Driver and Vehicle Agency (Northern Ireland)

Robert Goodwill Excerpts

Tuesday 15th October 2013 Westminster Hall

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

It is the normal protocol for those who speak in Westminster Hall to congratulate the Member who secured the debate and to say that it is about a topical, important issue. I can say, with the utmost assurance, that this is indeed an exceptionally topical, very important issue in Northern Ireland; more than 200 jobs are at stake in the Coleraine area, and more than 300 are at stake in Northern Ireland as a whole. The knock-on effect would be on a total number of jobs in excess of 500.

At the outset, I want to apologise for the absence of my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley), who has worked closely with me on this campaign, as his constituency adjoins mine. Many of the employees involved come from one or other of our constituencies, as they do from throughout Northern Ireland. I want to give a few indications of the wider context before coming to the nub of the matter, in relation to the Driver and Vehicle Agency and the services offered there.

The Causeway coast area and Northern Ireland as a whole have been severely hit by unemployment in recent years. People will ask: has the whole UK not been hit like that? The answer, of course, is yes, but more significantly so in Northern Ireland. We have been cushioned a little by the dependency on the public sector in Northern Ireland. In that context, last week, no less a person than the Prime Minister was in Northern Ireland to try to encourage inward investment, because he, the Government, the Executive and my friend and colleague Arlene Foster, Northern Ireland’s Minister of Enterprise, Trade and Investment Enterprise, realise that because of the dependency on the public sector, we need to encourage inward investment from the private sector.

This is not a case of taking jobs from the public sector and trying to transfer them into the private sector; it is a case of supplementing our existing dependency on the public sector through private sector inward investment. Therefore, the Prime Minister came, last week, to try to bring jobs to Northern Ireland, so the last thing we want to see, as a result of the consultation that closed a few weeks ago, is his Government taking jobs from Northern Ireland. Hopefully, that will not be the case. The north coast has a lower-than-average wage structure, compared with Northern Ireland as a whole, which has a lower-than-average wage structure than the United Kingdom. We can see the absolute dependency not only on getting and creating more jobs, but on sustaining the employment that we have.

The context of the proposed relocation goes back some eight years. I first raised the issue in 2005, when the previous Government were looking at possibly amalgamating driver and vehicle licensing services to Swansea. Thankfully, that was overcome; good sense prevailed eight years ago, when people saw the efficiencies that could be achieved and the service that could be maintained to motorists and others in Northern Ireland.

In terms of the numbers, 230 people are involved in Coleraine and more than 100 are involved in the rest of Northern Ireland through the various sub-offices. The employment of 200 more people, on top of that, depends on the DVA in Northern Ireland. Should centralisation go ahead to Swansea, the total wage loss to the Northern Ireland economy would be in excess of £11 million annually. That would lead to a total economic loss of about £20 million to Northern Ireland, which we simply cannot afford.

I raised the issue with the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, as did many of my colleagues. She made a straightforward commitment:

“It is important that he”—

the Minister—

“takes into account the views of Northern Ireland before he makes his decision.”—[Official Report, 6 March 2013; Vol. 559, c. 944.]

That was an obvious but radical statement. Just two weeks ago, the views of the people of Northern Ireland became absolutely clear, if there was any doubt. A debate was held in the Northern Ireland Assembly. As interested observers of the Assembly will know, there can, just occasionally, be matters of division there on political matters. From time to time, we do not see eye to eye—says he, with a bit of sarcasm in his voice. On this issue, however, there was not only cross-community support, but total and utter unanimity. Not a single voice of dissent came from the Chamber. The voice and views of the people of Northern Ireland were endorsed two weeks ago, on 30 September, when the Northern Ireland Assembly voted unanimously to support the retention of jobs and services at the DVA in Northern Ireland.

I turn to the jobs and services that are provided. In the agency, an assessment has been done on the work force’s composition. Some 73% of the work force are female, many of whom are carers and have other dependants. Any decision to centralise the services in Swansea would have massive implications, not only for the employees, which is obvious, but for all their dependants. Some of those females are part-time employees. The prospect of trying to get other employment in a Northern Ireland that is trying to attract inward investment, as I have just alluded to, is going to be remote. It will be difficult to attract other employment opportunities for the predominantly female staff.

I turn now to the services. An analysis has been done of the services offered by the DVA, and current satisfaction rates are very high. I want to draw a comparison between the satisfaction rates for the services offered in Northern Ireland and those for the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency in Swansea. I do so with a word of caution, because I fully understand that the sheer scale and complexity of the DVLA in Swansea provides a much more challenging environment in which to achieve targets. That is all the more reason, I would have thought, not to add even more to the burden that the people in Swansea already face.

The facts are as follows. For example, a survey in the past 12 months has shown that 95% of the transactions involving changes of registration are completed at the DVA in Northern Ireland within five working days, which is an excellent achievement. The same 95% completion rate at the DVLA in Swansea is achieved in 11 working days. Given the sheer complexity and scale in Swansea, completing changes of registration almost exclusively in 11 working days—95% of the time—is a reasonably good performance, but in Northern Ireland we achieve the same in less than half the time. People in Northern Ireland will be saying, “If centralisation goes ahead, are the change of registration processes going to worsen by more than double?”

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Robert Goodwill)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing the debate. He might be interested to know that I questioned my officials on the issue he raises, because I was aware of the potential problem. I was assured that the differences in refunds are due to the different ways in which the transaction is measured. The DVA’s target is to process and refund within five days, but that does not take into account any subsequent work that may arise in complex cases. The DVLA’s target is measured from time of receipt until a refund has been issued. The time taken to process the transactions is about the same in both agencies.

[Mr Campbell]

I thank the Minister for that explanation. I was going to come to refunds next.

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[Mr Campbell]

It appears to me, and I think to most people, that that would be the case.

The 95% target for applications for refunds is achieved in 30 working days in Swansea; again, allowing for the scale of the millions of people who tax their vehicles, achieving that figure is a challenge. The target in the same category in Northern Ireland is achieved in five working days—95% of refunds are cleared within five working days. Whichever way we cut this, it is absolutely clear that in terms of value for money for a service, a significant service is being offered.

The hon. Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound) made the point, and the work force have repeatedly told me, that there has been under-investment, in the IT infrastructure in particular, for many years. In that context, the fact that the work force achieve such remarkable results is to be cherished and they should be secured for the future.

Recent analysis of the database of customers that the DVA serves shows that more than 60% of DVA customers are aged 44 and older. As we all know, that age group is less likely to be IT literate or to be online to take advantage of registration via a computer. The vast bulk of potential customers would be disadvantaged if the services were transferred to Swansea and the push for greater online registration continued, as a result of the loss of face-to-face and telephone services and local recognition and knowledge of that demographic in Northern Ireland. The Minister must take account of that.

I want to raise an issue about which there can be no dispute: Northern Ireland is the only region in the UK with a land border with another EU state—the Irish Republic. Traditionally, over many years, evasion rates have been significantly higher in Northern Ireland, but the rate has reduced considerably due to a comprehensive campaign there. Part of the reason is the local work force with local knowledge of vehicles and residences. Evasion rates that had continued to be high in the past have recently been reduced.

What are the chances of evasion in Fermanagh, south Armagh and Tyrone, which have borders with the Irish Republic, being detected by people operating from Swansea? The task will be much more difficult. I contend, with some justification given the previous figures, that evasion rates will rise, rather than fall. We do not want to encourage evasion or allow it to increase, rather than continue the drive to get it down.

An important reference point has emerged in the past four days. From media reports over the weekend, I understand that the DVLA’s independent complaints assessor has a draft report on the past two years, 2011-12 and 2012-13, with the various Departments for accuracy checking. When it is released in two weeks—I was assured yesterday that it will be released by the end of October, and I hope the Minister can confirm that—it will confirm a significant increase in the volume of complaints about the service people get at the DVLA in Swansea. Obviously, it is a draft report and we will wait to see the final outcome, but if complaints are increasing, part of the reason will be the sheer volume and complexity of cases being dealt with at one central agency. If anything can clinch the case for retaining a localised service, it will be in the context of the series of events I have outlined.

[Mr Goodwill]

Prior to the debate, I asked about the level of complaints. I was told that in the most recent year for which we have statistics, there were 12,500 complaints to the DVLA, which, measured against 170 million transactions, represents 0.01%. The increase in the level of referred complaints is due to a change in how complaints are handled. Previously, the chief executive had to refer complaints for consideration; they now automatically go through, which to some extent explains the increase in complaints that has been registered.

[Mr Campbell]

I am glad the Minister has confirmed that there has been an increase. I note that he said “in the most recent year”; my understanding is that the draft report refers to the past two years. Perhaps he has further information about the increase in the previous year, but I do not think he has. I accept the Minister’s comment on the increase and the reason for it. My colleagues and I have raised significant points and there are good reasons for retaining a local service that will take account of the issues.

In conclusion, I ask the Minister to do three things. I have invited the Secretary of State, and I invite him, to come to Coleraine in Northern Ireland to see at first hand the level of service and the work that is put in by employees, before coming to the final decision. In connection with that, I want the Minister to take account of the unique circumstances that prevail in Northern Ireland before coming to his decision. I also call on him to retain the excellent services that we have in Northern Ireland and those much needed jobs that go with them.

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[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

It is a pleasure to meet under your chairmanship this morning, Mrs Riordan.

I commend the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) for securing this debate on an issue that obviously affects not only many people in his constituency, but people right across Northern Ireland, including people in the Driver and Vehicle Agency in my own constituency, which is in Foyle street in Derry.

We have heard that this is not only about protecting the significant number of jobs in the DVA in Northern Ireland, but about protecting the existing level and quality of services and, indeed, trying to improve them with future investment. Other hon. Members have quoted the high customer satisfaction indicators in Northern Ireland that are running at between 98% and 100%. Of course, we heard the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) describe himself as a victim of the DVA system as it currently operates, but he actually presented himself here in Westminster Hall today as a satisfied victim. [Laughter.] That just shows the degree to which there is customer satisfaction. The fact that he can advertise his own victimhood as a justification for keeping the status quo, and building and improving on it, says an awful lot for the DVA and its staff in Northern Ireland. It also possibly says something for the hon. Gentleman, too, who I never thought would appear as a satisfied victim. There again, my expectations have been confounded.

It is important to recognise that it is not only the defence of the jobs and services that has galvanised people from all parties and, indeed, from beyond party lines in the north of Ireland, but the way in which it took an intervention by the previous Environment Minister in Northern Ireland, Alex Attwood, even to get a consultation exercise provided by the Department for Transport.

Then, of course, there was the whole offensive implication that came in the context of discussing this issue—namely, that removing the jobs from Northern Ireland would be a way to remove any threat or fear of religious or sectarian bias. That was rightly seen as a direct slur, not only on the DVA’s work force, but on the entire public sector work force in Northern Ireland. This idea was, “Well, we’ll protect you from anything that might involve a suggestion of religious bias by removing jobs.” If that is the case, why stop at DVA jobs? Remove more and more public sector jobs if doing so is meant to be a way to try to create a shared future; it will be a shared future of poverty and unemployment, but at least there will be no bias.

Rightly, the previous Minister with responsibility for roads—the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, the hon. Member for Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond)—was forced to apologise, to a degree, for those remarks, but the fact is that they hurt and stung. They also exposed the folly and the contrived and scrambled thinking that has gone into this proposal from the London end.

We are not just concerned about defending the jobs and the service qualities that have been described. As other hon. Members have said, when we look at what has been happening with the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency in Britain, we are also concerned. We have seen that the presumption that providing online services will mean that everyone moves online is not borne out by the experience of the past 10 years. The chair of the Scottish Motor Trade Association described the situation in Scotland as “a shambles”, because of the closure of local offices and the move to centralisation. When we have all this evidence of the experience in other areas, of course we should listen to it.

However, not only the representatives of the people of Northern Ireland, but the Department for Transport and the Minister should be listening to that evidence. They should be saying, “Does it really make sense to put all the eggs into the single option of one single, centralised location for the entire UK?” As other hon. Members have said, allowing the DVA to be retained in Northern Ireland—in particular, the significant capacity and resource that exists in Coleraine—would give the DVLA the option and the flexibility of having a centre of excellence that it can rely on alongside Swansea.

[Mr Goodwill]

The hon. Gentleman mentioned some of the problems with the Scottish motor trade. The DVLA has acknowledged that it had temporary issues when some of the complex work was transferred from the GB local offices to Swansea. The DVLA has worked with the motor industry, and I understand that those issues have been rectified and performance is back up to target now.

[Mark Durkan]

I am not sure that I am fully persuaded by the Minister’s points, which, I accept, he has put on record. I think that I and others will test them with other soundings.

I want to make the point that we have had experience in Northern Ireland of other services being centralised. A number of years ago, when tax credits were introduced there was for a brief period a tax credit office in Northern Ireland, which tried to deal with complex cases; not all of them should have been complex, but by the nature of that system they became complex. We ended up with somebody having a bright idea, saying, “Let’s centralise tax credit.” The tax credit office was removed from Northern Ireland, although many cases in Northern Ireland are particularly complicated and people were unable to deal with or understand the needs and circumstances of people there, not least the cross-border cases that arise in the context of tax credits.

As other hon. Members have said, significant cross-border issues relate to vehicle licensing, including local traders’ dealings with the DVA, particularly in respect of used cars with a cross-border history. From time to time, there are changes in patterns of vehicle importation across the border from the south and the trade goes the other way, with people in the south buying their cars in the north. It is important that licensing and registration in both Shannon and the DVA in the north can work together, to track, connect and make sense of those things, and work with the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the Garda Siochana in relation to those matters. All that would be lost and we would end up with a repeat of the serious, chronic problems with border and cross-border issues on the centralisation of tax credits.

The fear is that the logic of centralisation will be not just be used in driver and vehicle licensing, but extended to other areas in future. Previously, we heard threatening suggestions from Whitehall Ministers that, if we did not make do with our lot on welfare reform, some of the servicing work—the back office work—done in relation to benefits in GB could be lost. Of course, the same argument could be applied in future to proposed changes in the regime for annually managed expenditure and further changes in relation to welfare reform and, for example, a new standardised computer system for universal credit.

We are not just defending the important jobs that we need to defend in DVA, but trying to hold the line against a relentless effort towards centralisation that goes completely against the grain of the commitments and promises made by the Prime Minister, in recognition of Northern Ireland’s talents and skills, its contribution and its offer.

Here we have talent, dedication and commitment from DVA staff, who, in spite of under-investment in technology by the DVLA, have delivered such a good performance. That commitment should be rewarded not with their jobs being removed to a remote location where the same quality of service will not be matched, but with their jobs being retained and new investment going in, so that they can provide an even better service to people in Northern Ireland and be able to provide that good service to people in Great Britain, as well, when it makes sense for the DVLA to call on their talents to do so.

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[Dr William McCrea (South Antrim) (DUP)]

I count it a privilege to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Riordan. I welcome the Minister to his new post. I have personal respect for him and trust that he will not only enlighten us, but will give us some assistance in this matter, which my hon. Friend the Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) has brought to this Chamber. I congratulate him on securing this debate. This matter goes to the heart of his constituency and constituents. Other constituencies in the Province are impacted and affected, as well. I also pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) for his efforts in this regard. I am sorry that he cannot be with us because of the death of his brother-in-law. I trust that that family may be comforted at this time.

It must be asked, in respect of changes in service impacting on the community, why are such changes being made? Are they desirable or needed? Of course, the natural answer from those who propose those changes is that this is better for the community. The contention is that there is no service that could not be bettered, and in many ways, yes, that is true. However, is the proposal for the betterment of, and is the demand coming from, the community? Is it better than what is offered?

I have great, grave doubts about the centralisation of services at the DVLA headquarters in Swansea. The consultation suggests that

“The proposals may result in the closure of a network of dedicated offices”

in Northern Ireland. We know that that is not so. Why did they not describe it as it is? It will—not “may”—result in the closure. Everyone knows that, so why was it not put in the document in the first place?

The people are offered

“Access to electronic vehicle licensing services, which will allow”

Northern Ireland

“motorists to license their vehicle or declare it off the road either online or via an automated telephone service, 24 hours a day”.

That means simply that they have the opportunity to go online or wait on the line—on the telephone—for this automated service.

We live in an impersonal age. People find that those making decisions for them are getting ever further away, when they try to contact them. That is not an improvement of service. For example, people are told to go online. That might help some, but the reality in the rest of the United Kingdom is that many who have that opportunity are not taking it. Why is that? Some cannot use online services or find doing so difficult. Instead of being of assistance to and helping them, that is more of a hindrance.

People who cannot go online are promised an automated telephone service. I must be honest and say, as a public representative, that I am sick, sore and tired of automated services. People are told to press this or that button and then move on to the next thing, after which they hope, at the end, to speak to someone. However, they just hear a voice. In this impersonal situation, people are nothing better than a number now. People are being promised exactly that with the services offered. They will be a number, rather than a person. There is no longer a human face to this service, as provided.

The people I represent want to talk to someone. I remember the decision being made to change things for representatives, regarding planning in Northern Ireland. People were told, “You’re not allowed to go out to sites any more. You’re to sit in an office.” Give me 10 minutes on a site any day, rather than sitting for half an hour in an office, because then I look at the reality, not at a piece of paper.

If we are looking for the betterment of a service, it should be judged by those who use the service. People in Northern Ireland, including my constituents, are saying, “We want the service retained in Northern Ireland, because we believe that it is a better service, not simply because we want to hold on to the jobs.”

As the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan) mentioned, the document states:

“Centralisation at the DVLA in Swansea will in fact remove any possibility that Northern Ireland services may be biased to any particular religious group, since these transactions will no longer be serviced by staff based in Northern Ireland, who could themselves hold particular beliefs.”

That is and was a slur. Who decided to put it in the document? Who thought up those words? When faced by my hon. Friend the Member for North Antrim, the Minister said:

“I apologise for any offence that was inadvertently caused and accept that the wording could have been clearer.”—[Official Report, 12 September 2013; Vol. 567, c. 1151.]

What did it mean, then, if it did not mean what it said? That needs to be put on the record. The person who put that in the document should be hauled over the coals, for that is an insult to those who have worked hard and served the people—

[Mr Goodwill]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Dr McCrea]

I only have a few seconds.

There is unanimity among elected representatives in Northern Ireland. We should retain these jobs in Northern Ireland, because that would provide the best possible service to our constituents, whom we represent.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Robert Goodwill)]

I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell) on securing this debate on the future of vehicle registration and licensing services in Northern Ireland. I also welcome my opposite number, the hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden), to his place. I hope we can work together constructively—at least most of the time.

Let me acknowledge from the outset that I recognise that this is an important and emotive subject for the hon. Member for East Londonderry, his constituents and other hon. Members in Northern Ireland. In that respect, he will be pleased to know he has friends in high places, because the First Minister raised the issue with the Prime Minister on Friday, and the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland telephoned me on Sunday to discuss it personally; indeed, when I had my briefing session, I invited an official from the Northern Ireland Office, to ensure the voice of Northern Ireland was heard—talk about friends in high places.

Against that backdrop, I must explain that, as the hon. Gentleman will know, vehicle registration and licensing throughout the UK is an excepted matter and the responsibility of the UK Government. In GB, these services are delivered by the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency, in Swansea. In Northern Ireland, the DVLA has an agreement with the Driver and Vehicle Agency, which is part of the Northern Ireland Department of the Environment, to deliver vehicle registration and licensing services to motorists there. The DVA has traditionally delivered those services through its centre in Coleraine and eight other offices in Northern Ireland.

While I understand the hon. Gentleman’s concerns, the crux of the issue is that the vehicle registration and licensing services available to motorists in Northern Ireland have fallen behind those available in the rest of the UK. For example, motorists in Northern Ireland are unable to tax their cars online and have only limited services available at post offices. As the owner of more than a dozen vehicles, I must say I find the online tax system very simple. I can tax a tractor in 20 seconds; where I have to pay to tax a vehicle, it takes about two minutes. Otherwise, I would have to travel 4 miles to my nearest post office, which I cannot, of course, do on a Sunday night.

The consultation that has recently ended contains proposals to modernise services in Northern Ireland and to ensure that motorists there are treated the same as those in GB and can enjoy the same services. If the proposals outlined in the consultation were adopted—I must stress that I have not yet decided on the way forward—motorists in Northern Ireland would be able to tax their cars online and via an automated telephone service that would be available 24 hours a day all year round. Many more services would also be available at about 150 post offices throughout Northern Ireland.

Services to businesses in Northern Ireland would also be improved. Companies would have access to the same level of service as those in the rest of the UK, allowing them to streamline their processes so that they did not have to manage the registration and licensing of vehicles differently from companies in GB.

The changes proposed in the consultation would also ensure that motorists in Northern Ireland can never again fall behind those in GB when new services are introduced in the future. When the DVLA introduces more digital and online services in GB, those would become available to Northern Ireland motorists at the same time.

I acknowledge that introducing new services online and through post offices and centralising the delivery of the remaining services delivered by the DVA in Northern Ireland at the DVLA in Swansea would have an impact. Currently, the full-time equivalent of 324 staff work on vehicle registration and licensing services at the DVA in Coleraine. Introducing more online services and making more services available at post offices would mean that those staff were no longer needed for that work. The DVLA forecasts that 75% of the transactions currently undertaken by Northern Ireland motorists would be carried out online or at local post offices.

I stress that, despite many reports and statements to the contrary, there is no intention to remove those jobs from Coleraine to create the same number of new jobs in Swansea. The DVLA estimates that, if the new online and post office services are introduced in Northern Ireland, there would remain about 500,000 transactions where customers needed to deal directly with the DVLA. That sounds significant, but the DVLA in Swansea currently deals with 97 million vehicle transactions a year. The extra 500,000 could be absorbed by the DVLA with no increase in staff numbers and no effect on customer services.

To answer a point made by the hon. Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson) and the shadow Minister, the proportion of tax discs issued online is running at about 60%, and it is increasing. Of course, face-to-face services would also be available in post offices in Northern Ireland.

We must recognise that we are now in a fast-changing, digital world. Customers expect to be able to transact when and where they like—increasingly, from the comfort of their own homes. The way in which services have been delivered in the past, and the higher number of people required to deliver them, is becoming unsustainable. That is particularly true when more convenient and efficient alternatives are available and in use elsewhere in the UK.

Indeed, the DVLA is going through its own transformation process, which has resulted in many more services being made available at local post offices and in other services being centralised at the DVLA’s headquarters, in Swansea. That means that all the DVLA’s local offices in GB will close by the end of the year, with the loss of 1,200 jobs. The proposals for Northern Ireland vehicle registration and licensing services are no different from what is already happening in the rest of the country.

[Richard Burden]

The Minister is talking about the DVLA’s systems, but one important issue raised by Members from Northern Ireland, which I raised as well, was the impact on the Northern Ireland economy. We have heard the Oxford Economics estimate of direct and indirect job losses and of the impact on GVA. Will the Minister confirm those figures? If he is unable to do so today, will he write to hon. Members with the Government’s assessment of the impact on the Northern Ireland economy?

[Mr Goodwill]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. Unemployment in Northern Ireland is lower than the UK average, and it has fallen by 1.2% in the past year. The analysis provided by Oxford Economics does not reflect the full impact the changes to the DVA’s operations will have, because it takes no account of the benefits from the expansion of digital services and the widening of services offered at post offices. Those changes will increase choice and ease of access for customers and reduce the cost of vehicle licensing and registration to businesses, ultimately increasing employment in Northern Ireland.

[Mr Campbell]

The Minister alluded to the 1,200 job losses in the rest of the UK. Does he accept that Northern Ireland, which has a much greater dependency on the public sector, has one thirtieth of the population of GB, so 1,200 lost jobs in GB should equate to 40 lost jobs in Northern Ireland? However, rather than losing 40, we will lose 500.

[Mr Goodwill]

I appreciate that a large number of people in Northern Ireland are employed in the public sector, which means these job changes, should they happen, would have all the more impact—particularly in places such as Coleraine, which is isolated from parts of the country where other public service jobs may be.

There are also economic facts that need to be considered. If introduced, these changes will save taxpayers throughout the UK £12 million a year, while introducing significant new services for motorists in Northern Ireland. I understand that hon. Members from Northern Ireland are concerned about the impact that the loss of more than 300 jobs would have on the economy of not only Coleraine, but Northern Ireland generally.

The Department of the Environment in Northern Ireland, which employs the DVA staff, has stated that it will seek to redeploy them and avoid the need for redundancies, where possible. However, I understand that there are some local issues. For example, 73% of the workers are female, so redeployment may not be possible, for family reasons. In the event that a decision is taken to press ahead with the proposals outlined in the consultation, I will make sure that the DVLA works openly with its counterparts in Northern Ireland to develop a transition plan for the affected staff so that the impact can be reduced.

There is some question about how many people in Northern Ireland will want to use online services or will be able to do so, given limits to broadband internet access. The 2013 Ofcom report shows that 80% of Northern Ireland households have internet access, and 93% of addresses are connected to high-speed fibre-optic broadband, owing to investment by the Northern Ireland Assembly. That compares well with the rest of the UK. However, some people will be unwilling or unable to use digital services at this time, and it is, of course, their right to make that choice. That is why many of the services currently available only at the DVA’s centre in Coleraine or at one of the eight other local offices in Northern Ireland will become available at about 150 post offices.

To summarise, while I understand the concerns that the hon. Member for East Londonderry and other hon. Members have expressed, I am keen to stress the positive benefits the changes would bring to Northern Ireland motorists, if adopted. I hope I have done that today. The wider availability of online and face-to-face services can only benefit customers.

The Minister previously responsible for this matter, the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Wimbledon (Stephen Hammond), had agreed to meet the hon. Gentleman and other hon. Members to discuss this matter. I am pleased to confirm that I am prepared to have that meeting, if not on 4 November, when it was scheduled to take place, then around that time. I stress that no decisions will be made until after that meeting. No firm timetable has been set, but we expect a decision by the end of this year or early next year.

Greener Road Transport Fuels

Robert Goodwill Excerpts

Tuesday 15th October 2013 Westminster Hall

[John Pugh]

I am certainly surrounded by people who are far more learned than myself in the field, but I shall have the temerity to continue.

Even if the biofuels issue has moved on to the discussion of what are called second generation biofuels, where people talk about not using virgin land or crops but municipal waste and algae, technical questions about the reliability of supply remain, particularly if whole-scale, mandatory use in other fuels is considered an option. I am simply pointing out that there are problems, and I think hon. Members’ interventions have helped me to illustrate precisely that point.

In some ways, electric cars seem a perfect solution, until one considers the production costs, which are currently high. There are issues with the battery, such as its weight, life and endurance, and with how the electricity itself is produced; the electricity might not have been produced in a carbon-neutral way. There is also the issue of flexibility of use, which I think is well understood by anyone who considers the topic for a second or two: what happens when battery life is exhausted?

I recognise that electric motors can be made to become more efficient; that battery technology can be increased; and that we can have charging points across the country—in fact, grants are, I believe, available at the moment and points are appearing—but there is still some way to go. One of my constituents, who died over the weekend, had been progressing with the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills some new development that would make electric motors a lot more efficient and batteries a lot more effective. Developments will be made in that field, but my best guess—this is borne out by conversations that I have had with the motor industry—is that despite Government investment and considerable Government enthusiasm, from some Ministers at any rate, electric cars will probably remain a niche market, extending only as the use of hybrids becomes more popular.

Even were electric cars to take off for the motorist, we will not see electric buses, unless we call them trams, and to be fair, the electric lorry is some way off. Lorries necessarily travel long distances, and the cost of that and the weight of carrying batteries to enable them to do that would probably be wholly prohibitive for quite some time to come.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Robert Goodwill)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the greatest challenges to the roll-out of electric vehicles is addressing what is called range anxiety, where drivers are worried that they will, like the Duracell rabbit, run out of power in an unfortunate place?

[John Pugh]

Yes. I think that, to some extent, the worry is misplaced. I think the range is greater than people imagine, but that underlying anxiety makes it difficult to sell purely electric cars, as opposed to hybrid cars; it is a lot harder ask of the consumer. In any case, when it comes to value for the consumer, electric cars are head to head with the new generation of the ever more efficient and quieter diesels. Looking at what is happening with car market sales, one can see the result. However, even with lower emissions, more diesels clocking more miles in bigger cars, which is what we seem to be seeing at the moment, will not significantly reduce the nation’s carbon footprint in the long term.

In the short term, there is also the added complication of more particulates being released into the air, which could have some negative short-term effects on people’s health. Some particulates are carcinogenic, and certainly none of them are particularly good for people’s respiratory system. Some people say that air pollution at the moment, particularly from diesels, is as dangerous as passive smoking. That brings me to LPG and CNG.

LPG creates fewer emissions—15% less than petrol and 40% less than diesel. It has no production problems; we make LPG vehicles in this country. Sadly, they are mostly left-hand-drive and exported, but they are made in large numbers in this country. It is a mature technology. It is being scaled up throughout the continent, and we have in place a distribution network—something like 14,000 points minimum, with most of the major supermarkets providing an obvious port of call for people.

An LPG vehicle can be easily converted—at the flick of a switch—to a petrol vehicle without detriment to its engine or its performance. However, when we look at what is happening with LPG in this country, we see stagnation, with very limited production. Granted, there are some post-production adaptations, but even when we think about that, it is a Catch-22 situation.

I have looked into the issue. I own two old cars, both of them about 16 or 17 years old. Both have fairly large engines, are quite expensive and could benefit from being converted. However, the cost of conversion probably now exceeds the cost of purchasing both cars, so someone in that sort of situation is unlikely to do so. The real issue with an older car is that, having done the expensive conversion, can anyone guarantee that the car will not fail in some other respect?

Equally, if someone is thinking about converting a new car, which makes an awful lot of sense over the lifetime of the car, they will run into issues regarding the guarantee on the car and its servicing. The garage from where the car was bought may not be happy to deal with it once it has been converted. The guarantee and service issues are enough to deflect all but the most determined purchaser.

Either way, there is a problem. The solution is for us to produce and use more LPG vehicles, but we are going backwards here. If anyone looks at the second-hand LPG market, as I have, they will find second-hand Vectras and Astras, but those cars are about seven or eight years old—vintage—simply because cars of that sort are not being produced for the UK market anymore. However, Opel, which is virtually the same company, is producing the Opel Adam, a new LPG car, as a brand leader. We therefore have the phenomenon where, in an allegedly not-so-developed country such as Turkey, there is a 20% uptake of LPG, while in England, the figure is 0.5%.

If the situation is poor with cars, it is probably worse with freight, where the whole-life cost of lorries—lorries are surprisingly expensive—have to be factored in by hauliers. In terms of cost per mile, it would benefit an enormous number of hauliers to convert, as long as they can predict the cost over a period, but to do so, they must have some sort of guarantee that the financial environment that they are in will remain somewhat similar.

We can see how a change in the financial environment has made a difference. At one time in the north-west, quite a few LPG buses were running around—they were very clean indeed—but changes in the bus grant and the subsidy bus companies got on their diesel simply destroyed the network, and firms such as Arriva rapidly withdrew from providing them. Initially, I thought it was an issue of reliability and so on, but that turned out not to be the case.

That is the problem. We have a solution, a partial solution or an off-the-shelf solution, which we can implement now, but we are not making any headway, while the rest of Europe is. Why is that the case? Given that we have a solution—it is not the sole solution, and it may not be the long-term solution, but we can do something appreciable to reduce emissions—why has it not been implemented? I think that it is because the Government are not creating a sufficiently certain economic environment.

It is often said that two things in life are certain: death and taxes. The problem is that taxes to provide fiscal environmental incentives are not that certain. There is a differential between LPG and petrol, but it is agreed annually. When the Government are pressed by Members to do more, they respond with a formula—it is in the debate pack—that goes something like this:

“The Chancellor keeps…under review and takes into account all relevant fiscal and economic impacts when taking decisions.”—[Official Report, 13 November 2012; Vol. 553, c. 176W.]

On the face of it, that sounds rational, until we recognise that long-term investment requires at least medium-term predictability. My worry is that, without predictability, many green technologies are destined to tread water. That is not speculation; we just need to compare the UK with other parts of Europe and to look at what happens there. The empirical evidence is clear: where there is a more far-sighted, more determined fiscal climate, LPG and, I dare say, other forms of green transport expand.

I can understand the Treasury view—it is anal, it is perhaps sound accountancy and it is prudent—but it is self-evidently a lousy business strategy, and it simply has to be challenged. When I raised the issue during the passage of the Finance Bill, the Treasury Minister—he is now the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, and I am assured that he is going places—replied:

“I hope he will understand that the Government need to balance the provision of certainty with the ability to respond to economic and fiscal developments. We can provide a degree of certainty…but I hope he”—

that is me—

“will take into account that there needs to be a certain degree of fiscal flexibility.”––[Official Report, Finance Public Bill Committee, 13 June 2013; c. 526-27.]

I appreciate that, but if there is such uncertainty, it prevents consumers, councils and businesses from thinking ahead and doing energy deals over many years. What is to prevent the Treasury from making a decision on the differential that contains caveats to protect against unpredictable, massive future volatility?

An agreement could be established that gives the Treasury some comfort and investors in LPG who would like to invest further some confidence that they will get some return on their investment. Is it not better to try to achieve that outcome than to have what we have at the moment, which is a fiscal incentive that, if the facts are to be believed, does not act as much of an incentive? If that incentive was working, I simply would not be here. There is no point in me or the Treasury acting in a wholly futile way. If the incentive does not do the job, we have to look at it again.

We need critical mass if LPG is to be the force it might be. Members can probably recall a time when diesels lacked critical mass. They were associated, particularly in the passenger car market, with clouds of black smoke, noisy, rattling engines and slow acceleration. The tipping point came when one neighbour could look at the shiny car in the other’s drive, discuss it with them and find that the car, which did not appear to be belching black smoke or rattling, was actually a diesel. As a result, diesels took off to a great extent in this country. The same can happen with LPG, but we still have some way to go.

In 2005, all the political parties talked about Mondeo man. I actually live next door to him, in so far as my neighbour has bought a P registration LPG Mondeo estate on eBay for a modest price. He swears by its reliability and economy, and he gets a huge mileage. He has found a rare pearl and an unusual buy, because there are not many cars like that.

For many people, it would be desirable to have a vehicle that is reliable, economical to run and environmentally less bad than a diesel, but that simply will not happen until two things come about. First, the Department for Transport needs to listen a bit harder to the industry, and I hope this new Minister has an open mind and will listen. However, he has a bigger task: to ensure the Treasury listens much harder to the Department for Transport.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Swales (Redcar) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to speak in the debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Southport (John Pugh) on securing it and giving it an imaginative title, which allows us to range over the subject with abandon.

There is an important distinction between greener transport fuels and making transport greener, and I think that my hon. Friend made several points about the latter issue. There is no doubt that vehicle manufacturers and many others, such as fuel manufacturers, have contributed to an enormous reduction in the amount of fuel used for road transport. The car that I drive gets more than 60 miles to the gallon, which would have been unthinkable when I was tinkering with cars in my early 20s. We have heard about the possibility of switching fuels, but although liquefied petroleum gas may reduce fuel use, it is, as its name suggests, a fossil fuel.

I want to talk about fuels that I think of as greener than fossil fuels. There are three basic sources: liquids, gases and electricity. The important thing is to think about where they come from, and many contributions today have been about that. As my hon. Friend said, there are many sources of electricity, and some could well be more polluting than putting petrol in the car. For example, electricity may be generated in a coal-fired power station, then go down a line with the associated line losses, and into a car that is plugged in, but that is an incredibly inefficient way to fuel a vehicle.

An important point about electric cars is where the electricity comes from. Just last week a car went all the way across Australia entirely on solar power. Unfortunately, we do not have the weather here to see that as a long-term solution, but at least it proved that it is technically possible. The journey was 2,000 miles in six days, so that was pretty good mileage. Electricity is clearly an option for greener fuel.

There are gas possibilities, of which hydrogen is the most obvious. The subject is bedevilled by different views of science, statements from NGOs and so on. In an intervention, hydrogen was linked to crops, but the biggest source of hydrogen in my constituency is the ethylene cracker. Plastics are made by extracting hydrogen from gases, essentially, and there is a hydrogen surplus in Teesside, which comes entirely from the petrochemical industry—not from crops at all.

There are many sources of hydrogen, and the most likely one in future is surplus electricity from renewable electricity generation. It is technically fairly simple to use surplus electricity from wind turbines, for example, to generate hydrogen, which could become fuel for vehicles. There are many technical possibilities for hydrogen generation, without necessarily using crops. Hydrogen is an incredibly powerful fuel.

It is an amazing fact that splitting a water molecule into hydrogen and oxygen gives the fuel that sent rockets to the moon. It is necessary only to recombine them, and that can send rockets into space; it is the perfect fuel because it produces water again as a by-product. Hydrogen must be on the long list of future fuels for that reason, if no other.

There are many liquid biofuels, some more controversial than others. One is used cooking oil, which my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley (John Hemming) is keen on. That is clearly a good environmental use for oil that would otherwise be thrown away. However, the amount of what is called used cooking oil throughout Europe is many times the amount actually used for cooking.

Imports of palm and other oils, which the hon. Member for East Lothian (Fiona O'Donnell) mentioned, are driven partly by the market for so-called used cooking oil. A great deal of policing of the source of the material is needed, because there are loopholes and many traders who run rings round the industry. Equally, however, many small-scale collection facilities produce fuel, and they have a role in the future.

I want to talk now about crop-based biofuels. I must declare an interest, because Europe’s largest bioethanol plant is in my constituency. I challenge the idea that we can have either food or fuel. We are still paying farmers in this country not to grow things—including 6 million tonnes of sugar beet, which is potentially a fuel for a bioethanol plant. The idea that the issue is all about land does not always stand up to examination. There are many political, economic and agricultural reasons why there are food shortages in the world, and, when overall world land use is considered, land is quite far down the list. Perhaps that is controversial.

[Mr Goodwill]

The hon. Gentleman should be aware that the current EU set-aside requirement is zero. When land is set aside it is usually, currently, because of some environmental arrangement that the farmer has entered into. The amount of set-aside in the UK is dramatically less than it was 10 years ago.

[Ian Swales]

I thank the Minister for that response. I recognise his special expertise in this area.

I want to talk about the sustainability of the bioethanol made in my constituency. It is made from animal-feed wheat, not human-grade wheat, and at the other end we get three products: bioethanol; carbon dioxide, which is captured for use in the food and drink industry in a separate plant; and crucially, high-grade animal feed. All the protein in the wheat ends up in high-grade animal feed, which is highly prized in the agricultural industry, to the point that there are times when those at the plant tell me that it is an animal feed plant with a bioethanol by-product, rather than a bioethanol plant with an animal feed by-product.

The high-protein animal feed replaces imports mostly from South America, mostly based on soya and mostly grown on former rainforest land. Far from being unsustainable, that high-grade animal feed, a by-product of the bioethanol business, is in effect replacing the use of rainforests in South America. A cradle-to-grave view of the sustainability of all greener fuels needs to be taken, because there are an awful lot of misconceptions about how some of the businesses work.

[Mr Goodwill]

My hon. Friend will be aware that the by-product from those plants is suitable only as ruminant feed. Much of the grain in South America is produced to fuel the chicken and pork industries, which seems to be the big demand in the developing world.

[Ian Swales]

I recognise that the Minister has a special expertise, but I know that there is demand in the marketplace for the feeds, which form only part of the overall mix. Having enjoyed the product of a ruminant in my cup of tea earlier this afternoon, I know that they have a place in the final food chain.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Robert Goodwill)]

I am pleased, Mr Weir, to be here today. I congratulate the hon. Member for Southport (John Pugh) on securing this debate. He touches on a key issue for my new Department, which is how we can build a low-carbon transport system for the 21st century. Let me briefly mention my own interest in this, which was alluded to by the hon. Member for Redcar (Ian Swales). As a farmer, I produce wheat. Indeed two loads of it went to the Hull plant last year to produce bioethanol. I must admit to feeling guilty when I saw perfectly good wheat, which could be used for animal feed or biscuits, going to produce ethanol, so I was reassured to hear from the hon. Gentleman that the residue is not wasted but used as a ruminant feed.

Although I am new to this role, I am not new to the issue or the subjects raised in today’s debate. Way back in 2008, I was fortunate to be called by Mr Speaker to ask a question of the then Prime Minister, the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown), who I understand is still a Member of this House, about the impact of biofuels on food production. My interest in the issue remains to this day. The question I asked went something like this: is it better to put ethanol in a Range Rover’s tank or food in an African child’s stomach? I must say I did get quite a good answer from the then Prime Minister. Before that, I was a Member of the European Parliament and served on the environment committee as a deputy co-ordinator for the European People’s Party group and was involved in much of the European legislation that we are using now to clean up our vehicle fleet and the atmosphere.

Many hon. Members will have seen the recent UN report on the latest science of climate change, which clearly reveals the costs of failing to address the dangers of climate change. The Government are committed to building a low-carbon energy system that avoids such risks, and transport must play its part in the challenge.

Transport accounts for around a quarter of UK carbon emissions, and the share is rising. It is essential that we act now to reduce the impact of transport on our environment. Last month, the Government published their strategy for electric vehicles, which is a key element of our plan for a low-carbon transport system. The Government’s vision is that by 2050 almost every car in the UK will be an ultra-low emission vehicle. As well as cutting carbon, electric cars have the potential to reduce our reliance on foreign energy imports and to clean up the air in our towns and cities.

The Government are determined to seize this opportunity, and to place the UK at the forefront of the design, development and manufacture of ultra-low emission vehicles, and I am sure that we will work with the Automotive Council to do just that.

[Ian Swales]

Does the Minister feel that his colleagues in the Department of Energy and Climate Change, who are worried about the lights going out this winter, are factoring into their work on future power generation the electrical demand that he is talking about?

[Mr Goodwill]

Yes, I am sure they are. I am concerned that one means of addressing the range anxiety problem is to have fast-charge cars. Electric cars work well when they are charged overnight with renewable energy or nuclear energy, but once we start fast-charging cars at filling stations, we will have a major problem not only with generation capacity but with the grid’s ability to carry that amount of electricity.

However, not all modes of transport can be easily electrified. Aviation and heavy goods vehicles are likely to continue to require liquid fuels for decades to come. It is therefore essential that we develop the technologies to produce low-carbon liquid fuels.

Biofuels are renewable transport fuels created from organic matter and offer one way of creating low-carbon fuels. However, biofuels—and bioenergy more generally— also present complex challenges. Last year, the Government published a strategy for bioenergy, which recognised its important role in allowing the UK to meet its climate change objectives. It concluded that by using bioenergy, we could cut the costs of decarbonising the UK by £44 billion.

[Fiona O’Donnell]

I thank the Minister for giving way and take the opportunity to welcome him to his new role. Does he agree with his predecessor, the Minister of State, Home Department, the hon. Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), who has perhaps gone to a better place now, that some forms of biofuels are worse for the environment than fossil fuels?

[Mr Goodwill]

I have seen analysis of some of the bioethanol produced in the United States which indicates that that is the case. I will comment on the particular impact of fuels as I make progress in my speech.

The Government published a strategy on bioenergy, which concluded that by using bioenergy we could cut the cost of decarbonising the UK by £44 billion. Other reports have estimated that the biomass industry could provide 50,000 jobs. There are clear opportunities for the UK in the global race for growth driven by science and innovation, and it is an industry that we need to develop. However, the strategy also made it clear that bioenergy had its risks. If it is not managed properly, bioenergy can actually increase greenhouse gas emissions and put at risk key objectives such as food security. It is therefore essential that we proceed with care and develop systems that use bioenergy only where it is genuinely sustainable.

We have already taken important steps on the path to genuinely sustainable biofuels. In 2008, the Renewable Transport Fuels Obligation was established. For the first time, biofuel was required to be blended into road transport fuel. In 2011, the UK introduced mandatory sustainability criteria to the RTFO. Those changes meant that biofuels could no longer be sourced from areas of high biodiversity, such as rainforests or wetlands. In 2011, we also saw the introduction of double rewards for advanced biofuels, also referred to in this debate as second generation biofuels, and biofuels made from waste. Such changes have led to encouraging trends in the fuels supplied under the RTFO. The average carbon savings of biofuel supplied under the RTFO when compared with fossil fuel have increased from 46% in 2008 to around 68% in the latest statistics.

One example of the feedstocks behind this trend is used cooking oil. The hon. Member for Southport may be aware of the Olleco biodiesel plant in Bootle, which is the country’s largest purpose-built plant dedicated to producing biodiesel from used cooking oil, and is not too far from his Merseyside constituency.

[David Mowat]

The Minister makes the point about how these things are alternatives to fossil fuels, but does he accept that not all fossil fuels have the same amount of carbon? If we were to replace petrol with gas or liquefied natural gas cars, as opposed to liquefied petroleum gas cars—there are 15 million LNG cars in the world and 3 million in Pakistan—we would halve the amount of carbon being produced from the transport sector. That technology exists already. I repeat the point that I made to the shadow Minister that electric cars are not a panacea for as long as we continue to produce the electricity from fossil fuels, particularly coal.

[Mr Goodwill]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Methane, or biogas, is CH₄, so for every molecule of carbon dioxide produced there are four molecules of water, so it is a big improvement over fossil fuels such as LPG.

[John Pugh]

I was not aware of the cooking oil development plant in Bootle, but I was once the leader of Sefton council, which covered Bootle. The major environmental issue that we had was the strange smell that used to permeate households in the area, and that was regarded in those days as an environmental hazard. This environment is a complicated thing to deal with.

[Mr Goodwill]

Indeed. We have a big chip factory in my constituency, which occasionally has the same effect. Used cooking oil offers carbon savings of around 80% compared with those produced by fossil fuel, and the latest data suggest that last year around a third of biofuels supplied in the UK came from used cooking oil. We are very much on the case of ensuring that used cooking oil is indeed used cooking oil, and the Department is currently monitoring the situation closely because of the allegations that have been flying around. Certainly, the UK should not be criticised in that regard.

There is still more to do to ensure the sustainability of biofuels. In particular, we are concerned about the impact of indirect land use change. Studies have demonstrated that, due to ILUC, some otherwise sustainably produced biofuels can end up causing greater carbon emissions than fossil fuels.

[Fiona O’Donnell]

The Minister is being very generous in giving way again. Does he not agree that that perhaps is what the hon. Member for Redcar (Ian Swales) missed in his contribution—while the products that may be used in his constituency are not fit for human consumption, they still use up valuable resources of land and water?

[Mr Goodwill]

The issue of displacement—the ILUC situation—is one that we are well aware of. It tends to be more of a problem with biodiesel than with bioethanol, but it is an issue that we need to address through negotiations and agreements at the European level.

The European targets that the UK has agreed to are legally binding. Therefore, the UK needs to work within the European framework to produce a biofuel policy that reduces the environmental and social impacts of biofuels. As part of this process, it is imperative that ILUC is properly addressed at European level. Negotiations are ongoing in Europe, and we are pressing for an ambitious outcome to the ILUC situation. The 5% figure is certainly the figure that we are negotiating towards.

As we have heard in the debate, there are also concerns about the impact of biofuels on food prices. Food versus fuel is an issue that I take very seriously. The primary goal of agriculture should remain food production, and the production of biomass must not undermine food security or increase food prices. It is accepted that increased demand for biofuel has played a role, but Government analysis has shown that although increased global crop prices have resulted from biofuel production there has only been a modest rise in food prices.

I must point out at this stage that there is only 10p worth of wheat in a loaf of bread anyway, so there are many other factors that come—oh dear, I have mentioned that I am a farmer again. However, I recognise the seriousness of even a small impact on food prices, as well as the potential for biofuel support policies to increase crop price volatility. Nevertheless, I am confident that our position on the ILUC negotiations, if it is successful in limiting crop-based biofuels and incentivising those produced from wastes and residues, should reduce the direct competition for food feedstocks.

I will turn now to advanced fuels. Resolving the issue of ILUC remains the main barrier to setting out the clear pathway to achieving our 2020 targets, which I know industry and investors need. However, in the meantime we can set out some markers for the longer-term path to more sustainable biofuels. That is likely to be achieved through the use of non-land-using feedstocks, such as agricultural residues and municipal waste. However, use of these feedstocks requires advanced conversion processes that have not yet been commercialised. These processes are an exciting technology, which can turn unwanted waste products into valuable transport fuel. A number of countries have already established production facilities for these advanced biofuels, although there are none as yet in the UK. However, with the UK’s world-class research capabilities we have the potential to become a global player in this sector.

That is why earlier this year the Government announced a £25 million competition for an advanced biofuel demonstration contest, which aims to deliver up to three demonstration-scale advanced biofuel plants in the UK. Later this year, we will also be announcing a call for evidence on advanced fuels. We will invite industry’s views on what more the Government should be doing to develop these essential technologies, which will be needed long into the future to allow us to reduce the carbon footprint of road travel and, increasingly, other transport sectors.

However, not all non-land-using biofuels rely on advanced technologies. For example, biomethane made from waste demonstrates some of the highest carbon savings of any biofuel, and the technology for its production is well understood. Indeed, I visited a BMW car plant in the United States, which was powered by biofuel from a nearby waste dump.

[Ian Swales]

May I ask the Minister a question about a detail in his speech? He mentioned “other transport sectors”. It is already technically possible for biokerosene to fuel aircraft. Some aircraft have flown—including, I believe, a Virgin aircraft—powered purely by biokerosene. Will the Government do anything about aircraft fuels?

[Mr Goodwill]

I will not digress too far into the area of aircraft but we certainly need to ensure that the quality of aircraft fuels is consistent, and currently we do not put biofuel into aviation kerosene for safety reasons. However, more research could lead to some progress in that area.

Biomethane represents a particularly compelling opportunity for heavy goods vehicles, which have few other options for decarbonisation. Biomethane currently represents less than 1% of renewable transport fuel, so there is clear potential to expand its contribution to reducing emissions in the UK. However, biomethane cannot be used in transport without the vehicles that are able to use it, and there are currently fewer than 1,000 natural gas vehicles in the UK. The Government are supporting the early uptake of gas-fuelled vehicles through the low-carbon truck demonstration trial. This £11 million project to trial low-carbon trucks and supporting infrastructure will support almost 350 natural gas trucks.

I am aware of industry concerns about the adequacy of incentives for the use of biomethane in transport, particularly when compared with other Government support schemes for the use of biomethane in electricity and heat. These issues will be considered as part of our forthcoming call for evidence, and we will then be in a position to propose the changes that we think will be needed to the RTFO in order to strike the best balance of incentives. With luck, we will then be able to introduce those incentives alongside agreed European proposals to address ILUC.

I turn now to some of the points made in the debate. I again welcome the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Birmingham, Northfield (Richard Burden), to his role. In many ways, we are on the same page. The renewable energy directive targets are still in place for 2020; under those targets, 10% of transport energy will be renewable. I am sure that he will be pleased to know that those targets have not changed as a result of our recent negotiations.

The hon. Member for Southport raised the issue of liquefied natural gas, which is the same as methane or biogas. As a transport fuel, natural gas has lower carbon emissions than diesel; it produces about 15% lower emissions. Natural gas also diversifies our fuel supply, increasing energy security, and it can improve local air quality. In addition, natural gas benefits from a lower duty rate than diesel. I should point out that matters regarding duty rates should be addressed to the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Liquefied petroleum gas vehicles have some environmental benefits. On a lifecycle basis, LPG vehicles produce about 14% less carbon dioxide than petrol vehicles do. However, LPG is not as good as diesel. LPG cars deliver similar air quality emissions to petrol cars, and better air quality emissions than diesel, although the gap has narrowed with the introduction of Euro 5 and Euro 6 cars.

The hon. Member for East Lothian (Fiona O’Donnell) asked about the 5% food crop cap. I hope that I have reassured her that we are sticking with that, and we have certainly made it clear to the European Commission, the European Parliament and all other member states in the Council of the European Union that the UK supports the 5% cap.

[Fiona O’Donnell]

Can I press the Minister further and ask what discussions he has had with the German Government, who would be key to gaining support for the 5% cap?

[Mr Goodwill]

I met my German opposite number in Luxembourg last Thursday. Although the discussion did not veer into that area, I am sure that we will have a good working relationship with the Germans. Of course, the Germans are currently in the process of forming a new Government, so I look forward to hopefully meeting my new colleague, or perhaps his replacement if there are changes to the Government. The hon. Lady is absolutely right—Germany is key to almost everything in Europe, and we certainly have a very good working relationship with our colleagues from the German Federal Republic.

Regarding electric vehicles, the point was made that the market for them is very much a niche one. We are happy with the take-up of ultra-low emission vehicles. We are working across Government with the industry and we have introduced a range of ambitious measures to make the UK a premier global market for these vehicles.

My hon. Friend the Member for Warrington South (David Mowat) made a point about the energy mix in terms of electricity generation. It is the case that electric cars—ultra-low emission vehicles—already produce lower emissions than conventional vehicles, and as the grid decarbonises their environmental performance will improve further. I am keen to see more renewable energy being produced, not least off the coast of my constituency. Also, as a keen fan of nuclear power, I know that we can use the electricity that nuclear power produces at night-time to trickle charge electric vehicles.

I was asked whether the Government are committed to plug-in car grants. We have announced £500 million of support for the period from 2015 to 2021, and shortly we will launch a call for evidence to inform how we will achieve the best value for that investment.

The issue of hydrogen was raised. The Government launched the UK H₂ Mobility project in 2012, which was a joint undertaking with industry. The project will evaluate the potential for hydrogen as a fuel, developing an action plan for a roll-out to consumers from next year if the evaluation is successful.

I think that I have responded to most of the points that were made in the debate. If I have missed some points, I apologise and I will certainly write to respond to them, as time is pressing now.

To conclude, I thank everyone who has contributed to this debate for taking the time to consider this important issue. The use of biofuels and non-conventional fuels is, and will remain, complex and controversial. However, that must not stop us from finding the right balance between producing the fuels we need for a low-carbon future and protecting the livelihoods of the most vulnerable, both here and in the developing world.

New Better Bus Areas

Robert Goodwill Excerpts

Thursday 10th October 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Robert Goodwill)]

My noble Friend, the Minister of State for Transport (Baroness Kramer), has made the following written ministerial statement:

I am delighted today to announce the designation of four new better bus areas (BBAs) in Merseyside, York, Nottingham and the West of England partnership region (comprising Bath, Bristol and south Gloucester).

Last year the Government announced plans to reform the way in which we directly support the bus market through the bus service operators grant (BSOG). The reforms included our intention to create a limited number of new BBAs, the first of which was designated in Sheffield earlier this year. A competitive process was then held across the summer allowing other local authorities to submit proposals for achieving improved bus services in partnership with their local operators.

BBAs have been created to trial new ways of supporting the bus market. Within these areas the BSOG paid to operators of commercial bus services will gradually be reduced to zero across a four-and-a-half-year period, with the equivalent amount devolved to the relevant local authority together with a top-up fund worth 20% of commercial BSOG. This money will allow local authorities, working in partnership with bus operators, to tackle the issues negatively impacting on local bus markets.

Total funding for the four new BBAs amounts to some £16.5 million across the full term of the scheme; this is in addition to the £18.5 million that the Sheffield BBA will receive up to 2017.

We will work closely with the new BBAs to monitor progress and to ensure these grants target bus subsidy to the areas where it is most needed.

DSA Tests

Robert Goodwill Excerpts

Thursday 10th October 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Robert Goodwill)]

I have today announced that, from April 2014, foreign language support for candidates taking driving tests will no longer be available. The Driving Standards Agency (DSA) undertook a consultation on this issue between February and April 2013.

Candidates have previously been able to take the theory test in 19 languages, in addition to English and Welsh, and can attend for theory and practical tests with an interpreter. We are making this change to:

Improve road safety—in response to concern about the ability of non-English or Welsh speakers to understand road signs and other advice to drivers.

Enhance social cohesion—to help individuals’ integration in society by learning the national language.

Reduce fraud—to address the issue of an interpreter attending for test with a learner driver and giving information in addition to a translation of the theory test questions or the instructions given by the examiner.

Reduce costs—there will be modest savings to DSA from not paying a fee to the theory test service provider for the annual update of voiceovers.

DSA has issued a response to consultation report, which can be found at: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/driving-test-language-support.

EU Transport Council

Robert Goodwill Excerpts

Wednesday 9th October 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Robert Goodwill)]

I will attend the first Transport Council of the Lithuanian presidency (the presidency) taking place in Luxembourg on Thursday 10 October.

There will be an orientation debate on the proposal for a regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council amending regulation (EC) No 261/2004 establishing common rules on compensation and assistance to passengers in the event of denied boarding and of cancellation or long delay of flights and regulation (EC) No. 2027/97 on air carrier liability in respect of the carriage of passengers and their baggage. The UK will look to ensure that additional burdens and costs on UK industry are minimised (while retaining an appropriate level of protection for passengers), particularly on the core issues that the presidency have identified for discussion.

The Council regulation amending regulation (EC) No. 219/2007 on the establishment of a joint undertaking to develop the new generation European air traffic management system (SESAR) will be adopted. The single European Sky initiative aims to modernise the European air traffic management system and has considerable scope to reduce costs and improve the travelling experience for UK passengers. We plan to support the proposed extension of the SESAR joint undertaking to 2024 because it still has an important role to deliver the research and development set out in the air traffic management master plan in support of the wider single European Sky initiative.

There will be a general approach on three proposals.

The first is a proposal for a directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on railway safety (part of the fourth railway package). The UK’s position on the recast railway safety directive is to ensure that we build on processes that already work well and, where appropriate, modify these to recognise changes such as the introduction of the single safety certificate. All UK interests and objectives are maintained by the proposed general approach text. I therefore fully support this proposal and the adoption of a general approach by the Council.

The second is a proposal for a regulation of the European Parliament and of the Council amending regulation (EU) No. 912/2010 setting up the European Geostationary Navigation Overlay Service (EGNOS) Agency which will play a central role in improving the governance and management of the EU’s satellite navigations systems Galileo and EGNOS. I fully support this proposal and the adoption of a general approach by the Council.

The third is a proposal for a directive of the European Parliament and of the Council on multi-annual funding for the action of the European Maritime Safety Agency in the field of response to pollution caused by ships and to marine pollution caused by old and gas installations. The Commission is proposing a multi-annual financial packet to be dispensed from the European Union budget for the period from 1 January 2014 to 31 December 2020 coinciding with the new multi-annual financial framework. This planned funding will not be agreed until the overall multi-annual financial framework is finalised.

The Commission proposes earmarking an amount of €160.5 million for the referenced period compared to €154 million for the previous period. Annual appropriations will then be determined by the budgetary authority within the limits of the financial framework. As this is coming from within the existing EU budget there are no additional financial burdens to the United Kingdom.

The United Kingdom supports the work of the European Maritime Safety Agency and recognises the contribution it makes to maritime safety.

Under any other business, the Commission will provide information on the aviation emissions trading scheme (ETS), on recent transport accidents, requirement of passenger data by the Russian Federation (PNR) and on the system for monitoring, reporting and verification (MRV) of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions from international maritime transport.