Housing Benefits (18 to 21-year-olds)

Yvonne Fovargue Excerpts

Tuesday 7th March 2017 Commons Chamber

[Caroline Nokes]

The Government are bringing forward the youth obligation in April, which is about making sure that young people who are not in work are undertaking the appropriate training or apprenticeship they need to put them in the best position to move into work.

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

May I return to the definition of “inappropriate to return”? Would that include a case that I have heard about: a young man who was kicked out by his stepfather for being gay, but was told he could return home if he denied his sexuality?

[Caroline Nokes]

Yes. We have been very clear about that. If a young person would find it impossible and inappropriate to return home, they would receive the exemption. The situation outlined by the hon. Lady is absolutely one that we have considered.

Pension Schemes Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

Yvonne Fovargue Excerpts

Tuesday 7th February 2017 Public Bill Committees

[Alex Cunningham]

Yes, it is the responsibility of the regulator to ensure that whatever trusts are set up are stable and ready to go. My point is that, as we have seen, whether we are talking about defined-benefit schemes just looking at the failure of the banks in recent years, there is always an opportunity for catastrophic failure in our master trusts, with perhaps 1 million or 2 million members. I am not convinced that there is provision to protect their interests. Lord Freud referred to this clause as a sledgehammer to crack a nut, considering all the mitigations against the risk that are already in the Bill, but what if those mitigations are not enough?

Again, will the Minister provide the Committee, and people all over this country, with a 100% assurance that the Bill without this clause is enough to protect members? Will he guarantee that no master trust will be in a situation whereby it has failed and has insufficient resources to meet costs? I believe—he has already said it, and I have said it as well—that he cannot guarantee that 100%, which is why the clause needs to stand part of the Bill. By seeking to remove it, the Government continue to go back to the argument that there are enough conditions in the Bill without the clause, such as the Pensions Regulator needing to be satisfied that the master trust has sufficient financial resources to comply with its continuity strategy. There are too many unknown factors out there in master trust world for us to know that for certain.

How can we encourage ordinary, hard-working people to save for retirement and put their trust in a scheme that their company bosses have picked for them when the Government are consciously acting against the clause that could be the safety net? We have seen all manner of pension schemes get into trouble and pensioners have been the losers, so we need systems to be much more robust. Workers need to be confident and assured that the money they have faithfully put aside is given the greatest possible protection.

Another mitigation in the Bill that the Government use to support their argument that the clause is not needed is the regulation of our record management, which will be regularly monitored.

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

If the clause is not needed, why not put it in to give people that extra confidence? People have an historically low opinion of financial institutions, trusts and banks, so surely any extra insurance that will encourage people to have confidence is worth putting in.

[Alex Cunningham]

My hon. Friend is correct. People want to know that everything is 100% safe. I know that the Minister said that we can never guarantee 100% safety, but we are talking about some of our society’s most financially vulnerable people who are investing relatively small amounts of money in their master trust. They are not going to get a tremendous pension—nothing like what a Member of Parliament receives—but they want to know that their small pot will actually mean something for them. That is why we must have those protections.

We were talking about regularly monitored business. How regular—every three months, every two years, every five years?—and what type of monitoring? Can the Government say for certain that, by the time the regulator has identified a problem with record management, it will still be within the timeframe to resolve the issue without a funder of last resort?

The Government argue that the Bill already achieves what clause 9 is trying to achieve, but I must question the real reason why they do not want it in the Bill. If they support the idea of master trusts having regulations in place to avoid a disastrous situation if one failed, why will they not just support the clause? If they are so sure that it would never reach the stage of needing a funder of last resort, what is their opposition to including the clause just to ensure that, in a worst-case scenario when things do not go to plan, there is extra protection in place? Unless, of course, they are ideologically opposed to the concept of a funder of last resort. It would be a safety net; a guarantee from the Government that they will need to do everything in their power to protect workers’ retirement funds. If that is the case, I am disappointed that the Government do not believe that it is their duty to step in when business fails and that they would leave innocent people paying the price.

One argument that the Government Lords kept repeating was that, in the event of regulatory failure and a trust not having the means to finance a wind-up, it will not be members that will have to pay the price, but the Government have yet to tell us who it will be. When a number of master trusts and pension experts are calling for there to be a funder of last resort, why are the Government not listening? We have heard a lot of words in the other place and here today, but we have seen not action. Verbal assurance is not good enough when we are talking about people’s livelihoods in older age. We need action and robust legislation to ensure that we take every precaution. In the absence of greater clarity about the Government’s insistence that the Bill already addresses areas raised in this debate, it is vital that clause 9 is not removed. We should be covering every base in order to say confidently that we have taken every possible measure to protect members’ money 100%.

Oral Answers to Questions

Yvonne Fovargue Excerpts

Monday 21st November 2016 Commons Chamber

[Damian Green]

I am delighted to hear about the figures in my hon. Friend’s area, which reflect the national move that has narrowed the disability employment gap by 2.3% over the past year. There is an enormous amount still to do, which is why we produced the joint Green Paper with the Department of Health. It is a central task for this Department over the next three years, and we will pursue it with as much vigour as we can.

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

T5. New PIP criteria have meant a reduction in the unaided walking criterion to qualify for the Motability scheme from 50 metres to 20 metres. Three of my constituents originally failed under the new criteria and were threatened with the removal of their car if they could not pay for it themselves. Like 60% of appellants, they won on appeal. Will the Minister consider maintaining Motability payments during the appeal process and, more importantly, reinstating the 50-metres criterion?

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Penny Mordaunt)]

That particular criterion, of which I am very aware, is obviously not the sole criterion—many other factors are taken into account. I wish to do more on Motability, and we are looking closely at the whole area.

Housing Benefit and Supported Housing

Yvonne Fovargue Excerpts

Wednesday 27th January 2016 Commons Chamber

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

The confusion and lack of clarity on supported accommodation will have a devastating effect on my constituency. It is curtailing homelessness prevention strategies and jeopardising new extra care housing developments. For example, in Wigan, a need of 500 extra units of extra care housing was identified to meet housing needs, and to reduce the reliance on very expensive residential care facilities and future demands on the health service. That housing would allow people to live independently in the community for much longer—all hon. Members would agree that that would be a great outcome for the individual, the family, the local authority and the NHS.

Two years ago, work started on implementing that strategy, and a scheme comprising 130 flats and bungalows with community facilities at a site in Orrell was identified. A partner, Torus, was selected, the scheme was designed and consulted upon, and planning permission was obtained. Funding was obtained from the Homes and Communities Agency, and the valuable site was transferred at nominal cost. With the support of all, the start date was imminent. I say “was”, because with the change to the LHA rate, the scheme—a £13 million project that we desperately need—has stalled.

That is not the only future project under threat. Eighty units in partnership with Arena in Wigan, and 121 in partnership with Torus in Leigh, are also on hold. What about those projects that are in the process of being built? Wigan & Leigh Homes is building 25 units for older people in Hindley and a 39-unit sheltered plus scheme in Goose Green in my constituency. The financial projections for both those schemes do not now add up unless the Government exempt this type of accommodation from the cap.

I have given some examples of how future schemes are threatened, with the result that there will not be the houses for people to move into the community, but what about existing provision? Adactus Housing and Wigan & Leigh Homes have contacted me about this. Across the borough, approximately 400 properties provide homes for people with long-term care and support needs, ranging from learning disabilities to autism. These are people who are unable to live in, and become a valued part of, the community. Their security, and the ability of others to move from a care setting into this type of accommodation, is under threat due to the high rent and support charges required for such specialist accommodation. In fact, one mother has already contacted Wigan & Leigh Homes about her severely autistic 17-year-old son, saying, “Will I now have to have him in the home permanently?” She had scratches all down her arms where he had attacked her.

[Marie Rimmer]

Does my hon. Friend recognise the case of a 19-year-old with serious mental health problems and autism, who was talked down from a bridge in St Helens, where he was threatening to commit suicide? He was awaiting a mental health bed. The only bed offered to him was in France or Germany. I have written to the Minister about this case and am waiting for a response. What comfort can be given to that young man and his parents?

[Yvonne Fovargue]

I agree with my hon. Friend: there is cold comfort in many constituencies for parents caring for young people with severe autism and mental health disabilities. They are finding their choices on the best place for their sons and daughters becoming limited.

I return to the price that will be paid by people who are homeless or fleeing domestic violence. There will be an immediate impact on some 35 units of dispersed accommodation, which, by their nature, are short-term and for single people, saving them from going into hostels, which are not always the appropriate environment. For example, a young man came to see me whose parents had thrown him out when they found out he was gay. They had also emptied his bank account. All I could find for him was the local Salvation Army hostel, which was not a safe place for him at that time.

A further 100 units of homelessness accommodation, ranging from hostels to young mum and baby units, are threatened. Perhaps I can mention just one of the units I visited. It is a self-contained flat in a block where young mums aged between 16 and 25 and their babies are supported, for a maximum of two years, to live independent lives. They learn from staff and from each other in a safe environment. They then leave with the confidence and skills to live in the community, and be excellent role models, providers and parents for their children. How can we threaten that type of service? What will be the cost, both human and financial?

Women’s refuges provide a safe haven for those who have suffered emotional and physical abuse. They also provide activities to improve their life and family skills. The Government’s solution to this is discretionary housing payments! That is not a solution. It is an excuse to continue with an ill-thought-out policy. No housing provider can build a business model and forecast finances with any degree of accuracy when their client base has to rely on cash-limited payments that are not guaranteed, but payable after all aspects are considered—that is, at discretion. How will we assist vulnerable people to apply for these payments? What will that cost? How many people will be deterred from living independently?

The policy has not been thought through. I welcome the announcement that there will be a review. As it stands, it will affect the most vulnerable and their families, those charged with making sure the best quality of life is available for all, the old, the ill and those at risk—in fact, anyone who is vulnerable at any stage of their life. It will end with increased costs and burdens on other services, for example the NHS. I urge the Minister to listen and to provide the clarity that is needed soon, and not to rely on discretionary payments, so that my constituents and others across the country can have a home that best suits their needs.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

Universal Credit: North-West

Yvonne Fovargue Excerpts

Wednesday 13th January 2016 Westminster Hall

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Nuttall. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for St Helens South and Whiston (Marie Rimmer) on the eloquent way in which she put the concerns of her constituents—indeed, all our constituents—about universal credit, particularly the changes to the working allowance, which will disadvantage working people. That bears saying once more. Such people are taxpayers. There are not two groups—people who pay tax and people who get benefits—because people move in and out. They pay tax and they deserve support, but they will lose money. Some 20,000 people working full time in my constituency will lose money by 2020. That is appalling.

However, as I represent a pathfinder authority, I want to move on to the difficulties caused by the universal credit roll-out and the lessons we can learn to make sure that it goes more smoothly in the rest of the country. Call me cynical, but I worked in the Citizens Advice Bureau from 1986 and I saw the change from supplementary benefit to income support. We now have universal credit. The aim was always to simplify, not to make things more complicated. The basic fact is that people’s lives are not simple. Lives are complicated and a system has to be devised that deals with the complications and issues that people have at different times of their lives. Certain problems with universal credit have been highlighted in the roll-out, such as the mismatch in budgeting periods and the six-week universal credit waiting period. I take issue with what the hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans) said about everyone who is in work being paid monthly. In fact, only half of low-paid workers are paid monthly. Many are paid weekly or fortnightly, so they do not have a cushion to rely on when they first claim universal credit. Anyone who is paid weekly will have one week’s money to manage on for five or six weeks.

There is some difficulty in claiming advance payments, and people are loth to do so. We have seen a rise in debt of 42% over the past six months. People go to payday lenders and suchlike to cover that period of time. There are other delays, without the additional delays in receiving payments. According to the Citizens Advice report, three in 10 have experienced a delay of more than a week beyond the standard five weeks. One in 10 wait more than nine weeks and some wait four months, owing to administrative problems. I accept that things go wrong, but we can look at what happens when things go wrong and at how we can improve that for people.

Confusion about the council tax reduction needs to be looked at, but the major effect of delayed payments has been the increased use of food banks. My local food bank, the Brick, has reported that the majority of people visit because of sanctions and waiting for universal credit—that includes people who are in work. That is a key finding of the survey, which found that 80% have difficulty paying essential household bills such as rent and utilities during these periods. Wigan and Leigh Homes has said that rent arrears have gone up since universal credit came in. People do not realise that they are getting all their money, which is another issue. Many people have been pushed into debt simply because of universal credit.

My local citizens advice bureau reports a much greater level of debt among universal credit claimants compared with the claimants of the past legacy benefits. Some 63% of people say that they have difficulty buying food and feeding their families—a basic human need—which means that the rise in food banks is related in some way to universal credit. I do not think that that can be denied.

I remember claiming a benefit when my husband walked out on me and I had a young child. The whole situation was appalling. I went to the Benefits Agency and felt pretty bad at having to claim benefits. If I had had to go to a food bank as well to feed my family, how would that have incentivised me at that particular period in time to seek work? I was fortunate. I managed to find work within three months, but if I had had to rely on a food bank and wonder where the next meal was coming from for me and my daughter, I am not sure I would have been able to concentrate as much on finding work.

A claimant in my constituency went to my local CAB because they were sanctioned for hundreds of days—not a short period—because they were passed backwards and forwards between jobseeker’s allowance and employment and support allowance. Both teams said my constituent was not eligible for benefit. Ultimately, that person received £4,000 in backdated benefits, and universal credit was put back into regular payment. It is very nice that they got £4,000 in backdated benefits, but how on earth did they manage to feed their family during the time when they were owed £4,000 by the Government?

We need a way to resolve such problems. I would like a universal credit claimant champion, as recommended by Citizens Advice—someone who can look at difficult cases and take responsibility for them. Part of the problem is the fact that no one takes responsibility and people are passed back and to. I do not know about other hon. Members, but I have certainly seen an increase in the number of people coming to my surgeries about universal credit problems since we became a pathfinder. They have to go to their MP because we have a helpline, but advice agencies should have a dedicated helpline. I want to plead for extra funding for advice agencies. Since the changes to legal aid in 2010 when welfare benefits were no longer seen as a legally aidable necessity, less advice has been available from such agencies. Indeed, welfare benefits specialists are having to find other work. We are losing our expertise.

We should have a review before the full roll-out to make sure that when things go wrong, they are quickly resolved and we do not get into a situation in which people are paid huge sums of money backdated, but wonder how they live in the meantime.

The helpline has an 0345 number, which is charged at a fairly high rate on prepaid mobile phones. Constituents have told me that they have run out of credit using their mobile phones to ring an 0345 number, because they have been passed back and to. As I have said before, we need a local number. There should be a freephone number. There should be more phone lines available in offices. Freephone numbers should be available so that people can use the few phone boxes that are available to ring the universal credit number.

[Mr Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con)]

I fully accept what the hon. Lady says. It is absolutely right that we should have a system whereby people are not penalised for phoning to get information or assistance. Perhaps a system should be set up where the person is able to use a freephone number. If not, perhaps they could send an email and be called back free of charge. I do not believe people should be penalised.

[Yvonne Fovargue]

I agree, but, as for sending emails, the local authority did a survey to see how many people in Wigan use the internet regularly and found that 30% have never accessed or even looked at the internet. We need to think about those people. When we look at digital by default as a way of claiming, we need to provide more help for people to claim in other ways and not penalise them with a delay.

[Graham Evans]

The hon. Lady is making powerful points and I do not disagree with a lot of what she is saying. My hon. Friend the Member for Ribble Valley (Mr Evans) also just made a very good point. On digital by default, when I left school there were no computers. I have had to learn how to use computers throughout my life, so I know how difficult it is for people of a certain age to gain access to the internet. Even now, I am not perfect—my children are far better. Does the hon. Lady agree that, in the 21st century, if someone is unemployed and looking for a job but is not very good with the internet and computers, they will not find many jobs in which some form of computer use would not be required at a basic level? It may be that 30% of the hon. Lady’s constituents have never accessed the internet, but as much help as possible should be given to that 30% to enable them to apply for jobs, because I am pretty sure that computers will be involved.

[Yvonne Fovargue]

I do not disagree, but in the meantime people should not be penalised by having to seek help to claim the universal credit benefit because it is digital by default. If they want help to claim, there are agencies that can help, but there is often a delay in receiving an appointment for that. People should not be penalised because they have to wait to claim universal credit simply because they do not have access to a computer. That is another issue to look at.

When claims are refused, people are sometimes confused about why. Again, a helpline number—an 0800 number—would be extremely helpful for those people. When it gets complicated, there should be a named person to help them. I do not think anyone would disagree with the idea that we want to make the system as simple as possible. We know that people’s lives are complicated and that they move in and out of work, particularly those in low-paid work. Anything that makes the transition more simple should be looked at carefully.

[Fiona Bruce]

The hon. Lady has made a number of valid points, and I have great respect for her. We worked together as councillors on Warrington Borough Council and I know that she has in-depth knowledge of the subject, beyond that of many Members, but as I understand it, as part of universal credit a named personal contact is now being offered to help individuals to seek work, as well as to ensure that they access the right benefits.

[Yvonne Fovargue]

Although there is someone available to help them to seek work, I am looking for someone to help when things go wrong—someone with a detailed understanding of the universal credit system, not someone who perhaps has more knowledge of the work environment. People need someone to talk to about the complexities of the universal credit system and how it relates to council tax benefits and local authorities—all the major issues—rather than simply a work adviser.

Trying to make things simpler with universal credit is a laudable aim. We need to look at what has happened in the pilots and how the system can be made to work. I cannot finish without also saying that we need to look at how universal credit can incentivise people to work, which is certainly not done by cutting the work allowance and giving people less incentive to find work.

Funeral Poverty

Yvonne Fovargue Excerpts

Tuesday 13th October 2015 Westminster Hall

[Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. I congratulate the hon. Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck) on her speech and on her work on this issue. I also congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), who very effectively set out the problem that we face. He is a regular attender of the all-party group on funerals and bereavement, and this issue sits regularly on our agenda.

The existing system is not working, the £700 grant is inadequate and only 53% of those applying for a grant are successful. The consequence is that many people are getting into substantial debt. Funeral costs are often unplanned expenditure, and people mostly put it on their credit card. They may go to a mainstream lender, but in some instances they are forced to use backstreet lenders or build up debt elsewhere by borrowing to pay for goods. In some instances, people incur a debt with the funeral director. Of course, one of the funeral director’s roles is to offer a range of prices to families so that they can select a funeral that is appropriate and right for them. Cost is a factor, and the National Association of Funeral Directors has a strict code of practice for adapting funerals to people’s needs and constraints. It is not in a funeral director’s interests to sell a funeral that a family is unable to afford, but funerals are a sensitive time for families and it is not always possible for a funeral director to gather full information about a family’s circumstances and ability to pay. When the bill is finally received by a family, it often comes as a shock. Some funeral directors have put in place their own payment plan to enable bills to be settled over a lengthy period of time, which, in certain instances, leads to debts that the funeral director has simply not been able to recover. The impact on the funeral director, and on the possible costs of other funerals, should be borne in mind.

It is entirely right that the social fund exists, but it needs to be considered. I will take a short moment or two to mention the uncertain nature of the bills that families face. We should have a broader discussion and more openness about the cost of funerals, and greater thought should be given to the options available to people at a much earlier stage in their life. We speak a great deal about planning for people’s old age, and we know that the earlier people start to make such provision, the better. Perhaps people should start thinking about the time that comes post-old age. Instead of funerals being purchased in a very short space of time, perhaps they could build up and plan their funeral for some time.

When I looked into this subject, I was shocked to discover that many schemes are available, but they are not widely promoted, which might be because such promotion is inappropriate. I visited the website of a large national funeral director and discovered that for someone of my age—I was born on 16 January 1957— a basic funeral would involve expenditure of £27.75 a month. It may be that, in the same way as pension provision, if people gave some thought to their funeral at an earlier stage, a big, unexpected bill might be avoided.

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that some pre-paid funeral plans are not protected? My constituent thought they were protected. Their father had died, and they thought, “Fine, there is a pre-paid plan,” but the funeral director had gone out of business and their money had gone. There needs to be protection.

[Mark Pawsey]

The hon. Lady draws attention to the need for some form of regulation in the management of such plans. I am suggesting that we consider greater promotion to raise awareness of such plans so that families avoid receiving a big bill at what is always a very difficult time. This is an important issue. My hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys deserves credit for securing this debate, and I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Oral Answers to Questions

Yvonne Fovargue Excerpts

Monday 7th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Mr Vara]

My Department is keen to ensure that the consumer does not miss out, and we are working closely with the Financial Conduct Authority to ensure that the rules and regulations are fit and proper. If my hon. Friend would like to bring any particular cases to my attention, I would be happy to look at them.

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

Will the Minister tell us when the Government are going to publish the information on the take-up of the Pension Wise service, and what action they are taking to combat the scammers, who have scammed £4.7 million out of people in the first month of the new scheme?

[Mr Vara]

If the hon. Lady has any specific information on that, I would be happy to receive it from her. We will be publishing the figures on the take-up of the Pension Wise service in due course, but I do not have them at the moment. It is a relatively new operation, and we need to give it some time. In relation to dealing with scams, we are working with the Financial Conduct Authority and we are seeking to stem these scams and any others that there might be.