Oral Answers to Questions

Adrian Sanders Excerpts

Thursday 14th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Vaizey]

We have made a large allocation of funding to the Scottish Government and they are in the lead on procuring broadband. Should there be any issues arising, however, we would be delighted to have any discussion they need.

[Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)]

T8. What discussions has the Minister’s Department had with the Department for Transport about rail links to seaside resorts in order to fulfil the coalition’s pledge in its tourism strategy?

[Hugh Robertson]

Access to resorts, particularly seaside resorts, is one of the key issues that will drive domestic tourism. The numbers are increasing considerably, but one of the great challenges facing domestic tourism is getting more tourists out of London and into coastal resorts. That is one of the issues we are seeking to address.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Browne]

I hear my Back Benchers saying, “What did you do?” The idea that this social problem began in May 2010 injects an unnecessarily partisan tone into an area that should be beyond party politics. Of course these matters are taught in schools right across the country. I am pleased that the campaign to reduce teenage relationship abuse, which has been effective and welcomed by people of all political persuasions, is being relaunched today. It will focus on what constitutes controlling and coercive behaviour. I hope it will have a compelling impact on boys in particular, but on teenagers of both sexes when they see that campaign.

[Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)]

I am sure the Minister recognises the importance of cross-border co-operation in tackling organised crime such as the trafficking of women and girls. Will he do everything in his power to ensure that Britain continues to co-operate with our European partners on this important issue?

[Mr Browne]

My hon. Friend makes an important point about the need for international co-operation to combat all forms of crime, including the particular form of crime he brings to our attention. The Government are, of course, committed to working with other Governments all around the world to reduce serious and organised crime and its impact on the United Kingdom. That very much applies to other European countries as well.

Animal Experiments

Adrian Sanders Excerpts

Tuesday 5th February 2013 Westminster Hall

[Henry Smith]

The hon. Lady anticipates something I was going to come on to. It would be particularly pertinent to ensure that that was the case when someone had to step in to undertake a procedure, perhaps because the individual who usually did it was off sick, or for another reason. I am concerned that the watering down of the licensing regime could lead to staff being asked to undertake procedures in such a way.

I contend that the personal licence should set formal, legal boundaries with respect to what people are, and are not, allowed to do. The fear is that the new licence will erode the previous protection. The processes that establishments put in place for ensuring that all persons are both trained and competent will need to be robustly enforced by the Home Office.

[Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on securing the debate. Does he think that there ought to be some provision that would protect staff from having to carry out procedures they did not wish to carry out, within the licensing system?

[Henry Smith]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Just as the new licensing system should ensure that people carrying out procedures are properly qualified, people who have an objection to certain types of procedure should have such protection afforded to them. I am grateful for that helpful intervention.

The project licence has already been rewritten several times over previous years, with animal users being fully engaged and account taken of their views. There may be pressure from establishments for the amount of paperwork to be further reduced, but that could seriously affect the ability of the local ethical body and the Home Office to carry out a proper assessment of whether the three R’s of replacement, reduction and refinement had effectively been applied, and so consider the justification for using animals.

Despite the number of animal procedures increasing, recent years have seen reductions in the number of Home Office inspectors and the number of visits they make to research establishments. As the animals in science regulation unit is fully funded through fees paid by those holding licences to use animals, the inspectorate must be re-strengthened and given adequate resourcing to perform all its functions, including providing advice on welfare and promoting good and best practice.

The new Animals in Science Committee—ASC—has a wider remit than the Animal Procedures Committee—APC—had under previous legislation. Completely new tasks include advising ethical bodies on animal care and use, ensuring the sharing of best practice, and exchanging information with the national committees in other EU member nations. Despite the new functions, no extra funding or resource has been made available, and the remuneration for the chair has been withdrawn. The Home Office should demonstrate that it takes the role of the ASC seriously, by releasing the protocol for its operation and resourcing it properly.

There are several steps that would enable the number of experiments to be reduced significantly. One would be to ban the importing of primates for use in experiments. In 2011, 47% of primates used in the UK were sourced from outside the EU. A recent British Union Against Vivisection investigation found that a breeding centre in Mauritius was killing monkeys that were not of the correct size. Another important step would be rigorous implementation of the new regulations, especially those relating to ethical consideration of whether and how animals are used. A third important step would be better implementation of the three R’s—the replacement of animals with humane alternatives, a reduction in animal use, and refinement to reduce suffering and improve welfare. Fourthly, it is important to have an effective system that ensures that all persons involved are well trained in the legal, ethical, animal welfare and three R’s issues, and are fully competent with respect to practical skills.

A fifth step would be to introduce more transparency into the system by repealing section 24 of the 1986 Act, which enables information about animal experiments to remain secret. Other steps would be to set a detailed timetable for the ending of all research not for medical purposes, which could reduce the number of experiments by an estimated 87%, and to ban the most severe experiments allowed by the new European directive. In transposing the new directive, the Government have, unfortunately, yet to rule out those aspects, which means that animals could, for example, be subjected to repeated electric shock treatment to induce a state of learned helplessness or be forced to do exercise until they suffered from exhaustion. Although the transposition is now complete, the Government still have time to issue a policy statement making it clear that no project licences will be granted for such experiments. In particular, more must be done to end suffering that is graded as severe.

Only absolutely necessary animal experimentation should be allowed. To do otherwise is bad science, inefficient and ultimately cruel.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)]

It is a genuine pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mr Sheridan. I congratulate the hon. Member for Crawley (Henry Smith) on securing this important debate. The participants so far have certainly reflected quality rather than quantity.

Over the past few decades, many improvements have been made to the welfare of animals in research laboratories. We banned testing for cosmetic products and toiletries back in 1998, and conditions have improved under strict adherence to the three R’s. Unfortunately, as has been said, the number of animals used in scientific research continues to increase.

The guiding principles for the humane use of animals in scientific research are known as the three R’s: replace, reduce and refine. According to those principles, scientists must prove that there are no alternatives to using animals, use the minimum possible number of animals and refine their experiments to ensure that animals suffer as little as possible. The National Centre for the Replacement, Refinement and Reduction of Animals in Research is the organisation working on the coalition Government’s pledge to reduce the use of animals in scientific research. According to its research, drastic advances have been made in implementing the three R’s. As a result, thousands fewer animals are being used in certain experiments.

The problem of animal testing is global, and progress towards minimising its use has been hit and miss. As of March this year, EU law will prohibit not only animal testing for cosmetics within the EU, but importing any cosmetic products tested on animals outside the EU. Sadly, many companies responding to the growing appetite for cosmetic products among China’s middle classes are abandoning their cruelty-free status and resuming animal testing. Chinese law currently requires all cosmetics to be tested on animals to ensure that they are safe for humans. The law forces cosmetic companies to test every product in that way, even products that have been tested by other means and deemed safe.

There is knowledge within China of how to test cosmetics without animals. A grant from People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals helped train a number of Chinese scientists at Beijing technology and business university to test cosmetic ingredients without using animals. Perhaps we should add the Foreign and Commonwealth Office to the long list of Departments mentioned by the hon. Member for Bristol East (Kerry McCarthy) and involve it in cross-departmental action and discussion on the protection of animals from cruelty.

[Kerry McCarthy]

The hon. Gentleman might be aware that one of my other hats is shadow Foreign Office Minister. I talk to animal welfare groups, and then I meet ambassadors or visiting delegations. People have raised with me the dog meat trade in the Philippines, for example, but the problem is that, if our Foreign Office representatives go over there, that issue will be so far down their agenda that they never raise it. There are far more important issues of trade, defence, security and so on to raise. I accept entirely his point that the FCO should be involved as well.

[Mr Sanders]

I thank the hon. Lady for that intervention.

I hope that the training will ensure that if China changes the law requiring mandatory animal testing of cosmetics, scientists will know how to test products without using animals. The only way that the situation within China will change is if pressure is put on the Chinese Government to change their laws.

The claim that animal testing is needed for safety reasons does not hold up, given that the EU and many countries around the world manage to ensure that products are safe without involving animals. It is important that we all encourage cosmetic companies to put principles before profits and, rather than reversing years of progress, to stay firm by refusing to conduct tests on animals. Testing on animals is not necessary, and the companies that have started using animals again are doing so only to increase their profits.

We have a number of great companies here in Britain, such as The Body Shop, Lush and many others, which refuse to stock products tested on animals. I hope that we can do more to promote such companies and refuse to buy from the growing number of companies that are selling out by needlessly testing their products on animals. I hope that the Minister can give us some reassurance that the Government are aware of the growing problem and will introduce measures to reduce it.

Oral Answers to Questions

Adrian Sanders Excerpts

Monday 19th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Home Department (Mr Jeremy Browne)]

All I can say to the hon. Gentleman is that if members of the public have concerns that they wish to report, they should report them to the police, and if they have concerns about the police, they should report them to the Independent Police Complaints Commission. Obviously, we would expect those authorities to act on the information provided to them.

[Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)]

T3. Some of my constituents have had their applications for indefinite leave to remain returned after months of waiting, only to find that there was an error in their payment details. Why is there a separate verification process for payment details? Why not have one process? That would solve the problem of people going back to the beginning of the queue simply because of an error that is not always of their making?

[The Minister for Immigration (Mr Mark Harper)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that issue. The process for scrutinising applications is such that any payment issues are supposed to be looked at right at the beginning of the process, so that they can be dealt with swiftly. If my hon. Friend knows of specific cases in which that has not happened, I would, of course, be pleased to either hear from him or meet him to discuss them in more detail.

Phone Tapping

Adrian Sanders Excerpts

Monday 6th September 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I can quote from that interview, where Assistant Commissioner Yates said:

“There’s a misunderstanding here which suggests just because your name features in a private investigator’s files, you have been hacked.”

He went on to explain that that was not the case.

The right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) also raised the issue in relation to Mr Coulson. As my hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Mr Whittingdale) has made clear, when the Culture, Media and Sport Committee investigated the matter, it concluded:

“We have seen no evidence that”

the then editor

“Andy Coulson, knew.”

That was the decision taken by the Select Committee of the House.

As the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle said, he looked at the issue last year. He looked at what had happened and the way it had been handled, and he said that he was reassured.

[Mr Adrian Sanders (Torbay) (LD)]

As a member of the Select Committee, I recall that we had evidence that hundreds of people who are the victims in the matter appeared on lists. They would like to know whether information was illegally gathered from them, and the Metropolitan police will not tell them. Secondly, they would like to know what information was illegally gathered and with whom that information was shared. Surely the only way of getting to the bottom of this is a proper judicial inquiry so that people are compelled to give evidence and they give that evidence on oath.

[Mrs May]

I say to my hon. Friend that the matter has been investigated by the Metropolitan police, who did so in very close co-operation with the Crown Prosecution Service and with leading counsel. The matter has also been looked at by the Select Committee of the House. The findings of that Select Committee are clear. The findings of the Metropolitan police at the time that they investigated the matter and then looked again at it last July are also clear. Two individuals were prosecuted as a result of that investigation. The Metropolitan police have made it clear that if fresh evidence is there, they will look at that fresh evidence.