Public Service Pensions and Judicial Offices Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Committee stage
Monday 11th October 2021 Grand Committee

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, it might be helpful—

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

I am so sorry—I am getting slightly muddled. In the interests of clarity, I point out that the amendment proposed is:

“Page 15, line 31, leave out ‘may’ and insert ‘must’”.


I do apologise to the Minister.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

Just for my own clarity, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton, for his comments, but he might like to speak to the amendments in this group, which are 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 and 9.

Sharia-compliant Student Finance

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Thursday 25th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

My noble friend is right. We want everyone with the ability to benefit from higher education to be able to do so. Resolving this issue will therefore make a significant contribution to our widening participation agenda, ensuring that people from all faiths and backgrounds feel that there is support by removing financial barriers to access.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, the Government were able to produce a sharia-compliant version of the Help to Buy scheme within six months from a standing start. So why, after six years so far, have they not produced a student finance scheme, which is obviously to the detriment of Muslim students?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

There is a process in place. I know that the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey, has expressed frustration about its progress, as has the noble Baroness. These changes were mooted in 2012, and there was a consultation in April 2014 and the Government published their response. We then enabled the process to go through Parliament through the Higher Education and Research Act 2017. This is a complex process and it requires time to get it right.

Universities: Racism

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Wednesday 10th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I am aware of the meeting and the letter which Minister Skidmore wrote—on 16 May, I believe. I can tell my noble friend that there have been some replies, so I believe that the message is getting through. However, I am the first to say that there is more work to be done. King’s College London has adopted the IHRA definition, but I believe that that happened before the letter was written. Just to complicate matters, we have to respect institutional autonomy as regards how higher education providers operate, although obviously government has a role.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, last week I was speaking at a sixth-form college where the students were almost entirely black and minority ethnic. They were thrilled when one of their bright girls got a place at Cambridge, and devastated when her father refused to allow her to go on the grounds that she must live at home and go to a local university. What more can be done to encourage ethnic minority communities not to discriminate against girls in this way, and to ensure that they have the opportunities that others have, both before they go to university and afterwards?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The noble Baroness raises an important point. It is important to encourage more females to go to university, when it is right for them, as well as BAME students. I know that a number of universities, including but not exclusively Oxford and Cambridge, are doing a lot of work to try to encourage and improve entries from this particular group, and the work is getting through.

Higher Education Institutions: Spending

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Thursday 27th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I certainly cannot confirm that; it is the first I have heard of it. After this Question I will follow the issue up with my noble friend and find out where he got that information.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, what assurances can the Minister give that universities will still be able to fund the expensive programmes—science, technology, engineering, medicine and so on—as well as the minority programmes, such as less than mainstream languages, which are still vital, if funding from tuition fees is drastically reduced?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

That, again, is a question for the Government to consider on the back of the 53 recommendations. Part of that consideration is looking at value for money and making sure that courses are right for students, that the student experience is right and that the contact time, which was alluded to in the Question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, is right for the course and the student.

Post-18 Review of Education and Funding

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Tuesday 4th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, this report has been long awaited and I do not doubt that the Minister is quite relieved that he is at last able to tell us about it. We owe a debt of gratitude to Philip Augar and his team for the amount of work that they have put into it. It makes some really welcome recommendations on further education and skills, as the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, set out. Successive Governments have neglected the importance of colleges and lifelong learning, so this change of emphasis is to be commended.

Over the last 10 years colleges have had to deal with an average funding cut of 30%, while costs have increased dramatically. Further education is the only part of the education budget to have had year-on-year cuts since 2010. Funding for adult education has had a cut of 62%; in the last 10 years, we have seen total enrolments for adults drop from 5.1 million to 1.9 million; funding for students aged 16 to 18 has been cut by 8% in real terms since 2010; and colleges have been tasked with the new T-levels, which may or may not turn out to be an improvement on the well-respected vocational qualifications which are around at the moment.

We note that Augar’s proposed lifelong learning loan allowance is restricted to a limited range of courses. Mature students may not want to take out a loan late in their careers and this funding model may not work for those who have financial constraints, such as a mortgage or children. Taking out a loan is unlikely to be the most effective way of triggering a revolution in lifelong learning. Will the Minister consider expanding it to cover a wider range of education and training, and to provide grants rather than loans so that no one is unable to afford the education they need to advance their careers? Giving everyone, no matter their age, the right to a free level 3 qualification—equivalent to A-levels—will ensure that no one is denied the basic skills they need to advance their career.

We welcome the recommendation that:

“The unit funding … for economically valuable adult education courses should be increased”.


I still think it sad that the general interest programmes which colleges used to provide have gone. They were a valuable source of social mobility and improved health and well-being. They encouraged adults into learning for the fun of it. I taught French and Spanish classes way back when to people who were inveterate learners, and all the better for it, but those days of happy free learning have—alas—gone.

The capital investment of at least £1 billion is well overdue, as is the recommendation that:

“Investment in the FE workforce should be a priority, allowing improvements in recruitment and retention, drawing in more expertise from industry, and strengthening professional development”.


The FE workforce has been underpaid for far too long.

As was mentioned, anyone who does not have an undergraduate degree will be entitled to a lifelong learning loan allowance. This will allow them to receive tuition fee and maintenance loans for any level 4, 5 or 6 course. It is welcome that the ELQ rules that prevent students receiving public funding for a course at the same or lower level than one they already possess should be abolished for levels 4 to 6. This rule has prevented many people retraining for fresh opportunities.

On apprenticeships, we should also like to see more emphasis on the Richard review recommendations:

“An apprentice must be new to the job or job role”,


and that the,

“upskilling of the adult workforce … should not be bundled with apprenticeships”.

The apprenticeship levy seems to be having the reverse effect of encouraging adult upskilling at the expense of new entrants to the workforce.

It is good that universities offering degree-level courses at level 6 should award an interim qualification to students who complete their first one or two years, allowing those who drop out to still have a certificate to show for their efforts. This might in time encourage credit accumulation and transfer to enable them to take their part-qualification on in the future. This has been on the cards for years and has never found a market. Will the Government encourage a new push for credit accumulation and transfer between colleges and universities?

With many good things in these parts of the review, we do have questions over the university proposals, as the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, set out. We regret that the review has been undermined by a shoddy, regressive change to student loans, which we rather suspect has been influenced by No. 10. How much less will students now repay? This is, of course, a trick question. Graduates will now pay their loans back earlier and for 10 years longer. Most new graduates will pay about £15 a month more than under the current system. Bringing maintenance grants back will ensure that students from the poorest homes do not have the most to repay. Augar’s proposal for student loans for higher further education learners is a good start but it is not radical enough. As our economy changes rapidly, everyone will need to retrain and upskill throughout their lives.

I have some questions for the Minister. First, does he agree that the Government must compensate universities in full if the tuition fees cut goes ahead? We hear that teaching grants should be increased to reflect the loss of funding to universities that a cut in tuition fees will bring. However, the grants should be allocated to reflect the cost of teaching the subject and the subject’s social and economic value. Where will subjects such as ancient history sit and will pure research become a thing of the past? If the funding is not made up, universities will doubtless cut their widening participation budgets and drop subjects that are too expensive to teach; I do not include ancient history in that group. Secondly, will the Government curb the sky-high interest rates put on loans after people graduate? The Government make a great deal from middle-income graduates because the interest rates bear no relation to the cost of government borrowing. Thirdly, given the crisis in NHS recruitment, will the Government bring back nurses’ bursaries?

We probably need to go further. As Martin Lewis has argued, for most graduates, the current system works a bit like a graduate tax, so why not turn it into one? All the frightening language about “fees”, “loans” and “debt” disappears overnight. Students from wealthier families, who bypass the system by paying tuition fees up front, instead pay their fair share. The system becomes more progressive and most graduates would pay a little less. There are, of course, problems with a graduate tax too. We would want to review the proposals to see what impact it would have on widening participation and on universities’ budgets. However, it seems that the Conservatives have encouraged Philip Augar to put a catchy headline on reduced fees above the truth. Does the Secretary of State realise that Augar’s positive recommendations for further education have been undermined by these regressive proposals for student loans? Has the Treasury approved an increase in teaching grants to cover the tuition fees cut? If not, the Prime Minister will have achieved the impossible: charging seven in 10 students more to go to university, but paying universities less to teach them.

Our party would be keen to create personal education and skills accounts, giving every adult over 25 the opportunity to learn for free wherever they want, whenever they want, with careers guidance in place to support them along the way. Good careers guidance is key to much of the benefit in these proposals. The more people enjoy learning and the more they learn, the more ready they are to learn more, which in the long term benefits our economy, making it easier for employers to find the higher-skilled and more creative people they will increasingly need as technology develops. We hope that the Government will support the FE proposals to the hilt, but look again at the changes to tuition fees which may well disadvantage those the Government most want to help.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, and the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, for their comments. I am pleased that he said that there were some positive measures in the review. In answer to her, I say that I am relieved that the review is now upon us at last.

The noble Lord referred to the proposed reintroduction of maintenance grants and teaching grants. The noble Baroness also spoke about this. As they would both expect, I cannot comment on these aspects now but we will certainly look at the 53 recommendations which came out of the Augar review. On teaching grants, as Augar says, many courses produce extremely good value for money and have a high student satisfaction rate but some do not. Under his proposals, the teaching grant perhaps needs to be better targeted. I cannot comment on that, but we are going to look very carefully at what the review has said and report back at the spending review.

The noble Lord raised the subject of tuition fees. The proposed cut in tuition fees needs to be considered in the round, as I said in the Statement. It needs to be considered in conjunction with the proposals on in-study interest rates, the reduction in the threshold and the extension of the repayment period, which he referred to. These things are all related and it is essential that they are looked at with great care. He stated that the Labour Party’s policy is that it would scrap tuition fees immediately. I have known that for a while but it is interesting to have it straight from him. As he will know, the panel in the Augar review set out the principle that:

“Getting the taxpayer to pay for everything is unaffordable. Getting learners to pay all their own costs is unfair to those of limited means. Getting employers to pay for the whole system would put too much emphasis on economic value alone. A shared responsibility, in our view, is the only fair and feasible solution”.


The Government and the panel agree that maintaining an income-contingent repayment system is the fairest way of sharing the cost of higher education between the taxpayer and those who benefit directly. Even early in their careers, at age 29, earnings of students who attended higher education are increased by around 26% for women, and 6% for men, compared to similar students who did not attend. On average, doing a degree has strong earning returns—over £100,000 over a lifetime—as mentioned in the Statement. The repayment system is fair and progressive. Students do not need to make any repayments on their loans until they are earning £25,725 per year. However, we must remember that the 2012 fee reforms enabled the Government to lift the cap on student numbers, since when we have seen record rates of 18 year-olds entering full-time higher education. Having said that, the Government will consider the panel’s recommendations carefully and conclude their review at the spending review.

I also took note of the comment made by the noble Lord on the lifetime cap. That will also be part of the mix. With great respect, I beg to differ with what the noble Baroness said about funding. We continue to engage with stakeholders to deliver a post-18 education system that is both joined up and supported by a funding system that works for students and taxpayers. I point out that since 2012 the total income for universities in England has increased by around £6 billion, and resource per student is at an historic high. The IFS estimates that the 2012 reforms increased real funding per student by almost 25%.

The noble Baroness also spoke about T-levels. The good thing about T-levels, as I have said in the Chamber before, is that they are employer-led. They are put together in conjunction with employers and it is very important that we remember that.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

May I just point out that all vocational qualifications have always been employer-led? That is not something new for T-levels—all vocational qualifications are led by employers.

Higher Education (Monetary Penalties and Refusal to Renew an Access and Participation Plan) (England) Regulations 2019

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Monday 20th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I thank all noble Lords for their participation in this fairly short but interesting debate. I will do my best to answer in short order the questions that were raised on these Higher Education (Monetary Penalties and Refusal to Renew an Access and Participation Plan) Regulations.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, and all other noble Lords for being broadly supportive of these regulations. I welcome the remarks that the noble Lord made towards the end of his speech, saying that it is welcome that more efforts are being made towards access and participation to ensure that more disadvantaged pupils go to university. He is right that there is more to do; I think I said that in my speech.

The noble Lord, Lord Bassam, and the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, raised a point about impact assessments on the fees and penalties. I will spend a little time on that. There was a full consultation on the penalties. The maximum level of penalty is set at 2% of the income that the provider receives through grant funding from the OfS and from tuition fees in a 12-month period, or £500,000. To clarify, by this I mean that the maximum level of penalty is 2% of income, unless that calculation produces a figure that is less than £500,000. If that is the case, the maximum is £500,000. The maximum penalty is set at a level to allow the OfS to ensure that there are visible and meaningful consequences for a provider that is in breach of an ongoing registration condition, without being unduly punitive. The OfS has discretion as to whether to impose a monetary penalty and to set the level of that penalty up to the maximum mentioned.

It is envisaged that the OfS would impose the maximum level of penalty only in the most exceptional circumstances. These regulations set out the factors that the OfS must consider. These factors are intended to help ensure that the imposition of a monetary penalty and the amount of any penalty is appropriate, reasonable and proportionate, given the circumstance of a particular breach of a registration condition. There was broad agreement on these factors in the consultation response. On the question of whether a higher maximum was suggested in the consultation, I can say that no provider suggested a higher maximum penalty in the consultation.

The noble Lord, Lord Bassam, asked about the appointment of a statutory reviewer. I can reassure him that a statutory reviewer has already been appointed to focus particularly on access and participation. This appointment is in line with the principles of public appointments and will be under review. She is getting up and running; we will see what other resources she might need—at the moment, we are perfectly happy that she has a role, but of course it will depend slightly on what the demands of her role are. I hope that is understood.

The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, asked where the money from the penalties will go. Money from monetary and financial penalties, as well as income derived from interest, is required under the Act—under HERA—to go to HM Treasury’s Consolidated Fund, from which government expenditure is funded. This prevents the OfS from imposing penalties or charging interest to raise income. That is a long-winded way of saying that the money goes to the Treasury, which I suspect is an answer that she—

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, is there any way that could be addressed? Surely it would be to the immense benefit of universities if any fine imposed went into a fund to help the very things for which it was imposed—that is, to increase the participation.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I understand exactly the point that the noble Baroness is making. I can certainly take that back to the department, and possibly to the Treasury, but I am pretty sure it is a matter which is tied down; as I have made clear, it is tied down in legislation, and was set out in the Higher Education and Research Act. However, the point is well made.

The noble Lord, Lord Bassam, asked about an impact assessment. No impact assessment was prepared for this instrument because these regulations do not introduce further burdens that would have an impact on businesses, charities or voluntary bodies. A provider’s compliance with its registration conditions—and so avoiding OfS sanction—is within the provider’s own control.

It is worth noting that the mandatory factors in Regulation 4 require that the OfS must have regard to the impact of imposing a penalty on higher education students at the provider in question and on higher education students more generally. The OfS will also take into account other matters that it considers to be relevant, including financial stability. However, with the greater emphasis that the OfS has given the regulator in terms of looking at the providers and their progress or otherwise, there is a process which the noble Lord will be aware of, to the extent that the financial sustainability of the providers is monitored very closely indeed. If there is any hint of difficulties, much closer monitoring will take place. I hope that is helpful.

The noble Lord, Lord Storey, asked about disadvantaged schools and the targets. The OfS is encouraging all the providers to work with schools through outreach access and participation plans, which should include targets set by providers and agreed by the OfS.

In terms of the help that independent schools can give to maintained and secondary schools, the noble Lord will be aware that—I am pleased to say—much work is going on between and by independent schools to ensure that resources, including teaching resources, are given where appropriate to secondary or maintained schools in a particular area. That is deliberately to help to raise standards within the community and give those who are less advantaged a greater chance to go on to either vocational training or a university.

Disabled Students’ Allowance

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Wednesday 8th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I will certainly take the points made by my noble friend back to the department. I hope there was general acceptance and approval of the announcement yesterday about the exclusion decisions and recommendations made by the Timpson review. As the House will know, we are looking to take those forward.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, following on from my noble friend’s Question, do the Government have any intention of issuing guidelines to universities on the acceptable evidence for dyslexia? It seems that, despite the acknowledgement that dyslexia does not go away, some HEIs are still requesting post-16 diagnostic assessments for students to be allowed reasonable adjustments for exams.

Education: Flexible Lifelong Learning

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Wednesday 24th April 2019 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, in 2017 we committed £40 million to test approaches to tackling barriers to lifelong learning to inform the national retraining scheme. This includes £11.4 million for the flexible learning fund, supporting 30 projects to design and test flexible ways of delivering training. We also provide financial support for higher education providers and part-time learners. The independent review of post-18 education and funding is considering further how government can encourage and support part-time and distance learning.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a fellow of Birkbeck, with its historic remit for evening classes for those in work pursuing degree studies. Birkbeck and the Open University, which is celebrating its 50th anniversary this year, have both seen dramatic declines in adult learners since the Government’s policies that changed funding. Will the Minister agree that, for all the fine things he has mentioned, the Government’s response to the post-18 review of education and funding is the very best opportunity to tackle post-18 student finance, broaden learning options, encourage lifelong learning and make progression routes more obvious?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

Yes, the noble Baroness is correct. I am certain that Philip Augar, in his review, will take these matters into account. I also note that the Liberal Democrats have sent some recommendations to Philip Augar; I have no doubt that he will take account of them as well.

Brexit: Research Funding

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Monday 11th March 2019 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I will try to give some reassurance. In all scenarios, the UK will remain fully open to scientists, researchers and students from across the EU and beyond. The Government have prioritised investment in research talent in 2017-18 and 2018-19 as part of the wider government investment in R&D, and have committed to backing UK researchers and innovators by supporting measures in collaborative research, including in small businesses. We are seeking independent advice on this matter from Sir Adrian Smith. We are also considering developing a domestic alternative to Erasmus+.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, the number of applications for European language degree courses fell by almost a quarter between 2012 and 2017. This has clear consequences on the ability of the UK’s workforce to trade, work and network internationally. What are the Government doing to encourage more people to study modern languages? Can the Minister give the reassurances asked for by the noble Baroness, Lady Warwick—that the year abroad, which is often a compulsory part of a modern languages degree, will be fully funded?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

Beyond the guarantees we have given, I can say that there has been a lot of work from the Government to inform and communicate. In January we published a new technical notice providing detailed guidance to organisations and participants, which is further supported by a set of frequently asked questions. We are planning webinars and conference calls for stakeholder groups and beneficiaries in the HE sector, for schools and for further education, because it is very important that students in the UK continue to have those opportunities to travel abroad for experiences.

Schools: Racist Incidents

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Monday 18th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I echo the thoughts of the noble Baroness and pay my own tribute to the noble Baroness, Lady Lawrence. We have an inaugural Stephen Lawrence Day coming up on 22 April, and I am sure many schools will want to take part. We trust the professionals in our schools to act in the best interests of their pupils. What counts is what is happening on the ground. Schools do not operate in isolation so issues soon come to light, and schools work closely with local authorities, regional schools commissioners and their governing bodies.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, now that the Government at last have the power to make PSHE compulsory in all schools, including academies, what steps will they take to ensure that racial and religious discrimination forms an essential part of that curriculum?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

Racism of any kind is completely unacceptable and abhorrent in any setting. The Government are fully committed to eradicating it and are taking several actions. The DfE is providing over £2.8 million of funding between September 2016 and March 2020 to four anti-bullying organisations to support schools to tackle bullying; again, it is action on the ground. Those include the Anne Frank Trust, which we are funding to develop and deliver its “Free to Be” debate programme.

Teaching Excellence Framework

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Monday 19th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

This Government have done more than any other to encourage those from disadvantaged backgrounds to go to university. There is a lot in the question asked by my noble friend. She will know that the 18-plus review, which is pretty wide-ranging, will be looking at all the aspects that she has raised.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, what feedback have the Government had from those universities branded bronze in the review on their ability to attract students, particularly international students? If it has had an effect, that is bad news for the universities; if it has had no effect, surely that is bad news for the TEF.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I think it is fair to say that since our discussions during the passage of the HERA—I hope the House will recognise this—the metrics used, which by the way will be reviewed by Dame Shirley Pearce, have been largely well received. I do not want to prejudge exactly what Dame Shirley will come out with in the total review of the TEF, including the metrics, but so far the response has been broadly good.

Design Engineer Construct Programme

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Monday 5th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I can certainly agree to arrange a meeting for the noble Lord. I would like to give a little more information on the back of the decision that has been made. The qualifications for Design Engineer Construct were reviewed a total of three times during the approval process by the department. After each of the first two reviews, feedback was given to the awarding organisation so that they could improve. Unfortunately, after an appeal, it was still unsuccessful. It is standards that we are talking about here, which are very important.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, it is entirely illogical for such a valuable learning programme to be removed from the league table points, given its value to the built environment. This programme is respected by academia, business and the profession. Can the Minister say what impact assessment was made of the loss of young people developing the skills and knowledge for professional progression in the construction industry, which as we know is desperately short of skilled people? I would also echo my noble friend’s concern that only 2% of the construction workforce is female.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

In answering the noble Baroness’s question I would say that it is not the end of the road, because schools and colleges can offer any qualification that has been accredited by Ofqual and approved for teaching to the appropriate age group, under Section 96 of the Learning and Skills Act 2000. It is up to schools, therefore, to decide whether they want to continue with this particular qualification—although it is unlikely that they will do so, because they are not going to be listed on the performance tables. Again, what we are talking about is the greatest shake-up that we are undertaking of post-16 education since A-levels were introduced 70 years ago.

Student Loan Books

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Thursday 11th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I thank the noble Lord for his questions. The detail in the WMS that we issued yesterday was pretty comprehensive, but perhaps I can help the noble Lord by adding a few things.

Yesterday, we announced the start of the process for the second of these sales. It relates to the selection of loans that became eligible for repayment between 2007 and 2009. They have a face value of £3.9 billion but, for commercial reasons, we cannot disclose what the Government think the retention value is, particularly as we are pursuing this programme of sales. I am sure that the noble Lord will understand. He will know that the Government received cash proceeds of £1.7 billion from the first sale of the student loans and the reduction in the PSND.

Another question the noble Lord raised concerned the proceeds that will be received by the Treasury. Yes, they go to the Treasury and it is up to the Treasury to decide how to spend them. I cannot confirm whether those funds will go to the DfE.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, unlike any other loan available in the UK, repayments for a student loan are paid through PAYE and are dependent on how much somebody earns. Given the multiple problems with student loans, as outlined so admirably in the report by the noble Lord, Lord Forsyth, can the Minister say what consideration the Government are giving to reforming student loans into a graduate tax?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The issue of a graduate tax may or may not be included as part of the post-18 review. What we have made clear is that a matter of taxation, or something related to taxation, should not be included in that. On the question concerning the Student Loans Company, the noble Baroness will know that a new permanent appointment has been made to that company and that matters have been taken forward to ensure that it continues to work as well as it can. It is ongoing work.

Higher Education and Research Act 2017 (Cooperation and Information Sharing) Regulations 2018

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Tuesday 24th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, we on these Benches share the concerns expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Watson, and so eloquently expressed by the noble Lords, Lord Adonis and Lord Lucas. Will the Minister say what data the OfS is likely to share with Pearson? We note that Pearson is the only for-profit organisation on the list; the others are public bodies or registered charities. What is the commercial value of the data that it will be sharing, and will the OfS be charging the awarding bodies for access to this commercially sensitive data?

To pick up on the concerns expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, will data by which students can be individually identified be sent to the OfS by awarding bodies, and, if so, how will the consent of students to this transfer of data be obtained? It is surely important that that should happen. In summary, how will the OfS comply with the Data Protection Act in this, and can the Minister offer us any reassurances on these very disturbing aspects?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Watson, for tabling this Motion. The noble Lord has raised concerns that these regulations create significant powers for the Office for Students to grant access to students’ confidential data to a single commercial provider. He also calls on Her Majesty’s Government to carry out a privacy impact assessment on the regulations. Before addressing the noble Lord’s concerns, I reassure noble Lords that these regulations are very much in the interests of students and taxpayers. They enable the OfS to work appropriately with other bodies to address any potential wrongdoing or concerns about quality, students’ experience, and the management and governance of the higher education system. These regulations are essential for the OfS to do its job well, and will be accompanied by strong safeguards around data protection and privacy.

The noble Lord, Lord Watson, asked about the timing of the laying of these regulations and proper scrutiny. I reassure him that these regulations are absolutely subject to proper scrutiny, as is any other statutory instrument laid under the negative procedure. They are important to the OfS being able to operate effectively as a regulator.

--- Later in debate ---

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I think that it would be wise if I continued with my remarks and then, if there are further concerns, I shall be happy to listen.

First, the noble Lord, Lord Watson, referred to the “single commercial provider” within the regulations, which is Pearson Education Ltd. To reassure him and the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, I emphasise that Pearson is included in these regulations solely in its capacity as the awarding body for HND and HNC qualifications. This is in the same way as other awarding bodies have been included in the regulations—namely, the Scottish Qualifications Authority, Gateway Qualifications Company Ltd and the Vocational Training Charitable Trust.

The OfS would share with Pearson only information that related to the provision of HNDs and HNCs. For example, as happens now between the DfE and Pearson, the OfS might wish to alert Pearson to an issue around the quality of this provision or suspicions of wrongdoing relating to HND or HNC provision. This sharing would be done in the interests of students and the taxpayer. Any data sharing would be underpinned by a data-sharing agreement stating that Pearson could not use that data for any other purposes. This is just one of a range of strong safeguards and protections that will be in place, as I will set out shortly.

The noble Lord, Lord Watson, raised a question about Sir Michael Barber and his potential conflict of interest. There are already information-sharing agreements between the DfE and Pearson. Sir Michael Barber no longer works for Pearson and, in any case, he was not involved in the drafting of the regulations. Therefore, I reassure the noble Lord that there really is no conflict of interest. In addition, if it emerged in the future that the OfS wished to share information or co-operate with any other organisation not currently included in these regulations, and this was to fulfil a function of that other body, I make it clear that this would be possible only by amending the regulations.

The noble Lord, Lord Watson, and my noble friend Lord Lucas asked why Pearson is included and whether awarding the HNC and HND makes it unique. They also asked about transparency surrounding what they can do with the data. I reiterate that Pearson is included only because it owns, designs and awards HNDs and HNCs. The collaboration agreement with Pearson will be published—there is transparency. Data-sharing agreements will not be published, as they may contain commercially confidential information about the circumstances that have led to the concerns that are being shared with the other party.

The noble Lord, Lord Watson, asked whether Pearson can sell on data. The answer is: absolutely not. The information sharing will be underpinned by data-sharing agreements which will specify the purposes of the data sharing, and these purposes will not include selling data. If Pearson did so, it would be in breach of the data-sharing agreement and subject to sanctions by the Information Commissioner—a serious matter.

The noble Lord, Lord Watson, asked about parliamentary scrutiny, and I would like to add to the words that I used. The regulations were scrutinised by the JCSI before they came into force, and there was a debate in the Commons in Committee on this very matter. The inclusion of any new body in the regulations would therefore be subject to the same parliamentary scrutiny and oversight as these regulations have received.

Secondly, the noble Lord, Lord Watson, was concerned about the sharing of students’ confidential data. Data privacy is a particularly pertinent topic in the current climate, and this is precisely why the Government have strengthened the legal framework underpinning data sharing by the OfS compared to the previous regime. I emphasise, however, that the main purpose of these regulations is to enable information sharing at a provider or course level. Personal data would be shared only if there were serious concerns—for example, around fraud or malpractice—and there was a specific need to share personal data to investigate a specific issue.

The noble Lord, Lord Watson, also raised concerns that students’ confidential information will be shared without the consent of those to whom it refers. I reassure noble Lords that any data sharing will be subject to data protection legislation. While consent is one lawful basis on which information may be shared, there are other bases for data sharing; the circumstances will dictate which is most appropriate. The OfS will always seek consent where it is appropriate to do so. However, where data sharing is to investigate wrongdoing or fraud, for example, and seeking consent would jeopardise the investigation, the OfS may rely on another lawful basis for information sharing.

In addition, I reassure noble Lords that these regulations do not oblige the OfS to share any information or to co-operate with any of the bodies in the regulations, including Pearson. They simply make this possible where appropriate. It will be for the OfS, or in some cases the Secretary of State, to decide when to do this, and this will be decided in the context of the general duties and functions of the OfS as set out in primary legislation.

I would like to go further. I reassure all noble Lords that there will be strong safeguards for any data sharing that is carried out with all bodies included in the regulations, including Pearson. For example, any information sharing will be subject to strict data protection laws governing its use, as stipulated by the primary legislation. These regulations do nothing to undermine data protection law. The OfS will also publish its collaboration agreements with other bodies online, including stating where data sharing agreements are in place.

It might happen, for example, that the OfS needs to share information with another body as part of a joint investigation. In this case, the OfS would also create a bespoke data sharing agreement. This agreement would state what data will be shared, with whom and why, on what legal basis, and how it will be processed and kept secure. This would also set out individuals’ rights in relation to their data. The OfS would only ever share data with precisely who needed to see it and only ever precisely what they needed to see to resolve the issue. A data sharing agreement is binding: if any organisation breaches this, the OfS as the data controller would stop this arrangement and, where appropriate, inform the Information Commissioner, who could then take action. Make no mistake: this would apply to every organisation in the regulations, and Pearson would be no exception to this.

I now turn to the final point from the noble Lord, Lord Watson, in which he called on Her Majesty’s Government to carry out a privacy impact assessment on the regulations. I thank the noble Lord for raising this point, because data privacy impact assessments are indeed a useful tool. Under GDPR, however, the Government are not obliged to conduct such an assessment. Furthermore, it would not be appropriate to do so. While the Government, in writing these enabling regulations, have identified the overall situations and reasons where the OfS may wish to share information, the need for a data privacy impact assessment should properly be considered by the organisation that will be sharing the data, once the specifics are known. Much of the data sharing would be in response to emerging concerns: for example, where there are suspicions of wrongdoing. It is only at this point that the nature and extent of privacy risks can be properly assessed and fully effective solutions put in place. The OfS is aware of the sensitivities around the sharing of personal data and takes its responsibilities to safeguard personal data extremely seriously. It will consider whether a data privacy impact assessment is needed, and will carry this out where appropriate, before sharing information that could impact on personal privacy.

I hope that, having put a lot of emphasis on these safeguards, I have reassured the House that data sharing—in particular with non-government bodies, including Pearson—will be undertaken in an appropriate way and for the right purpose, with strong protections in place.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

I apologise to the Minister, but could he answer my question as to whether the OfS will be charging Pearson for the data that it shares with it?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I will write to the noble Baroness with that information. It may not only be a charge; there may be an agreement in place and I would prefer to get the full information to her.

Universities: Contract Cheating

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Wednesday 11th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

There are a number of questions there, but I say at the outset that it is often made clear when individuals sign on for courses that they have to be aware of the punishments for students who deliberately cheat. They include being sent down from university. That is made very clear. Some universities, including Nottingham and Oxford, demand an authorship signature from people submitting essays so that if something has gone wrong and they are seen to be cheating, it is down to them and they have signed for it.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, are the Government aware that the Australian Government have invested millions of dollars in supporting work to combat academic fraud? As my noble friend said, this is an international problem. What international co-operation are the Government considering to tackle this issue?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

We are certainly aware of what some other countries are doing. For example, New Zealand legislated for such offences, as the noble Baroness may know, but there have been no prosecutions so far. Australia, the country that she mentioned, is adopting the same process as us—that is, it is looking at non-legislative guidance. There is no one way forward, so we are keen to continue with the process that we are undertaking.

Disabled Students: Allowances

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Monday 14th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The Welsh Government are entitled to do what they like. However, I say again that the mainstream costs should be covered by disabled and non-disabled students. When it was introduced, 23,400 disabled students claimed for DSA-recommended equipment and software, and the expenditure was £20.4 million. But the main point is that the equipment expenditure of disabled students averaged £870, so we think that the £200 first cost is reasonable.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, the £200 levy will obviously mainly disadvantage those on very low incomes. Have the Government given any thought to adding this £200 levy to the student loan, which might be a more acceptable way for them to pay than to try to find the £200 upfront?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The noble Baroness will know that all eligible students can access maintenance loans, and we believe that it is reasonable for any student to purchase a standard computer through that support. However, some universities provide additional help to students from low-income backgrounds, and some DSA equipment providers allow students to spread the cost.

Industrial Training Levy (Construction Industry Training Board) Order 2018

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Tuesday 20th March 2018 Grand Committee

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, this is familiar ground for me, having moved the draft of industrial training board levy orders in the House on three occasions previously. The order before us enables the CITB to raise and collect a levy on employers in the construction industry. The objective of the levy is to raise funds to meet the CITB’s expenditure on training the workforce across the construction industry to secure a sufficient supply of skilled labour.

There is a strong public interest in a high-performing, efficient construction industry. Construction is one of the largest sectors in the UK economy, with a turnover of £370 billion, contributing £138 billion in value added to the UK economy and employing 3.1 million people, which is 9% of the total UK workforce. We know the construction industry faces many inherent disincentives to train. As Mark Farmer’s report and the Government’s own review of industry training boards identified late last year, construction is a highly fragmented industry, with SMEs making up more than 99% of all businesses. It relies heavily on subcontracting and self-employment, and it is the central role of the CITB to help incentivise firms to overcome these disincentives.

The scope of the CITB covers most construction activity. Construction is an extremely large and diverse industry, covering a highly disparate range of industries and trades—everything from major civil engineering works to private housebuilding. The Government recently published the 2017 update to the National Infrastructure and Construction Pipeline, setting out details of over £460 billion of planned infrastructure investment across the public and private sectors. Looking to the next 10 years, we project total public and private investment in infrastructure to be around £600 billion. This will be challenging; government and industry need to work together to ensure that we have the right people with the right skills to deliver this ambitious pipeline of investment.

We need also need a construction industry that has the right skills to build more homes, including in new and innovative ways. In the Autumn Statement, the Chancellor announced more than £15 billion of new financial support for housebuilding over the next five years, taking total financial support to at least £44 billion up to 2022-23. This will create, fund and drive a market that will raise housing supply to 300,000 a year on average by the mid-2020s. Building more homes using modern methods of construction, including off-site and smart techniques, is a part of this.

The construction industry recognises the important role of the CITB in helping it to attract, retain and develop individuals with the appropriate skills to meet the range of challenges it faces. The CITB recently estimated that 158,000 construction jobs are set to be created over the next five years. The CITB develops the skills of the existing workforce and new entrants into the industry through providing training grants and putting in place strategic initiatives that will benefit industry over the long term and secure a sustainable pipeline of skills. In 2016, the CITB used its levy income to provide £148 million of grants to 16,101 employers, including assisting them with the additional costs of employing an apprentice. In particular, the grant scheme supports and incentivises investment in training for smaller businesses, which carry out the majority of training but generally have greater constraints in their capacity to invest. The CITB also delivers a range of other functions such as sector-wide work on research, developing standards and qualifications and promoting construction as a career.

The CITB was established as an industry training board in 1964. The construction industry has therefore had a levy and grant arrangement for some 50 years. Recognising the need to consider the implications of the apprenticeship levy, increase domestic construction skills and improve the productivity of the sector, the Government recently concluded a significant review of industry training boards, including the CITB, which was published in November 2017. The review concluded that the CITB’s resources and capabilities continue to be vital in supporting the construction industry and allowing it to deal with the challenges it faces. The industry training board review supported the CITB levy being retained alongside the apprenticeship levy. It determined that, because relatively few employers in the construction industry are likely to pay both the apprenticeship and the CITB levies, removal of the CITB levy would mean significantly less funding being available for training, at a time when levels of training need to increase. It concluded that the CITB levy and the apprenticeship levy are complementary and pay for different types of training and employer support.

I now turn to how the order has met the legal requirements set out in the Industrial Training Act. The Act allows the CITB to submit a proposal to the Secretary of State for the raising and collection of a levy. The order can be made only if the Secretary of State is satisfied that certain legislative tests have been met. These include consideration that the amount of levy is appropriate in the circumstances, that the proposals are necessary to encourage adequate training in the industry and that more than half of the employers—who together are likely to pay the majority of the levy—also consider the proposals necessary to encourage adequate training in the industry. The Secretary of State was satisfied that these conditions had been met.

The CITB has undertaken its most extensive consultation with industry to date on the levy proposals before us. The consultation process, also known as the consensus process, has included direct consultation with trade bodies that represent 7,150 employers and 4,000 employers that are not members of trade bodies. The CITB scoped out a range of possible options, entered into discussion with employers to share the developed options and received their feedback before agreeing on the final levy proposal. The levy proposals have therefore been shaped significantly by industry.

Having listened to industry views and recognising the impact that the apprenticeship levy will have on training in the sector, the CITB proposes to decrease the levy rate from 0.5% to 0.35% arising from emoluments relating to people directly employed by an employer. The liability for the levy arising from indirect employment will remain at a rate of 1.25%, and the CITB will continue to use information about net construction industry scheme payments to determine this liability. Of those companies in scope of paying the levy, who together are likely to pay 69% of its value, 76% are in favour of the CITB proposals before us today. In line with the requirements of the Industrial Training Act, the Secretary of State is satisfied that the CITB has taken reasonable steps to ascertain the views of employers who are likely to be liable to levy payments in consequence of the levy proposals.

The order can also be made only if the Secretary of State is satisfied that the exemption thresholds set out in the proposals exempt suitable small employers from the levy. The order therefore provides that small firms whose combined payroll and net expenditure on subcontracted labour is less than £80,000 will not have to pay at all, but will be able to claim CITB grants and access support. Of all the establishments considered leviable by the CITB, it is expected that around 40% will be exempted from paying the levy. In addition, employers just above the small-firm threshold will receive a 50% reduction in the levy payable if their expenditure on payroll and subcontracted labour is between £80,000 and £400,000.

Over three years, the CITB’s proposals are expected to raise about £600 million of levy income, which will be directly invested back into industry. The order will enable the CITB to continue to carry out its vital training responsibilities, and I commend it to the Committee.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing the order. As we know, the CITB has to apply every three years for authority to raise the levy from employers to enable it to continue operating and, as he set out, the industry is fragmented and has high levels of self-employment and subcontracting, and those create disincentives for employers to train and develop the workforce. The CITB is there to support and encourage training, which it has been doing since 1964, so it is well established and recognised throughout the industry.

The reduction of the levy to 0.35% from 0.5% must have been welcomed, as the Minister mentioned, and had the support of the great majority of employers. Of course, relatively few employers are large enough to pay the apprenticeship levy, so even after that is properly up and running, there will still be a need for the CITB to support training.

The Minister said that the two levies are complementary, but I wonder how the CITB levy will work alongside the apprenticeship levy. Will employers be prepared to pay for both, and has any assessment been done of the additional cost and burden on employers? Did the CITB consultation come up with any proposals to widen the apprenticeship levy to include skills, which is a widely mooted discussion at the moment?

The Minister says that the construction industry needs to recruit 158,000 people across the UK in the next five years. How will the Government help the industry to attract recruits, particularly in view of Brexit and the high number of EU citizens who currently work in the industry? What attempts are being made to recruit more women into construction? I am involved with one organisation called Women on the Tools and another called Women in Construction, which work to attract women and girls into the industry. Those who take the plunge find excellent work as plumbers, electricians, roofers and so on, but the macho nature of the workforce can make life difficult for women whose skills and interests lie in construction but who have to face up to being the only woman in the workforce or in training. To meet the skills and needs, women will need to be included.

--- Later in debate ---

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

My Lords, I start by thanking all noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate. I also echo the thoughts of the noble Lord, Lord Watson, who pointed out that it is not just him and me debating this important issue; we have representation from other parties, the Liberal Democrats in particular.

I will go straight in and address a number of questions that were asked about the order, and will start by looking at the apprenticeship scheme, because the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, asked about the levy. Even though I made it quite clear in my opening statement, understandably, she wanted to know a little more about how the CITB levy would work alongside the apprenticeship levy. We see them as complementary. The levy supports the extra costs employers face when taking on an apprentice. I am saying that also because the consultation raised that point as well, so the consultees—the employers—were perfectly happy for the two to go side by side.

The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, and the noble Lord, Lord Stunell, asked about the details of the apprenticeship levy. The CITB estimates that around 900 out of the 28,000 CITB levy-paying employers will pay both the CITB levy and the apprenticeship levy. The two are complementary, as I said, and pay for different types of training and employer support. The CITB provides grants that incentivise employers to take on apprentices and support travel and accommodation costs, but no other sector without an industry training board receives this support. Government funding generally covers apprenticeship training costs, while the CITB’s grant scheme supports the employers with the costs of having an apprentice—for example, wages and tools.

The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, asked about the flexibility within the apprenticeship levy. I think she is probably alluding to a recent debate in the Chamber on this matter. I continue to reassure her that we continue to work with employers and the wider stakeholders on how the apprenticeship levy is spent so that the funding system works effectively and flexibly for industry and meets employers’ skills needs, supports productivity across the country and supports our commitment to delivering 3 million apprenticeship starts in England by 2020. From April 2018, as she knows, we will allow eligible levy-paying employers to transfer up to 10% of the annual value of funds entering their digital accounts to other employers, and we will carefully monitor the implementation of this change. That could include employers in the supply chain of the main employers, which could obviously help with business.

The noble Lord, Lord Stunell, asked about the standards within apprenticeships and why it has taken so long to establish standards, which is a fair question. The Institute for Apprenticeships is responsible for managing the approval of new standards. It is important that we have a rigorous process for approving new standards so that we can be sure that we approve only high-quality proposals; that is an absolute cornerstone of what we are doing on apprenticeships. However, the institute has also been listening and consulting, and planning improvements to make the approvals process faster and better, and it will soon launch a simple, effective, two-stage review process for standards, starting with a root review and then more detailed scrutiny of a pathway support for trailblazers review. Employers will be actively involved in this. I cannot promise immediate improvement, but we are on it and it is important that we step up on speed; employers are telling us that.

The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, raised an important point about diversity. I say at the outset that the Government are committed to supporting the construction sector to increase the gender and ethnic diversity of its workforce to ensure that there are opportunities for all those who wish to pursue construction careers, regardless of their background. It is true that in 2014, women made up 46.6% of the working population, and yet only 14.5% of the construction workforce are women. The noble Baroness mentioned 2%, but I do not recognise that figure. However, the point is that it is very low—too low.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

The figure of 2% is for women doing construction jobs. The additional figure is because quite a lot of them work in office and admin jobs; they are working in the construction industry but not doing the plumbing and the roofing.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The noble Baroness makes a very good point: 2% is far too low for those at the front end. The Government are very much aware of that. The CITB has taken practical steps by developing a cross-industry fairness, inclusion and respect programme, which will invest in activities to make the sector a more attractive place to work in for people of all backgrounds, particularly women.

There is more. The CITB careers hub, Go Construct, provides online guidance and case studies for prospective employees and employers on a range of diversity topics, including gender and race. In addition, the wage gap between women and men is 17% and people with disabilities earn 9.9% less, so there are suggestions that women fail to be promoted once given additional responsibilities. This is another linked area that we are looking at and the CITB is also aware of it. Those points are important.

The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, mentioned the EU and Brexit, asking whether our leaving the EU will reduce skills and our capacity in the sector further. We see this in a different light from her—she will probably not be surprised by what I am about to say—because we see it as an opportunity for industry to invest in its workforce and tackle the long-standing issues around training and productivity. We expect industry, working with government, to offer rewarding careers to a new generation of British construction workers. In parallel, local areas have the opportunity to use housebuilding to create skilled jobs and drive growth. There is more because, as the noble Baroness will know, negotiations are continuing and we will have to wait for their outcome to know what the construction sector will consist of after Brexit.

The noble Lord, Lord Jones, asked about the amount of levy paid by an SME and what is paid by larger housebuilders; that is two questions, actually. As he alluded to, I cannot give a specific example. Perhaps I can reassure him to this extent: as I mentioned, very small employers with a wage bill of less than £80,000 are entirely exempt from the levy, slightly larger firms—those with a wage bill of £80,000 to £400,000—pay a 50% reduced rate, and SMEs receive 60% of all CITB grants in return. I hope there is some reassurance there —without giving specific examples—that housebuilding firms fall into that as well.

Part-time Study

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Tuesday 20th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The noble Baroness has spoken at length on this subject in the past. We are concerned about the decline in part-time study. I can reassure her that the review of post-18 education and funding will look at how we can address this issue further. Indeed, part of its terms of reference include consideration of:

“How we can encourage learning that is more flexible (for example, part-time, distance learning and commuter study options) and complements ongoing government work to support people to study at different times in their lives”.


Beyond the review, as the noble Baroness will be aware, the Higher Education and Research Act placed a general duty on the OfS to consider the means by which learning is provided and specifically mentions part-time study.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, it should be a matter of great concern to see the decline in mature and part-time students at such transformational institutions as Birkbeck and the Open University. Will the Government consider a better-monitored version of the individual learning account, where contributions from learners, employers and government could provide a very effective mix of funding and motivation?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I am sure that the panel will take note of the points made by the noble Baroness. The review covers all post-18 education and funding and it is important for it to look at this area. In addition to this, since 2012-13 we have provided tuition fee loans for part-time courses, and in 2018-19 we intend to introduce full-time-equivalent part-time maintenance loans, so there is some further action ongoing.

Apprenticeships: Levy

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Tuesday 13th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, a recent report showed that the UK skills shortage is leading to an estimated £7.3 billion annual loss in sales to SMEs, equivalent to approximately 250,000 jobs. The Minister has already mentioned some help to be given to SMEs, but what is the apprenticeship levy doing to help SMEs meet the acute skills shortage?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I have already mentioned the transfer arrangements. Up to 10% can be transferred by employers to SMEs to help them take on apprentices. In addition, we have a marketing programme under way—I highlight the “A” pin on my lapel in support of National Apprenticeship Week which took place last week, and there was a lot going on on the radio also. I think that we will find that the fall we experienced last year will change and that employers will be taking up more apprenticeships.

Office for Students

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Tuesday 27th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

First, in response to the noble Lord’s comments about the Office for Students, I have made it clear that lessons needed to be learned. Altogether there were 14 appointments, and the process of due diligence normally went well for the other appointments. Let me make it clear, however, that we are learning lessons from the Toby Young appointment. It is important to get a bit of perspective on this. On the student appointment, we have said that lessons need to be learned about the Government’s failure to make it clear that this was an interim appointment. I reassure the noble Lord that, for future appointments, with the lessons learned, this will not happen again. In putting some perspective on this, however, it is in order for Ministers to recommend names, but it is not in order for them to go further than that. They can recommend names, and then it is over to the panel to independently select suitable candidates. On the make-up of the nominations committee, it is led by a number of non-executive directors—three to be precise, but I will need to confirm that with him.

On social media, I feel that I have covered that already, notwithstanding the Urgent Question today. Lessons have been learned on undertaking due diligence in looking at the social media issues that arose over the Toby Young appointment.

As for the noble Lord’s question about the New Schools Network, that is very much a matter for it. The New Schools Network is a small independent charity. I do not want to go further on that front.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, as the Minister said, the Office for Students is an influential and powerful body and should therefore have appropriate people on it. However, given the flaws that have emerged in the way the appointments were made, is it not time for the Government to look again at whether there should be representation from further education and the unions? He has addressed the matter of the student representative—which really needs to be sorted out; there is no great clarity on that—but those other representations would be useful for the Office for Students. Can I also press the Minister on the point raised by noble Lord, Lord Hunt: why was the interview panel an all-male panel?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I think the noble Baroness and I have had an exchange on the make-up of the Office for Students before. It is important that the members of the panel represent a broad range of areas within the higher education sector, and indeed the further education sector. I reassure her that there are some representatives covering further education. However, I also reassure her that that issue will be borne in mind when further and final appointments are made.

Disabled Students’ Allowance

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Tuesday 27th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I partly agree with the noble Lord. As I said earlier, it is important that we give the correct form of support to those who are disabled. It is also up to the individual providers—the universities and colleges—to make the right decisions themselves as to how they can look after those who are disadvantaged and who have disabilities. There is evidence that this is happening, but more should be done.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned the additional expenses that disabled students often have. What is the Government’s response to the disincentive of the £200 charge for any computer equipment that is imposed on any disabled student to get the technology that they need to assist them? What are the Government doing to help the students with that additional charge?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The £200 student contribution towards the cost of a computer is something that all students get. I realise that some evidence and figures show a reduction in the cost. We are looking into that but we are adamant that all students, disabled or not, should receive the £200.

Higher Education (Access and Participation Plans) (England) Regulations 2018

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Monday 22nd January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

We still maintain that we want institutions to think imaginatively about the support that individual students might need, and we will support them in that. That is because each institution is different: they have different needs and courses, and are based in different parts of the country. We think it is absolutely essential that they be allowed to decide for themselves how disabled students, including those with dyslexia, are looked after. I know that we and the noble Lord do not agree on this. Institutions vary in size, and within institutions there can be great variation in the way courses are actually delivered. Disabled students vary greatly in the type and level of support they require to complete their course successfully. The sector is moving towards greater inclusivity, but I am also aware that both the sector as a whole and particular institutions need to do more. However, we do not think being more prescriptive is the way forward.

The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, asked why there were no further education representatives on the OfS board. She has written a letter to me about this, and I have promised to reply. I asked today when that letter is due—it is coming shortly. Notwithstanding that, I will try and answer the question. Schedule 1 to the Higher Education Research Act 2017 sets out the desirable criteria for the composition of the OfS board, which Ministers have to have regard to in making appointments. These criteria were subject to a rigorous parliamentary debate about whether particular representation was necessary to enable the board to operate effectively—for example, a representative from the further education sector. Parliament concluded that there should not be a requirement for specific representation from every single part of the sector that might have an interest in higher education or in the OfS. Instead, the criteria to which the Secretary of State must have regard include the desirability of having members with experience of “providing higher education” and members from,

“a broad range of the different types of English higher education providers”.

We believe that the board as a whole meets these criteria. However, I am absolutely aware of the importance of further education and of the points made by the noble Baroness. The letter may tell us more, but that is the answer I can give at this stage.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

If they are to represent a broad variety of providers, should further education not be within that broad variety?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

That point has already been noted but I will take it back to the department.

The noble Baroness also raised the issue of retention rates, saying that they had worsened recently. This is certainly an issue we are looking at closely, and we have put in place policies to ensure that universities remain focused on it. These regulations extend the remit of access agreements to become access and participation plans, the intention being that they will support both access and student success for disadvantaged groups. The TEF will use non-continuation rates as a core metric when ascribing gold, silver or bronze status to individual universities, although—before a noble Lord intervenes—this method of assessment is going to be subject to a review.

The new transparency condition created by HERA will require many higher education providers to publish their completion rates, broken down by gender, ethnicity and socioeconomic background. Making this data public will shine a light on providers that are underperforming in this area. Transparency is very important.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Garden and Lady Blackstone, and the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, spoke about part-time study. That is very important, as it was in our discussions during consideration of the Bill. We have been taking steps to help those wanting to study part-time by offering financial support in the form of loans to cover fees and maintenance costs. We are working towards launching a new maintenance loan for part-time students studying degree-level courses from August this year. In addition, the Government are looking at ways of promoting and supporting a wide variety of flexible and part-time ways of learning.

For example, we are consulting on how we can help to make accelerated degrees more commonly available, a subject which the noble Baroness, Lady Garden, and I were wholly involved in this morning. Shorter courses offer to students the benefits of lower costs, more intensive study and a quicker return to the workplace. I know that mature and part-time students is a subject of interest here, and it is one of the areas the Government asked the Director of Fair Access to consider in the latest guidance—which, by the way, goes back to February 2016.

The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, asked what happens to an access and participation plan if there is a change to the provider—maybe it is sold or taken over. Under the regulatory framework proposals on which we consulted on behalf of the OfS, we suggest that any provider that is sold or is merging with another provider must notify the OfS as soon as reasonably possible. The OfS will then carry out a risk assessment and review what impact this change will have on the provider’s registration status. The outcome will determine whether any further regulatory action is required, such as the imposition of specific registration conditions and perhaps increased monitoring.

The noble Baroness asked what the Government were doing to ensure that more students from BME backgrounds could access and participate in higher education, which is a good point. We have seen record numbers of BME students going into higher education over recent years, and entry rates for all ethnic groups increased in 2017, reaching the highest recorded level. Black 18 year-olds have seen the largest increase in entry rates to full-time higher education over the period, increasing from 27% in 2009 to 40.4% in 2017, a proportional increase of 50%. Gaps in retention between black and white students have also narrowed. However, there is more to do. We are introducing further measures through HERA to tackle equality of opportunity. This includes the transparency condition, which will for the first time require all universities to publish applications, offers and acceptance rates broken down by gender, ethnicity and socioeconomic background.

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, asked about the Toby Young point. I know we had a debate during an Oral Question not so long ago and I do not think anything has changed. This is an issue that was unfortunate. The process and the due diligence that was gone through for his appointment were absolutely fine up until the point where we were not in a position to look at the 50,000 or so tweets that Mr Young sent. I pledged to the House that we have a “lessons learned” exercise on the go on that. Representation on the OfS board was debated in Parliament, and the make-up of the board complies with the requirements of the criteria set out in the Higher Education and Research Act. At the moment, during the “lessons learned” approach, we have not yet decided when the last position on the board will be decided. That is something we are considering very carefully in the light of what has happened.

The noble Lord also spoke about competition in the sector. He will know that the OfS has duties that are clearly set out in HERA, one of which is to have regard to the need to encourage competition where that is in the interests of students and employers. That is, if you will, a break that has been included. I hope that gives the noble Lord some reassurance on the issue.

The noble Baroness, Lady Garden, asked about the new arrangements for access and participation. Once it is integrated into the OfS—this brings us back to the regulations we are debating today—we expect that bringing resources and expertise from HEFCE and OFFA together in a single organisation, while still having a dedicated champion for widening participation appointed by Ministers, will provide a greater focus on access and participation. HERA ensures that the Director for Fair Access and Participation will be responsible for overseeing the performance of the OfS’s access and participation functions, for reporting to other members of the OfS on the performance of its functions.

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, asked why, as he put it, we cannot get the Russell group or Oxbridge to do more on access and higher education. I have already mentioned that 18 year-olds from disadvantaged backgrounds are entering full-time higher education at record rates, including to the most selective universities. However, the noble Lord is right to some extent: more could and should be done. As I mentioned, in the latest guidance the Government have asked the Director of Fair Access to push hard to see that more progress is made at our most selective institutions via the access agreements, and it is an important point. Prior attainment is obviously a critical factor, and universities have been asked by the DFAP to take on a more direct role in raising attainment in schools as part of their outreach activity.

I am not sure I have entirely covered all the questions that were raised but I hope that, with all those answers to a number of questions, I have helped.

Office for Students: Appointments

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Tuesday 9th January 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The due process was gone through. The launch was made in July and after the advertisements were laid they were closed in August. Ultimately, the Secretary of State is responsible for appointments, so the process went through. I will also say—I say this to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, as well— that Mr Young was appointed on merit, on what he had done. That is very separate from the obnoxious tweets that we know about.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, on a broader topic, given that a significant number of higher education students are actually in further education colleges, will the Minister say why the OfS has no one from the FE sector on the board? Can he point to where the champions will be for adult education and lifelong learning on the OfS board?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The challenge in making up the board is to have a broad range of skills and experiences from within the sector and beyond. I can say now, to reassure the noble Baroness, that the board is well represented with experience of higher education, with the vice-chancellor of the University of the West of England, a former vice-chancellor of the private university BPP, a bursar and fellow of New College, Oxford and the chair of a performance and theatre college. It is deliberately meant to be a broad church.

Universities: Vice-Chancellors’ Pay

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Tuesday 12th September 2017 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The noble Lord makes a number of good points. It is not just the level of the vice-chancellor’s remuneration that is important—it is that of senior staff as well. It is important that the vice-chancellor’s salary does not vastly exceed that of other staff. The noble Lord alluded to that. I go back to the responsibilities involved. For example, the University of Manchester’s annual income for 2015-16 was £987 million. It runs more than 1,000 degree programmes. There are nearly 40,000 students and 12,000 staff. There are considerable responsibilities involved. I do not want to defend vice-chancellors, but our aim is to put enough pressure on these institutions to ensure that their house is in order—just as with a private company.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, I do not wish to disparage our great universities; they are a source of great pride to the nation. What is the Government’s view on the pension packages of some vice-chancellors? Some of them have very large lump sums and very generous pension payments, as well as additional salary supplements—all presumably paid for out of public funds. Are the Government concerned about this in any way?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

There was a Question in the House the other day about pension schemes, particularly looking at concerns about the deficit. I hope that I addressed those concerns. We have to look at the package as a whole. We are focussing on vice-chancellors’ pay, but the package includes a pension scheme. I am not going to comment as to whether it is generous or not, but it is a final salary scheme. It is important for universities to take account of the whole package for vice-chancellors, including not just the pension but perhaps also the housing that they are in. This has been in the press as well.

Universities: Teaching Excellence Framework

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Thursday 29th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

My noble friend will not expect me to agree with him. I believe that the results show that every single participating provider has met very demanding national requirements that ensure a high-quality academic experience, delivery of positive student outcomes and the protection of the student interest. I would say also that providers awarded bronze or silver still deliver outcomes that fully meet or exceed the existing high bar for quality and standards in UK higher education. As Chris Husbands, the chief executive for the TEF said, “seams of gold” can be found in many silver and bronze providers.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, can the Minister name any other country which has set up a dubious system of metrics which needlessly damages the reputation of its highly regarded universities? If not, does he not think it would more effectively raise teaching standards if, instead of publicly branding universities as third class, they were all encouraged to train their teaching staff in teaching skills, which are after all very different from the skills required to get a good degree or a doctorate?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I do not share the noble Baroness’s pessimism on this. We believe that the test can be used to enhance the UK’s international reputation and will support our universities to recruit more students by sending a clear message to the world that we take teaching seriously. For example, Coventry has recently used its additional TEF accolade to market itself effectively in China.

Universities: European Union Students

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Wednesday 15th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

My noble friend is absolutely right and, on the statistics for 2015-16, there were 33,700 EU national academic staff at UK higher education institutions, accounting for around 17% of the total academic workforce—so it is an important point. The Prime Minister has been clear that we want to guarantee rights for EU nationals in Britain and British nationals in the EU as early as we can. Our European partners agree with this and, as my noble friend Lord Bridges said the other day,

“the Polish Prime Minister has said: ‘Of course, these guarantees would need to be reciprocal. It is also important what guarantees the British citizens living and working in other member states of the European Union will have’”.—[Official Report, 13/3/17; col. 1719.]

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, among the many concerns of present and potential EU students are not just financial considerations but the fear that they may be refused entry back into the UK if they have spent time abroad—on a third-year abroad scheme, say, or other things that take them out of the country for several months. What assurances can the Government give both to current and prospective students that they will be able to travel freely in and out of the UK in the course of their studies?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

The noble Baroness makes a good point. These are reassurances that we are looking to give, and I reassure her further that we are maintaining our dialogue with the sector about the risks and the opportunities that Brexit presents. Jo Johnson, the Minister for Universities, has established a high-level stakeholder working group on the EU exit for universities, research and innovation.

Higher Education and Research Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords
Monday 6th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I shall not be drawn on that today, my Lords, but the intention here is that we work ever more closely with the noble Lord. I hope that the pledges Jo Johnson and I have given will at least help to nail down further the issues the noble Lord has raised.

I turn to another important issue, mental health, raised by the noble Lord, Lord Storey. We are working alongside the sector to identify measures which will make a real difference to staff and students. This will inform the Green Paper on mental health later this year, of which the noble Lord will be aware. Noble Lords have rightly raised the issue of mental health in higher education throughout our deliberations on this Bill. I say again that the Government expect higher education providers to provide appropriate support services for all their students and staff, including those with mental health issues. However, there is a balance to be struck here, because it is vital that we retain flexibility to enable autonomous institutions to meet the needs of their own staff and students. With that, I ask that the noble Baroness withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his detailed and constructive reply, and all noble Lords who have taken part in what has turned out to be a wide-ranging debate. We have covered part-time students, mental health disabilities, randomised control trials and bursaries, the Director of Fair Access, dyslexia in particular and a range of other issues. There has been quite a lot for us to think about, which we will take away. We may wish to bring back some of the issues at Third Reading. For the time being, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Higher Education and Research Bill

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 16th January 2017 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

My Lords, I can understand the motivation behind this amendment. At the outset, I would like to address a point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins, when discussing definitions. As she will know, we want to encourage innovative approaches, and the question of degree apprenticeships very much comes into that. We wholeheartedly support the need for innovative provision and I want to assure her that the Government are fully committed to degree apprenticeships—this is captured by the OfS’s duty on promoting choice. In the absence of the noble Baroness, Lady Wolf, I would be happy to further discuss this amendment outside the Chamber with her or any other speaker in today’s debate. For now, I shall keep my comments relatively brief.

I fear that this amendment inadvertently goes too far in that it seeks to extend the regulatory coverage of the OfS to all higher education providers as defined by the proposed new clause, including those not on the register. The OfS must focus its resources and regulatory activity where public money is at stake. Extending its duties in this manner—for example, in promoting quality, choice, opportunity, competition, value for money and equality of opportunity—increases the OfS’s regulatory purview and risks decreasing its ability to focus attention where it is needed most; that is, on monitoring those institutions which pass the regulatory entry requirements to the OfS register.

We discussed definitions at some length last Monday. The Bill uses “higher education providers” as a blanket term to mean any provider of a higher education course as defined by the Education Reform Act 1988, including further education colleges providing higher education. This is already defined in the Bill in Clause 77. I very much noted the question raised by the noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill, and which was alluded to by the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, on clarification of what “English higher education provider” means. Although I have, I hope, reassured noble Lords that it is defined in Clause 77, I do feel another letter coming on to clarify to the House exactly what we mean by that. I hope that that is of some help. Therefore, we believe that introducing a new definition is unnecessary and could have unintended consequences.

I understand the sprit in which this amendment has been tabled. However, the OfS’s regulatory role is defined by those providers that it registers. I respectfully ask the noble Baroness to withdraw her amendment.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

I thank the Minister for his reply and note that Clause 77 includes the meaning of “higher education providers”, but not in quite the same clear way that we have set out here. We look forward to hearing a fuller explanation in answer to the question posed by the noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill. This amendment was on a point of clarification. It was not the intention that it sit on the face of the Bill but rather that we have a simple explanation of “higher education” which would include full and part-time students and all the other different points we will come to later in the Bill. Meanwhile, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

Technical Education and Apprenticeships

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Wednesday 7th December 2016 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

My noble friend is absolutely right and I pay tribute to him, and indeed to Dearing, for the part they played in setting up the UTC programme. I remember standing at this very Dispatch Box about three years ago and speaking about just seven UTCs; there are now 48. We continue to look at the performance of the UTC model and learn lessons from those that are open to ensure that they offer a great education for young people who want to follow a technical path and that, crucially, they produce the necessary skills to help us grow our talent.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

What consideration have the Government given to including technical and vocational achievement in school league tables and to encouraging schools to celebrate their apprenticeship leavers with the same pride that they show in their university entrants?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

That is a good point. It is very much up to schools to make those decisions but, again, as part of our campaign—our PR—we are encouraging schools in what they do to give advice on careers in general. This is very much part of it.

Brexit: UK Universities

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Wednesday 20th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

That is certainly one of the concerns that has arisen, and it is why the Minister has acted quickly to attempt to reassure the sector. It is essential that we move quickly to reassure all those who are based here, because it is incredibly important for the UK economy that we have skilled staff and that we have students studying here, because they provide a lot of revenue for the UK.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, the EU makes substantial financial contributions to research in UK universities, amounting to around £1 billion a year. What provision are the Government making to ensure the quality of research in our universities, should that funding be withdrawn?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

This is certainly one issue that will be at the top of the agenda when the discussions start on the future of our relationship with the EU. I am unable to go further on that point at the moment but I reassure the noble Baroness that this is a very important matter.

Bus Services Bill [HL]

Debate between Viscount Younger of Leckie and Baroness Garden of Frognal

Wednesday 20th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 112, 113, 114, 115, 116, 117, 118, 119, 120 and 127. I will also speak to Amendment 112A, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley.

The Bill provides for bus registration powers to transfer from the traffic commissioner to the local authority where an enhanced partnership is in place. This is something that local transport authorities have been asking for to enable the local enforcement of bus standards. The registration function will be delegated for services that run wholly within the enhanced partnership area. Cross-boundary services will have to comply with the requirements of the enhanced partnership but will be registered with the traffic commissioner.

Amendments 112, 113, 114, 115, 116 and 117 clarify the circumstances in which bus registration functions are automatically delegated from the traffic commissioner to the relevant local transport authority. The policy intention is to ensure that registration functions are automatically delegated where the scheme contains any route requirements that affect any services operating wholly within the partnership area.

I believe that may also be the intention behind Amendment 112A, tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, and I thank him for it. No doubt he will want to speak to his own amendment, and I will listen carefully to what he says in a moment. Amendment 113 deletes the existing wording at new Section 6G(4) in Clause 14, as he suggests, and replaces it with a clearer description of the circumstances in which the registration function must be delegated.

Amendment 127 is a consequential amendment that amends Clause 18 to add local authorities to a list of bodies that can reject applications to vary or cancel services if an operator fails to comply with regulations. Amendments 118, 119 and 120 clarify which traffic commissioner functions should be delegated by placing these in the Bill rather than in regulations.

I hope that my explanation of the government amendments satisfies the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, and that he feels able to withdraw his amendment. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, I have to inform the Committee that if Amendment 112A is agreed to, I cannot call Amendment 113 by reason of pre-emption.

[Lord Berkeley]

My Lords, I am very grateful for the Minister’s explanation. This is another occasion when I am slightly concerned that the Minister has answered my amendment before I have spoken to it, but that is the way we have it here. In this case I do not complain; I shall read what he said very carefully and I suspect it will be fine. I do not propose to move my amendment.