a manner that deviates from its stated intention.

[Alison Thewliss]

I agree very much with what the Labour Front-Bench spokesman has said. Clause 98 is very wide-ranging, and vague in a lot of ways. It is important to understand its scope, because one person’s definition of a disaster or emergency might be quite different from another’s. It is important that we define that slightly more than is the case in the clause, which states that the regulations

“may only specify a disaster or emergency which the Treasury considers to be of national significance.”

That could be a lot of things, depending on how the Treasury considers it.

I wonder whether the Minister, in looking at the clause, has taken into account the findings of the Public Accounts Committee and the National Audit Office on the Government’s lack of financial preparedness, specifically coming into the pandemic. There was a lot of talk about medical preparedness, stockpiling and things like that, but both the National Audit Office and the Public Accounts Committee found that there was no preparedness in the Treasury for a pandemic or national emergency of this type.

It would be useful to know what further work, in addition to clause 98, Treasury officials are putting in place to ensure that, should something like this occur in future, the box of learning from this pandemic can be taken off the shelf and easily applied, without having to make a load of new provisions and regulations, so that things are ready to go, and we do not have to scratch around, trying to figure out what happened last time. Another pandemic may occur in five years or 50 years—we do not know. Certainly, our hope in the SNP is that we will not be here in 50 years, if not five, but it would be useful to know what provisions are being considered in the Treasury to ensure that the learning from this pandemic sits very tightly with this clause and can be applied very easily.

[Lucy Frazer]

I thank hon. Members for their contributions. Both the hon. Member for Ealing North and the hon. Member for Glasgow Central asked us to be more prescriptive in the legislation—to define the circumstances in which there would be a disaster or emergency—but we are bringing in this legislation precisely because we did not have the flexibility that we needed when we went into this pandemic. Therefore we do not want to tightly define the circumstances. We are bringing in this legislation to ensure that we have the tools at our disposal to exercise the necessary powers should an event like the one we have been through and hopefully are at the end of occur.

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The hon. Member for Glasgow Central talked about lack of financial preparedness from the Treasury. The Chancellor’s response to the pandemic has been recognised by a number of international financial institutions as including some of the most effective measures put in place in Europe and across the globe. The measures that the Chancellor has put in place have avoided significant unemployment—when we went into the pandemic we expected 12% unemployment, but it is much less than that. Two million fewer people are unemployed than we originally expected.

[Alison Thewliss]

My point was not about the reaction to the pandemic but preparedness. All the systems had to be put in place suddenly and with little planning. There has been significant fraud in many of the schemes as a result of the lack of tight planning. They were reactive emergency measures. Does the Minister agree that it would have been much better for all those things to have been set out clearly, so they could be taken off the shelf should they be needed? Instead, they were reactive measures that had not been planned ahead of time.

[Lucy Frazer]

The hon. Lady is right to say that a number of measures were reactive, but they were brought it at extremely quick pace and were effective pretty much immediately. She makes a valid point about learning; I know the Treasury is learning and has learned throughout the pandemic. The schemes we put in place at the outset have been refined, including the self-employment income support scheme, the furlough schemes and the coronavirus job retention scheme.

The hon. Lady mentioned the level of fraud; as the pandemic went on and the measures were refined, fraud reduced. She makes a valuable point about learning, and I am sure all Departments are learning. We do not want to be in this position again, which is precisely why we are bringing forward this legislation, to ensure that we are ready for any other emergency that should come our way.

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[The Chair]

We have not quite got there yet. We have some new clauses to consider after these clauses, but thank you very much for those comments.

[Alison Thewliss]

I was also going to thank people, but I am aware that we have new clauses. If you would rather that I waited until we have finished those, Sir Christopher, I will do so. [Interruption.] I am prompted by the hon. Member for Wolverhampton South West to thank Members for their indulgence of the many new clauses and amendments that we have tabled in Committee.

I will also take the opportunity to thank you, Sir Christopher, and the other Chairs for their smooth running of the Committee, and the Clerks for all their expertise and advice—especially Mr Stanton, as was mentioned by the hon. Member for Ealing North. Without the Clerks and their advice, we would have found it very difficult to put all these amendments together, and I thank them very much for that. I will also take the opportunity to thank Scott Taylor and Gus Robertson from our research team. They have now left—I do not think it was the Finance Bill that did it—and I wish them all the very best in their new jobs. I also thank Jonny Kiehlmann from our research team for his assistance, and the Ministers and Opposition Front Benchers for their comments.

A lot of the proposals we have tabled reflect the limitations that we, as the Opposition, face in moving amendments to the Finance Bill. We wish that there were a better process for this—rather than just calling for reports and things of that kind, we would like to be able to make substantial changes to the legislation before us—but that is not the way that things work in this House. It would also have been useful to take evidence from those who sent us written evidence, but I thank all of those who took the time to submit substantial written evidence to this Committee, because it gives us a great deal of assistance in making comments on the Bill. We will now go on to move our new clauses, which I am sure Members are all looking forward to.