Tata Steel: Port Talbot

Debate between Alan Brown and Nusrat Ghani

Monday 18th September 2023 Commons Chamber

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

Madam Deputy Speaker,

“I’m not going to shy away from the fact that this is still terrible news.”

Those are not my words but those of the Wales Secretary, who is sat next to the Minister. How did we get to a stage where £0.5 billion of UK-wide taxpayers’ money is being used to prop up a deal that is classed as “terrible news” by a Government Minister?

We know that we need to decarbonise, but with this level of taxpayer investment we should be looking at proper, green, virgin steel manufacturing and job creation, not the loss of 3,000 jobs, and not settling for lower-grade steel production from recycling. What will the lower-grade steel production mean for Port Talbot’s ability to supply key UK infrastructure programmes? What UK-based supply chain guarantees are being sought for the £1.25 billion of investment that the Government say is coming forward into the plant? Why were the unions not involved in the discussions? Why were the Welsh Government not involved? Is it not hypocritical to propose to involve the Welsh Government in the taskforce for job losses but not to have included them in the initial discussions on options for the plant going forward?

Not that long ago, the Tata Group also received a reported £0.5 billion for a proposed electric battery factory—another deal lacking in transparency at this stage. How can the Tata Group secure £1 billion so easily from the Government? It is the same with EDF, with more than £1 billion allocated to the development of the Sizewell C nuclear power station. Too many deals are done behind closed doors, based on who has got the Government’s ear and where the Government think there is some political capital. Does it not prove yet again that there needs to be a structured, coherent, long-term strategy to address the competition from the Inflation Reduction Act in the United States and the EU’s green industrial plan? Does it not also prove that in the current constitutional framework and fiscal straitjackets imposed on the Welsh and Scottish Governments, our communities will always be at the mercy of decisions made at Westminster?

[Ms Ghani]

There were so many questions, but I will do my best to address the most important ones. Conversations at Port Talbot have been going on for years—one could argue more than a decade. It is not news that the site needed financial support to ensure that it continued to be viable. Steel companies lose more than £1 million a day producing steel, and it is no longer viable without Government support. That is a route that many countries have taken.

The blast furnaces in Port Talbot can be operated for 15 to 20 years only before a major investment decision is reached, either to be relined or to be rebuilt. There was a very tight timeframe; it was important to find alternative energy—electric—to make sure that it would work with the timeframe of the new furnaces coming on site. That is why it is electric, not hydrogen—there are no hydrogen alternatives that can give us the steel that we need on the scale that we need. This is not only a £500 million investment. There is also £100 million to deal with the transition. As I said, the transition board will comprise union members, staffers, the Welsh Government and the Welsh Secretary of State. The conversation will take place, and consultation will occur. Those conversations have been happening for quite some time.

It is important to note that the sector is now secure. In a part of the UK that is incredibly important to us, thousands of jobs will be created—up to 16,000 jobs in the Celtic freeport proposal, which is linked to the renewables at Port Talbot. That will create even more jobs. Any transition that requires a consultation on jobs is always sensitive, which it is why it is important that the transition board will be stood up to provide the support needed. The site needed to make a decision. The best decision was for it to continue to make steel. That is what we will support it to do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alan Brown and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 29th June 2023 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

I do not think the hon. Gentleman has ever had a positive story to tell about his region, let alone his constituency. We have a positive story on steel, and we have the same challenges as most countries in trying to deal with decarbonisation. We have issues around energy costs that we have been providing all our advanced manufacturing sectors with, and we want to ensure that we diversify our access to different forms of energy.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

Going back to Brexit, can the Secretary of State name one Scottish sheep farmer who is happy with the Brexit deal, or any seafood producers and exporters that she spoke to who are happy with Brexit? Can she name any Scottish farming sectors that are happy with Brexit?

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alan Brown and Nusrat Ghani

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Commons Chamber

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

For a real energy mix we need dispatchable energy such as pumped storage hydro, and in Scotland we have such schemes ready to go, including Coire Glas, Cruachan and Red John, which between them could generate 2.5 GW of power—almost the same as a new power station but at a fraction of the cost. In the BEIS Committee, the Secretary of State told me that he had met representatives of SSE to discuss Coire Glas—a meeting so memorable that SSE does not seem to know anything about it. When are this Government going to get a grip and meet the industry to agree a route to market for pumped storage hydro?

[Ms Ghani]

I think the hon. Member is incorrect. I believe that the Secretary of State did indeed hold that meeting. What I find extraordinary is that the hon. Member will look at the energy mix but exclude nuclear, for example. We need to have everything in our energy mix, and the work that we are doing in the UK has shown that we are going on the right path. Our low carbon electricity sources such as solar, wind, and hydrogen, alongside nuclear, generated over 50% of the UK’s energy last year in February, May, October, November, and December, I believe, so we do have a path forward.

[Alan Brown]

The reality about nuclear is that there is not one successful evolutionary power reactor—EPR—project in the world. Hinckley is a disaster and Sizewell C will not happen in time, if it happens at all. On the energy mix, the UK Government’s inaction has blocked pumped storage hydro, onshore wind was blocked for years in Scotland and we have had the rug pulled from under the feet of the Peterhead carbon capture project three times now. When will this Government finally support and give the go-ahead for the Acorn cluster, which is vital for reducing emissions in Scotland and the UK? Is not this cap-in-hand approach proof that Scotland has energy but not the power?

Energy Bill Relief Scheme Regulations 2022 Energy Prices (Domestic Supply) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2022 Energy Bill Relief Scheme (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2022

Debate between Alan Brown and Nusrat Ghani

Monday 14th November 2022 General Committees

[Ms Ghani]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I am doing my best to represent my right hon. Friend the Member for Beverley and Holderness (Graham Stuart), who is the Minister responsible for this brief. On a good or a bad day, I might look like him; I am not quite sure.

I will give some background to the regulations. The energy bill relief schemes, which I will collectively refer to as EBRSs, and the energy price guarantee—the EPG—have been introduced at pace to protect the public from the effects of soaring wholesale energy prices. The ERBSs are intended for those on non-domestic tariffs and the EPG for those on domestic tariffs. Unconstrained high prices would put significant financial pressure on UK businesses, charities and public sector organisations such as hospitals and schools. They would significantly increase the cost of living for households too. The wider negative effects of such economic pressure would be severe and materialise very quickly in the absence of an intervention of this kind.

The EBRS regulations for Great Britain, the EBRS Northern Ireland regulations and the EPG regulations have been created under the Energy Prices Act 2022, which gained Royal Assent on 25 October 2022. The regulations are essential secondary legislation required to implement the schemes.

I now turn to the detail in the EBRS GB and EBRS NI regulations. The regulations set out that, with few exceptions, all non-domestic customers with electricity and gas contracts from licensed non-domestic energy suppliers will be eligible for a discount. The discount will be applied to the wholesale price element of the bills, and the regulations set out how the discount has been calculated. The regulations cover the process by which the energy supplier is reimbursed by the Secretary of State for the discount. The regulations also give powers to the Secretary of State to delegate this function where appropriate. Further provision is included to prevent suppliers or customers from deriving greater benefit than is intended, to protect the integrity of the schemes. The regulations provide for an additional reduction to be applied for qualifying financially disadvantaged customers, who are supplied under the so called “deemed” or “out of contract” contracts.

The EBRS NI regulations prevent end users outside Northern Ireland from receiving a discount to their bills. Finally, the regulations cover essential operational matters including information, a reporting obligation, enforcement powers and powers to impose civil penalties in respect of missing or defective declarations.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Ms Ghani]

Perhaps if the hon. Gentleman allows me to continue, I will answer his question. To accompany the regulations, we have published a suite of legally binding rules and non-statutory guidance, which provides further detail on how the schemes work.

I turn to the energy price guarantee. The EPG schemes in both Great Britain and Northern Ireland are intended for customers on domestic tariffs. The Energy Prices Act 2022 set out that EPG NI schemes are to apply to those with domestic electricity and gas supply. The EPG regulations define domestic electricity supply and domestic gas supply for Northern Ireland. Those definitions will mean that some non-domestic premises will be in scope of the energy price guarantee electricity scheme in Northern Ireland. That includes some places of worship that have similar metering and tariff arrangements to domestic premises.

These non-domestic premises will receive EPG support instead, since there was no timely way for energy suppliers to disaggregate them from traditional domestic premises with similar metering and tariff arrangements. Both the EBRS and the EPG remain a source of critical support for non-domestic and domestic consumers across the UK. The measures in these regulations are crucial for the effective operation of the EPG and EBRS, and the schemes will complement other large-scale support that the Government are providing for energy and the cost of living. I hope that the Committee will support these measures and their objectives.

[Alan Brown]

On the EBRS, can it be absolutely clarified that the discount is applied to a bill before the non-domestic customers have to pay the money to the supplier, or is it retrospective?

[Ms Ghani]

I think the answer is yes to the former, but when I make my concluding remarks I will ensure that the answer is word-perfect for the transcript. Without further ado, I commend the regulations to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

I thank hon. Members for their valuable contributions to the debate and for their understanding about the speed required to ensure that support is available in Northern Ireland.

Fundamentally, we are trying to provide a wholesale discount that could halve people’s bills, and that is what we are here to do. It is reassuring to know that the schemes are already in force and are delivering support to households and organisations across the UK. I hope that will go some way to assure the public that the Government are committed to taking decisive action against this energy crisis. We are confident that our non-domestic schemes will seek to avoid firm closures and redundancies, and ensure that vital public services and charities can continue to operate over the winter.

The scheme has been designed to operate robustly, and it guards against fraud and gaming. We will continue to monitor the scheme to ensure that support is provided to the people and businesses it is designed to help. We are committed to reviewing the scheme. We will consider how best to offer further support to customers who are most at risk from energy price rises beyond April 2023.

I will do my best to answer all the very sensible questions that were asked. If I do not respond to them all now, be assured that I will make sure that the appropriate Minister’s Department puts everything in writing. I am also very keen to answer the questions raised by Mr Brown, who normally asks for my resignation. This is a rare moment when he has not.

[Alan Brown]

I’m just waiting.

[Ms Ghani]

I will come to Mr Brown first—

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

Forgive me, Sir Roger; my apologies.

As mentioned, the discount will be applied before the business is billed. Another point was raised about the 28 days in arrears. All eligible customers will be eligible for the EBRS discount. The arrears point applies only to the extra discount. Suppliers will apply those to deemed or out-of-contract tariffs.

A valid question was raised about landlords. The Energy Bill Relief Scheme Pass-through Requirement (England and Wales and Scotland) Regulations 2022 and the Energy Bill Relief Scheme and Energy Price Guarantee Pass-through Requirement and Miscellaneous Amendments Regulations 2022, which were laid before Parliament on 31 October and 4 November respectively, set out the requirements for intermediaries such as landlords to pass through the benefits of EBRS, the GB EPG and the GB energy bills support scheme to end users who, for example, pay for their energy through all-inclusive bills.

[Alan Brown]

I thank the Minister for giving way. What I was actually seeking was further clarity on the enforcement action the Government can take to actually ensure that that is happening and that those are being passed on. I am happy for somebody to write to me on that.

[Ms Ghani]

We will make sure that that is in writing. The regulations have been laid, but the hon. Gentleman is absolutely right; we want to make sure that those benefits are passed through.

A question was raised about the £100 payment, which comes on top of the £400 discount. This is what we are here to do today: to make sure that people have all the support they need. The regulations are here to support economic growth and ensure that firms do not close down and redundancies do not happen. The scheme is fundamentally there to support those people and public services. I believe that an impact assessment was published for the overall EBRS scheme across the UK, along with Energy Prices Act 2022. I will make sure that this is emailed to the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun, as well, so that he can look at that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alan Brown and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 18th July 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

That is a fantastic question. My right hon. Friend has captured my imagination, and that of the Roads Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton North (Michael Ellis). I believe that the schemes are in the pipeline, and if I cannot meet my right hon. Friend, no doubt the Roads Minister will, to make sure that the schemes are carried forward.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

Over 90% of community transport operators in Scotland use section 19 or section 22 permits, but changes to legislation will lead to onerous conditions regarding driver qualifications and bus adaptations, and that threatens the existence of these important service providers. Coalfield Community Transport in my constituency believes that the measures will give them up-front costs of £50,000. Does the Minister accept how real these risks are, and will she meet me to discuss the issue and changes that could be made?

[Ms Ghani]

I am more than happy to meet the hon. Gentleman, because I am concerned about the cases that he has raised. I am also concerned that information is not filtering through, and that is creating panic among community transport operators that need not be felt. We have spent a lot of time working with community transport operators and local authorities; I have a list in front of me of everyone to whom we have spoken. Operators can also go on the community transport website, which has further clarification of what needs to be done. If they hold a licence at present, they are eligible to carry on doing their work.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alan Brown and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 13th June 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

I welcome the question. I was at the inter-ministerial group, which I chair, with all the port authorities, and I met Associated British Ports just recently. It is working closely with us to prepare for no deal, and it is excited about the opportunities that we can put forward through Maritime 2050, our 30-year strategy for investment in our ports, both in technology and in our seafarers, to ensure that we are ready for our new opportunities.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

We have had no apology today, and the Secretary of State sits there and lets his Minister come to the Dispatch Box while he shakes his head. The reality is that the next no-deal deadline is October, but we are not going to have a new Prime Minister in place until July and we will then have the summer recess. It will therefore be almost impossible to make proper preparations for a no-deal Brexit in October, yet the Transport Secretary is supporting a no-deal candidate for the leadership of the Tory party. Can the Minister detail any work that is going on just now, or is the Department so reckless that it just does not care, which will result in further chaos and another £110 million down the drain?

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Ghani]

Absolutely. And that should not be the case. We have put together a really good inclusive transport strategy that sets out how passengers can be treated appropriately in all elements of their travel, and the airports should be doing much better. There is an aviation strategy, and there is also quite a big chunk in the inclusive transport strategy. I am more than happy to sit down with the hon. Lady.

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

I was one of the MPs who was happy to support the Guide Dogs talking buses campaign. I even took a trip on a bus blindfold to experience the travel difficulties. It is now two years since the Bus Services Act 2017 was passed, and the Government are still stalling on the roll-out of audiovisual information. All we need is secondary legislation, so can we please have a timetable for when that secondary legislation will be brought forward?

[Ms Ghani]

We are dealing with the responses to the consultation and I will update the House as soon as I can. The hon. Gentleman can rest assured—I chaired the all-party parliamentary group on sight loss and I am very close to this issue. I want to make sure that buses are accessible to people with all sorts of disabilities.

Oral Answers to Questions

Debate between Alan Brown and Nusrat Ghani

Thursday 2nd May 2019 Commons Chamber

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

So far we have had a contract with a company with no ships and illegal procurement practices, which resulted in Eurotunnel winning £33 million in compensation, and then the Minister stands at the Dispatch Box and tells us the £50-odd million cancellation of the current services is the right thing to do as part of the Brexit preparations. Now we also learn that P&O is suing the Department. When did the Minister learn of its action? Will this go through the courts, or will there be another £33 million cave-in as apparently such sums do not matter as they only represent a small percentage of the overall figure?

[Ms Ghani]

I am not going to comment on any procedures taking place in respect of legal action, but if the hon. Gentleman really is concerned about no-deal planning, he cannot in one breath say we have not prepared enough and in the next say we have prepared and now we have to deal with the consequences. If the hon. Gentleman is concerned about no deal, I suggest he think about voting for the deal. It was absolutely right that we respected the needs across Whitehall and procured freight capacity, including for urgent medical equipment and medicines that may or may not be needed; it was the right and responsible thing to do.

[Alan Brown]

I suggest that the Minister should change the record: why should we vote for a deal that we think is a bad deal just to cover up this Government’s incompetence? We have had 89 lorries mimicking the effects of 10,000 lorries, a contract given to a company with no ships, a £33 million out-of-court settlement, another court case looming, and contracts with a 29 March no-deal date that could not be changed costing an estimated £56 million, yet the Government say they have stood down their no-deal preparations as they seem to think everything is okay. What real Brexit preparations work are this Government doing for a possible no-deal exit on 31 October?

[Ms Ghani]

That is such a lengthy question that I feel the hon. Gentleman has already cracked the urgent question to come after these departmental questions. To go over the whole debate about Brexit, we would need far more time than we have now. The public made a decision, and it was our job to undertake everything that would come out of that decision so we have to prepare for no deal. I am not sure whether the hon. Gentleman is criticising us for preparing for no deal or for having no deal in the first place. It was the outcome once we had triggered article 50, and I must say that the work undertaken by the Department for Transport with our port sector was remarkable, with all the officers and directors who worked within the Department to ensure that everything was in place if no deal was to happen. The Department for Transport has a role to ensure that every other Department within Whitehall has what it requires for a no-deal scenario; that is why those contracts were procured and that is why we are in the situation we are in now.

Concessionary Bus Passes

Debate between Alan Brown and Nusrat Ghani

Tuesday 8th May 2018 Westminster Hall

[Ms Ghani]

Bus services in rural areas are a concern —especially in my constituency of Wealden—when we are dealing with an older population and people who might not have access to cars. However, this issue is complicated; it is not just about making sure that there is more money available. Funding is available through the £250 million grant that supports bus services, and the bus service operators grant, with £40 million going directly to local authorities. It is also about making buses accessible and easier to use. I will go on to discuss the other things that we are doing to make buses a far more attractive way to travel, in one’s own constituency let alone across the country.

Before that, however, I will just go on to another issue that the hon. Lady raised, which was loneliness. As part of the Prime Minister’s commitment to deliver a national strategy on loneliness, a ministerial group has been set up: I sit on that group as the representative of the Department for Transport. I am a passionate campaigner—even if I am not doing the cartwheels that the hon. Member for Cambridge wanted—for explaining and sharing how buses are vital in tackling loneliness and helping cohesion.

The benefits of a reliable and innovative bus service are clear—less congestion, greater productivity, and communities that are connected rather than being kept apart. However, we need more people to benefit from buses. That is why we introduced the Bus Services Act 2017, which provides local authorities with new powers to bring about change and unlock the potential for the bus industry to achieve more for passengers than it does today.

That includes a range of powers to introduce franchising or enhanced partnerships, with guidance on how local authorities and bus operators can work together to improve bus services in their area. These could include multi-operator tickets, improved vehicle standards and better connections between transport modes, employment and housing, all of which will drive an increase in bus usage and performance.

That is also why, as I mentioned earlier, last month I announced a change in legislation to protect the national concessionary travel scheme in its current form, so that it can continue to provide free travel for elderly and disabled passengers for years to come. It has been noted that the scheme has a value of £1 billion for 10 million people, which means 929 million concessionary bus journeys, or, on average, 95 bus journeys being taken per bus pass.

The concession provides much-needed help for some of the most vulnerable people in society, offering them greater freedom, independence and a lifeline to their community. It enables around 10 million older and disabled people to access facilities in their local area, and helps them to keep in touch with family and friends. It also has benefits for the wider economy, which was a point made earlier.

The national concession sets a minimum standard available to any eligible person anywhere in England, but of course it does not come cheap. That is why, given the current economic situation, there are no plans to extend the remit of the basic concession any further. However, local authorities have the powers to enhance the offer with discretionary concessions, according to local need and funding priorities. That may include extending the times when concessions are available to include peak-time travel, offering a companion pass for people who need assistance to travel, and offering concessions on different modes of transport. Some 71% of local authorities offer further concessions for elderly and disabled passengers. In Cambridgeshire, there are concessions for the elderly and the disabled before 9.30 am and after 11 pm.

Encouraging bus use among the elderly and the disabled is about more than just concessions. We are doing a lot to make buses more accessible. I draw attention to the comments made by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) on dealing with disability in his family and accessibility. On occasion, when I am allowed to leave this place, I am a carer for my parents, who both have very different disability needs. I know full well the occasional difficulties of being unable to understand which buses are running on which routes when dealing with people with different disabilities.

I will say more about accessibility later, but the hon. Gentleman will know that the Equality Act 2010 requires the bus industry to ensure that buses are as accessible as possible for disabled passengers. Recently we also made announcements to make it clear that priority seating should be for people in wheelchairs. Since 2016, all buses have been required to meet minimum standards, with low-floor access. From March this year, all drivers are required to complete disability awareness training. The next step will be to ensure that all buses have audio-visual announcements, so that people with hearing or visual impairments have confidence that the bus they take will work for them. We plan to consult on those proposals this summer.

[Alan Brown]

I welcome audio-visual announcements. I am one of the MPs who backed the “Talking Buses” campaign by Guide Dogs. Can the Minister give a clearer timescale for when audio-visual information will be mandatory on buses?

[Ms Ghani]

We have had the action accessibility plan, which we will respond to shortly—within the month.[Official Report, 10 May 2018, Vol. 640, c. 10MC.] We are working with the Royal National Institute of Blind People and the charity Guide Dogs. We meet regularly with them to talk about how we can make the information available on all our buses, and in the most appropriate form. Unfortunately, during a trial some passengers complained that too much information was being given out all the time, and that occasionally the wrong information was given out. We are working on that with all the charities involved with people with visual impairments.

The hon. Member for Reading East (Matt Rodda) has talked about concessions for younger people on several occasions. I draw attention to the comments made by the hon. Member for Keighley (John Grogan) that any concessions or free bus service available for younger people has to be financially robust and stand up to the rigour of examination. The Government recognise that public transport is of particular importance to young people, and that the cost of travel can cause difficulty for those seeking education, training or employment opportunities. That is why a trial extension of discounted rail travel for 26 to 30-year-olds has recently been announced. That industry-led initiative to gather evidence on a full roll-out has seen a 100% take-up. The first phase of the trial saw 10,000 railcards sold across Greater Anglia, including Cambridge.

As I mentioned, local authorities have the powers to offer travel concessions on buses to local residents, and there are many examples of that for groups such as students. As part of the Bus 18 partnership between operators and West Yorkshire combined authority, there are half-price tickets for young people up to the age of 19, and pupils wearing their school uniform will no longer have to show a half-fare bus pass. In Liverpool, the voluntary bus alliance between Merseytravel, Arriva and Stagecoach has seen a flat fare of £1.80 for young people, with growth of 140% in bus travel by young people, as well as overall passenger growth of 16%. In Hertfordshire, young people aged 11 to 18 can pay £15 for a card that entitles them to half-price fares on local services.

There is more to encouraging bus use than cost alone. A recent report by Transport Focus found that young people want better access to information about buses. That is why we introduced powers through the Bus Services Act 2017 to require operators to provide better information on fares, timetables and when the next bus will arrive. In addition, a national scheme such as that in place for older and disabled people would require a change to primary legislation, but there are no plans to do that at present. The hon. Member for Reading East will appreciate that this is a complex area and there are no quick and easy solutions. The Department continues to work with local authorities and bus operators on young people’s travel.

I return to the comments made by the hon. Member for Keighley on the robust nature of the budget put forward for free bus travel for the under-25s. Labour originally calculated that policy to cost more than £1 billion, but unfortunately, the numbers were later calculated to be closer to £13 billion. At the moment, that has not reached robust investigation in Westminster Hall.

Laser Misuse (Vehicles) Bill [Lords]

Debate between Alan Brown and Nusrat Ghani

2nd reading: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons
Wednesday 18th April 2018 Commons Chamber

[Ms Ghani]

There is no way that I could stand at the Dispatch Box and contradict my right hon. Friend, given that he spent many months preparing the Bill. No doubt his representations will be noted by the Home Office, and I will raise them with colleagues there personally.

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Mr Goodwill) for his contribution. I was a little nervous when I heard about his piloting skills; I am glad to see him safe and sound in the Chamber. He made valid points about the danger to pilots, air traffic controllers and taxiing aircrafts. He also recognised the work done by the CAA, which provides extra support and guidance for pilots in respect of eye health when they are subject to such attacks.

On the points made by the hon. Member for Kilmarnock and Loudoun (Alan Brown) and my hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and Rainham (Rehman Chishti), the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy has responded following its call for evidence on the market for laser pointers. The Government have committed to take action to improve the frequency and resourcing of enforcement activities at ports and borders, with the aim of improving the safety of the market for laser pointers and increasing enforcement activities against the import of dangerous high-powered laser pointers. We have also committed to provide additional support for enforcement activities around the import of high-powered laser pointers. A grant of around £100,000 is available to local authorities so that they can increase checks and tests.

[Alan Brown]

I appreciate that the Minister has tried to give us a bit more clarity, but the key questions are about the timescales for the provision of additional resources, and about what additional resources will be provided at which ports throughout the United Kingdom.

[Ms Ghani]

The additional resources will be provided not only by my Department, in the form of the £100,000 for local authorities, but by BEIS and border control agencies. Getting the Bill through Parliament is one step towards implementing the restrictions and deterring people from the dangerous use of laser pens. That in itself will raise awareness of the crime and how dangerous it is to point laser pens at different types of transport.

I now move on to the contribution made by my hon. Friend the Member for Gillingham and Rainham, who has spent many years raising this issue, including through a private Member’s Bill. He has met many Ministers across many Departments and is a true champion of his constituency. He raised the valid point of how we collect accurate data about the number of offences that are committed across the many modes of transport. He is right to note that the Crown Prosecution Service does not keep full records of laser-related offences, and I will take that point up with my colleagues at the Ministry of Justice. I hope that he will be patient while yet another Minister tries to address one of his passionate interests by getting a Bill through Parliament.

My hon. Friend the Member for Southampton, Itchen (Royston Smith) has huge experience of this matter, which he was able to convey to Members today. He is a strong champion not only for his constituency, but for pilots across this country. He raised valid points about the safety of pilots and on the maximum sentence of five years. Five years represents the maximum prison term and that would be imposed only in the most serious cases. With such offences, it is important that we have an effective deterrent, and the penalty is in line with those for similar existing offences, such as endangering an aircraft, which also carries a maximum sentence of five years in prison under the Air Navigation Order 2016.

The safety and security of the travelling public will always be a priority for the Government. Given that more than 1,000 attacks on aircraft are reported each year, in addition to those on other modes of transport, we have a duty to act. The new offences will act as a deterrent to prevent these dangerous incidents from happening in the first place, but if they do occur, our proposals will help the police to bring offenders to justice.

We have had a good debate, and I am pleased that there is cross-party support for the Bill. Again, I acknowledge the work undertaken by my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings. I acknowledge, too, all the work that my hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby did as Aviation Minister. Of course, I also recognise the work of my noble Friend Baroness Sugg in successfully steering the Bill through the other place and of the UK laser working group. I am grateful to everybody who has been involved in the debate, and I hope that I have dealt with the points that have been raised. I commend the Bill to the House and look forward to discussing it further at its later stages.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Laser Misuse (Vehicles) Bill [Lords] (Programme)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Laser Misuse (Vehicles) Bill [Lords]:

Committal

1. The Bill shall be committed to a Committee of the whole House.

Proceedings in Committee of the whole House, on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading

2. Proceedings in Committee of the whole House, any proceedings on Consideration and any proceedings in legislative grand committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion two hours after the commencement of proceedings in Committee of the whole House.

3. Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion three hours after the commencement of proceedings in Committee of the whole House.

Programming committee

4. Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings in Committee of the whole House, to any proceedings on Consideration or to other proceedings up to and including Third Reading.

Other proceedings

5. Any other proceedings on the Bill may be programmed.—(Paul Maynard.)

Question agreed to.