Finance (No. 2) Bill (Third sitting)

Alison Thewliss Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 5th January 2022 Public Bill Committees

In summary, we will not oppose this group of clauses, but I hope that in her reply the Minister will be able to answer the questions that I have set out. In particular, I would be grateful if she could fully address the questions that I have raised in relation to clause 36: specifically whether RP developers would be liable to the RPDT if they either held the units on a piece of land for 10 years as build-to-rent or if they retained a long-term interest as a freeholder landlord.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

A happy new year to you, Dame Angela, and to all colleagues.

I have just a few queries about these clauses. First, I want to touch on the issues relating to exempting registered social landlords. During the consultation, the Scottish Federation of Housing Associations asked the Government to exempt all non-profit housing providers and wholly owned subsidiary companies. It highlighted the social housing sector’s concerns that developers would look to pass on costs where properties are purchased off the shelf, as it were, rather than housing associations doing it themselves, and it was very pleased that it had that exemption as part of the rules that the Government are introducing. That is very welcome, and I am glad that has been the case.

A “registered social landlord” is defined in clause 34(4)(b), and paragraph (c) refers to the Housing (Scotland) Act 2010. Does the Minister intend to keep in touch with the Scottish Government should there be any further changes to Scottish legislation that might be impacted by the Bill? The definition of a registered social landlord in Scotland is slightly different from that in England. An RSL is not allowed to be for-profit in Scotland, and that is very clear in the legislation. I understand that on the English register there are 1,625 providers of registered social housing, 60 of which are classed as for-profit.

Out of curiosity, has the Minister or her colleagues had any discussions with the for-profit organisations? Looking at some of the names, I think that some of the people they seek to provide housing for appear to be reasonably laudable causes—people we would wish to support—even though it is through for-profit social housing. I am curious about what the impact might be on the sector as a result.

On clause 34(5) and the point made by the hon. Member for Ealing North, it is important that a lot of the measures are going to secondary legislation and we will lose sight of any future changes that the Government make to the definitions of non-profit and any other definitions that they seek to make. How does the Minister intend to report that back to the House in a way that allows Members to ensure that there will be no unintended consequences from things that happen once the Bill leaves Committee?

On the definitions of residential property in clause 37 and the exemptions in subsection (2), I was interested to see that student accommodation is a part of this. In many respects I agree with student accommodation being exempted, particularly accommodation run by universities themselves for no profit. Universities looking not to make a profit but simply to make the accommodation pay for itself are very different from the rapacious student accommodation providers that seek deliberately to make profits from students. Some of the fees that they can charge and the developments that they create are sizeable.

There are huge accommodation providers in Glasgow Central. They have a worthy goal in providing accommodation for students, but students have to pay through the nose for it and they are not quite in the same classes of accommodation. What conversations has the Minister had with student accommodation providers, both those working on a non-profit basis and those working on a commercial basis? It is clear that there are implications from cladding on student accommodation. Unite was mentioned in the press as having in its portfolio 22 high-rise buildings that are affected by cladding. I understand that it is meeting the cost of removing the cladding but, as I say, it is a profitable business in many respects. What more can the Government tell me about their conversations on that?

My other points were covered by the hon. Member for Ealing North, but I have one final point about the preparedness of HMRC to implement the significant and complex new tax. My hon. Friend the Member for Gordon mentioned the complexity. When legislation starts to get into equations, we are talking about something that is quite complicated, especially when we look at the detail in the clauses and the schedules that follow them. What preparations is HMRC meant to be making for this? HMRC has had a busy couple of years, given all the things it has had to do as a result of coronavirus. A lot of that was done at pace, with other stuff put to the side, and I wonder whether this might be one thing that was put to the side while HMRC dealt with coronavirus.

It is clear from some of the press coverage of the coronavirus schemes that HMRC did not have the staff to check up on where the money was going, and that it has been trying to claw back some of that money without the staff complement to do that properly and fully. I would like to know from the Minister the size of the team that has been working on this and what more needs to be done to ensure that this goes smoothly in April 2022.

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[Abena Oppong-Asare]

I thank the Minister for her explanation of clause 72; it does seem like a straightforward clause that simply moves the criteria for determining where the risk is located into primary legislation. The Chartered Institute of Taxation has stated that the legislation does meet its stated objectives. For that reason, we do not oppose the clause.

I note that there has been wider consultation on the insurance premium tax, including on how to address the avoidance of the tax and how to reduce the administrative burden on HMRC and the industry. That is particularly important as HMRC has been under a lot of pressure—particularly during the pandemic. In the Government’s response to the consultation on the issue of IPT avoidance, they said that, on reviewing the responses,

“neither of the proposed options provide a proportionate solution to the issue this chapter sought to address. As such, neither option will be taken forward at this time.”

That seems like the Government have given up at the first hurdle. Why, if the proposed measures are not appropriate, are the Government not considering other measures to prevent avoidance in this sector?

[Alison Thewliss]

I do not have any major objections to what is being proposed, but I would be doing the Association of British Insurers a disservice if I let the clause go through without mentioning its concern, which I share, that insurance premium tax is quite a regressive tax. We are about to discuss tobacco duty; the ABI points out, through some research by the Social Market Foundation, that insurance premium tax now raises more revenue than beer and cider duty, wine duty, spirits duty, or betting and gaming duties.

Since 1994, the standard rate of IPT has increased more rapidly than tobacco duty. Those are all things that we want people not to do; we would prefer it if people did not drink as much, smoke as much or gamble as much, so we tax those things. It seems ludicrous to tax people on insurance, which we would like people to have and which benefits them and society, so I ask the Minister to consider further whether insurance premium tax is something sensible that we want to keep doing.

[Lucy Frazer]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Glasgow Central for her broader points about the subject matter. I do not think she raised a particular point in relation to the clause under consideration, but this is an area that, like others, we will keep under review. I undertake to get back to the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead in writing on the specific point that she raised in relation to the consultation.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 72 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 73

Transitioned trade remedies: decisions by Secretary of State

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.

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[Abena Oppong-Asare]

I thank the Minister for her explanation of the clause, which introduces technical amendments to the changes introduced to restrict the entitlement to use rebated fuel, more commonly known as red diesel. We discussed the substance of that change in Committee on the last Finance Bill. As I said then, we support the intention behind the Government’s measure. There is a clear need to ensure that fuel duty rebates are as limited as possible in order to meet our net zero commitment.

The amendments made by this Bill are technical in nature, and we do not oppose them. However, will the Minister set out which, if any, industries will be affected by the changes and what work is being done to ensure that they are prepared, given that we are now only a few months from the introduction of the changes? Will she also update us on preparations by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and other agencies for the changes? Is she confident that the Government will be able to ensure compliance from April this year? The Minister’s colleague, the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, mentioned that there has been some restructuring around HMRC, but I echo the earlier comments by the hon. Member for Glasgow Central and my hon. Friend the Member for Ealing North, who explained that HMRC has been busy for a number of years. Will the Minister update us on what work has been done to ensure that we are prepared for this change?

[Alison Thewliss]

I am glad that the definitions are being amended to include fairs and circuses, of which there are many in my constituency, to allow them to continue to use rebated diesel and biofuels after 1 April 2022. In that industry it is quite difficult to adapt machines to use other sources. The showpeople I represent will be pleased that the Government have listened on this measure, and I thank the Minister for that.

[Helen Whately]

I welcome the support that the hon. Member for Erith and Thamesmead expressed for the intention behind this measure and her recognition that the changes are of a technical nature and that the Opposition therefore will not oppose the clause. I assure her that there has been substantial consultation on the overall policy. Indeed, as the hon. Member for Glasgow Central said, the Government have listened, and that is reflected in some of the changes. I am confident in HMRC’s ability to monitor compliance.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 75 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule 10 agreed to.

Clause 76

Rates of tobacco products duty

Question proposed, That the clause stand part of the Bill.