Fuel Poverty (Rural Britain)

Albert Owen Excerpts

Wednesday 7th July 2010 Westminster Hall

[Albert Owen (Ynys Môn) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) on initiating this very important debate. It is also timely, given the election of a new Government. I have already been in correspondence with the Department of Energy and Climate Change and I shall come to that in a moment.

I want to start by pointing out that this issue is about rural Britain—the periphery areas of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The periphery area that I represent in north-west Wales suffers from a double whammy: most of the household customers pay extra for their fuel, but they also pay extra fuel costs for their transport. We have had a number of debates on the issue in this Chamber, and I appreciate what the Chancellor of the Exchequer said in the Budget about looking at rural areas and pilot schemes whereby transport costs and the price of petrol at the pump can be considered. Pilot schemes should also consider rural areas on the periphery of the United Kingdom when it comes to energy prices and energy costs as well. That is what I believe the hon. Lady was developing in her argument.

Periphery areas are a special case. I do not accept that in the 21st century, areas on the periphery should have to pay much more in fuel costs. I know from having the port that is the gateway to Ireland and Wales in my constituency that Northern Ireland’s problem is compounded by fuel smuggling from the Irish Republic. Fuel is smuggled in and out of the United Kingdom via the south of Ireland. There are huge problems that we need to grapple with.

I have campaigned to reduce both the cost of petrol at the pumps and the cost of energy supplies to homes. People living in periphery areas and rural areas are being ripped off. The hon. Lady says that she wants to give the companies a kicking. I will join her and I think that all of us should, because mass profits have been made by many of the companies over a long time and the people who are paying for it predominantly live in the rural areas of Britain. The market is letting people down badly in those areas.

All that my constituents and those of the hon. Lady and every other hon. Member in the Chamber are asking for is a level playing field. Yes, they want reduced costs, but they want to pay the same as people in urban areas and other parts of the United Kingdom, and importantly they want choice. Quite often in isolated rural areas, people just have the choice of propane gas, coal or other things. Off-grid areas do not have access to mains gas and are losing out. The market says that it will provide choice to customers, but in rural areas they simply do not have that choice and they are penalised for it through the price that they pay. That limited choice and paying more for fuel is a huge problem.

I said that I had already raised the matter in correspondence with the Department, and I first did so at business questions, when I asked for a debate on the issue. A debate in Government time would be very much welcome in addition to this important Adjournment debate. I have had, over many years, helpful responses from Energy Ministers and progress has been made. Warm Front is a good national project that has helped an awful lot, and good energy efficiency measures are available. I am certainly familiar with what has been done by the Welsh Assembly and I know that other devolved Administrations are working on the issue, too. This Parliament, local government and the Welsh Assembly can work together with the distribution network to ensure that we get better services to people in these areas.

In the very helpful reply that I received from the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, the hon. Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry), he said that he recognised that more needed to be done. One option that he came up with was a further roll-out of energy efficiency measures. I disagree with the hon. Member for West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine (Sir Robert Smith), who said that we have been concentrating just on price. Huge amounts of money have been invested in energy efficiency measures. In my constituency, most of the houses have been done, and to a very high standard, but the price is the issue.

[Sir Robert Smith]

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that the price is the issue. The problem was that in the early days of the previous Government, because of the way in which the market was working, prices for domestic gas were falling so dramatically that people were coming out of fuel poverty and it seemed as if the job was being done. Then the price started to go up relentlessly and it became clear that much greater work should have been done in the good times to make the housing stock more efficient, rather than responding after the fact.

[Albert Owen]

I agree partly with what the hon. Gentleman says. It is easy to be wise after the event. He will remember that at the time we were in the “dash for gas”, gas was relatively cheap across the whole United Kingdom and our eye was off the ball, because people were getting cheap fuel. Yes, more could and should have been done then, and it should have been done over the past 13 years. I hope that more will be done over the next few years to ensure that we alleviate fuel poverty in rural areas.

The Minister told me he was involved in the option of promoting renewable heating, which is another important way forward. Although I shall argue for the gas network to be extended throughout the United Kingdom, we need, particularly with the low-carbon economy that we are moving towards, to consider renewables. Geothermal energy is important in many areas. It would be helpful if new estates and new housing, including affordable housing, such measures installed at the construction stage.

In my constituency—I am sure that other hon. Members have experience of this—many of the problems are not just with stone houses that are a century old or more, but with estates that were built in the 1960s and ’70s, where the developers simply did not put gas mains in and did not provide for up-to-date fuel, leaving people on the periphery of the gas mains area. I am sure that at that time people would happily have paid for access to the gas mains from those properties, and it would have been a selling point for the builders, who were very short-sighted.

When I talk about areas off the grid, I am talking about not individual isolated properties but more often about small villages, towns and hamlets that are a short distance from the mains. There are issues about getting the pressure to the level needed but, again, I am sure that in the 21st century that can be done relatively simply.

[Mr Mike Weir (Angus) (SNP)]

Does the hon. Gentleman accept that there are two problems with that? First, there are many rural areas where the gas main will simply never go, because of practical difficulties. Secondly, in an era of rising gas prices and a possible shortage of gas, does he believe that gas is really the way forward for dealing with rural fuel poverty?

[Albert Owen]

I welcome that intervention, but that is not the point that I am making. I am saying that we should have renewables as well. Areas close to the gas mains should be offered a choice. I have seen the price differential between the bills of people who are off the gas mains grid and people who are on it, and it is simply wrong and unfair that some people are paying so much more.

[Andrew George]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. He will be aware that the level at which ground source heat pumps are sold does not ensure cost efficiency for homes. In fact, the payback period required is 25 to 40 years, and we will achieve something only by rolling things out in larger numbers. However, given the hon. Gentleman’s excellent record in arguing this case, does he share my disappointment that the previous Government failed to support—indeed talked out—the Fuel Poverty Bill introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath), whose private Member’s Bill included many of the measures for which the hon. Gentleman is arguing?

[Albert Owen]

The hon. Gentleman knows me well enough to know that I would not pander to the previous Labour Government when they were in office, and I will certainly not try to defend their record now when I think that it is wrong. The hon. Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath) has an excellent record on this issue, and now that he is in the Government I hope that he will able to use greater leverage on Ministers to ensure that measures are introduced. As Deputy Leader of the House, he is in the privileged cross-governmental position of being able to bring everyone together to get things done as soon as possible, and he will get my 100% support in doing so.

In his helpful letter to me, the Energy Minister said that some schemes are working and that Ofgem has made progress on connecting vulnerable households to the gas networks by encouraging large gas distribution networks to work with agencies to produce results. He said that about 20,000 households would be connected to the grid by 2013, but we simply do not have the agencies or the local authority initiative in my area, so there is no lead partner. I urge the Government to look at that, because we need a thrust from central Government, and from regional and national Government in Wales and Scotland, to push the issue forward. I acknowledge that there are many excellent energy efficiency measures, and I repeat that the Welsh Assembly Government have an excellent record in this field and are taking fuel poverty and their part in dealing with it very seriously, but we all need to work together.

The boiler scrappage scheme was useful in helping many people to replace equipment. That is a big issue, and the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal is right that there are a lot of associated costs with changing to another source of energy and not least to another supplier. People have to remove the gas storage equipment in their properties, which is costly, although some companies will take over that cost because they will get the business in the future. However, when people apply, they are hampered by additional costs, so the process is not easy. People feel trapped with their supplier, which is putting an extra cost on them.

[Dr Coffey]

This is a genuine question. I was under the impression that rules had gone out saying that universal connectors now have to be supplied, so there is no issue about equipment staying. That is part of the new deal.

[Albert Owen]

Things certainly have improved, but the change has not been advertised very openly. When people were approached in the past, it is clear that they felt trapped. The customer needs clarity to ensure that they can get a better deal from a different supplier.

The core of the problem remains the cost of domestic fuel, particularly in rural areas and areas on the periphery, and that is why the debate is so important. A constituent in her 80s who came to see me in late May was very grateful for the additional Government support that she received through the winter fuel allowance, which helped to alleviate some of the problems that she faced, but she was still paying huge amounts for her propane gas. From 2008 to April 2010, her company supplied her at a unit cost of between 45p and 51p per litre. That gave her an average quarterly bill of between £400 and £700, which is an enormous amount for an elderly person living on her own in an older property. The property and the dozen like it on the same small estate are not that old, but I was astonished to find that the properties that did not have access to mains gas were all paying different prices to the same supplier. The households had to go through something like an auction to get the basic unit cost down—they had to negotiate.

I raised the issue with the company. In addition to the unit cost, there was the cost of associated charges such as the standing charge and gas surcharges, which took the price up considerably. When the company replied to the correspondence I had sent on behalf of my constituent, it said that the variations were due to the geography, the seasons and the type of agreement, but I am talking about households in the same estate paying different prices.

Those issues need to be looked at, which is why I want to move on to the excellent campaign by Which?, the consumer group, which is looking for greater transparency in energy prices. The old chestnut from many of the suppliers and fuel companies is that the retail price is linked to the wholesale price. When wholesale prices go up, the companies say that they are forced to put their retail prices up, but when wholesale prices come down, companies say that the system is very complicated and sophisticated, and it does not necessarily follow that the retail price is linked to the wholesale price. We therefore need greater transparency.

I am asking for a breakdown from suppliers to show exactly the amount of bulk gas that they get at wholesale prices and what they pay for it. Some of the electricity companies, and the companies that supply gas and electricity, are now more open and transparent, and they are gaining from that—greater transparency is in the interests of the suppliers, as well as the consumer. The Committee of Selection is meeting today, and as a member of the new Select Committee on Energy and Climate Change, I will push for greater transparency so that we can see exactly the link between wholesale and retail prices. That is an important move forward, which would benefit consumers, particularly in rural areas, and I would welcome it. The Government should be encouraged to work with the consumer watchdog to bring about greater transparency.

I know that a number of Members want to speak in the debate, and I do not want to detain them, but I have concentrated on off-mains gas areas because they are being hit particularly hard, and we need to look again at extending the network; indeed, hon. Members in previous Parliaments raised the issue. The irony is that although my constituency is on the periphery, I am promoting the concept of an energy island because we have energy generation in the area. We have a nuclear power station and wind farms, and we welcome both because they generate employment and contribute to the United Kingdom’s energy security. We also have projects that are looking at tidal energy, so we are well positioned to provide the new renewable energy that the Energy Minister told me was a way forward. However, although the Wylfa power station in my constituency supplies more than 30% of energy in Wales, some people living in close proximity to it pay some of the highest prices in Wales for their energy because they do not have the opportunity to use the gas network and they do not have the same choice as many people in non-rural and urban areas of the United Kingdom.

I welcome the response that I received from the Energy Minister. He is a sincere man and he will work with the Deputy Leader of the House and others to ensure that we get a good deal for people in my constituency, in peripheral areas and in rural Britain. Once again, I congratulate the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal, because this is a hot subject. It needs dealing with now, and I hope that we can move forward.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

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[Mr Williams]

I am happy to endorse that point. Although I represent a coastal constituency and live on a cliff top, my experience cannot be compared with that of the hon. Gentleman or of his constituents, so I commend his proposal to the Minister. I concur with what has been said about the differential between retail and wholesale unit prices, and the lack of social tariffs. We are all aware that the Government have fewer resources to offer, but in commending what the hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) said about some of the schemes that have been pursued in Wales, I suggest that the Minister consult widely with the devolved Administrations to ensure that where there is good practice in England-only schemes, the Assembly Government can follow suit in a swift manner. After the announcement of the boiler scrappage scheme in England, a somewhat limited substandard scheme was launched in Wales very late in the day. In fact, the scheme was announced in April, when replacing boilers is perhaps the last thing on people’s minds.

[Albert Owen]

In defence of the Welsh Assembly Government, they tried to amend the scheme so that the elderly and the vulnerable could apply for it. I thought that that was why we were here today—to protect the most vulnerable against fuel poverty. I thought that it was an excellent idea to limit the scheme to senior citizens and vulnerable people.

[Mr Williams]

I welcome that aspect, but I question its timing. That was the point I was trying to make.

Last December, a consultation on fuel poverty in rural areas was initiated by the Commission for Rural Communities—I do not know what my English colleagues would say, but some of us regret the loss of that commission because it has been an independent voice offering strong messages for those of us elsewhere. Its interim report offered some key points to consider. Some 50% of the UK’s carbon emissions from housing come from hard-to-treat homes—off-gas, solid and non-traditional wall construction, high-rise or properties without a fillable loft or cavity. That is a huge proportion of the households that many of use represent. As we have heard, many of those hard-to-treat homes are in rural areas, and there is a clear need to take action to reduce emissions, tackle climate change, and reduce bills. In 2005, the figures got worse. Some 14.6% of households in villages and hamlets were living in fuel poverty compared with a national average of 7%. That is the background to the huge challenge facing the Minister.

Interim recommendations from the CRC report include updating data to improve its scope and definitions so that we have a clearer view of where the problems lie; improving data sharing; and, critically, learning from best-practice examples. As my friend, the hon. Member for Ynys Môn, said, the coalition Government need to prioritise certain pilot areas.

Although it seems hard to believe now, we had a particularly cold winter last year and cold weather payments were of great use to my constituents. However, I worry that the need for seven consecutive days of temperatures below zero may have distorted the payments. Despite experiencing very similar weather, towns and villages in the northern part of Ceredigion received three triggers while in the south just one trigger has been reached. Will the Minister look into that—again, that relates to the point made by the hon. Member for Na h-Eileanan an Iar (Mr MacNeil)—and say whether he is confident that the level of cold weather payments received truly reflects the problems people are experiencing on the ground?

Moreover, there are many people who were eligible for cold weather payments but who missed out on them altogether because of a failure to claim pension credit—the most recent figures show that between 1.1 million and 1.7 million eligible pensioners are not claiming pension credit. I will stop now, but there is much more to be said. The Chamber is aware of the enormity of the problem. It is good to see not just the Celtic nations but all the rural parts of this country represented in the debate. The Minister has a huge job on his hands and we look forward to what he will say in a few moments’ time.

--- Later in debate ---

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

May I begin, Mr Betts, by saying that it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time?

I congratulate the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) on securing this debate. I listened to her maiden speech in the Chamber with great interest and I concluded that, although it was highly unlikely that we would agree politically, she would undoubtedly serve her constituents well. Indeed, we now know those constituents as the people of the new Jerusalem. I also concluded that she was likely to be a formidable advocate for them, and frankly this place can never have enough formidable women.

This debate is one of great importance. More than one in four households in rural areas are in fuel poverty. In sparsely inhabited English communities, every second home has an energy efficiency rating of less than 30, which amounts to a significant health risk. Fuel poverty is a knotty and difficult problem with which the Labour Government struggled. Although we made progress, much more needs to be done. Our concern is that the emerging political philosophy of the coalition Government may prove to be a significant handicap—that might be putting it mildly.

The coalition agreement brags about the way the two governing parties were brought together by a shared ideology that is antithetical to Government intervention. It says that they

“share a conviction that the days of big government are over”.

However, there are times when Government leadership is necessary and when the market will not solve a problem. Climate change, for example, is, in itself, the ultimate failure of the market economy. There are times when we need to intervene. Furthermore, the effectiveness of Government intervention must be measured and quantified, so that we can account to the public for the spending of their money.

We have heard from the Secretary of State for Energy and Climate Change that he did not have any Government targets for the creation of green jobs and that he did not want to borrow our targets, for fear of seeming to copy the Soviet Union’s Gosplan. However, that judgment is wrong. I urge the ministerial team to reconsider their attitude to targets. In relation to fuel poverty, my first question to the Minister is this: will the coalition keep our 2016 fuel poverty target? If it will not do so, how many people do the Government intend to lift out of fuel poverty by any of their schemes, in either rural or urban areas?

Throughout my contribution, I will put a number of questions to the Minister. I asked some of them in a debate last week and during the somewhat rushed winding-up speeches, the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, the hon. Member for Wealden (Charles Hendry), overlooked many of them; I am sure that he did so unintentionally. Therefore, I thought that it might be helpful if I numbered my questions today, for ease of reference.

My second question relates to access to the grid and fuel poverty. The number of off-gas properties is much higher in rural area than in urban areas. Those properties are dependent on solid fuels, heating oil and liquefied natural gas, but the prices of those fuels are higher and they fluctuate more than gas prices. Households that are off the gas network face typical energy bills of £1,700 per annum as opposed to £1,000 per annum for households on mains gas. What steps will the Government take to increase the number of homes on the gas grid?

Another problem is that rural areas have lower average wage levels than urban areas, and the take-up of Government assistance has been more difficult in rural areas. It costs more for contractors to install energy efficiency measures in rural homes, and there is evidence that consumers in rural areas are less aware than consumers in urban areas of the availability of financial support, so my third question is, how does the Minister intend to tackle that problem, especially in the light of recent budget cuts to the Energy Saving Trust?

Another problem, as we heard from many contributors, is that there are fewer cavity walls in rural areas, and solid walls are harder to heat and more expensive to insulate. My fourth question is, what consideration have the Government given to the arguments in favour of making grants available to the rural poor who cannot be connected to the grid, so they can install microgeneration projects, such as ground source heat pumps? Will the Government consider the findings of the Warm Front pilots on air source heat pumps in areas off the gas network for occupants in fuel poverty?

I encourage the Government to be proactive and confident; if we take action, we can get results. Labour achievements on fuel poverty include Warm Front assisting more than 2 million households since 2000, which National Energy Action described as “an extremely successful programme”. Despite early problems with take-up of the scheme, improvements were made and the number of grants increased in 2005-08. I listened with interest to the criticisms of the hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal of Warm Front, but saying that rural communities such as hers lose out on schemes over and over again is overstating the case. In the past five years, Warm Front has helped 2,000 households in her constituency. My fifth question is, can the Minister give his assurance that Warm Front will be retained?

Under the carbon emissions reduction target, major energy suppliers had an obligation to direct at least 40% of carbon savings to priority group households, so, my sixth question is whether the super-priority group of 15%, which was announced on 30 June, in addition to the 40% priority group, can be contained within it. Seventhly, what will the Minister do to ensure that the carbon emissions reduction target takes account of the greater difficulty and cost of insulation in rural areas? In the Energy Act 2010, Labour put a statutory obligation on energy suppliers to offer social tariffs to those in fuel poverty. Under Labour, Ofgem provided incentives for gas networks to connect deprived communities. Households assisted under the scheme qualified as being within the 20% identified in the index of multiple deprivation.

[Albert Owen]

My hon. Friend talks about incentives for gas networks to be extended and for the grid distributors to take the lead, but is it not the case that we need an agency, a local authority or even a community group to do so? Does she agree that we should look at it in that way? We need to ensure that we have local champions in rural areas because, with the greatest of respect, Ofgem in central London does not understand small rural communities. Agencies must work with local government at a local level.

[Emily Thornberry]

That is right, and, in fact, many of the characteristics to which my hon. Friend refers are part of the community energy saving programme, to which I will return in a moment.

In the Suffolk Coastal constituency, 29,960 people receive winter fuel payments. Eighthly, given the fact that payments have benefited millions of people, will the Minister guarantee that they will continue in the age of austerity? The Government recently announced the dissolution of the Commission for Rural Communities, which I agree is unfortunate, as many hon. Members have said, particularly given that it did a great deal of the analysis on rural fuel poverty that led to significant changes in energy efficiency policy to allow for better targeting of fuel-poor rural households. Everyone knows that Labour did not eliminate fuel poverty and that great challenges remain. Nevertheless, without Government measures, there would have been 400,000 to 800,000 more fuel poor households in England in 2008.

Ninthly, how are the pay-as-you-save pilots established under the previous Government going? Will they run their course and inform the Government’s plans or not? Is the green deal just our pay-as-you-save scheme with a different name, as commentators have said? Tenthly, will the Minister clear up the confusion over whether there will be any form of Government subsidy for the green deal? Will it impose any cost on the public purse? We have had contradictory statements from the Minister of State, Department for Communities and Local Government, the right hon. Member for Tunbridge Wells (Greg Clark), and the Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change, the hon. Member for Wealden, this year. Eleventhly, will the amount available per household be £6,500 or up to £6,500? Twelfthly, will it be more for harder-to-heat homes? In the debate last week, the Minister in the Chamber today told us, with characteristic enthusiasm, about the potential deal with companies such as Tesco, B&Q and Marks & Spencer on the green deal. What will companies get out of this? That was question 13. How confident is he that the private sector will see it as a good proposition?

Most important is my 14th question: how will the Minister ensure that all households that need to improve their energy efficiency take advantage of the scheme? How will the poorest take advantage of it, and how will it work for those on low incomes and those with poor credit ratings? If poorer households do not take up the scheme, does he agree that it will have failed? On 24 June, the Minister’s new boss, the Secretary of State, said at the UK energy summit organised by The Economist:

“Some people—such as the fuel-poor, and those in hard-to-heat homes…—will need extra help because energy savings alone will not be enough. We intend to provide that help by refocusing the obligations on energy companies. Local authorities could also join with energy companies to reach those who live in houses that need it most. Insulation measures are often cheaper if implemented a street at a time. And we are planning to strengthen the Government’s powers to target energy insulation measures on the highest priority cases.”

Does that mean that CESP is saved? Perhaps the Minister will give it another name; I always thought that it sounded more like something that needed a strong dose of antibiotics, but it is a good scheme and the Government should look at it carefully. Will it continue?

At the beginning of my speech, I referred to the profound health problems associated with fuel poverty, and those problems are urgent. If we hit another severe winter this year, there are likely to be tens of thousands of excess deaths. The Government are under an obligation to be proactive, and I hope that they will be.

[The Minister of State, Department of Energy and Climate Change (Gregory Barker)]

I, too, am glad to be serving under your chairmanship for the first time as a Minister in Westminster Hall, Mr Betts. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) on her maiden Westminster Hall speech. She made a fine start in the main Chamber.

It has been a really terrific debate, and I have learnt a lot. It is the first time that I have listened to a fuel poverty debate as a Minister, and it is striking how much cumulative knowledge there is, not just in one party, but on both sides of the House. In the coming months and years of coalition, I hope that we can be inclusive, not only with our coalition partners, but with other parties, because it is clear that concerns about fuel poverty go beyond party boundaries. Although we come from different sides of the political argument, and may have different priorities or apply different principles to problems that lead to different solutions, there is much more common ground on this issue than is often the case. I hope to have an open-door policy and will be open to new ideas from all parties.

We have a radical programme on energy efficiency and we approach it with new vigour and ideas. I appreciate that the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury (Emily Thornberry) is new to her job as well and mustard keen to defend the record of the Labour Government, but we all have to wake up and smell the coffee. She asked whether the Government would keep the 2016 target. Keeping targets is not difficult at all, but meeting them is tough. Her Government, whom she defends, were reversing at speed on fuel poverty despite their best efforts. Over 4 million more people—more like 5 million more—are in fuel poverty than in 2004.

Despite good schemes—the hon. Lady rattled off a number of them—the best efforts of Ministers and a great deal of public spending, we are nowhere close to meeting the fuel poverty targets. We have to do some big thinking, ask ourselves some serious questions and redeploy our resources more effectively to deliver for the fuel-poor, particularly for the rural fuel-poor.

My hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal addressed clearly what everyone in the Chamber feels: the rural fuel-poor get overlooked and are part of a forgotten population. Many of the schemes introduced under the previous Government have treated people’s homes in urban areas. However, the rural fuel-poor often get a worse deal, particularly those who are off the gas network, because there is a lack of social tariffs for those who are off the grid. That issue has been a reoccurring theme of the debate. My hon. Friend is right to be concerned that metropolitan-centric, top-down schemes that are not embedded in their local communities do not always deliver.

It is difficult to find many of the rural poor. The hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) spoke well and reminded us that it is often more difficult to find and treat fuel-poor homes that are in, or surrounded by, areas of relative prosperity than those that are concentrated in a metropolitan area. That is a challenge and it is why such homes have been harder to treat in the past. However, it does not mean they are any less deserving of support and concern.

I cannot commit the Chancellor to anything, because doing so is way above my pay grade. However, I heard what the hon. Gentleman said about the potential for a green investment bank—the Green Investment Bank Commission published its report last week—and I have taken on board his suggestions. I encourage him to have a dialogue with Ministers to discuss such a function for the GIB. I would welcome that opportunity.

The hon. Member for Brecon and Radnorshire (Roger Williams) gave a very good speech. He focused on concerns about competition and ensuring that reforms of competition in the market drive right across and reach target groups that have, so far, not been helped sufficiently.

I was particularly interested in the ideas mentioned in an intervention about supporting and enhancing local group purchasing schemes. When I go back to the Department, I will ask my officials to consider what we can do in relation to that, because the measure does not necessarily involve a lot of spending. I will consider what we can do to try to support and encourage such schemes, because empowering communities is an aspiration that is shared right across the coalition. If one wants to refer to an ideology, it would not be any of those listed by the hon. Member for Islington South and Finsbury. We believe in localism, the need to empower our communities far more and the fact that the solutions to our nation’s problems are not locked in Departments in Whitehall.

I say to the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Mr Williams) that, of course, we are committed to consultation and best practice, not just with devolved Governments, but with local government and communities. Learning best practice is not a one-way street; there is a great deal more that we can learn from what is successful in communities. Although I am not familiar with the triggers for cold weather payments, I know how important they are. I will look into the problems he mentioned and write to him.

The hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen) spoke at length and with great expertise about the extra costs suffered by particularly far-flung areas—not just in his constituency, but in the whole of the British Isles. He focused on partnership-working with devolved Governments, local authorities and communities. I assure him that we are committed to doing that. He also wanted to know what the coalition had to say about off-grid support and protection. The coalition agreement is not a manifesto; it is a relatively tight document. However, he will see that it specifically mentions the need to support and protect off-grid customers. We want to do a lot more.

[Albert Owen]

I hope the hon. Gentleman will not regret offering an open-door policy to Members such as me. He is talking about the coalition and localism, with which I agree. However, there must be more than warm words. Although I agree with the devolution of powers, which I have fought for in referendums for many years, we do not simply need it to happen; we need resources. That is the important thing. Dealing with the issue is not just about passing powers from Whitehall to Cardiff, and to rural areas in Wales; it is about making sure that the resources follow those powers.

[Gregory Barker]

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s comments, but he will also appreciate that we are in a resource-constrained environment for reasons that we do not need to rehearse here. As well as resources, another factor that empowers communities is knowledge. He made a good point about the need for greater transparency about wholesale and retail prices. I agree with him about that, but we also need greater transparency about billing, tariffs and the costs of switching to a different tariff or the best tariff, or paying by direct debit. Those are all important points.

My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston) brought her medical expertise to bear when she talked about the excessive number of winter deaths. She reminded us of the shocking figures that were published last year and of the impact that poor housing has on not just health outcomes, but life expectancy. That helped to bring the debate into sharp focus.

The hon. Member for Angus (Mr Weir) was right to point out that a minority of the population will always be off-grid and that price is important. He made a crucial point about up-front payments and minimum deliveries. I will consider his ideas on section 10 of the Energy Act 2010. I cannot promise that we will act on them, but we will look at the matter with fresh eyes, because we are interested in radical steps forward and new thinking. As I said, we cannot go on as we are.

We have a big plan of our own: the green deal. It does not involve grants, loans or mortgages and it certainly does not involve the very modest proposals—pilot schemes—that the previous Government introduced. The green deal is a bold, unprecedented scheme that will not involve personal debt, as the pay-as-you-save model of the previous Government did.