Gambling: Fixed-odds Betting Machines

Viscount Younger of Leckie Excerpts

Tuesday 30th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will introduce legislation to reduce the maximum bet for fixed-odds betting machines to £2; and if so, when.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)]

My Lords, as announced in May 2018, the Government will introduce legislation to reduce the maximum stake for B2 gaming machines, also known as fixed-odds betting terminals, from £100 to £2. The Chancellor of the Exchequer confirmed in yesterday’s Budget that the new stake limits will come into effect when the remote gaming duty is increased to 21% in October 2019.

[Lord Griffiths of Burry Port (Lab)]

My Lords, I find it difficult to thank the Minister for that reply. The need was felt and identified, a consultation period was held, results were published, and an impact assessment was brought forward. When the Government announced their readiness to reduce the stakes from £100 to £2 there was universal light shed on a very dark area of British national life, including among members of his own Government.

This is a victory for the bookies. What are their lobbying powers with the Treasury that they have been able to eke this process out to suit their needs and to make huge profits from the results of their endeavours? How can they do that when they disingenuously argue that it takes time to change the machines, even though the evidence shows that they can be changed very quickly? There are too many questions but the overriding one is: why? The Minister is an honourable man. Would he not prefer to be on this side with me, asking the Government that question?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

My Lords, I am happy to give an answer. We have never said exactly when this would come into force.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

It is true. I am delighted that, along with the excellent list of other good news that came out of the Budget yesterday, we are now able to provide clarity on the reduction to £2, which will help to stop extreme losses for those who can least afford them. The answer to the noble Lord’s question about why is to allow enough time for businesses to readjust. We are talking about a good number of jobs here. The Association of British Bookmakers has ascertained that there are about 21,000 jobs and 4,500 businesses. We think that that is a slight exaggeration, but we are talking about big numbers.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I refer the Minister to a reply he gave, on the last occasion the House discussed this, about the targeting of gambling at children and young people. In particular, the development of virtual reality games such as Fortnite, which is specifically targeted at young people, makes the idea of gambling normal. Will he also say a word about the contribution that the gambling companies to which he referred are supposed to make through the levy, to help people who become addicted? As many of them do not pay the voluntary levy, when do the Government intend to make it compulsory?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

As I have said in the Chamber before, we do not intend to make it compulsory. The voluntary system is working well at the moment, but we always keep it under review. The resources that we receive through the levy go towards helping problem gambling. The noble Lord made an extremely important point about the need to protect children. Problem gambling has remained consistently below 1% of the adult population for many years. Much work focused on children is going on, particularly with GambleAware. About two months ago, I noticed in the papers that a well-known TV personality took a machine from her son and smashed it against a table leg. In other words, parents need to take control and make sure that children do not spend too much time on these machines.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

Many of us who have been speaking and campaigning on this issue were appalled yesterday to hear about the further time that it will take to implement this. These machines are predominantly found in the poorest areas. The research is quite clear: they cause huge poverty. On top of that, it is estimated that every day between one and two people commit suicide for gambling-related reasons. That is not only a huge social cost; it is a massive financial cost, far more than the £400 million relevant tax revenue that Her Majesty’s Government receive each year. Surely it is time to do this for the sake of everyone in our country.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I note what the right reverend Prelate says, but coming to this decision was a result of much cross-departmental work and liaison with the industry. Now is the time for clarity, which we have given, and we need to go ahead. We expect the companies to implement this by the date that we have given.

[Lord Storey (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister talks about jobs and businesses, but what about the thousands of young people who become addicted to gambling? What about the 500 suicides? Does the Minister not think it is time to look at the whole issue of television advertising, which the noble Lord, Lord Alton, mentioned? Young men are seen regularly in betting adverts during the cricket, and football players have betting companies’ logos on their shirts. Is it not time that we regulated the industry and looked again at a review of gambling?

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I answered the question from the noble Lord, Lord Alton, about whether the levy was mandatory or voluntary. The Government take suicide prevention extremely seriously and much work is being done, particularly with the National Health Service. Support is available. GamCare provides the national gambling helpline and a national network of counselling services. It is very important that we run this in parallel with the lead-up to the date that we bring in this change to the fixed-odds terminals.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend says that it is going to take another year and, as we understand from the Chancellor, there may be a Budget in the spring. Did my noble friend listen to the strong feeling of, I suspect, almost everybody in this Chamber today? Perhaps it would be possible in such a Budget to implement what should happen.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I will certainly take the noble Lord’s comments back, but the date is fixed.