National Insurance Contributions (Rate Ceilings) Bill (First sitting)

Alan Mak Excerpts

Tuesday 27th October 2015 Public Bill Committees

[Rebecca Long Bailey]

Q 10 Are you aware of what steps the Government have put in place to reverse or amend this legislation in the future, and do you believe that there are any specific triggers that should lead to its suspension?

John Whiting: I have no knowledge of any plans the Government have to reverse this legislation, nor should I. As I read it—and I come back to the job that I have in hand, which is to look at alignment of income tax and national insurance—clearly, the areas that we are looking at could produce recommendations to make some structural changes to national insurance. Those recommendations would go to the Chancellor and Treasury Ministers, and it would then be up to them to consider them and to bring them forward. They would come before Parliament in the normal way and would no doubt lead to a full debate. Could that lead to an amendment to the Bill? I presume that it could, but that is for Parliament to decide. What I would stress is that our recommendations will no doubt be subject to an awful lot of scrutiny and debate. If we come up with recommendations, they will be long-term and it would be highly appropriate to have a full debate on them.

[Mr Alan Mak (Havant) (Con)]

Q 11 The Government have said that the Bill has no financial implications. If a grant is needed from the Treasury to maintain the mandated threshold of 16.7% of expenditure, do you think that this constitutes a financial implication?

John Whiting: I think that, in those terms, the nature of the national insurance fund, certainly as I have seen it over the years, inevitably goes up and down with the economy to a certain extent. The fact that there is a grant perhaps this year is not of itself exceptional. We are back to attempting predictions, which actuaries are very good at in this area, and seeing what the trends are. This is governed by such things as employment, because if more people are employed, earning more, there is more national insurance going into the fund, so potentially less need for a grant. Of itself, if we take the Bill as it stands, the question of a grant or whatever, is subject, as I said earlier, to what the Government Actuary is going to say about the likely outcome and the likely balances on the fund, which will have to take into account economic circumstances and the general position of contributions.

[Matt Warman (Boston and Skegness) (Con)]

Q 12 Given the fall in the national insurance fund, are there implications for continued NHS funding from the fund?

John Whiting: We are back to the question of what the fund is for. It is predicated on paying out benefits, particularly pensions. It is really a question you should address to the Treasury, with respect, because it determines where the money comes from. On an entirely personal level, I do not see a direct connection between the balance on the fund and funding for the NHS, but we are going into areas well beyond my compass with the OTS.