Draft Trade Union (Deduction of Union Subscriptions from Wages in the Public Sector) Regulations 2023

Alex Burghart Excerpts

Tuesday 30th January 2024 General Committees

[The Chair]

Before I call the Minister to move the motion, I remind colleagues that today’s debate is exactly, per the regulations’ title, on the deduction of union subscriptions from wages in the public sector. It is not a general debate on Government economic policy, strikes, the merits or otherwise of trade unions, or anything else. I will be calling Members to order if they go out of scope. It is a serious piece of work that is in front of us, and it needs to be treated with respect.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

I will have to jettison a large part of my speaking notes now, Mr Paisley!

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Trade Union (Deduction of Union Subscriptions from Wages in the Public Sector) Regulations 2023.

To cut to the chase, the Trade Union (Deduction of Union Subscriptions from Wages in the Public Sector) Regulations, also known as the check-off regulations—not Anton Chekhov, the 19th-century Russian playwright, but check-off—stem from section 15 of the Trade Union Act 2016. It is the last piece of secondary legislation to be brought into force as part of that Act.

The regulations aim to modernise industrial relations in the UK. They define a relevant public sector employer for the purposes of section 15 of the 2016 Act. That provision requires relevant public sector employers that allow employees to pay union subscriptions directly through payroll—a process known as check-off—to charge trade unions a cost substantially equivalent to the cost they incur for providing the service. In addition, public sector employers must be satisfied that there is an alternative way of union members paying their subscriptions aside from check-off, such as through direct debit.

Should employers not be able to secure payment substantially equivalent to the costs of providing check-off, and there is an alternative payment available to employees, employers must cease to provide check-off. That will ensure that check-off services are provided by public sector employers only where there is no cost burden to the taxpayer and to guarantee members have choices about subscription payment methods.

The regulations will not come into force until a reasonable transition period has elapsed to allow everyone adequate time to make arrangements to comply with the regulations. To that end, the regulations will come into force on 9 May 2024, six months after laying. That is a generous transition period, considering that the regulations were previously due to be laid in 2017, so employers have had a significant period of awareness of the impending changes.

[Chris Stephens (Glasgow South West) (SNP)]

The Minister has said that six months is an appropriate period, but during the debates on the Trade Union Bill in Parliament, the Government committed to a consultation period of 12 months, not six months. Will the Minister explain why the Government’s position has changed?

[Alex Burghart]

The hon. Member will be aware from my opening remarks that the Bill that floated this idea was given Royal Assent in 2016. A few international events got in the way of our completing the passage of the secondary legislation, but we think that given how much time has elapsed and how aware everyone is of the changes, there is no great problem in moving from 12 months to six months.

The Government have also provided to the House the explanatory memorandum and a full impact assessment, and we have published on gov.uk guidance to be issued to public sector employers to help them to familiarise themselves and comply with the regulations. The check-off regulations will deliver value for money for the taxpayer. The impact assessment has identified that the intervention will equate to a present benefit saving of approximately £1.5 million a year. However, I wish to be clear that the regulations stem from the Trade Union Act 2016, which was introduced in response to a 2015 manifesto commitment. As such, and despite delays owing to other Government priorities relevant to the UK’s exit from the European Union, the coronavirus pandemic and so on, this has been a long-term ambition of the Government in our aim to modernise industrial relations in the UK.

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[Alex Burghart]

I thank all those who contributed to the debate. The hon. Member for Llanelli says that this is not a pressing issue, and I am inclined to agree with her, because that is why it has taken us the better part of eight years to get to this point. We put this relatively minor measure on hold while we were dealing with much larger issues.

The hon. Lady talks about it being a matter of a few pence. At £1.5 million a year, I am not sure I agree with her definition of a few pence, but if it is just a few pence, I am sure that the trade unions will be able to cover the cost, as they justly should. They all have a choice to make on whether to pass the cost on to their members, but they may wish to consider the size of their expense accounts before doing so. The main thing here is the principle that the public services should not be providing for the trade unions a service that is unremunerated. This delegated legislation will help to embed that principle.

Regarding challenges, our view is that there are existing and well established processes for resolving disputes between our public services and the trade unions which will be fit for purpose in this instance. The hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton raised a question about the ECHR. The regulations deny no one the right to join a trade union, so that issue will not arise.

I am pleased to be able to tell my former colleague on the Work and Pensions Committee, the hon. Member for Glasgow South West, that Scotland was consulted on the scope of the regulations. The Minister for the Cabinet Office wrote to relevant Ministers. This is obviously and clearly a reserved area—

[Afzal Khan]

Will the Minister give way?

[Chris Stephens]

Will the Minister give way?

[Alex Burghart]

I will give way to the hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton first.

[Afzal Khan]

Can the Minister explain why the Government failed to consult the unions? The instrument clearly affects them.

[Alex Burghart]

I am pleased to be able to tell the hon. Gentleman that the trade unions were consulted as part of the work we did during the passage of the Trade Union Act 2016. To be clear: for a lot of people, direct debit is much more effective. It is often much better for trade unions, too. Going back over Hansard, I noticed that in 2016 a number of trade union websites were actively encouraging members to move to direct debit, because they thought it was a better process.

[Chris Stephens]

Trade unions were doing that because at that time the Government had stopped their members’ rights to have their subscriptions come off their wages. The Minister said—after his distasteful attack on trade unions, which I hope he will reflect on—that this is clearly a reserved area. I accept that, unfortunately, employment law is reserved to this place—it would be far better if it was under the aegis of the Scottish Parliament—but industrial relations are not. Industrial relations are between employer and employees. Why should the Government interfere in the voluntary arrangements between an employer and a trade union?

[Alex Burghart]

The hon. Gentleman has answered his own question. This is a matter of the relationship between the public sector employer and its employee. That is why it is a reserved matter.

In his closing remarks, the hon. Gentleman said that membership of trade unions leads to higher wages. That was not necessarily the lesson of the 1970s. I hope he will reflect on that part of history. As for his reference to Stalinism, I should probably take that in the spirit in which it was delivered, but as we are having a political dust-up, I will remind him what Stalinism was. Real Stalinism involved the death of tens of millions of people at the hands of perhaps the most brutal regime the world has ever seen, and that was the result of socialism.

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[Alex Burghart]

I am happy to respond to the hon. Gentleman. If he wants to know whether a trade union will bring legal action, he had better ask the trade union. We believe that the regulations are fit for purpose.

[Dame Nia Griffith]

I would like the Minister to clarify the issue of the employer setting a rate and the trade union disagreeing with that rate. There is no mechanism for that. The Minister mentioned “the usual”—going to ACAS or whatever—but the fact is that the legislation needs some redress or balance. It is all stacked in favour of the employer, who picks the figure, and the trade union has to take it or leave it. Perhaps the Minister could give us a better answer on that point.

[Alex Burghart]

I refer the hon. Lady to the answer I gave a few moments ago. She will know that there are existing, well established processes for dispute resolution between trade unions and public sector employers, and we believe that those will serve in this instance.

[The Chair]

Before I put the question, I remind colleagues that paragraph 13.2 of the rules of debate states that Members are entitled to speak as many times as they wish.

Question put.